Pokémon Greninja

[Turnerrr]

An all-out physical counterpart seems viable for the surprise factor yet viability. 90 Base Attack is plenty when you have a speed of 372.

Greninja@Life Orb/Flying Gem
Torrent/Protean

Jolly 4 HP/252 ATK/252 Spd

U-Turn
Night Slash
Waterfall
Spikes/Acrobatics

It can depend on the role you need him to play. He makes a pretty good Acrobatics + Flying Gem candidate with his speed higher than most, and doesn't really need a Scarf half the time to U-turn out of there. Properly EV'd gives it some oomph, even without STAB. And a solidly EV'd Night Slash can prevent overzealous Jellicents looking to sponge a U-Turn.

And Starmie simply cannot think of switching in or staying in. With a U-turn any minute and a Night Slash with a guaranteed 2HKO, specially with Protean changing the type before Damage.

He has a lot of physical options, which admittedly don't have the base power of the special options, but they're there.

I was thinking him and Magnezone would be a good duo, with them sharing only an Fighting weakness, and Magnezone catching those Skarmories that wanna sponge things.

 

[Fundance]

considering that it lacks physical boosting moves, I feel like Water Shuriken is going to be hard to make use for on a mixed set.

 

[Fundance]

I was thinking it would mainly be used to get rid of rock types with Sturdy, but back then I was banking on it being special.

I mean at least it's a great way to destroy FEAR aaron and Probopass if anything.

 

[TaBuu]

Hidden Power Ghost stands as a much more viable option over Shadow Sneak should Shadow Ball not be available to Greninja.
Hidden Power Ghost is guaranteed to OHKO Offensive Starmie after Stealth Rock while 2HKOing Jellicent if it switches in on Stealth Rock

 

[ginganinja]

Hidden Power Ghost stands as a much more viable option over Shadow Sneak should Shadow Ball not be available to Greninja.
Hidden Power Ghost is guaranteed to OHKO Offensive Starmie after Stealth Rock while 2HKOing Jellicent if it switches in on Stealth Rock

Yea but ideally, you want HP Fire in that slot to nuke Ferrothorn or something, which would otherwise happily set up Spikes alongside you.

 

[TaBuu]

Hide

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/greninja.3489907/page-4#post-4886113

U-Turn should actually be enough to KO Psychic Type Pokemon and if not Greninja can always a little more in Attack.
HP Fire could nuke Ferrothorn and also prevent Will-O-Wisp burns.
The fact that Greninja loses his niche as "rapid-spin blocker" kind of sucks. Also he loses out on gaining immunity to Fight and Normal Type Moves not to mention trapping.
Very debatable.

 

[Schpoonman]

Really, Starmie can't do a damn thing to Greninja. If it tries to switch in and spin against the Spikes set (assuming Starmie isn't scarfed), it's GOING to get slapped by a Protean-STABbed attack, whether it be U-turn, Night Slash, or Dark Pulse. Or Flying Gem Acrobatics, which OHKOs fresh Starmie half the time. Protean is going to make Greninja one of the most wily and devastating attackers this generation.

 

[Judicator]

Something I don't think has been addressed yet: as we all know, Hidden Power can be any type, but no matter what type it is, it always shows up as Normal on the stats screen/move select screen. So when Greninja uses HP Fire for example, does it become Normal or Fire?

 

[ApathyandToast]

Something I don't think has been addressed yet: as we all know, Hidden Power can be any type, but no matter what type it is, it always shows up as Normal on the stats screen/move select screen. So when Greninja uses HP Fire for example, does it become Normal or Fire?

I'll test and report back

It does indeed change his type to the HP type.

 

[Thorhammer]

Greninja gets Waterfall, which hits harder than Water Shuriken ever can. Best to leave the multi-hit Sub-breaking to the Pokemon that are actually made for those moves.

 

[Thorhammer]

Water Shuriken lets Greninja beat Infernape, who otherwise kills it with Mach Punch.
It also lets it beat revenge kill much more dangerous things such as Speed Boost Blaziken. There's no real reason to run Waterfall over that.

Ahh, I didn't notice that it had priority. That changes things.

 

[piespy]

I just confirmed that Protean does provide a STAB bonus. Used rock tomb with two level 10 Froakies with identical attack stats (defenses were slightly different) against the same level 30 Teddiursa. The one with protean dealt more damage.

Also, no luck breeding a Froakie with Shadow Ball.

 

[piespy]

Just going through the TMs I have and I'm noticing a few moves that are missing from the first post:

Can learn:
TM06: Toxic
TM10: Hidden Power
TM21: Frustration
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM49: Echoed Voice

 

[MrMewTwo]

I'm having a tough time between Hidden Power Ghost and Hidden Power Fire. Fire is excellent against scizor. Greninja is weak to fairy, fighting, bug, and grass. Hidden power fire with protean makes three of those weaknesses into resists (and potentially stops spore). Yet hidden power ghost is excellent in spin blocking and is fairy strong. Lick however seems to be an excellent alternative, especially with the excellent paralysis that it may provide.

 

[Mattman324]

Hidden Power Ghost is also nice because it stops people from trapping it, specifically Mega Gengar.

...except if you have U-Turn, you can get out anyway. Hmm.

 

[piespy]

Right now I've got:

Greninja @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Just trying out its offensive capabilities with the type switching for now, I'll end up swapping for some utility once I actually start constructing a team. Just wondering if hidden power grass is redundant since it's effective against a lot of the same things as surf, though the resistances are definitely nice. Especially since all of my friends tend to favour electric types.

I'm thinking something like:

Greninja @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Surf/Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

is where I probably want to end up. I'm hoping to keep him as a special or mixed attacker for now so that he can fit well into a number of teams while I'm training up other pokemon, but I'm sure that will change as the metagame for gen 6 starts to be more clearly defined. Unless fairy becomes very popular in competitive battling, I could see fire giving Greninja better type coverage than ghost unless you're using him as a spin blocker. And besides, if fairy becomes popular, then steel might be used even more than it is now to counter it.

 

[stocean]

What about Shadow Sneak as a replacement for HP Ghost? It has 20 less power but can counter Mach Punch from things like Conkeldurr and much, much easier to get than HP Ghost.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

What about Shadow Sneak as a replacement for HP Ghost? It has 20 less power but can counter Mach Punch from things like Conkeldurr and much, much easier to get than HP Ghost.

If you're not investing in Attack, STAB Shadow Sneak won't exactly be the most powerful thing on the planet (hint Dusknoir hint).

Also, as much as I'd like to continue this Shadow Ball / HP Ghost charade forward, I'd just like to say that imo Greninja being able to spin-block isn't exactly a huge deal. Just run Hidden Power Fire, check that Ferrothorn or whatever, and U-turn to a Ghost-type to temporarily block it. Sure, this might limit your options a bit (forced to run a Ghost-type and all that), but you should be able to gain momentum from all potential Rapid Spin users aside from Tentacruel. This isn't even taking into account that Hidden Power in general has such a crappy BP right now.

 

[Hypercut]

Just going through the TMs I have and I'm noticing a few moves that are missing from the first post:

Can learn:
TM06: Toxic
TM10: Hidden Power
TM21: Frustration
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM49: Echoed Voice

Yes, thanks. I haven't put them on the list because in the game I haven't take them yet. I rely on what I find on the internet.
Edited 1st post with this new MT, and erased Shadow Ball.

However..

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Unfortunately Greninja as has already been said, suffers from 4-slot syndrome. If you put HP Fire, you can't hit Ferrothorn, but if you don't put Hp Ghost, Fight move will destroy Greninja. And if you don't put Water Shuriken, Scizor's Bullet Punch will destroy Greninja (Water Shuriken return Greninja to Water-type before Bullet.)

Maybe a Sub set with leftovers?

 

[silenced]

Just one small thing to add in the whole HP Ghost debate going on, shadow sneak would have a few niche uses, enough to warrant a slash anyways since due to greninja's high speed, your priority goes first, thus allowing you to change your typing to ghost before infernape, breloom or conkeldurr can use mach punch against you.

 

[TwoBit]

Just one small thing to add in the whole HP Ghost debate going on, shadow sneak would have a few niche uses, enough to warrant a slash anyways since due to greninja's high speed, your priority goes first, thus allowing you to change your typing to ghost before infernape, breloom or conkeldurr can use mach punch against you.

I think what's important are Greninja's options after Shadow Sneak. It doesn't seem like it'll 2HKO any of these even with STAB, not with sub 100 Atk power. All three pokemon have ways hitting Greninja back after shadow sneak. Infernape and breloom can STAB Flare Blitz and bullet seed respectively. Conkeldurr can OHKO with payback, guaranteed. Seems like the only guarantee is against Infernape as Greninja can Hydro Pump after Shadow Sneak.

 

[silenced]

I think what's important are Greninja's options after Shadow Sneak. It doesn't seem like it'll 2HKO any of these even with STAB, not with sub 100 Atk power. All three pokemon have ways hitting Greninja back after shadow sneak. Infernape and breloom can STAB Flare Blitz and bullet seed respectively. Conkeldurr can OHKO with payback, guaranteed.

Yes, but at this point greninja is a faster ghost who can hit back with protean changing it back to water and OHKO'ing infernape, while breloom can be hit with ice beam. Conkeldurr I give you, since extrasensory wouldn't really be worth it.

 

[Judicator]

The way I look at it, if you're specifically wanting Greninja to spinblock, HP Ghost/Shadow Sneak/Lick is a matter of preference, depending on whether you want power (not that much power to be honest), priority or a paralysis chance. I think all three are equally viable, it just depends on what you want to do.

 

[VCrowe]

The way I look at it, if you're specifically wanting Greninja to spinblock, HP Ghost/Shadow Sneak/Lick is a matter of preference, depending on whether you want power (not that much power to be honest), priority or a paralysis chance. I think all three are equally viable, it just depends on what you want to do.

I would personally prefer shadow sneak since it'll pretty much guarantee that you can change to ghost before hit with a fighting move.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Or, you know, you guys can just switch out of the most predictable Mach Punches ever and come to a fast Fairy-type or Gengar and not have to deal with one of the weakest priority moves (in Greninja's case anyways) ever.