Aegislash
Greninja
Goodra
Malamar
Pangoro
Talonflame
Greninja
Goodra
Malamar
Pangoro
Talonflame
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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I think proponents of Mega Venusaur are forgetting the fact that as it is, Venusaur already struggles with 4-moveslot syndrome. It's going to be hard to keep it alive and give it the coverage it needs to not be setup fodder. Venusaur may have fit in nicely to Gen V as a rain counter, but that position isn't as necessary anymore. It's going to be getting walled by things like Heatran and Dragonite, and the nerf to Hidden Power doesn't help that at all. I think the best set for Mega Venusaur will probably be Giga Drain, Earthquake, Sludge Bomb, and Sleep Powder. Still, Venusaur is going to have a hard time with steel types and finding opportunities to restore its HP. Perhaps it would pair up nicely with a Wish user.
A man/woman after my own heart i was just about to say this lol. Do i think Megacham will be OU nope but he'll wreck house in UU with Sub, BulletPunch, Drainpunch, and Zenheadbutt/elemental punch
It doesn't work that way. Pure Power doubles the actual stat, not the base stat.
Adamant MegaMedicham has a maximum 328 attack, which when doubled is 656. That's the equivalent of a fully invested 249 base. That's also roughly the equivalent of 179 base with a LO, so MegaMedicham is slightly weaker than a LO Deoxys-A.
like Plopper said you are mistaking how Pure Power. Even then however it is still a beauty of a pokemon though I only suspect it to go to UU
But who's going to seriously try to OHKO a base 150 special wall even with specs? Unless Goodra is weakened it's a poor play. And, even then, if you try to switch into Latios it becomes readily obvious Goodra is running a tank set. He can be a good bulky attacker with a respectable 100 / 110 offenses but saying "excellent" with his crippling shortcoming compared to other OU mixed attackers and dedicated walls is difficult. Gooey is a good ability, but I only see it being of any threatening use in setting up for late-game sweeps. Assault Vest looks very enticing, but you're giving up leftovers and at that point Goodra needs maintenance from his team to stay a constant thorn in your opponent's side.
It'll have a niche in OU. I won't deny that. But it's just lacking so many staple variables that make an OU wall reliable.
I don't see Goodra in OU simply because its whole package doesn't mesh. Lowering speed on Physical attacks? That'd be great if it had a high defense. Sap Sipper lost quite a bit of its edge now that Grass-types are immune to Spore and other Powdery moves, though I can see it fulfilling a niche for that role.
Klefki is pretty much in the same boat as Sableye. Although Prankster makes it a fantastic Spikes lead, the inability to prevent others from setting up on it (Taunt) makes it risky to use. Furthermore, most sets I see run Foul Play, and compared to other common users of Foul Play, it is significantly weaker (No STAB). Finally, with the new buff to Defog (supposedly), I don't know whether hazards will be as widespread in this meta as it has been in previous generations.
In case you're wondering what the Defog buff is, Defog now removes hazards on both sides of the field.
Venusaur is still the best arguably the best sun sweeper in the game, but due to the weather nerf, Venusaur's role has change from sweeper to tank or wall. Having solid defenses, only two weaknesses, three moves (Giga Drain, Leech Seed, and Synthesis) to make up for lack of recovery, very good offenses for a bulky 'mon, and immunities to a lot of status moves is very, very good. Is it going to be top-tier Mega Evolution? Probably not, but it'll probably be the best Mega Evolution for the stall teams that have been made much more viable this generation — you can check out the Venusaur thread to see what people are saying about it.
Zygarde is mysterious, he could be garchomp's defensive version, but it face stiff competition from dragonite as a bulky dragon dancer with extreme speed. He still has a niche: it's typing still leaves him x4 weak to ice but gives him stealth rock resistance and he does not loose half his bulk by switching on them. Yet we have to see how other hazzards will impact the game. If defog becomes popular spikes and TS will most likely drop in usage, yet we face stiky web. Will it get popular? Beside hazzards, he get elecrtic immunity, screw you thunder wave, but loses wataer and grass resist. Worth it? Furthermore he has lower attack, 100 is far from impressive, but has stab earthquake (does he leanr it?). Maybe not sure overused, but could have a niche.
I find Aegislash to be overhyped. He most likely will start as an OU pokemon, great typing, nice ability perfect neutral coverage with sacred sword and stab priority. Add sword dance, automize and king's shield mind games and you get a very good pokemon here. Yet the terrible speed lives him prone to whatever is not killed by shadow sneak and he will fear taunt a lot. Furthermore the lack of strong stab moves compromises his great offensive stats.
Goodra, the pokemon who is one generation late. I can only imagine what che could be with politoed and hydratation. And a sap sipper once in a while to shut breloom up. Now we no longer have permanent rain, so hydratation will not be that usefull, note he can learn rain dance however, and spore is resisted by any grass type. Yet the white dragon still has a lot to say. That great special defence, nice special attack, good speed for a defensive pokemon, very nice movepool and gooey is an underrated ability. Your terrakion, or whatever physical hard hitter you have will think twice before having lowered speed, leaving them prone to revenge killing. I belive he is one of the best candidates to an overused spot.
Geninja is another overestimated pokemon in my opinion. Great speed and protean sure are good, but that defences are just awfull, as even strong resisted hits will put a dent in him. and if metagame will shift, as many people think, toward bulk his attacking stats are just to low, no matter the stab. Firthermore, as I said before, I belive spikes and TS will get less usage. I think if the ninja frog gets a place into ou he will sit in a similar position to fith generation infernape: good pokemon overall, but with many, better option to choose.
Noivern is in a similar situation. Great speed, a nice boosted infiltrator ability, and a good movepool are all for good, but with attacking stats below base 100 he will not leave a dent. Sure, he has great base powered moves, but we still have all the fith generation offensive mons, and they hit harder. Much harder. And with megaevolutions bringing more bulk to the game, and new bulky pokemon, noivern is left behind. At list he is, toghether with crobat, non-mega gengar's nightmare.
Maybe hawlcha has something to say. Good typing with awsome stab combination, sword dance as a boosting move, nice speed, u-turn is just good, encore could give him time to boost, hone clows boosts his attack less than sword dance but helps high jump kick's accuracy issue, acrobatic hits very hard with a flying gem boost and umburden will just benefit from it. He also get roost and bulk up to give him some longevity. And he also has mold breaker. He does not benefit too much from it, but he can ignore sturdy at least, and sturdy is common mostly on steel and rock type that are weak to fighting moves.
Gogoat with grass pelt and grass terrein? Surely giving free lefrovers to the opponent is bad, but depending on how much his defences increase it can be a sturdy monsters with that good HP. Firthermore the boos on grass moves is all for him to enjoy. Not sure if viable, but worth a shot.
I think that's all for the notable new, non mega pokemon. Everyone else has too many flaws. Sylveon and Florges have low speed and terrible physical bulk, and I belive scizor and lucario, mega lucario even if not uber, will be everywher with theire steel stab. Dragalge low HP and terrible speed lives him behind too many OU 'mons. He does not even have a solid ability to rely on. Malamar is not bad as well, and contrary superpower is just sweet, but his BST just leaves him behind the monsters of overuse. And everyone else I belive lacks too much in typing, BST or ability to be effective in the overused environment.
I find Aegislash to be overhyped. He most likely will start as an OU pokemon, great typing, nice ability perfect neutral coverage with sacred sword and stab priority. Add sword dance, automize and king's shield mind games and you get a very good pokemon here. Yet the terrible speed lives him prone to whatever is not killed by shadow sneak and he will fear taunt a lot. Furthermore the lack of strong stab moves compromises his great offensive stats.
Goodra, the pokemon who is one generation late. I can only imagine what che could be with politoed and hydratation. And a sap sipper once in a while to shut breloom up. Now we no longer have permanent rain, so hydratation will not be that usefull, note he can learn rain dance however, and spore is resisted by any grass type. Yet the white dragon still has a lot to say. That great special defence, nice special attack, good speed for a defensive pokemon, very nice movepool and gooey is an underrated ability. Your terrakion, or whatever physical hard hitter you have will think twice before having lowered speed, leaving them prone to revenge killing. I belive he is one of the best candidates to an overused spot.
Geninja is another overestimated pokemon in my opinion. Great speed and protean sure are good, but that defences are just awfull, as even strong resisted hits will put a dent in him. and if metagame will shift, as many people think, toward bulk his attacking stats are just to low, no matter the stab. Firthermore, as I said before, I belive spikes and TS will get less usage. I think if the ninja frog gets a place into ou he will sit in a similar position to fith generation infernape: good pokemon overall, but with many, better option to choose.
Noivern is in a similar situation. Great speed, a nice boosted infiltrator ability, and a good movepool are all for good, but with attacking stats below base 100 he will not leave a dent. Sure, he has great base powered moves, but we still have all the fith generation offensive mons, and they hit harder. Much harder. And with megaevolutions bringing more bulk to the game, and new bulky pokemon, noivern is left behind. At list he is, toghether with crobat, non-mega gengar's nightmare.
Maybe hawlcha has something to say. Good typing with awsome stab combination, sword dance as a boosting move, nice speed, u-turn is just good, encore could give him time to boost, hone clows boosts his attack less than sword dance but helps high jump kick's accuracy issue, acrobatic hits very hard with a flying gem boost and umburden will just benefit from it. He also get roost and bulk up to give him some longevity. And he also has mold breaker. He does not benefit too much from it, but he can ignore sturdy at least, and sturdy is common mostly on steel and rock type that are weak to fighting moves.
Gogoat with grass pelt and grass terrein? Surely giving free lefrovers to the opponent is bad, but depending on how much his defences increase it can be a sturdy monsters with that good HP. Firthermore the boos on grass moves is all for him to enjoy. Not sure if viable, but worth a shot.
I think that's all for the notable new, non mega pokemon. Everyone else has too many flaws. Sylveon and Florges have low speed and terrible physical bulk, and I belive scizor and lucario, mega lucario even if not uber, will be everywher with theire steel stab. Dragalge low HP and terrible speed lives him behind too many OU 'mons. He does not even have a solid ability to rely on. Malamar is not bad as well, and contrary superpower is just sweet, but his BST just leaves him behind the monsters of overuse. And everyone else I belive lacks too much in typing, BST or ability to be effective in the overused environment.
Definitely.
Heck, Mega Mawile is the bane of a LOT of Ubers, at least that's what the Wifi tells me! She has easily destroyed all the Yveltal, Xerneas, Mewtwos and other stuff thrown at her.
LOL at Aegislash sword dance. It has 50 Speed!!!. Its strongest is unSTAB sacred sword. 150 attack means nothing with 90BP
Zygarde beats Garchomp with Dragon Dance and bulk. Not outclassed in anyway
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I think he might go back to Gen IV role in UU as a versatile Pokemon (SD sweeper, LO sweeper, LO tank, SubSeed). Venusaur was OP as hell in Gen IV UU, and if it doesn't make the OU cut this gen, his MegaEvo is going to be just as deadly as it was Gen IV.
I guess both Greninja and Aegislash are pretty much guaranteed to start their days in OU, not necessarily because they are so good, but because "everybody" will use them as they appear to be the best non-legendary new 'mons of Gen. VI. Whether that holds truth or not remains to be seen, but I think they will break the required usage barrier early on, then fall to a more appropriate rank as time goes by.
For many of the same reasons, Goodra and Dragalgae might make it, or they might not, it's mostly a game of chance. I can't see either residing in the OU tier for the entire generation, though.
The thing with OU is that it shrinks for every generation, relative to the amount of Pokémon available. The 69 new Gen. VI Pokémon will have to compete with about 600 existing Pokémon for a place in Standard play, there are only so many slots available (swinging back and forth around 50, I believe), and as the lucky 50 make up a smaller and smaller part of the available Pokémon, the requirements for "making the cut" become tighter and tighter. If you pick the 50 highest among 650 random numbers, then add 70 more numbers and pick the top 50 again, the average value of those top 50 will be higher than the first top 50 (or the same, though that's extremely unlikely). But not many of the 70 new numbers will be among the highest 50. Add Mega Evolutions and Uber dropouts into the equation, and things get even more ugly for the newcomers.
In short, there aren't that many surefire OU candidates among the all-new Pokémon this generation. There's stiff competition, and relative to the other generations, Gen. VI has a smaller pool of Pokémon to pick its "champions" from. I can't see more than 3-5 all-new Pokémon staying OU this generation. Most of the pre-existing OU Pokémon are also, to say it bluntly, very good at what they do. It will take a bit to push them out of their OU niches. They would either have to be outperformed at their current task or rendered obsolete by metagame shifts.
On the other hand, with the power level of OU rising, so will the power level of UU. I think it will be interesting to see how it turns out down there. We might end up with fun tiers all the way to the bottom. I mean, even Beedrill got a boost this generation. It'll be fun to see how he does when NU settles.
For many of the same reasons, Goodra and Dragalgae might make it, or they might not, it's mostly a game of chance. I can't see either residing in the OU tier for the entire generation, though.
The thing with OU is that it shrinks for every generation, relative to the amount of Pokémon available. The 69 new Gen. VI Pokémon will have to compete with about 600 existing Pokémon for a place in Standard play, there are only so many slots available (swinging back and forth around 50, I believe), and as the lucky 50 make up a smaller and smaller part of the available Pokémon, the requirements for "making the cut" become tighter and tighter. If you pick the 50 highest among 650 random numbers, then add 70 more numbers and pick the top 50 again, the average value of those top 50 will be higher than the first top 50 (or the same, though that's extremely unlikely). But not many of the 70 new numbers will be among the highest 50. Add Mega Evolutions and Uber dropouts into the equation, and things get even more ugly for the newcomers.
In short, there aren't that many surefire OU candidates among the all-new Pokémon this generation. There's stiff competition, and relative to the other generations, Gen. VI has a smaller pool of Pokémon to pick its "champions" from. I can't see more than 3-5 all-new Pokémon staying OU this generation. Most of the pre-existing OU Pokémon are also, to say it bluntly, very good at what they do. It will take a bit to push them out of their OU niches. They would either have to be outperformed at their current task or rendered obsolete by metagame shifts.
On the other hand, with the power level of OU rising, so will the power level of UU. I think it will be interesting to see how it turns out down there. We might end up with fun tiers all the way to the bottom. I mean, even Beedrill got a boost this generation. It'll be fun to see how he does when NU settles.
ariariadne
formerly Reinfleche
Did you forget entirely about Iron Head? Swords Dance Scizor is not much stronger with Bug Bite than Aegislash with Iron Head at +2 (it might be weaker? I'm lazy), and nobody thinks that's a joke.
I don't get why people think Aegislash's speed is a bad thing. If it's slower, which it should be, it takes hits with Shield stance, then hits hard back with Iron Head or whatever in Sword stance. It can then use King's Shield to get into Shield stance again when it needs to take a hit, Shadow Sneak when applicable, rinse and repeat. Predictable? Sure, but being predictable hasn't stopped plenty of things from being OU. Being predictable doesn't really matter if you're good enough at your job, and Aegislash seems pretty good at its job. It's not the greatest thing ever, but it works.
Aegislash is terrible.. How can anyone think he is worth OU! The most common attacking move in the game - Earthquake - does not make contact (so it isn't affected by King's Shield) and yet pretty much every user of it will OHKO him with it even in defensive stance. Not to mention Special attackers with fire attacks, dark pulse, shadow ball.. I mean come on this pokemon is horrid.
T-Tar faints to any fighting type attack, while also being weak to water, ground (including Quake), and grass, yet T-tat is an incredibly powerful pokemon.
Yeah right, I'm mean being weak to 4 types is far too much, especially since it only resist/is immune to like... what was it.. oh yeah 12
T-Tar is powerful due to setting up sandstorm and his pursuit trapping abilities and he can safely switch in on many pokes and cause problems
Aegislash is crippled by almost every pokemon though..
Utility/tank - He has a huge weakness to status
Physical attacker - Earthquake. Either that or it becomes a prediction war with set up moves.
Special attacker - They would have to be pretty bad if they can't OHKO him
The only thing he can switch in on really are choiced pokes into something he likes taking. Giving him a free turn to set up swords dance. This is great, but there are WAY more unstoppable pokemon in OU that fill this role already.
Aegislash will do great in UU/RU where pokemon don't present as much of an offensive threat to him and he can survive a few hits
Aegislash is crippled by almost every pokemon though..
Utility/tank - He has a huge weakness to status
Physical attacker - Earthquake. Either that or it becomes a prediction war with set up moves.
Special attacker - They would have to be pretty bad if they can't OHKO him
The only thing he can switch in on really are choiced pokes into something he likes taking. Giving him a free turn to set up swords dance. This is great, but there are WAY more unstoppable pokemon in OU that fill this role already.
Aegislash will do great in UU/RU where pokemon don't present as much of an offensive threat to him and he can survive a few hits
I really hope you are right so I get the chance to play with Aegislash in OU with luxury. I mean lets not ignore the fact that Ghost is one of the best offensive typings now and it has access to shadow sneak.
TTar?
Pursuit?
so lets forget that kings shield decreases TTar atk by two stages...not to mention sacred sword is a ohko. Physical attackers end up becoming set up bait for Aegislash. People forget you're not fighting a 60/150/60/150 pokemon. Rather a 150/150/150/150 because of the uniqueness of his ability.
Ofcourse, he has counters. Gliscor, Lando-T, bulky grounds. but guess what. ALL physical attackers have issues with these pokemons.
I wasn't saying Ttar was a counter. I was replying to an earlier post saying ttar was good despite his type weaknesses.
There are a lot of drops from Ubers this gen due to the weather nerf such as the previously mentioned Lando-I and Tornadus-T.
For old new OU Pokemon, Togekiss and Azumarill are moving up for sure. I also feel Houndoom might see some more use because of its ability to completely wreck every single wall duo that doesn't include Blissey/Chansey. Crobat is moving up due to Infiltrator and Poison buff. Kingdra if Swift Swim is allowed with Drizzle might see some play. I feel Nidoking might see some light this gen too. Empoleon is looking pretty good too with Defog, solid typing and good bulk. It's movepool makes it pretty unpredictable too with SubPetaya, Agility, Specs, Swords Dance+Defiant (with Sticky Web up...), Specially Defensive and Bulky attackers all being strong sets.
For old new OU Pokemon, Togekiss and Azumarill are moving up for sure. I also feel Houndoom might see some more use because of its ability to completely wreck every single wall duo that doesn't include Blissey/Chansey. Crobat is moving up due to Infiltrator and Poison buff. Kingdra if Swift Swim is allowed with Drizzle might see some play. I feel Nidoking might see some light this gen too. Empoleon is looking pretty good too with Defog, solid typing and good bulk. It's movepool makes it pretty unpredictable too with SubPetaya, Agility, Specs, Swords Dance+Defiant (with Sticky Web up...), Specially Defensive and Bulky attackers all being strong sets.
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