Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

[IcyMan28]

Yeah, it's HP makes up for its defense somewhat. It won't be taking brutal physical hits anytime soon but it does help cushion those blows while Sylveon rocks its stellar SpD. Keep in mind that Vaporeon doesn't have the highest defense or speed either, and it is a great general tank.

bobbyvaporeon There is nothing that would indicate that. Sylveon is clearly furred as well.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

and? Reshiram and Zekrom have something like that. I don't see how Multiscale under a different name for Sylveon would be so absurd.

This brings us to the climax of the problem:

Zekrom and reshirem are the yin-yang, and not just legendary pokemon, but cover legendaries. If gf tailors an ability for one of them, it makes sense, but for an eeveelution it is quite absurd. Never once has any of the ___eons had a custom ability, they have made do with what has been available at the time.

 

[IcyMan28]

But then you have a custom tailered ability for one pokemon, which I really, really, hate.

This doesn't seem like such a big deal. Aside from the starters and legendaries, there have been a few instances where pokemon have unique abilities.

Prior to Gen 4, Tyranitar's Sandstream was unique. Milotic's Marvel Scale remains its calling card, even though both Dratini and Dragonair get it as a hidden ability (which means, not through normal gameplay). Cherrim has Flower Gift, the Psyduck line has had Cloud Nine exclusively for 2 generations, Mummy was designed exclusively for the Yamask line, and the Mime Jr. line retain sole possession of Filter. I really don't see why Sylveon getting a tailored ability would be too bad (Espeon already gets the relatively exclusive Magic Bounce).

But it's a moot point for now. Sylveon is confirmed to have Cute Charm and we don't know how, if at all, hidden abilities will be incorporated into these games.

 

[Spinda]

Seriously.. Cute Charm? And I thought Leafeon's ability was lame..
All Eeveelutions until now had atleast useful abilities ;_;

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

Doesn't mean that they won't have DW abilities in that battle (Politoed had Drizzle, so there.)

 

[Gary]

I hope to god they will eventually release Dream World abilities during 6th gen that have yet to be released, like Sheer Force Gator, Contrary Superior, and Shadow Tag Chandelure. It would be such a damn waste if these are NEVER released. I've been wanting to try out Contrary Serp since its DW ability was announced.

 

[Shurtugal]

I think Sheer Force Gators been released; its just not as good as torrent.

Also agree with Serp :[

 

[Yuttt]

Sheer Force, unlike Torrent, doesn't boost Aqua Jet. Although, you could use a life orb, as you aren't required to get down to torrent range anymore. However, Feraligatr's main niche is a SD Torrent Boosted Aqua jet in the rain, which Sheer Force doesn't help that much. If only technician...

 

[Halcyon.]

Sheer Force Life Orb Waterfall hits harder than you all are giving it credit for.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 251-296 (83.38 - 98.33%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W in rain: 295-347 (98.66 - 116.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn in rain: 216-255 (61.36 - 72.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi in rain: 312-368 (77.22 - 91.08%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's pretty huge if you ask me. Especially since you get to take advantage of Feraligatr's decent bulk with Sheer Force (you don't have to try to get into Torrent range to hit hard).

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Sheer force has not been released, but when it does, gator can make use of dragon dance to outspeed its foes and truly take advantage of waterfall. Swords dance is better off with torrent imo.

 

[IcyMan28]

Also keep in mind that we technically aren't even supposed to know what the Hidden Abilities are for pokemon that haven't been released yet. We only know from hacking the games.

Anyway, the new trailer features Marill using a move called Child's Play/Playing Around/Frolic (no official translation) on Haxorus. Assuming Huge Power, neutral natures for both pokemon, and equal IVs for both, it would have to be a 120 power physical Fairy attack to have done the amount of damage it did. What do you guys think? This is a big deal for Azumarill, who would now have a super strong STAB attack to use. It even allows it to forgo Waterfall for Aqua Jet!

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Holy crap. Azumarill gets a base 120 STAB move along with Waterfall, Aqua Jet, and possibly Return. It no longer needs Ice Punch to hit Dragon types, and this Fairy STAB allows it to easily beat Jellicent and other bulky Water types that would otherwise wall Azumarill. Hopefully with this huge boost Azumarill can finally see enough OU usage to be considered OU. It's been getting better every generation, and I think this is the final push it needs.

 

[Gary]

Holy crap. Azumarill gets a base 120 STAB move along with Waterfall, Aqua Jet, and possibly Return. It no longer needs Ice Punch to hit Dragon types, and this Fairy STAB allows it to easily beat Jellicent and other bulky Water types that would otherwise wall Azumarill. Hopefully with this huge boost Azumarill can finally see enough OU usage to be considered OU. It's been getting better every generation, and I think this is the final push it needs.

There's no way Azumarill WONT be OU next gen to be honest. It has everything going for it in 6th gen. It can take advantage of Drizzle, priority Aqua Jet, dual STAB, immune to Dragon-types, can now beat its counters, etc. It'll be great. I also have high hopes for Gardevoir too, because Fairy/Psychic is a fantastic defensive typing, and her stats are decent as well.

 

[Codraroll]

I wouldn't speculate on tier placements before all info is released. Azumarill, Gardevoir and their like might be good on their own, but we don't know how they will relate to the rest of the metagame. For all we know there is a move out there whose description is "Instantly KOs Azumarill". Likewise, other 'mons might do their job better, hard counter them, or there might be moves or field conditions rendering them irrelevant (like what Stealth Rock does to Moltres). Also, we don't know what "Child's Play" does. It might be stronger when used by unevolved Pokémon, work against the opponent's Attack stat, or have other modificators making it hugely effective on Haxorus if and only if used by Marill.

 

[Aerophoenix]

I'm trying to locate the picture, but to clear up confusion we actually just about know Sylveon's base stats. There was a picture of one from Pokemon Amie, and the graph that shows the Pokemon's base stats and their growth. It indicated it has something like 60/65/65/130/95/110 stats, nearly identical to Espeon's. I'm on my phone so I'm having difficulty locating the picture but I'll grab it when I can. This does make it more of a mystery how it survived that Hydro Pump, though.

 

[IcyMan28]

I'm trying to locate the picture, but to clear up confusion we actually just about know Sylveon's base stats. There was a picture of one from Pokemon Amie, and the graph that shows the Pokemon's base stats and their growth. It indicated it has something like 60/65/65/130/95/110 stats, nearly identical to Espeon's. I'm on my phone so I'm having difficulty locating the picture but I'll grab it when I can. This does make it more of a mystery how it survived that Hydro Pump, though.

No. The picture from Pokemon Amie/Super Training/Whatever shows that Sylveon's highest stats are SpD and SpA, in that order. And from its 106 HP at level 30, its HP is highly likely to be 95.

95 / 60 / 65 / 110 / 130 / 65 is almost unequivocally what it will be, and is quite dissimilar to Espeon. If anything, its a more specially defensive Vaporeon.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

No. The picture from Pokemon Amie/Super Training/Whatever shows that Sylveon's highest stats are SpD and SpA, in that order. And from its 106 HP at level 30, its HP is highly likely to be 95.

95 / 60 / 65 / 110 / 130 / 65 is almost unequivocally what it will be, and is quite dissimilar to Espeon. If anything, its a more specially defensive Vaporeon.

That is what I was going to say as well, just forgot how to word it correctl lol.

 

[IcyMan28]

Haha, no worries there. And if you think about it, I couldn't come up with a better spread for Sylveon (maybe swap the Defense and SpD, idk). It's bulky enough to take some hits and is still strong enough to strike back. We've all seen how useful Vaporeon has been over the years. Take for example the following set:

Sylveon@Leftovers
Bold; 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD

Wish
Protect
Moon Blast
Filler / Coverage

Now it's too early to speculate on Sylveon's movepool and whatnot but we know for sure it has access to these two moves and have very strong evidence for the above spread being the correct one in terms of base stats. This EV spread would leave sylveon with 394 HP / 140 Atk / 237 Def / 256 SpA / 300 SpD / 166 Spe. To give an idea of its bulk:

252 LO Latios' Psyshock vs. 252/240+ Sylveon: (42.89% - 50.51%)
252 LO Thundurus-T's Thunderbolt vs. 252/16 Sylveon: (43.65% - 51.78%)
252 LO Alakazam's Psychic vs. 252 / 16 Sylveon: (39.09% - 46.45%)
252 Scarf Terrakion's Stone Edge: (41.37% - 48.98%)
252+ CB Dragonite's Rain Waterfall vs. 252 / 240 Sylveon: (55.58% - 65.48%)

As we see here, Sylveon is decently capable of handling Alakazam, Latios, and possibly even Thundurus-T in a pinch on the special side. Physically, it doesn't have stellar bulk but can stand up to CB Dragonite's best attack against it, for example, and has comparable physical bulk to specially defensive Celebi. If you wanted to, you could always just relegate Sylveon to SpD, where it does weird shit like avoiding the 2HKO from Thundurus-T's LO Thunder over 75% of the time, assuming Max/Max.

It's offensively no slouch, either. Assuming 95 BP for Moonblast, it can occasionally OHKO Latios after a round of LO and SR, which is decent. You could probably get away with running Max HP / Max SpA if you wanted to run offensive Sylveon but that's probably better left to others.

Again, Gen 6 will obviously be different, but odds are these pokemon will remain in OU/viable, so it's good to have an idea of what it would take to stand up to them.

 

[lordkira]

Either way, it probably won't. Besides, Garchomp is good enough without a Speed boosting move, and it can always run a Sub-Salac set that no one ever seems to see coming.

I have used sub salac garchomp and I've always said how its been recently the best garchomp

Also, garchomp is more than good enough without dd or agility ATM but we don't k wow what kind of power creep gen 6 will bring us

Garchomps speed is already not something that is Too impressive

 

[GCSChris]

I hope to god they will eventually release Dream World abilities during 6th gen that have yet to be released, like Sheer Force Gator, Contrary Superior, and Shadow Tag Chandelure. It would be such a damn waste if these are NEVER released. I've been wanting to try out Contrary Serp since its DW ability was announced.

lol there is finally a thread for that now. Seems to me that they realized they would be too good (at least chandy, idk about serperior)

Also I've missed some discussion again because I haven't been getting any alerts from this thread for some reason. :[

Updated OP with some info about Furfrou (that amazing name tho). Hopefully some new info will be coming soon.

 

[Aerophoenix]

No. The picture from Pokemon Amie/Super Training/Whatever shows that Sylveon's highest stats are SpD and SpA, in that order. And from its 106 HP at level 30, its HP is highly likely to be 95.

95 / 60 / 65 / 110 / 130 / 65 is almost unequivocally what it will be, and is quite dissimilar to Espeon. If anything, its a more specially defensive Vaporeon.

I suppose I misunderstood the picture; I guess the interior dark green is supposed to be its Base Stats then? If so, then it seems like they could have used a better initial scale for the the interior dark green is hard to yell "size" differences on, though I guess it looks like for that part the SpA and SpD are slightly longer? Then that does look right, I suppose, though sadly Espeon-esque stars might be more useful than an offensive special tank with few resistances. It'll be a good bulky attacker with nearly unresisted coverage, but 60-65 Speed sucks.

 

[Gary]

I suppose I misunderstood the picture; I guess the interior dark green is supposed to be its Base Stats then? If so, then it seems like they could have used a better initial scale for the the interior dark green is hard to yell "size" differences on, though I guess it looks like for that part the SpA and SpD are slightly longer? Then that does look right, I suppose, though sadly Espeon-esque stars might be more useful than an offensive special tank with few resistances. It'll be a good bulky attacker with nearly unresisted coverage, but 60-65 Speed sucks.

Yeah having low speed sucks, but Fairy is going to be a fantastic defensive typing, so it's still going to be a useful defensive Pokemon, especially with the Eeveelutions having such a fantastic support movepool. It's basically an offensive Umbreon with shit physical bulk, so that's kind of cool. It might not be THAT amazing in OU because having low physical bulk can be a problem, but it sounds like it would be a great counter to the Lati twins and could potentially be a good edition to stall teams. That Dragon immunity is HUGE.

 

[Schpoonman]

I wouldn't be so fast to say that Sylveon is going to shut down Lati@s. Psyshock hits neutrally and Specs Latios is a clean 2HKO against anything but 252/252+ Sylveon.

 

[Gary]

I wouldn't be so fast to say that Sylveon is going to shut down Lati@s. Psyshock hits neutrally and Specs Latios is a clean 2HKO against anything but 252/252+ Sylveon.

It would pair VERY well with Tyranitar or any other Pursuit trapper. The mind games that the combination would create would be quite stressful for the opponent, especially if people are still using Choice Latios in Gen VI.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I suppose I misunderstood the picture; I guess the interior dark green is supposed to be its Base Stats then? If so, then it seems like they could have used a better initial scale for the the interior dark green is hard to yell "size" differences on, though I guess it looks like for that part the SpA and SpD are slightly longer? Then that does look right, I suppose, though sadly Espeon-esque stars might be more useful than an offensive special tank with few resistances. It'll be a good bulky attacker with nearly unresisted coverage, but 60-65 Speed sucks.

Low speed on a wall or otherwise defensive Pokemon is by no means bad, it could be far worse. Sure, high speed is a benefit, but I'd much rather take low speed over low hit points any day of the week.