Mario Kart Mafia (NOC) END: VILLAGE WINS

[Shining_Latios]

In what ways was Jalmont being more useful and contributing more? Post examples.

Make up your fucking mind. Your first sentence is saying I shouldn't have defended myself but then you say to defend myself.

I never said the scum reads aren't useful. I said assuming scum teams early in the game was. Since you did bring up scumreads though, just because scumreads are useful for the town to work with, they are also useful for the mafia -- if anything, the mafia benefits more from scumreads.

Also, why did you ignore the statement I made about you not posting about everyone else. You tell me to be useful but look at you. You basically said in that post "oh hey I could post about everyone else but I don't want to so I won't". Yeah don't ever try tell me to be a good villager and help when you just did the opposite in that post so fuck off with that.

 

[JALMONT]

would you guys take me more seriously if i posted abrasively and swore in every other sentence

 

[Aura Guardian]

Perhaps I chose my words poorly. Defend yourself by making the charge against you obsolete.

 

[Aura Guardian]

As for the other, I misread what you said, but my refutation is still valid, though the reasons are slightly different. Mainly,

 

[Snaquaza]

1. Celever

I know his posts has been vague, I can’t give a conclusion as of yet though, as I know how noobish he can be, I think his post type will change when he tries to help mafia if he would do it.


2. Solar Vapor

Makes good posts, not really often posts, but if there is a post it is usually a good one, currently a townread of me.


3. Metal Sonic

Well, he tried to defend Acklow and he added because he got a compliment (not a good reason), also generally makes meh posts, either repeating or agreeing, so small scumread of me


4. Spiffy

He focuses mainly on Celever and less on other people, he gives reads on other people, but doesn’t focus too much on them, all I can say about this that not Spiffy and Celever are mafia at least, so possible scum atm, due the obsessive Celever hunting posts. (Although I do agree @Celever should answer those questions, so please answer those questions)


5. Houndoomsday

Saying the obvious, mostly gives reads of people of who he knows they won’t be wrong and accepted by people, for this, I give him a fair chance of being scum.


6. Jalmont

Does a bit idle lately, his only posts are short and non-saying, his last decent post was 3 pages ago, but even that one was just a defending one, I thought I had a bit better view on him, but after I looked a bit back, I think this is quite scummy, even though if I remember it well, made better posts at the start, but this might be as the start doesn’t say much.


7. Woodchuck

Not much comments, didn’t post too much but tries to prevent people of doing dumb things, so I think atm he is a villager


8. Acklow

BtB did not do a good job, but I am willing to give Acklow a chance to proof BtB was just a noob. Has been active till now and decent posts, but this could be to make up for the very bad play of BtB as he can’t allow any misplay


9. Aura Guardian

Well, I know how he would play as mafia, as the last mafia game I was in, I was mafia with him, at least back then, he acted to people like he thought they were suspicious, but not enough for a vote, the only person to who he does this is Jalmont really, so if Jalmont is mafia he might be too, on other notes I don’t have too much to say about him.


10. Empoof < is this subbed out or can someone say to me where he has posted


12. cxinlee

Did not make the longest posts, but they say just enough for me to be leaning town.


Btw, UNVOTE ACKLOW, to give him a chance on defending

I hope I did a bit of it right here >_<

 

[cxinlee]

@Snaquaza thank you for the scumread. You've proven me wrong that you're not contributing to the town with useless summaries and stuff. I will unvote.

 

[Acklow]

Ok, you know what, I think I am just going to Vote Celever.

You and Houndoomsday role-fished really really hard after BtB requested to sub out. Why were you guys so desperate to know what his role is. In fact why would anyone be so desperate if someone claimed they are PR. BtB didn't claim PR at all and yet after assuming he was, you begin role fishing and LYNCHING THE DUDE right off the bat.

Here's my thoughts:

Houndoomsday and Celever are butt-buddies. There's a high chance there's a connection of some sort between the two of them.

barty just tell us your role before you sub out for gods sake

@barty the beetle you are still viewing the thread TELL US YOUR FUCKING ROLE NOW.
This day has been barty barty barty barty barty. You claimed a power role, you said you were a vanillager who will later become a power role and now "If anyone wants to take over a vanilla villager" if you are saying that you are just a vanillager permanently and you claimed a power role to try and be alive longer just SAY THAT, AND PUT US OUT OF OUR MISERY.

Most of these posts were immediately followed up by the other. Why were you so intent on role fishing to the point that you'd lynch him? I mean sure "We want to know your role and by lynching you we're providing pressure" makes sense but honestly that is a scummy reason just to want to know someone's role. Now I've already established I am vanilla (in other words BtB was vanilla) and I also pointed out he didn't remotely say ANYTHING that makes him PR, but consider this:
If he was PR, let's say he was, oh I don't know, Bodyguard. Right? Why would he want to say that explicitly? Or let's say he was Inspector? There hasn't even been a N0 to work off iirc, so there'd be no way that he/I would be able to actually provide a solid clean. Well sure I could risk it by doing so, but that would mean the BG would be forced to risk protecting a lateclaim PR. Early game vig claim or Hook claim could make sense, but even then that still doesn't warrant you role-fishing so hard.

I'm sorry but I just can't help but think you really did have an ulterior motive for knowing what his role is, regardless of whether or not you are scum. Celever explain your role-fishing. You too Houndoomsday. I already said that "pressure" voting is not an excuse. Please explain, if it was indeed pressure voting, why you thought it would be a bright idea to force a claim from a "potential power role" on Day 1.

 

[Acklow]

Basically he is saying he is useless until later in the game. He also says he doesn't know how to act under pressure, but if you don't say anything why would we not lynch you? Say something and it might clean yourself, otherwise we could lose an important role. And besides, just tell us what your role is, if it is a good role and if we have a safeguard he will probably protect you from a night kill.

ah ok, i thought he was saying that he was just a vanillager and got really confused because he had claimed PR.

agreeing with celever though, you need to post what your role does asap. im not going to repeat why you are scummy but yeah you are easily the scummiest in my eyes

get talking barty

i want a full role claim, as well as an explanation for your noob play, and vague power role claim d1, (even if you are village it screams mafia kill me!)

probably will post some other scum reads in a day or so because i think we are def starting to tunnel

I'm honestly not sure if barty has this thread watched, so i'm just going to tag @barty the beetle here.
Talk. You are of a similar time zone to me so I have no idea why you are not talking today. It's been almost 9 hours since your last post, and while this day has pretty much had 4 people talking in it you are at L-1.This means that another vote on you will kill you and we will lose a power role, or so you claim.

Here's some more posts for reference.

 

[Acklow]

Also @Metal Sonic, please kindly remove your vote off of me. Thanks!!

 

[Houndoomsday]

I'm going to answer specific questions in bold in the quote and then explain my overall reasoning below.

Most of these posts were immediately followed up by the other. Why were you so intent on role fishing to the point that you'd lynch him? again L-1 is not even close to lynching him. at no point did i ever say i wanted to lynch him I mean sure "We want to know your role and by lynching you we're providing pressure" makes sense but honestly that is a scummy reason just to want to know someone's role. Now I've already established I am vanilla (in other words BtB was vanilla) and I also pointed out he didn't remotely say ANYTHING that makes him PR, but consider this:
If he was PR, let's say he was, oh I don't know, Bodyguard. Right? Why would he want to say that explicitly? this is the only role that actually makes sense for him not to claim, and that is the one error in my logic Or let's say he was Inspector? get bg protection, i would hope bg would be smart enough to realize even if his claim as inspector might be scum inspector is too important to the village to need 100% village certainty to protect There hasn't even been a N0 to work off iirc, so there'd be no way that he/I would be able to actually provide a solid clean. Well sure I could risk it by doing so, but that would mean the BG would be forced to risk protecting a lateclaim PR. Early game vig claim or Hook claim could make sense, but even then that still doesn't warrant you role-fishing so hard. again just get bg support if you are village

I'm sorry but I just can't help but think you really did have an ulterior motive for knowing what his role is, regardless of whether or not you are scum. Celever explain your role-fishing. You too Houndoomsday. I already said that "pressure" voting is not an excuse. Please explain, if it was indeed pressure voting, why you thought it would be a bright idea to force a claim from a "potential power role" on Day 1.

Just saying, I don't see how me asking barty to elaborate is not a good idea, especially when he vaguely claims power role already. Alright lets consider 2 scenarios

Barty is village with PR

The mafia knows Barty is not mafia. Therefore, Barty is a prime target for mafia, because they don't have any ideas of other village PRs, so therefore it makes the most sense to kill him. Even if he doesn't reveal exactly what his role is, he is almost guaranteed to be targeted, and killed. This again is because at the moment of him claiming power role, he shoots up to the mafia's first target. The only way he survives the night is the bodyguard a) believing him, which at the time was not reliable at all and b) deciding to protect him, again, he will need to find a way to alleviate suspicion in order to convince our hypothetical bodyguard to protect. How useful then, that he tell us about his role and help us decide that he is village! Basically, if there is no bg and/or the bg doesn't protect it doesn't hurt him to claim because he dies anyways! If there is a bg a claim will go a long way in protecting himself and denying the mafia a essential kill!

Barty is mafia

Forcing mafia to talk more only helps the village, as there is a greater chance of error with every sentence. By claiming "if you lynch me the village will regret", he manages to avoid lynching from the village without the risk of a counterclaim. If he is mafia it only helps the village by forcing him to claim and if you can't understand that reasoning you really need to leave this game.


Basically, unless I'm making huge logical (noob) errors, I fail to see how pressuring barty is not a good idea, village or scum. honestly i think this is a case of OMGUS, which is pretty understandable and an easy way to divert attention...


Also if you think if me and Celever were mafia because we were posting near each other this must be the shittiest mafia out there. no mafia would post so obviously allied. and if you look through my previous posts you will see im not exactly buddying celever, ive said he is scummy several times beforehand. in addition ms was also very critical of barty, the fact that you completely exclude him while criticizing me and celever is very scummy, as one poster put it he was "bullying celever" to put barty at l-1. why not even give him a mention? that speaks out to me and i mean ms had multiple posts calling out barty as well- its not like you missed one post he made or something, i count at least a couple

 

[Acklow]

Thank you for your response. Now to see what Celever has to say.

As for Metal Sonic, I actually would have included some his content in my post but I was sorta itching to play Tales of Xillia which I just picked up today. I agree with you that he did have bad posts. If you wish, I can analyze them for you, but I honestly think there's no reason to if we can both agree that MS did do the things he did.

I contend that you posted in tandem, but I also did note that you were critical of the logic that Celever portrayed. This could mean two things:

You are village and everything that you posted in conjunction with Celever is entirely coincidential.

You are scum and you were just trying to distance yourself from a potential D1 lynch target in Celever.

Either is likely, but the former more so than the latter. I just wanted to see your response since it was so blatantly easy to see how you and Celever role-fished BtB together. MS didn't portray that nearly as much but he did vote BtB and I am not entirely sure why when he himself said that he thought BtB was vanilla with an item.

 

[Celever]

Short post, just woken up :s.

@Acklow Basically my reasoning for wanting to know Barty's role is none of your business (right now at least) and will become apparent over time. I also have to say that even I am not nooby enough to blatantly buddy with Houndoomsday like you gave evidence for, I don't even think Barty would be that dumb.
Spiffy thank you for reiterating your questions I will check back later to see if I did answer them and you missed it or if I missed those questions. (excuse: breakfast)

 

[Spiffy]

Eh @Acklow many players (myself included) thought barty the beetle alluded to being a power role when he said "if you lynch me you'll regret it", and when everyone wanted him to clarify which power role he was he never denied being one and pretty much chose to ignore it. On top of that, when he finally addressed the issue he said something along the lines of "I'm vanilla for now" which everyone obviously assumed that he got powers later in the game or something. I can understand why some players wanted to know his role because he was being so vague without actually giving a straight answer.

I think @Celever has enough pressure for now so I will unvote Celever. If he doesn't answer my questions my vote will go right back to him.

On top of not posting for awhile, @Metal Sonic has admitted to voting for someone he thinks is vanilla town, which is either stupid or a scum slip. I am leaning more towards the latter. He also has done nothing the entire game, and like Celever until I voted for him, Metal Sonic hasn't gotten challenged or pressured by anyone (until now) and an explanation for his behavior is warranted. And his stepping down from #1 scumhunter is bullshit js. Metal Sonic, give me reads of all of the recent sub-ins as well as Blackhawk11, Jalmont, and myself.

Vote Metal Sonic

In other news, I thought Houndoomsday's response to Acklow was good, however the last paragraph has a lot of WIFOM ("if I was mafia with Celever, why would I do this?").

@Jalmont now that Snaquaza has posted his reads what do you think of him?

@cxinlee even mafia can "contribute to the town", so that isn't a valid reason to remove your vote from someone. And please continue your list of reads, (I only saw you read two players).

 

[Acklow]

@Celever, when can we expect a response. You keep dragging it out and it has already been 7 hours since your last post.

 

[cxinlee]

Right now the rest of the people look really normal to me, I can't tell their roles. i'll try to check their posts again for anything scummy. Also yeah @Spiffy, good point, snaquaza is still on my fos, but Im investigating metal sonic now, his #1 scumhunter post sounds kinda fishy to me ( unless he is trolling).

 

[Snaquaza]

@cxinlee what did you think of my scumreads then?

 

[Celever]

@Celever, when can we expect a response. You keep dragging it out and it has already been 7 hours since your last post.

Probably later today but I can't promise anything, I can't rn (excuse: dinner)

 

[Blackhawk11]

Celever is suspicious as heck man.

@Snaquaza I subbed in for Empoof.

Acklow has only further convinced me that he/btb is indeed a vanilla villager.

A pair of reads on some players who have gone under the radar (a little bit):

Woodchuck: Makes a few tame reads, the first to point out that btb may have made a PR claim, votes for btb. His reads seem fair, nothing too radical about them. I honestly think that thinking btb soft-claimed PR was warranted at that time. Then voting for btb seems strange, but I don't think he had any plans of actually lynching btb, only applying pressure.
He later begins to show some suspicion of celever (he isn't the first to point this out though), but doesn't vote until several posts later. He was probably stuck on the pressure btb train though. Due to often posting his reads, I'm going to say Slight Village. If he did a bit less summarizing and replaced it with a bit more of his opinions I would increase my confidence.

Solar Vapor: points a few things out, favors calling people out over posting reads, but reads come from reactions, and it seems like that's what he's trying to create with almost every post, with very little fluff/filler. So I'm going to say Moderate Village

I want to hear more from Jalmont: What is your opinion/read of (Woodchuck or Solar Vapor) and Aura Guardian. (Note I want two of these three reads, and one should be AG)

 

[Spiffy]

@Celever I see you there is no escape now!!

 

[Celever]

@Celever I see you there is no escape now!!

lol actually you interrupted me whilst I was getting the questions up. Now obviously you're all going to expect some amazing answers from questions that I missed and Spiffy, instead of reiterating them for me would just say "answer my questions" when I thought I had so don't expect anything amazing. I jut want to get them out of the way finally. x.x

 

[Celever]

fat Spiffy said:
What does this have to with anything?
Click to expand...
fat Spiffy said:
Would you rather I allow my biggest scumread to CONTINUE being ignored by everyone? Just like you asked me to give reads on players I haven't said much on, I asked them to give a read about a player who they haven't said much on. Are you scared of other players sharing their opinion about you?
Click to expand...
fat Spiffy said:
I asked you to give postular evidence, meaning: Identify the post that you find scummy and tell me why you think it is scummy. I am looking for an explanation but I cannot find it, so point it out to me.
Click to expand...
fat Spiffy said:

What is your explanation for stating something that is incorrect, then?
Click to expand...​

So that's five questions there, and one more from another post...
fat Spiffy said:

First of all, I don't get what you mean when you say my reads were "shallow". If you're expecting post by post analysis, I don't have the patience to do it and analyzing each post individually doesn't accomplish anything. Hence, I summarized my view on each player.​

O_K.

First of all I can't even understand your first question. "What does that have to do with anything?" It has to do with your question that you asked....

I asked you why you were just telling people to give reads on me and only me because I am the only person you are interested in. It's actually kinda clever because it looks like you are contributing to hunting down scum when realistically you are tunneling one person in the whole game so far (and it's been like a week since this started or something) when very realistically I could end up NOT as scum. Sure, I'm your main scum read, but having about 3 pages of one-liners and defense of yourself is not helping the village do anything other than see someone (me) in a bad light, and I have already explained why I would look bad in previous posts.

I have said I accused you of thigns you may not have done and that was scumminess in posts. What I meant by that was at a quick scan I can't explain my logic as to why i found your posts odd and I don't have time to do any more than that until i get back from holiday, but you saw neither so that's just annoying :P.

Spiffy did you quote the right things? Those quotes are fact ffs.

By the reads are shallow I meant you explained one aspect of them, it looked as if you wanted to get those out of the way so you can get back to not contributing much to the village and targeting the noob. Seriously those reads were actually pretty much just repeating things. Actually yeah that aswers your third question. Your posts don't contribute to the village but they look at though they do. You either repeat stuff, point out flawed logic like it is obvious (if it is obvious why do you need to point it out?) and the stuff that is neither of the previous two things isn't actually very helpful. I have also noticed a slight bond between you and Houndoomsday.

So therre you go, long-awaited answers to some questions that I didn't know existed but that still started a bandwagon on me....

 

[Spiffy]

I asked you why you were just telling people to give reads on me and only me because I am the only person you are interested in. It's actually kinda clever because it looks like you are contributing to hunting down scum when realistically you are tunneling one person in the whole game so far (and it's been like a week since this started or something) when very realistically I could end up NOT as scum.

Like I said, I asked people to give reads on you because you were being largely ignored, and luckily I did this because several others noticed your scummy behavior. This is something I consider "helping the village". And just because I made a lot of short posts just highlighting you doesn't mean you were the only person I was interested in. I didn't avoid addressing other issues. If you find something in which I didn't share my opinion on that you think is important, let me know and I will gladly do so.

By the reads are shallow I meant you explained one aspect of them, it looked as if you wanted to get those out of the way so you can get back to not contributing much to the village and targeting the noob. Seriously those reads were actually pretty much just repeating things.

What exactly was repeated? If you expect me to refute this you have to give me an example, because those reads seem fine to me.

Actually yeah that aswers your third question. Your posts don't contribute to the village but they look at though they do. You either repeat stuff

Once again, your point would be worth a lot more weight if you actually provided postular evidence (hey there's that phrase again!) as in, cite a post where this is the case and I will clear things up for you.

point out flawed logic like it is obvious (if it is obvious why do you need to point it out?)

Cite a post. Although I'm going to point out flawed logic so I don't know why this is a problem.

and the stuff that is neither of the previous two things isn't actually very helpful.

Like when? Cite a post. And what kind of "stuff"?

I have also noticed a slight bond between you and Houndoomsday.

"Ok". If you're talking about where I said I liked his response to Acklow, I said this because I was being accused of tunnelling you and wanted to be more expansive in the things I address in my posts. But I wouldn't know if this is what you're talking about because you didn't QUOTE THE POSTS that make you feel this way! :)

 

[Celever]

Sigh......................................................

piffy: fairly neutral/slight town postings, everyone seems to be riding his dick for whatever reason because he really hasnt posted much meat, another potential vote but w/e,

You mentioned Houndoomsday twice to give reads on me.

One good thing I've noticed about @Houndoomsday is that he actually responds to things that aren't usually directed at him, such as lynch-gate early on in the day. This is not a common trait among the newer NOC players, and is townie points in my book. Other than that he doesn't really call anyone out, but everyone has their own playstyle so that is a moot point. There is nothing about him that has made me question him, so right now I am leaning town.

^This is also an example of only commenting on one thing in your reads.

this is all for now, spending some time with my Grandma and then going to bed, goodnight

 

[Woodchuck]

I never said the scum reads aren't useful. I said assuming scum teams early in the game was. Since you did bring up scumreads though, just because scumreads are useful for the town to work with, they are also useful for the mafia -- if anything, the mafia benefits more from scumreads.

I'm curious about this. What makes you think scumreads is more beneficial to the mafia than the village? The mafia already know who is mafia and who is village. Scumreads are a way the village can shrink this disparity in information. Yes, scumreads are also a way for scum to confuse players and cause mislynches, but without scumreads the only tool we would have to find scum would be inspects--unless you're suggesting a mass role claim?

1. Celever

I know his posts has been vague, I can’t give a conclusion as of yet though, as I know how noobish he can be, I think his post type will change when he tries to help mafia if he would do it.

Are you buddies with Celever? I don't even mean buddying in this game, I mean looking from VM exchanges it seems like you're friends or something. His posts aren't just vague, he's posting many short posts that seem to simply avoid giving substantive answers (esp. to Spiffy's questions) and immediately turn to attacking Spiffy. Another thing Celever said also interests me:

Short post, just woken up :s.

@Acklow Basically my reasoning for wanting to know Barty's role is none of your business (right now at least) and will become apparent over time. I also have to say that even I am not nooby enough to blatantly buddy with Houndoomsday like you gave evidence for, I don't even think Barty would be that dumb.
Spiffy thank you for reiterating your questions I will check back later to see if I did answer them and you missed it or if I missed those questions. (excuse: breakfast)

"None of your business"? What is this even supposed to mean? If Celever is a villager and thinks that not giving a reason is more beneficial to the town, then why bring this up at all? Maybe it's a noob move, but Celever says in literally the same paragraph that even he is not "nooby enough" to buddy with houndoomsday (which is pretty much parroting what houndoomsday said, coincidentally). It cuts both ways. I don't really think Celever and houndoomsday were buddying, though--it's likely they had different reasons for wanting a claim. Houndoomsday has already stated his logic, and it's reasonably sound assuming barty isn't bodyguard. Celever, i guess, has his own cryptic reasons.

4. Spiffy

He focuses mainly on Celever and less on other people, he gives reads on other people, but doesn’t focus too much on them, all I can say about this that not Spiffy and Celever are mafia at least, so possible scum atm, due the obsessive Celever hunting posts. (Although I do agree @Celever should answer those questions, so please answer those questions)

I think you're being pretty quick to jump to Celever's defense, but I agree that working on some other people would be nice.

I'm sorry that I'm not posting more substance, but I'm out of town and haven't had consistent access to the internet.

 

[Snaquaza]

no, Woodchuck, I am not trying to buddy with Celever and I will give better explenation later (as I was already planning) , but currently from what I remember I can say that he can be quite a noob at some posts although I do agree some posts were suspicious, I'll look later if I find any special posts as I was kinda hurrying when I made that list :/
Currently I plan on giving a better explenation later on everyone I thought had be a good chance to be scum + Celever and see if it becomes worse or less