Pokémon Zygarde

[Haruno]

Bulk doesn't mean much when you have one of the worst defensive typings in game. Hp ice/ice beam will still be everywhere, dragon moves might not be as spammable but they'll definitely still have a use, fairies are unknown as of now. Zygarde also lacks a proper support movepool and clearly isn't threatening offensively (lol base 95)

 

[Siggu]

Bulk doesn't mean much when you have one of the worst defensive typings in game. Hp ice/ice beam will still be everywhere, dragon moves might not be as spammable but they'll definitely still have a use, fairies are unknown as of now. Zygarde also lacks a proper support movepool and clearly isn't threatening offensively (lol base 95)

Either I am missing something or just adding Fairy made Dragon/Ground a bad typing or you're too harsh...

 

[Haruno]

Garchomp can pull of dragon/ground since it isn't slow and it forces switches ontop of being a threatening sweeper so although it has terrible weaknesses it's somewhat hard to kill since you're limited to keldeo, latias and scarfers however sub chomp fixes that problem.

Zygarde however doesn't have that benefit. It can't force switches with its monstrous base 95 attack, it may have dd but it's still slow and thus easily revenged not to mention it has a much harder time setting up since it doesn't force switches not does it threaten anything even after a boost.

 

[NoUserName]

A defensive set such as Toxic-Rest-Sleep Talk-Dragon Tail shouldn't look that bad, it can be played like Physically Defensive Flygon but with much more bulk but with an useless ability and no Roost/Recover. If it had Recover, it would be way better as an defensive mon.
At least this gen sleep mechanics are as the pre-5th gen mech and Sleep Talk-Dragon Tail prevents non Substitute setup when sleeping(except by fairies)
And this gen there are more Heal Bell/Aromaterapy users(Sylveon and the other fairy which learns Aromaterapy which I can't remember its name)

I don't see it as a Dragon Dancer with E-S because it's low attack Dragonite pulls it better and neither as an Scarfer because lacks U-turn and does not hit the decisive 100 Spd base like Flygon(nor has Levitate)

 

[Hiphopanonymous]

People are hating on Zygarde way too much. Solid stats all around, good typing, and good movepool make him a good Pokemon already. Its stat spread and movepool is also very different from Garchomp and has the right tools to avoid being outclassed by its more offensive competitor. I mean, this thing is more bulky than freaking Hippowdon, way faster, and has a very good boosting move (Coil) as well as strong priority. Here is what i think will be its best set:

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk or 252 Spe (or any spread between 252 Spe and 252 Atk)
Nature: Adamant or Jolly
- Coil
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
- Extremspeed

With his phenomenal bulk and good typing finding setup chances won't be difficult. With just one Coil under its belt this thing is unkillable from the physical side. You don't believe me? Check out for yourself:

252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Zygarde: 336-396 (80 - 94.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Zygarde: 244-292 (58.09 - 69.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Of course special attackers can still take it out with Ice Beam or special Dragon moves, but at late-game it won't be that hard to wear down those special attackers to the KO range of +1 Exremspeed. Earthquake + Stone Edge provides unresisted neutral coverage on anything except from Bronzong while Dragon Tail bypasses would-be counters such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. Extremespeed is what makes this set work and makes Zygarde useful even against offensive teams, giving it a very strong priority attack that has good neutral coverage and even bypasses opposing priority hits (Ice Shard from Weavile for example). Having a good physical bulky booster (i am talking about Bulk Up or Coil users) that isn't hopelessly slow (Conkeldurr) and has really great coverage is something that was lacking from OU, and Zygarde fits this role like a glove. Of course its effectiveness will depend on how the metagame will shape up but i think it has potential and it fills a unique role that OU has been lacking for a long time.

You might be on to something here, but it still doesn't seem like it gets any reliable recovery, so it HAS to be passed Wishes or be a Healing Wish recipient to stay healthy. I think Eviolite Chansey/Blissey could help in this regard, as they could possibly take a hit meant for the other--Zygarde taking a CC and Chansey/Blissey eating an Ice Beam, for example. Seems like a lot of support, but it would be a good option for defensively oriented teams, especially shuffling around with Dragon Tail and racking up some hazard damage. Aegislash won't even want to switch in against Chansey either, despite being immune to both Seismic Toss and Toxic, since it wouldn't want to stare down Zygarde either. I wonder what other nice team support options Zygarde has going for it--it seems pretty underwhelming, but I definitely underestimated that physical bulk. Can we get some calcs on how Lando-T and Zygarde both take hits compared to one another?

 

[Haruno]

A defensive set such as Toxic-Rest-Sleep Talk-Dragon Tail shouldn't look that bad, it can be played like Physically Defensive Flygon but with much more bulk but with an useless ability and no Roost/Recover. If it had Recover, it would be way better as an defensive mon.
At least this gen sleep mechanics are as the pre-5th gen mech and Sleep Talk-Dragon Tail prevents non Substitute setup when sleeping(except by fairies)
And this gen there are more Heal Bell/Aromaterapy users(Sylveon and the other fairy which learns Aromaterapy which I can't remember its name)

I don't see it as a Dragon Dancer with E-S because it's low attack Dragonite pulls it better and neither as an Scarfer because lacks U-turn and does not hit the decisive 100 Spd base like Flygon(nor has Levitate)

I like how you mention phys def flygon like it's a thing (hint it's not). Resttalk in itself is a horrid strategy that gives free turns the majority of the time, dtail is no longer spammable thanks to fairies, relying on toxic is even worse than gira-a using resttalk + WoW + roar as a check to ekiller................

Zygarde can't be a scarfer since one it's weak and two it's slow. Zygarde cant be banded since it's weak and it's also slow. No point using aromatherapy and requiring that massive amount of team support for a mon that isn't even good........... That's akin to carrying a bouncer just to make sure shedinja doesn't die.

 

[DTC]

Bulk doesn't mean much when you have one of the worst defensive typings in game.

I understand that you think Zygarde is underwhelming compared to Garchomp, but that doesn't mean Zygarde suddenly has "one of the worst defensive typings in the game". That's a pretty fucking bold statement, and it definitely does not hold any weight whatsoever for a Dragon/Ground-type. Lets just break down Dragon/Ground defensively:

Weaknesses:
4x weak to Ice
2x weak to Dragon
2x weak to Fairy

Resistances:
Immune to Electric
Resistant to Rock
Resistant to Fire
Resistant to Poison

So while the typing isn't incredible defensively, it has two very good resistances in Fire and Rock and a decent resistance in Electric. In terms of weaknesses, it's very weak to Ice, and weak to Dragon and Fairy. I doubt Fairy-types will be super relevant considering the ones that have been revealed so far (Azumarill is the only one I can confidently say will be great), but anyways, that clearly isn't a horrible defensive type. Sure it's nothing amazing, but I don't see how it's half bad, nevermind "one of the worst defensive typings in the game"?


You're clearly exaggerating here because you have some sort of unfathomable and unreasonable vendetta against Zygarde (as evident by your posts in this thread). It's really not half bad. That physical bulk is fantastic, it has a very nice offensive typing, and it has two great boosting moves in Dragon Dance and Coil. It does faces some competition from Garchomp, but Garchomp doesn't have Dragon Dance (which is pretty much everyone's move wish-list for Garchomp) and Coil, which definitely gives Zygarde a niche over Garchomp.


Sure you can list every flaw (it doesn't have much) that Zygarde has... and nitpick every argument for Zygarde being a good Pokemon, but the fact of the matter is every Pokemon has some sort of flaw, however some have a lot of attributes that redeem it from its flaws, like Zygarde has.

 

[SJCrew]

I'm not even counting OU with the information we have. UU looks to be a very interesting tier with old champions running around. Zygarde is looking to do some work with a bulky Sub Coil set in the lower tiers. Its offense is nothing special, but when you look in tandem with its defenses, it is very likely to take something out before it faints.

 

[gali]

Zygarde is outclassed in OU by pretty much every other Dragon that's already there. However, I think that it can really shine in UU. The only UU Dragons from last gen were Kingdra and Flygon, and neither of those are really comparable to Zygarde since they play differently. Flygon is best used as a Choice item user, while Kingdra, despite the popularity of its DD set, is arguably best used as a special attacker. Zygarde's niche is being a boosting sweeper with really good bulk.

 

[Zeta5]

Hold on folks. perhaps Zygarde might not be uber with what we see now(at least until a new form/mega evo is made). But for now I think Zygarde might be able pull something a lot like what Shedinja pulled in 5th gen ubers(being Kyogre's bane for an example).

It all depends on the impact Xerneas and Yveltal have on the ubers metagame. At least there he can use his ability to royally screw over Zerneas and Yveltal's abilities. If you think about it, if the cover duo make a powerful impact on the meta(since you know...their powerful abilities..), Zygarde might just be the perfect answer to stop their rampage should they become high tier threats. Only real issue being HP ice but if they are locked into a fairy/dark type move(Yvetal kinda being the focus here due to fairy weakness) or don't carry it, Zygarde might just be our pokemon for the job.

Basically, any chance of Zygarde being used in ubers pretty much rides on whether choice specs/scarf Xerneas/Yveltal becomes a huge problem in ubers or not

 

[Haruno]

Hold on folks. perhaps Zygarde might not be uber with what we see now(at least until a new form/mega evo is made). But for now I think Zygarde might be able pull something a lot like what Shedinja pulled in 5th gen ubers(being Kyogre's bane for an example).

It all depends on the impact Xerneas and Yveltal have on the ubers metagame. At least there he can use his ability to royally screw over Zerneas and Yveltal's abilities. If you think about it, if the cover duo make a powerful impact on the meta(since you know...their powerful abilities..), Zygarde might just be the perfect answer to stop their rampage should they become high tier threats. Only real issue being HP ice but if they are locked into a fairy/dark type move(Yvetal kinda being the focus here due to fairy weakness) or don't carry it, Zygarde might just be our pokemon for the job.

Basically, any chance of Zygarde being used in ubers pretty much rides on whether choice specs/scarf Xerneas/Yveltal becomes a huge problem in ubers or not

Xerneas ohko's with a +2 moonblast even after aura break lawls. Yveltal just uses it as setup bait.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Zygarde is not an anti-Xerneas or anti-Yveltal, no matter how much we try twisting it, so let's try not inflating its actual viability by mentioning the two of them. Let's be honest here; Zygarde is in a whole new different world when compared to those two behemoths haha

I, for one, am actually looking forward to testing this thing in an actual battle. Great bulk and decent stats to go along with great boosting options? Sure thing. I don't even care Garchomp exists because of Dragon Dance, nor specific methods of revenge killing, since it can surely tank most of them.

 

[Zeta5]

Xerneas ohko's with a +2 moonblast even after aura break lawls. Yveltal just uses it as setup bait.

Well..I didn't think moonblast would do that much, unfortunate(its also +2). Yveltal on the other hand, I said choiced didn't I?

 

[Hrothgar]

I am also excited to test this. Bulky offense has always been my favorite style, and this bulk is impressive to say the least. A coiling dragon that starts with great defensive stats and has an improved stone edge is nothing to scoff at.

Not at all interested in dragon dance though...coil is the way to go with this thing imo.

But why does it get a signature move that's a strictly worse earthquake, and eq is a level up move? Massive shigerutroll.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

It's a shame he lacks Dragon Rush. That'd go nicely on a coil set. As it is, his only STAB options are Outrage and... Dragon Tail. Unless you're going special.

Dragon Dance looks like his best bet, but I'd still be tempted to run a tanky Coil set

Item: Leftovers
Coil
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Dragon Tail/Outrage/Extremespeed

EV for bulk rather than offense, since he has plenty of it; it may be an idea to focus on special bulk since he already has impressive Def and Coil will be boosting it. Some speed might help too?
Stone Edge loses its accuracy issue after coiling, making it reliable. It also deals with Togekiss. Earthquake needs no help, a solid STAB off decent, boosted attack that also deals with most Steel Types including Mawile. Azumarill won't like it too much either, but is probably still a threat.
Outrage is for power but I'm not sure how good it is on a tanky set, and makes you vulnerable to steel types. Dragon Tail is weak but less risky, has some nice phazing and can get rid of Skarmory before he whirlwinds you (since he walls you otherwise). Substitute might be good here too though, or even Sludge Wave for fairies. I'm not sure though. edit: Wait, Extremespeed is probably good in the last slot, since Zygarde isn't the fastest guy around.

 

[Clankenator007]

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 148 Spd / 252 Atk / 108 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Outrage

Basic bulky Dragon Dance set. Very similar to Dragonite but main Zygarde's main advantages over Dragonite are greater physical bulk post multi-scale, better defensive typing, STAB Earthquake, resistance to stealth rock, and ability to run adamant nature and still outspeed Mega-Gengar at +1. Lack of a non-locking physical dragon STAB is bad for this mon in a new tier filled with fairies but Zygarde can do his job as a bulky sweeper still very well.

 

[Kejmur]

Well there's always an option of running both Garchomp and Zygarde to soften up counters of each other. SD Garchomp or Mixed MegaGarchomp should be able to lure those Steels immune to EQ/Fairies, smash them hard/eliminate for Zygarde Coil/Dragon Dance sweep to finish things off. Kind of like good old Rayquaza/Salamence combo in Ubers. Also finding reliable Ice resists is not a problem, so in theory it works.

While in some way Zygarde is indeed outclassed by other dragons, using this guy in double dragon teams should work with proper support.

 

[Yamborski]

I'm not even counting OU with the information we have. UU looks to be a very interesting tier with old champions running around. Zygarde is looking to do some work with a bulky Sub Coil set in the lower tiers. Its offense is nothing special, but when you look in tandem with its defenses, it is very likely to take something out before it faints.

If you honestly think a Dragon / Ground type with those stats and moves will be UU then you are bad.

Zygarde is going to be OU easily. It's already being used on almost every team. It has better durability than Hippowdon and enough attack and speed to be relevant. It is absolutely a high tier threat that should not be ignored.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

With those stats it will be OU at best and possibly even UU since Garchomp is clearly better in pretty much every way; bulky sets have marginally less physical bulk but have Rough Skin to deter physical attackers, and it has far more power and speed while having similar special bulk. Assuming the stats given by the OP are true, anyone using this - which has a useless ability for OU anyway - over Garchomp is just flat-out moronic, since it offers nothing which isn't outclassed by its offensively-inclined brethren. If it wants to be the bulky dragon it is obviously trying to be and distance itself from Chomp, its stats better be way above these.

It may be banned to BL if it goes to UU like Kyurem was if nothing there can really handle it, but base 100 attack is not what it used to be, especially considering this thing's lack of setup and poor movepool, and ice types / faster dragons / fairies can easily KO it. Honestly I'd rather use Flygon than this if these stats are about right, since that at least has a decent movepool and speed, and a niche as a U-turning dragon.

 

[NotSoClutch]

With those stats it will be OU at best and possibly even UU since Garchomp is clearly better in pretty much every way; bulky sets have marginally less physical bulk but have Rough Skin to deter physical attackers, and it has far more power and speed while having similar special bulk. Assuming the stats given by the OP are true, anyone using this - which has a useless ability for OU anyway - over Garchomp is just flat-out moronic, since it offers nothing which isn't outclassed by its offensively-inclined brethren. If it wants to be the bulky dragon it is obviously trying to be and distance itself from Chomp, its stats better be way above these.

It may be banned to BL if it goes to UU like Kyurem was if nothing there can really handle it, but base 100 attack is not what it used to be, especially considering this thing's lack of setup and poor movepool, and ice types / faster dragons / fairies can easily KO it. Honestly I'd rather use Flygon than this if these stats are about right, since that at least has a decent movepool and speed, and a niche as a U-turning dragon.

Actually, zygarde has two of the best boosting moves in the game in coil and dragon dance. With togekiss likely moving up to OU, the accuracy boost of coil to stone edge is really helpful and Zygarde has just enough speed to likely ohko togekiss before anything happens. Zygarde also has better physical bulk than garchomp and coil boosts its defense as well.

 

[Yamborski]

With those stats it will be OU at best and possibly even UU since Garchomp is clearly better in pretty much every way;

What part of "it has Dragon Dance" can't you people understand. Coil and Extremespeed too for what it's worth. Oh, and defenses that surpass Hippowdon? Yeah, this thing is good. Really really good. I don't know if it will be top tier OU or not, but it is absolutely not outclassed by Garchomp. Not even close.

 

[azureleaf17]

With those stats it will be OU at best and possibly even UU since Garchomp is clearly better in pretty much every way; bulky sets have marginally less physical bulk but have Rough Skin to deter physical attackers, and it has far more power and speed while having similar special bulk. Assuming the stats given by the OP are true, anyone using this - which has a useless ability for OU anyway - over Garchomp is just flat-out moronic, since it offers nothing which isn't outclassed by its offensively-inclined brethren. If it wants to be the bulky dragon it is obviously trying to be and distance itself from Chomp, its stats better be way above these.

It may be banned to BL if it goes to UU like Kyurem was if nothing there can really handle it, but base 100 attack is not what it used to be, especially considering this thing's lack of setup and poor movepool, and ice types / faster dragons / fairies can easily KO it. Honestly I'd rather use Flygon than this if these stats are about right, since that at least has a decent movepool and speed, and a niche as a U-turning dragon.

Seriously... even though it's been a while (two weeks-ish?) since release and there's most like going to be a Pokemon Z (in which Zygarde might get some super-awesome alternate form with stats through the roof) I'm not sold that 600 BST is accurate for what's supposed to be the leader of the Gen VI legendary trio. Has someone double-checked this?

 

[ImAwesome2]

This thing might even be bad enough to have a home in UU. If not it'll get an eternal sentence to BL like Kyurem in Gen 5. The only real redeemable set that isn't done better by something else is a Coil/Dragon Tail set. Base 100 Atk and 95 Spd are not exactly super impressive.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

What part of "it has Dragon Dance" can't you people understand. Coil and Extremespeed too for what it's worth. Oh, and defenses that surpass Hippowdon? Yeah, this thing is good. Really really good. I don't know if it will be top tier OU or not, but it is absolutely not outclassed by Garchomp. Not even close.

You want a Bulky Dragon Dancer? 'Coz there is this thing called Dragonite, which has much more power and more coverage moves, and can go mixed more effectively, and at full HP has way more bulk, and also has XSpeed. The ONLY thing you are really getting with Zygarde that Dragonite wants is a resistance to SR and the pretty rare t-wave, but considering how Defog works now (and with the advent of Mega Blastoise), SR is easier than ever to keep off the field; Dnite also boasts an immunity to Spikes and the new Spider Web which could be significant.

Coil is interesting and certainly unique among dragons, and could be its defining niche overall... but it won't help its cause much when powerful special attackers outspeed it and take advantage of that unboosted Sped Def with Moonblast / Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse.

 

[Yamborski]

You want a Bulky Dragon Dancer? 'Coz there is this thing called Dragonite, which has much more power and more coverage moves, and can go mixed more effectively, and at full HP has way more bulk, and also has XSpeed. The ONLY thing you are really getting with Zygarde that Dragonite wants is a resistance to SR and the pretty rare t-wave, but considering how Defog works now (and with the advent of Mega Blastoise), SR is easier than ever to keep off the field; Dnite also boasts an immunity to Spikes and the new Spider Web which could be significant.

Coil is interesting and certainly unique among dragons, and could be its defining niche overall... but it won't help its cause much when powerful special attackers outspeed it and take advantage of that unboosted Sped Def with Moonblast / Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse.

Stab Earthquake.
Dragon Dance.
Extremespeed.
Incredible physical bulk. Easily accumulates multiple Dragon Dances.
Only needs 152 speed neutral nature to outrun base 130s at +1 (and everything at +2) meaning it can invest in bulk.
Unlike Dnite it doesn't give a fuck about Stealth Rocks
Unlike Garchomp it can boost its speed and has Extremespeed to defeat a damaged Mamoswine, or faster scarfer (or simply have the utility of priority when not sweeping).
Unlike Dnite it is immune to Thunder Wave.

It is not outclassed. Merely different. It combines some of the best traits of Garchomp and Dragonite. One downside is the lower attack stat but due to Dragon Dance it can afford to run Adamant. Adamant Zygarde hits with 91% the power of Jolly Garchomp so the difference isn't as big as it looks.