Also I can confirm that Stealth Rock has NOT been nerfed.
My Flinch-thing had 64/70 hp, after a switch in it became 29, which is -35
My Flinch-thing had 64/70 hp, after a switch in it became 29, which is -35
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)
- Thread starter GCSChris
- Start date
- Status
maybe knock off could be used more now
some random poke used knock off on my doublade and it lost like more than half hp. what the hell. could do more damage now if you have an item...
some random poke used knock off on my doublade and it lost like more than half hp. what the hell. could do more damage now if you have an item...
So, for the stats :
lvl 17, Timid nature
I used Bite on the opponnent who took damages 2 times, like a Double Chop. The second hit was a lot less effective though.
Non offensive moves seem to work only once.
Edit : Power up punch boosted the attack twice. That's interesting.
lvl 17, Timid nature
I used Bite on the opponnent who took damages 2 times, like a Double Chop. The second hit was a lot less effective though.
Non offensive moves seem to work only once.
Edit : Power up punch boosted the attack twice. That's interesting.
Last edited:
More importantly...why in the world does it have 5 moves?
Because it's learning Flare Blitz.
Keep in mind Whimsicott also learns Hurricane
Four moves + "Trying to learn Flare Blitz".
Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware of how the learning new moves is displayed/formated from Gen III onwards.
---
All of the new info coming in just implies that a huge amount of the threats from Gen V may even become non-viable in Gen VI, unlike what happened in IV to V with the top threats. I mean, where in the world does D-Nite stand in all of this? Landorus? Breloom?
Heatran will remain relevant, and T-Tar as well, especially with the Mega Evolution, but everything else looks just so uncertain. Which is amazing, imo.
One fact most people seem to be ignoring though is you can only Mega Evolve once per battle, which makes such a wide usage of Mega Evolution (and walls which use MegaEvolution) a problem.
---
All of the new info coming in just implies that a huge amount of the threats from Gen V may even become non-viable in Gen VI, unlike what happened in IV to V with the top threats. I mean, where in the world does D-Nite stand in all of this? Landorus? Breloom?
Heatran will remain relevant, and T-Tar as well, especially with the Mega Evolution, but everything else looks just so uncertain. Which is amazing, imo.
One fact most people seem to be ignoring though is you can only Mega Evolve once per battle, which makes such a wide usage of Mega Evolution (and walls which use MegaEvolution) a problem.
Jaiho
bandy legged troll
I can't see Mega-Kangaskhan being great if the second hit is weaker than the first. The only niche it has is a sub-breaker, which will be cool in lower tiers, but a sub-par STAB and the boatload of other Megas to compete for a team slot with, I doubt it will see the light of OU.
On a different topic....
GET HYPED!
On a different topic....
GET HYPED!
It's hard to tell exactly since the Kangashkan is only at level 17, but I'm getting about 105/125/100/60/100/100 for Mega Kangaskhan's base stats. This falls in line with the patterns of the other Mega forms, so I feel pretty good about this estimation.
the thing essentially has a technician boost on all of his attacks now
Have all the MegaEvos been confirmed or are there still more to come?
Kangaskhan is very good to me! 105/100/100 defenses(a little better than all100 stats legends) and 125 attack/100 speed....enough to hurt....
like said before, it basically has technician on ALL it's moves....but better, it's technician on moves of all BP, including a set like STAB return, earthquake, drain punch for recovery and sucker punch for priority =p and better yet, it attack 2 times so it can break subs and focus sash...good enough to me! if this thing was in gen V metagame, for sure it would be OU.
like said before, it basically has technician on ALL it's moves....but better, it's technician on moves of all BP, including a set like STAB return, earthquake, drain punch for recovery and sucker punch for priority =p and better yet, it attack 2 times so it can break subs and focus sash...good enough to me! if this thing was in gen V metagame, for sure it would be OU.
Stone RG
Megas are broke
Ive seen a lot of people saying that Gen VI will prolly be far less offensive than V, so i thought i might as well show an argument against this.
We should remember the fact that, even with ONE mega evolution per team, theyre still the absolute definition of a nuke, this is what brings to me to think that stall is dead in Gen VI OU, you HAVE to be prepared for each and everyone of the offensive Mega pokes. Each team having only one of them means that there a lot of possibilties. Even with the reduction of base power of several moves and nerfed weather, what will happen when stall players look at the fact that they WILL be up against a Mega-Lucario that easy 6-0s with a single free turn, a Mega-Medicham that kills something every time it switches in, a Mega Chomp that has a similar trait, plus the fact that it will be able to go mixed; a Mega Gengar that beats ANY single stall (until now) poke 1v1, Mega Gardevoir that has Deo-A level SpA, AND Psyshock, hell, who knows what Alakazam may bring?
I see no way of a stall team having success with so much potential of wallbreaking, you cant check ONE of them, youll have to do more than 30. I see no way of UU and below taking more than 2 suspect rounds with pokes on this scale, OU can be worked around, but im betting on an all out ban on Mega Stones from OU to PU happening.
We should remember the fact that, even with ONE mega evolution per team, theyre still the absolute definition of a nuke, this is what brings to me to think that stall is dead in Gen VI OU, you HAVE to be prepared for each and everyone of the offensive Mega pokes. Each team having only one of them means that there a lot of possibilties. Even with the reduction of base power of several moves and nerfed weather, what will happen when stall players look at the fact that they WILL be up against a Mega-Lucario that easy 6-0s with a single free turn, a Mega-Medicham that kills something every time it switches in, a Mega Chomp that has a similar trait, plus the fact that it will be able to go mixed; a Mega Gengar that beats ANY single stall (until now) poke 1v1, Mega Gardevoir that has Deo-A level SpA, AND Psyshock, hell, who knows what Alakazam may bring?
I see no way of a stall team having success with so much potential of wallbreaking, you cant check ONE of them, youll have to do more than 30. I see no way of UU and below taking more than 2 suspect rounds with pokes on this scale, OU can be worked around, but im betting on an all out ban on Mega Stones from OU to PU happening.
Well, considering Power Up Punch gave two attack boosts, it's safe to expect a lot from this thing. Double Bulldoze and double Body Slam both come to mind.
What's a Mega Kangashkan to a Goodra?
So Goodra has been predicted to have the following stats:
HP : 80-90
Atk : 90-100
Def : 75-85
SAtk : 115-120
SDef : 135-150
Spe : 90
Looking at his stats alone, it seems we have a rare Dragon-Type Pokemon in our hands : A Dragon Tank
Sure we've had things like Dragonite and Latias but Goodra does not mind Stealth Rock to the degree that Dragonite does and Goodra does not fear Pursuit trapping, allowing its tanking role to be played a little more liberally.
His weakest stats seem to exist in his Hit Points and Defense both under 90 at best. This might hurt Goodra a little bit but all is not lost folks!
Taking a look at Goodra's evolution line and screenshots displaying its moves we can see that Goodra has some affinity towards Water-Type Moves (Muddy Water), perhaps in reference to its slug + mucus + tissue theme design. Also don't forget it has Hydration as its ability further validating this little theory.
It's not a guarentee but the chances of Goodra learning Scald is definitely not out of the question.
If Goodra receivesone of Pokemon's most broken moves in existence Scald, it will definitely be seen as a staple on its Tank Sets.
Base 90-100 Attack and Base 115-120 Special Attack definitely give Goodra some respectable firepower to utilize. Even with the nerfed Dragon Pulse at no EVs or Special Attack Boosting nature, Goodra finds itself being able to solidly 2HKO threats such as Garchomp, Salamence, Latios, Latias and even Multiscale Dragonite if it switches in on Stealth Rock or if Goodra packs a little more firepower. And honestly who knows, Gen VI just might give us a more respectable Special Dragon Type Move to abuse.
Base 135 - 150 Special Defense is astronomical to say the least. Even in the worst case scenario, Goodra will stay naturally bulkier than Latias is. Its massive Special Defense is definitely a blessing no doubt about that.
Base 90 Speed is pretty fast for a tank in my honest opinion. Usually the tanks we've known have all been relatively slow. Like "just hitting or not even breaking Base 80 Speed" slow. Base 90 Speed might even allow it to outspeed Mega Garchomp who has been confirmed to lose Speed in exchange for a gain in Power.
Finally we have Goodra's abilities, Hydration and Sap Sipper. It's a little disheartening for Goodra that Politoed got hit with the weather-nerf truck but Hydration is still an amazingly viable ability. Just take Vaporeon, disfigure it's face, give it a better mono-typing and more power and bam. Hydration Goodra ready to wreck shop. Rain Dance Support is always still possible and honestly considering how weather only lasts 5-turns now without the usage of those weather rocks, Gen VI might bring back the good ol' OU Days of Weather Dance Support. Maybe GameFreak will show Goodra some love and give it access to Calm Mind | Rest | Dragon Pulse | Scald or Rain Dance. :D *fingers crossed*
Sap Sipper is great as it grants it an immunity to Grass-Type moves and Spore / Status Powders. That's huge. No sleep-mechanic is gonna shake up my little Goodra~
Anyways what do you guys think of Goodra in OU? He probably won't be hitting top 10 off the bat nor will he be an immediate offensive threat like my boy Mega Lucario. But Goodra definitely has potential and has some great things going for him :)
So Goodra has been predicted to have the following stats:
HP : 80-90
Atk : 90-100
Def : 75-85
SAtk : 115-120
SDef : 135-150
Spe : 90
Looking at his stats alone, it seems we have a rare Dragon-Type Pokemon in our hands : A Dragon Tank
Sure we've had things like Dragonite and Latias but Goodra does not mind Stealth Rock to the degree that Dragonite does and Goodra does not fear Pursuit trapping, allowing its tanking role to be played a little more liberally.
His weakest stats seem to exist in his Hit Points and Defense both under 90 at best. This might hurt Goodra a little bit but all is not lost folks!
Taking a look at Goodra's evolution line and screenshots displaying its moves we can see that Goodra has some affinity towards Water-Type Moves (Muddy Water), perhaps in reference to its slug + mucus + tissue theme design. Also don't forget it has Hydration as its ability further validating this little theory.
It's not a guarentee but the chances of Goodra learning Scald is definitely not out of the question.
If Goodra receives
Base 90-100 Attack and Base 115-120 Special Attack definitely give Goodra some respectable firepower to utilize. Even with the nerfed Dragon Pulse at no EVs or Special Attack Boosting nature, Goodra finds itself being able to solidly 2HKO threats such as Garchomp, Salamence, Latios, Latias and even Multiscale Dragonite if it switches in on Stealth Rock or if Goodra packs a little more firepower. And honestly who knows, Gen VI just might give us a more respectable Special Dragon Type Move to abuse.
Base 135 - 150 Special Defense is astronomical to say the least. Even in the worst case scenario, Goodra will stay naturally bulkier than Latias is. Its massive Special Defense is definitely a blessing no doubt about that.
Base 90 Speed is pretty fast for a tank in my honest opinion. Usually the tanks we've known have all been relatively slow. Like "just hitting or not even breaking Base 80 Speed" slow. Base 90 Speed might even allow it to outspeed Mega Garchomp who has been confirmed to lose Speed in exchange for a gain in Power.
Finally we have Goodra's abilities, Hydration and Sap Sipper. It's a little disheartening for Goodra that Politoed got hit with the weather-nerf truck but Hydration is still an amazingly viable ability. Just take Vaporeon, disfigure it's face, give it a better mono-typing and more power and bam. Hydration Goodra ready to wreck shop. Rain Dance Support is always still possible and honestly considering how weather only lasts 5-turns now without the usage of those weather rocks, Gen VI might bring back the good ol' OU Days of Weather Dance Support. Maybe GameFreak will show Goodra some love and give it access to Calm Mind | Rest | Dragon Pulse | Scald or Rain Dance. :D *fingers crossed*
Sap Sipper is great as it grants it an immunity to Grass-Type moves and Spore / Status Powders. That's huge. No sleep-mechanic is gonna shake up my little Goodra~
Anyways what do you guys think of Goodra in OU? He probably won't be hitting top 10 off the bat nor will he be an immediate offensive threat like my boy Mega Lucario. But Goodra definitely has potential and has some great things going for him :)
It hasn't (as far as 5th gen pool is concerned) got anything substantial to hit Ghost types though. STAB/Earthquake/Drain Punch/...Sucker Punch? Outrage? Bite? Physically defensive Celebi and maybe even Landorus-T could marginalize this movepool, while Sub Gengar would be immune to damage if played right.
double stomp for flinch hax lol double crush claw to lower defense forcing a switch, double dizzy punch for confusion.....so many tools to work, and with 125 attack, stab in ALL of them excep bulldoze ,half more power from ability AND double chance of effect.....it's starting to be good enough to lose it's fun
I hope this guy become UU...i will have LOTS of fun with it there
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Well, I think when most people say XY are less offensive than BW, they're simply comparing the stats of the new Pokemon from both generations and thinking about the small BP drops. You're right in that, with just 1 Mega per team, there is a huge offensive bonus. No chance for stall to be effective when we've already seen things like Megacham and Gengar who will break anything. Predicting that all Megastones will be banned... I can certainly see that happening, but at the same time that would remove what looks to be a new core gameplay element. It will be interesting to see how things go as we enter this new generation.
By far Megakhan's biggest perk is that Power-Up punch is decent damage, plus a free Swords Dance. All of those similar moves are going to be incredible on it!
Well, I somewhat agree with Stone RG here. Can't say that stall is totally dead, but Mega Evo makes battle even more match-up reliant than it already is. If one team doesn't have any counter to your opponent Mega, you instantly lose the match.
It's like having 5 OU + 1 Uber clause, only worse.
It's like having 5 OU + 1 Uber clause, only worse.
Everything has it's counters...that's why we use 6 pokemons...of couse normal pokemons have a little trouble with ghost, and a physical attacker has problems with heavy defensive ones....that doesn't mean it won't be good ....i don't know if it will be OU...but it will be good, equal or better at hax than jirachi at least
I'm sorry, I'm not seeing HO or even offense is benefiting from Gen 6 at all outside from MEvos.
Let's recount the fact, shall we?
1. Weather Nerf, which means a heavy hit against weather teams
2. BP reductions to all staple offensive moves, even HP got the nerf, now suddenly things like Keldeo aren't looking so hot right now.
3) Fairy type just killed an entire playstyle by merely existing
4) Fantastic defensive pokemon now available, alongside new MEvos as well
5) Thunder is no longer accurate under rain, and similar issues
6) Ghosts getting buffed, SR staying the same, rapid spinners aren't getting any better, spinning hazards is gonna be hella of a task atm
I think the metagame will settle around bulky offense or semi-stall for the majority of players, but defensive teams definitely had their prayers answered this gen.
Edit: In fact, from the way thing are looking, stall can go back to the basic strategy of switch between two walls ftw.
Let's recount the fact, shall we?
1. Weather Nerf, which means a heavy hit against weather teams
2. BP reductions to all staple offensive moves, even HP got the nerf, now suddenly things like Keldeo aren't looking so hot right now.
3) Fairy type just killed an entire playstyle by merely existing
4) Fantastic defensive pokemon now available, alongside new MEvos as well
5) Thunder is no longer accurate under rain, and similar issues
6) Ghosts getting buffed, SR staying the same, rapid spinners aren't getting any better, spinning hazards is gonna be hella of a task atm
I think the metagame will settle around bulky offense or semi-stall for the majority of players, but defensive teams definitely had their prayers answered this gen.
Edit: In fact, from the way thing are looking, stall can go back to the basic strategy of switch between two walls ftw.
Completely agree ^_^
Maybe it's the most balanced metagame we will have till the start of the game.... GameFreak nerfed high power moves....nerfed critical hits....balanced the type chart....nerfed weather...and introduced many defensive pokemons. But we had a VERY offensive metagame, and who hitted hard before is still hitting hard...so i think it's balanced....heavy offense still viable...very defensive teams much more viable now....and balanced teams almost perfect now(i think this is what gamefreak desires..to balanced teams to be better)
The only thing to take balance out is mega pokemon! but both teams get one..and it's ONLY one, so it introduces a lot more strategic play...to WHAT mega to use...and WHEN(if you use to soon to sweep, you can get countered and loose to opposing mega, if you use too late maybe the opponent has already pulled an good strategy that you can't win anymore)
GameFreak did almost a perfect work in my opinion
Edit: megas also can turn the tides of a battle....adding a LOT more EMOTION...you can be almost loosing with only 2 pokes...get your mega, a lucky crit and maybe beat 4 pokemons in a row winning the match
I LOL'd at fact #3 (:
But it's so true.
Gen VI is seriously introducing what we've all wanted. Balance. You can choose to go offensive or defensive and there will most certaintly be an appropriate Pokemon(s) waiting for you whether it be a MegaLucario or a Goodra.
However we're still speculating here so let's not make too many assumptions on how Gen VI's metagame will evolve to become.
But it's so true.
Gen VI is seriously introducing what we've all wanted. Balance. You can choose to go offensive or defensive and there will most certaintly be an appropriate Pokemon(s) waiting for you whether it be a MegaLucario or a Goodra.
However we're still speculating here so let's not make too many assumptions on how Gen VI's metagame will evolve to become.
- Status