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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)
- Thread starter GCSChris
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Aggron-M - the new Skarmory?
...Im still stoked for Kangaskhan-M - 2x power up punch = a free SD while dealing damage. The 'mon is certainly going to see some fun and gimmicky sets - I just want to know whether you'll be allowed to use 2 different moves or not :3
The problem I see with Charizard is the fact that, even in mega X form, he still has to switch in with a 4x SR weakness... I just don't see him being used - and even if he does see some play, It'll just make SR users more commonly seen...
Wow, those defensive stats blow Skarmory out of the water. And it's pure Steel with Filter? Filter might not be the most gamebreaking ability but making 100 BP moves like Earthquake effectively 75 BP (25% reduced damage right?) is pretty great. Aggron will tank like no other. No item is heartbreaking though, as it would do very well with a Choice Band (or just lefties of course).
Goodra, as lovely and sticky as it is, seems a little underwhelming. That 600 BST just doesn't look as impressive as it does on all the other Psuedos. And its hidden ability seems to only work on contact moves...yet Goodra is a special tank and has poor attack (assuming it works both ways)? Having Outrages that lower the opponent's speed is still interesting though. I'm pulling for you Goodra, even if I can't get a solid grip when I hug you. ;{
Goodra, as lovely and sticky as it is, seems a little underwhelming. That 600 BST just doesn't look as impressive as it does on all the other Psuedos. And its hidden ability seems to only work on contact moves...yet Goodra is a special tank and has poor attack (assuming it works both ways)? Having Outrages that lower the opponent's speed is still interesting though. I'm pulling for you Goodra, even if I can't get a solid grip when I hug you. ;{
Everything that stops dragons is more then welcome addition. Although I doubt he gets recovery (Give it Wish Support or use RestTalk), but still those stats look sweet. And holy cow, that defense :P.
Well so far IMO it looks like MegaCharizard Y may use Tailwind Late-game cleaner set, where you just need to switch in once and clean from there. So far I see no other uses for it. It would work as a lead, but... he doesn't even learn Taunt, Fake Out or something that would make it work on Lead position.
Milobellus is not part fairy :(
Battled one in the Battle Maison, and could use my Dragon Type moves.
Battled one in the Battle Maison, and could use my Dragon Type moves.
Milobellus?
Milotic
Oops sorry I forgot that it hadn't the same name in english D: I'm sleep deprived !
Hi guys, New here..
Was wondering if anyone could provide a link to a thread containing the new pokemons base stats (If it exists that is)
Delphox (Fennekin final evo) is proving to be a tremendously good Special Sweeper, In-Game at least anyway. (I got a modest one and did a bit of super training but it is still managing to decimate everything in its past so far a great move-pool as well.)
Was wondering if anyone could provide a link to a thread containing the new pokemons base stats (If it exists that is)
Delphox (Fennekin final evo) is proving to be a tremendously good Special Sweeper, In-Game at least anyway. (I got a modest one and did a bit of super training but it is still managing to decimate everything in its past so far a great move-pool as well.)
Mega Aggron is no longer a Rock type. Mega Aggron can't hold the Assualt Vest because, being a MegaEvolution, he's forced to hold a MegaStone.
oh true... but rhyperior would still be rly good with assault vest and sand....
**Don't lose faith in Goodra!**
Goodra:
So it seems like Goodra has an ability called Gooey if I'm not mistaken. This is a fantastic addition for Goodra as it helps mitigate its average Base Speed. Hydration is honestly pretty "OP" under rain considering the user is Goodra. I haven't tested Sap Sipper but I can definitely see the ability being utilized in some niche set.
#teamgoodra
Talonflame:
This thing. I'm definitely using this over my MegaCharizard X. Gale Wing is simple too OP ladies and gentleman. Scratch that. Talonflame is pretty OP lol
Fire-Flying has great resistances and amazing STAB coverage. Unlike MegaCharizard Y, Talonflame has very viable STABs for both elements.
Gale Wing is seriously where Talonflame leaves its mark though. Priority in things like Brave Bird, Acrobatics, and possibly Tailwind? But we're not done yet.
Priority Roost is simply amazing and also if it gets access to Feather Dance ... we have not only an amazing offense Pokemon but a very viable bulky Pokemon as well.
#talonflamewo0t
Furfrou:
Baby Doll-Eyes in conjunction with Fur-Coat? Immunity to arguably the best offensive typing, Ghost? Great base Speed? Furfrou is not your average poodle guys haha
Seriously though, Furfrou has some insane potential. Maybe it's still way to early to call shots like this but having Priority Intimidate with some broken ability like Fur-Coat is pretty awesome.
Now if Furfrou has no access to moves like Slack Off then that'll seriously hurt its viability to tank/wall. But hopefully GameFreak will be kind enough to gift it with such a move~
#poodles
Heliolisk:
Alright let's be honest. This thing looks like it came out the butt-end of a dinosaur and never really got much plastic surgery after. LOL, I hate its design.
But I love the Pokemon. A Blistering base 120 speed along with an above average base 120 SAtk is phenominal.
The ability makes it even better. Dry Skin! Although Rain got nerfed, it isn't to say that Rain will just become an obsolete playstyle. Less common , probably. Not gone though. So Dry Skin is still a very viable Ability. Add Dry Skin + Life Orb + Parabolic Charge and you have yourself a Life Orb monster
Goodra:
So it seems like Goodra has an ability called Gooey if I'm not mistaken. This is a fantastic addition for Goodra as it helps mitigate its average Base Speed. Hydration is honestly pretty "OP" under rain considering the user is Goodra. I haven't tested Sap Sipper but I can definitely see the ability being utilized in some niche set.
#teamgoodra
Talonflame:
This thing. I'm definitely using this over my MegaCharizard X. Gale Wing is simple too OP ladies and gentleman. Scratch that. Talonflame is pretty OP lol
Fire-Flying has great resistances and amazing STAB coverage. Unlike MegaCharizard Y, Talonflame has very viable STABs for both elements.
Gale Wing is seriously where Talonflame leaves its mark though. Priority in things like Brave Bird, Acrobatics, and possibly Tailwind? But we're not done yet.
Priority Roost is simply amazing and also if it gets access to Feather Dance ... we have not only an amazing offense Pokemon but a very viable bulky Pokemon as well.
#talonflamewo0t
Furfrou:
Baby Doll-Eyes in conjunction with Fur-Coat? Immunity to arguably the best offensive typing, Ghost? Great base Speed? Furfrou is not your average poodle guys haha
Seriously though, Furfrou has some insane potential. Maybe it's still way to early to call shots like this but having Priority Intimidate with some broken ability like Fur-Coat is pretty awesome.
Now if Furfrou has no access to moves like Slack Off then that'll seriously hurt its viability to tank/wall. But hopefully GameFreak will be kind enough to gift it with such a move~
#poodles
Heliolisk:
Alright let's be honest. This thing looks like it came out the butt-end of a dinosaur and never really got much plastic surgery after. LOL, I hate its design.
But I love the Pokemon. A Blistering base 120 speed along with an above average base 120 SAtk is phenominal.
The ability makes it even better. Dry Skin! Although Rain got nerfed, it isn't to say that Rain will just become an obsolete playstyle. Less common , probably. Not gone though. So Dry Skin is still a very viable Ability. Add Dry Skin + Life Orb + Parabolic Charge and you have yourself a Life Orb monster
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I'd definitely use Crobat in OU if I suddenly had access to base 120 STAB priority attacks as opposed to some base 40 power move. You won't be sweeping with it, but the difference in base power can save you late game. Outspeeding most of the tier already is a plus in Talonflame's case because you get to outspeed other priority users such as mamoswine and scizor, effectively preventing you from being easily revenged after pulling off a revenge kill of your own.
The real problem with Talonflame lies in SR weakness (because you won't be spamming brave bird with 50% of your health) and stuff like Extremespeed dragonite, who will outspeed you anyway. With Talonflame's bulk, it would usually come into SR and be revenged by scizor immediately after KO'ing something. Now it simply picks off weakened scizor by itself. I would never recommend sword's dance on this thing, but you'll be tearing through a bunch of offensively oriented Pokemon with ease if you actually pull one off.
I mean, base 85 attack or no, do I really need to switch out of Pokemon such as jolteon or scarf terrakion anymore? Hell no. +2 LO brave bird ohko's both Pokemon.
Edit: why is my avatar a Walrein now? Feels weird to be posting on smogon after so long...
The real problem with Talonflame lies in SR weakness (because you won't be spamming brave bird with 50% of your health) and stuff like Extremespeed dragonite, who will outspeed you anyway. With Talonflame's bulk, it would usually come into SR and be revenged by scizor immediately after KO'ing something. Now it simply picks off weakened scizor by itself. I would never recommend sword's dance on this thing, but you'll be tearing through a bunch of offensively oriented Pokemon with ease if you actually pull one off.
I mean, base 85 attack or no, do I really need to switch out of Pokemon such as jolteon or scarf terrakion anymore? Hell no. +2 LO brave bird ohko's both Pokemon.
Edit: why is my avatar a Walrein now? Feels weird to be posting on smogon after so long...
yeah but sr does nothing to a talonflame lead...
you could easily pull off a lead set with talonflame as it has access to will o wisp.
Talonflame might not necessarily be great in OU, but Gale Wings sure did open up some opportunities for it, as it is no longer an outclassed roasted Swellow clone but can actually dent shit, especially with Swords Dance. Actually, Talonflame might even be viable in OU on second thought, considering a STAB base 110/120 power (depending on whether you want to nuke shit with LO Brave Bird or choose flying gem acrobatics, which is initially stronger and doesn't have recoil) priority move is really, really scary after a Swords Dance, regardless of an underwhelming base attack stat. The main thing about it, though, is that it basically can't be revenge killed. Unless you run something with Extremespeed or a fast scarfer that resists flying, you can keep on going until you fail to KO something, meaning that you're best off using it as a late-game cleaner.
To summarize: While Talonflame has some major problems it has to overcome (Stealth Rock, disappointing initial attack), it can provide to be a unique cleaner with the right support to back it up. It might not be a top-tier threat, but it will definitely find some use, and it will wreck shit hard in the lower tiers.
E: yay Avalugg! You're not total shite after all!
To summarize: While Talonflame has some major problems it has to overcome (Stealth Rock, disappointing initial attack), it can provide to be a unique cleaner with the right support to back it up. It might not be a top-tier threat, but it will definitely find some use, and it will wreck shit hard in the lower tiers.
E: yay Avalugg! You're not total shite after all!
Yo, I am going to test the shit out of Avalugg now. Seriously this is almost too good to be true, can I have a source?
Why? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but at least say why you think this. This isn't just targeted at this post; there are more like it. Reasoning, people... reasoning. This type of "pokemon will/will not get this move/ability" generally merits no discussion. If you're discussion if a pokemon gets a move/ability and how that will impact the OU tier be my guest to post. Thank you.
Thank you :]
This is not the place to ask that.
This:
I've updated the OP with the following:
- Critical hits are nerfed to x1.5 damage from x2.0
- There is a new Entry Hazard- Sticky Web, which lowers the opposing pokemon's speed stat when it siwtches in on top of it.
- Mega Garhomp's stats
- Mega Mewtwo X (woops never added this)
- made hide tags for MegaT tar and Mega Aagron including their types and abilities
- Mega Gardevoir
- Mega Gyarados
- If a weather rock is held, the weather ablities last 8 turns instead of 5
- The sleep counter does not reset on switch out.
Outspeeding every single Choice Scarf user and OHKOing all of them with the exception of Choice Scarf Jirachi is huge. Tell me, which other Swords Dance user has that advantage? Furthermore, Talonflame can use an Adamant nature to have the equivalent of 92 Base Attack (assuming its Base Attack is 80) and its main STAB has 110 BP with terrific neutral coverage. Flame Charge or Flare Blitz covers any Steel-type (all of which are slower, except from Choice Scarf Jirachi), and you can even use Roost with some HP investment if you want. For example, with Roost, the standard Choice Scarf Jirachi has nothing on you, as you can just not give a shit about its usual attacks (Iron Head, Ice Punch, U-turn) and just 2HKO it with Acrobatics if it goes for Trick. Furthermore, priority Acrobatics makes this Pokemon basically immune to most priority, as the most popular priority users in OU are Breloom, Scizor, and Mamoswine, all of which are boned by a +2 Acrobatics and are outsped. Only Extremspeed users can hit Talonflame before it uses Acrobatics, and even then Talonflame can take the hits rather well if it opts to invest in HP (plus Roost).
So, you have a Swords Dance sweeper immune to Choice Scarfers (bar Choice Scarf Jirachi), immune to priority (bad Extremspeed), and with awesome STABs, that only really minds physical walls not weak to its STABs and some Rock-types (the only move it has to hit Rock-types that resist Acrobatics is Steel Wing so far). And you compare this thing to Crobat? Its only real disadvantage is its huge SR weakness, but we all know that this doesn't prevent a sweeper from succeeding in OU if its worth it (Volcarona).
Oh, i forgot to mention what an amazing revenge killing tool priority Acrobatics is too. No more getting swept by QD Volcarona, Chlorophyll Venusaur, or Choice Scarf Keldeo, Talonflame is here!!!
Also, some calcs against 252 HP / 252 Def+ Mega Aggron for fun:
- +2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 225-265 (65.4 - 77.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 226-267 (65.69 - 77.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 287-339 (83.43 - 98.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 126-148 (36.62 - 43.02%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- +2 252+ Atk Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 166-196 (48.25 - 56.97%) -- 90.23% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 127-151 (36.91 - 43.89%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 209-246 (86.36 - 101.65%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 432-508 (144.48 - 169.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I cant think of a single choice scarf user it doesnt beat. In fact i cant think of a single pokemon overall it doesnt beat. Even heatran is taking 60%ish, while it cant do shit back. Thats definitely a top threat right there.
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 432-508 (144.48 - 169.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I cant think of a single choice scarf user it doesnt beat. In fact i cant think of a single pokemon overall it doesnt beat. Even heatran is taking 60%ish, while it cant do shit back. Thats definitely a top threat right there.
Mostly just posting to say that I agree with alexwolf. Is it going to be a top OU threat? Who knows? We might be overhyping it a lot, but I definitely see a lot of potential for it in the metagame. The cool thing about it is that it can set up on things it can force switches against, and with its great offensive typing, that's not too difficult. It could also run a Choice Band set to mitigate its middling offensive stats. +1 priority on a 110 or 120 BP STAB Flying-type attack is pretty fantastic, and yes, it does destroy most Choice Scarf users from the BW2 metagame. Thundurus-T isn't that commonly seen running a Choice Scarf, and Scarf Rotom-W is pretty much a BW1/DPP relic at this point because its main appeal is its phenomenal bulk and typing—not its average-at-best Speed. I really have to disagree with people saying that its ability is wasted on it; while it's not the ideal user of the ability because it already has fantastic Speed, being able to destroy so many different offensive Pokemon is huge. I have no doubt that Talonflame will be viable in XY OU, but who knows if it will be really good or just a niche fast attacker.
Base 80 Attack is very sub-par for an offensive Pokemon. Talonflame is also cursed with the miserable 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. But you have to look past that and see the potential sets Talonflame is capable of abusing. It's still way to earlier to be calling shots and shooting down Talonflame, especially considering his ability Gale Wing.
As a cleaner, Talonflame will be more than sufficient. His base Speed allows him to run an Adamant nature and still outspeed +Spe Natured Base 108 Pokemon such as Keldeo and Terrakion. However a Jolly nature is needed in order to outspeed things such as Heliolisk and MegaLucario. Keep in mind not all 252 Spe EVs will have to be invested in order to outspeed them. With access to Swords Dance Talonflame can hit either 518 with Jolly or 568 with Adamant [-20 compared to CB Terrakion . Just for reference]. Hitting that high should definitely be more than enough to clean up late game.
Access to Flare Blitz and Acrobatics turn him into an absolute beast as very few things can take on a +2 Talonflame especially late-game.
Here are some basic calculations with Jolly Nature without Stealth Rock damage counted in:
- +2 252 Atk (custom) Flare Blitz vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 320-380 (97.85 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
- +2 252 Atk (custom) Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 784-928 (222.72 - 263.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +1 252 Atk Flying Gem (custom) Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 265-313 (69.55 - 82.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 Atk Flying Gem (custom) Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 40+ Def Gliscor: 282-333 (80.11 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 Atk Flying Gem (custom) Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 351-414 (87.09 - 102.72%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
- +2 252 Atk Flying Gem (custom) Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 262-310 (66.49 - 78.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 252 Atk Flying Gem (custom) Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Tentacruel: 405-477 (111.57 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +2 252 Atk Flying Gem (custom) Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 179-211 (52.33 - 61.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Talonflame also has access to priority Roost. That's pretty huge in my opinion. 70/80/80 Defenses are pretty paper thin but having instant recovery can really help Talonflame clutch out in key moments. Considering how frail he is and how he's leaning towards a more offensive Pokemon, priority Roost is probably not all too great but it's definitely a viable option.
Priority Tailwind stands out as yet another option, as gimmicky as it is. Prankster Tailwind is definitely a differentiating trait that can help earn him a spot in OU. Just imagine what a combination Tailwind Talonflame and MegaGarchomp could pull off lol.
So I don't think Talonflame is too outclassed just yet to be shot out of OU
*greninja'd by alexwolf
While I do think these calcs are impressive as a wall breaking IMO I think you are a over stating it a bit. Remember after one use of Brave Bird, that Flight gem boost is completely lost, with a little smart play it is very possible to have them waist it, or at the very least sack something. After that use, it isn't nearly as threatening.
Plus don't forget, between Stealth Rock, Brave Bird recoil, and just overall frailty, it isn't staying around for too long.
Great wall breaker and check? Perhaps, I don't know what else you can say beyond that though.
Plus don't forget, between Stealth Rock, Brave Bird recoil, and just overall frailty, it isn't staying around for too long.
Great wall breaker and check? Perhaps, I don't know what else you can say beyond that though.
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