[QC Ready 0/3] Gengar

[CrobatFTW]

REGULAR GENGAR STARES INTO YOUR SOUL

RIP Mega Gengar...
​

[Pros]
<ul>
<li>Gengar is just as good as ever; it is deadly and unpredictable.</li>
<li>Gengar is a great Fighting- and Fairy-Type check thanks to Ghost- and Poison-Type respectively.</li>
<li>A 130 SpA backed by a great 110 Speed allows it to threaten most OU Pokemon.</li>
<li>Dual STAB, Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, plus good coverage moves provide unpredictability.</li>
<li>The team preview helps it with scouting of faster Pokemon and priority.</li>
<li>It is immune to Spikes and Sticky Web.</li>
<li>It functions great with Substitute, Destiny Bond, and Taunt as a possible Anti-Lead.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]
<ul>
<li>It is quite frail.</li>
<li>Hidden Power Fire and Ice were both nerfed, leaving Gengar more wary of Scizor and other Dragons.</li>
<li>It's weak to Pursuit.</li>
<li>It hates most priority, especially Sucker Punch and Scizor's Bullet Punch.</li>
<li>Gengar just misses Starmie and Greninja with its Speed.</li>
</ul>

name: Standard
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Substitute / Protect
move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Levitate
item: Black Sludge / Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
nature: Timid

<p>This is a standard set similar to 5th Gen, but using Sludge Bomb for strong STAB and a useful super effective move against Fairy-Types. Shadow Ball is for STAB and Ghost-Types and Sludge Bomb is for stronger STAB and Fairy-Types. Substitute could be used on switches to gain an advantage, but Protect allows better Pursuit vs. Bullet Punch scouting of Pokemon like Scizor. Focus Blast is usually better for Pokemon like Tyranitar, but Hidden Power Fire, despite its reduction, will hit x4 weak targets such as Scizor and Ferrothorn harder. Black Sludge is usually better with Substitute, but Life Orb could still be used. Protect is usually better with Life Orb.</p>

<p>Gengar usually likes being paired with strong physical attackers, especially Fighting-Types, in order to take on its pink blob menaces: Chansey and Blissey. Gengar works well with strong physical walls that can take on most priority, such as Skarmory or Gliscor. In order to make 2HKOs into OHKOs, Gengar also appreciates Stealth Rocks and Spikes support, which Ferrothorn can set up well. Both have pretty good synergy due to Gengar's Fighting-Type resistance. Sticky Web support is also welcomed as it allows Gengar to outspeed the likes of Greninja, Starmie, and many Choice Scarf users. Galvantula is usually your best bet at setting up Sticky Web.</p>

name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Trick
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Levitate
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
nature: Timid

<p>With a great 110 Speed, Gengar makes a great, yet unexpected Choice Scarf User. Shadow Ball is for STAB and hits Ghost-Types hard. Sludge Bomb is for stronger neutral STAB and for Fairy-Types. Hidden Power Ice smashes x4 weak Dragons, but Trick is useful for crippling Pokemon such as Eviolite Chansey or Blissey. Focus Blast is largely for Tyranitar and hits Steel-Types generally well, so usually it's a best choice in the last slot. Thunderbolt might be useful over Hidden Power Ice or Focus Blast, especially outside of simulator play, but usually Sludge Bomb suffices against bulky waters. Gyarados, however, will not enjoy taking a Thunderbolt.</p>

<p>This set plays a bit differently than the standard Gengar set, as it is a bit weaker since it lacks a Life Orb and Black Sludge. The focus of the set is to revenge kill by outspeeding major threats on the opponent's team. For this reason, any entry hazards are recommended. Since Gengar lacks priority, it still hates Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet, making Ferrothorn a great partner. Rotom-W, especially physically bulky variants, take also most of those priority attacks well. Pursuit users are the vain of this set's existence, so exercise caution when looking at the Team Preview and watch out for potential Pursuit users. Scizor has both a priority Bullet Punch and Pursuit to scare Gengar away, so either a strong special attacker with Fire Blast or a Fire-Type will suffice in checking Scizor. Charizard, for example, works fairly well here, as it can take a Bullet Punch, Mega evolve on Scizor's switch, and set up a Dragon Dance.</p>


name: Focus Sash
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Destiny Bond
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast
ability: Levitate
item: Focus Sash
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
nature: Timid

<p>This more unorthodox Gengar set plays similarly to the now banished Mega Gengar, but it focuses on deceiving the opponent. It is more like an anti-lead. With the Focus Sash in tact, Gengar can suddenly counter priority, sweepers, and faster attackers more effectively. Shadow Ball is solid STAB, hitting most types for neutral damage. When Gengar has done its job, it can use Destiny Bond to usually net two KOs. Taunt is just for walls such as Blissey and Chansey, and it also allows Gengar to function as an anti-lead. In the last slot, Sludge Bomb is great STAB and hits Fairy-Type Pokemon, but Focus Blast hits Tyranitar and Steel-Types much harder. If you are in need of a Will-O-Wisp user, thanks to Gengar's speed and Will-O-Wisp's buffed 85% accuracy, it may be usable on this set. Be careful, however, because should Will-O-Wisp miss, Gengar will usually be knocked down to its Focus Sash early.</p>

<p>For this set, Taunt doesn't work only for special walls, but it also to lures threats into a Destiny Bond trap. While this set is effective, it should have Rapid Spin or Defog support, especially if you do not lead with Gengar, making Excadrill or Crobat good teammates. Rapid Spin and Defog support should not be used to just support Gengar, however, so other Stealth Rock weak Pokemon such as Talonflame, Dragonite, or Volcarona are also great teammates. This set does not like switching into Taunt, so that is something to be careful of. This Gengar set, without Stealth Rocks in play, usually does not mind taking one hit, but multi-hit moves will ruin the Focus Sash, making Ferrothorn a good partner to wreck any multi-hit move users take severe damage from Iron Barbs. Unfortunately, until PokeBank is released, Counter cannot be used on this set.</p>

name: Sub Utility
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Disable / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast / Sludge Bomb
ability: Levitate
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

<p>I typed this entire thing out and it didn't save. Site errors? I'll have a good description later...</p>


[Checks and Counters]
<p>Regular Gengar has its fair share of counters. Scizor has Bullet Punch and Pursuit to send it packing, while Hidden Power Fire has lost a lot of its use, so Scizor has less fear of Gengar. Any other priority will do major damage to it. This includes most Sucker Punches, Aqua Jet from Azumarill, Aegislash's Shadow Sneak, and Talonflame's Brave Bird. Special walls like Blissey and Chansey will be able to tank any hit from Gengar. Tyranitar, if defensive, will also be able to live one Focus Blast in the Sandstorm (if it hits of course!) and KO Gengar with a STAB Crunch or Pursuit. Dragonite does a good job of checking Gengar, especially due to Multiscale, and can often set up a Dragon Dance and KO. If Gengar doesn't have Hidden Power Fire / Ice or Destiny Bond, then Bulletproof Chesnaught completely shuts him down. Users of Infiltrator such as Crobat or Noivern will likely wreck Gengar's day. Most things that outspeed it will also be a problem; this includes Greninja, Starmie, Talonflame, Alakazam, and Choice Scarf users.</p>

 

[Bidoofs Crazy Videos]

Hmm, lookin' good! I really need to start making some teams, but I have to get IVs all figured out first.

 

[jake]

[Pros]
<ul>
<li>Monstrous Special Attack (170) with Shadow Tag, what's not to love here</li>
<li>Still a great 110 Speed</li>
<li>Great with Substitute, Destiny Bond, Disable, and Perish Song thanks to Shadow Tag</li>
<li>Amazing Revenge Killer</li>
</ul>

[Cons]
<ul>
<li>Cannot hold a Choice item</li>
<li>Suddenly affected by more hazards</li>
<li>Still weak to Pursuit</li>
<li>Hidden Power nerfed</li>
<li>Speed still misses Starmie and Greninja :(</li>
</ul>

Mega Gengar has base 130 Speed.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gengar.3489439/#post-4888910

 

[CrobatFTW]

Mega Gengar has base 130 Speed.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gengar.3489439/#post-4888910

Whoops. I remembered it being at an unconfirmed 110 in the very beginning during the leaks, I thought it was the same today. Sorry for not checking... Fixed.

 

[meddle]

Gengar has access to Dazzling Gleam. Might be worth a mention in Other Options. HP Ice of course hits most OU Dragons harder due to the x4 weakness but Dazzling Gleam gets coverage on Lati@s, Tyranitar, and Terrakion all in one move to ease prediction or if a team needs better insurance against those threats.

 

[Helias]

<li>Suddenly affected by more hazards</li>

I don't think you take damage from hazards again when you mega-evolve, so this point is incorrect.

 

[alexwolf]

You only need one Pros and Cons section and no Other Options.

 

[CrobatFTW]

Gengar has access to Dazzling Gleam. Might be worth a mention in Other Options. HP Ice of course hits most OU Dragons harder due to the x4 weakness but Dazzling Gleam gets coverage on Lati@s, Tyranitar, and Terrakion all in one move to ease prediction or if a team needs better insurance against those threats.

I'll keep those in mind! Thanks!

I don't think you take damage from hazards again when you mega-evolve, so this point is incorrect.

Other than Toxic Spikes, is it not hurt by Stick Web and Spikes since it does not have Levitate (Shadow Tag)?

You only need one Pros and Cons section and no Other Options.

Removed for now.

 

[Helias]

You are in your normal forme when you switch in and have to Mega Evolve on your turn, so you are unaffected by Spikes and Sticky Web.

 

[Bughouse]

You will however be affected every other time you come into battle later, and Mega Gengar does not appreciate Sticky Web. I don't think the extra Spikes damage matters all that much, but Sticky Web does. Note this as an advantage of Gengar over Mega Gengar in your (one) pros and cons.

 

[ginganinja]

-Can you switch the slashes around on the Perish Song set or whatever to below:

<p>Mega Gengar @ Gengarite<br />
Ability: Shadow Tag<br />
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def<br />
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)<br />
- Shadow Ball<br />
- Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast<br />
- Perish Song / Destiny Bond <br />
- Substitute / Taunt /p>

Personally, on a set like that, I always preffered Perish Song, since you get more mileage on it than using Destiny Bond. I guess the move / slash order can still be argued upon and all that, but I do think Perish Song deserves a first slash on the particular set you seem to be supporting.

-Slash or at the very least AC mention in WoW on the Offensive set. I had good success with the move, since you are often up against something you are outrunning, and burning stuff you might be unable to KO is very useful. WoW got its acc buffed as well to 85% so its not actually a terrabad move, and I like its utility in burning some of the slower pursuiters that I am seeing around, especially as the attack drop allows your next sweeper a good set up opportunity as well.

Lastly, on that Sub / Disable set on Mega Gengar, slash in Hypnosis next to Disable. Hypnosis is only a 60% chance at hitting, but the set itself is a super massive (BAN ME PLEASE) since you can sleep / sub, kill, repeat if you're lucky skilled enough to hit a couple of times.

 

[alexwolf]

You need only one Pros and Cons section.

Also, agreeing with everything ginganinja said.

 

[666lumberjack]

Perish Song should be the first set imo, guarenteed kill on almost any Gengar check slower than 130 base speed is better than anything else you can do really, I mean it's so easy to just lure in Tyranitar, Perish Song, Sub twice, it dies and you can bring Politoed in and fuck everything up with Swift Swimmers while your opponent cannot do shit. It's probably worth mentioning Protect as well because that lets you beat the things you normally can't 50% of the time, you wouldn't want to rely on it but it's pretty clutch against something like Scizor than can Bullet Punch you or U-turn out.

 

[Helias]

You will however be affected every other time you come into battle later, and Mega Gengar does not appreciate Sticky Web. I don't think the extra Spikes damage matters all that much, but Sticky Web does. Note this as an advantage of Gengar over Mega Gengar in your (one) pros and cons.

I am VERY sure that you turn back into normal Gengar when you switch out.

 

[Colonel M]

I am VERY sure that you turn back into normal Gengar when you switch out.

You remain as Mega Gengar when switching out. The effect of Mega Evolution remains permanent until the end of battle.

Also for a minor mention - Mega Gengar can remove Toxic Spikes off the field. It's actually nifty for some teams, though I would assume Mega Gengar wants a spinner once it lands on the ground.

 

[CrobatFTW]

-Can you switch the slashes around on the Perish Song set or whatever to below:

<p>Mega Gengar @ Gengarite<br />
Ability: Shadow Tag<br />
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def<br />
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)<br />
- Shadow Ball<br />
- Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast<br />
- Perish Song / Destiny Bond <br />
- Substitute / Taunt /p>

Personally, on a set like that, I always preffered Perish Song, since you get more mileage on it than using Destiny Bond. I guess the move / slash order can still be argued upon and all that, but I do think Perish Song deserves a first slash on the particular set you seem to be supporting.

-Slash or at the very least AC mention in WoW on the Offensive set. I had good success with the move, since you are often up against something you are outrunning, and burning stuff you might be unable to KO is very useful. WoW got its acc buffed as well to 85% so its not actually a terrabad move, and I like its utility in burning some of the slower pursuiters that I am seeing around, especially as the attack drop allows your next sweeper a good set up opportunity as well.

Lastly, on that Sub / Disable set on Mega Gengar, slash in Hypnosis next to Disable. Hypnosis is only a 60% chance at hitting, but the set itself is a super massive (BAN ME PLEASE) since you can sleep / sub, kill, repeat if you're lucky skilled enough to hit a couple of times.

Changes made.

Perish Song should be the first set imo, guarenteed kill on almost any Gengar check slower than 130 base speed is better than anything else you can do really, I mean it's so easy to just lure in Tyranitar, Perish Song, Sub twice, it dies and you can bring Politoed in and fuck everything up with Swift Swimmers while your opponent cannot do shit. It's probably worth mentioning Protect as well because that lets you beat the things you normally can't 50% of the time, you wouldn't want to rely on it but it's pretty clutch against something like Scizor than can Bullet Punch you or U-turn out.

OK, I changed that around. I added Protect as well to slashes, although it might be moved to OO later.

You remain as Mega Gengar when switching out. The effect of Mega Evolution remains permanent until the end of battle.

Also for a minor mention - Mega Gengar can remove Toxic Spikes off the field. It's actually nifty for some teams, though I would assume Mega Gengar wants a spinner once it lands on the ground.

Added.

I think this might be ready for QC? I finished writing about counters. If for some reason it is not I'll change the title back.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Okay here's a list of general things I want/prefer on this analysis before I decide to give it a stamp:

• Please remove the second Mega Gengar set. So far I'm not being impressed by it, since it lacks Leftovers recovery, and Disable is a rather bad idea without it. Additionally from what I'm perceiving, the set is relying on the possibility that the wall/defensive threat is offensively weak, and doesn't have anything else to do other than use a single coverage move. In practice, this is pretty untrue in cases such as Hippowdon, and Gengar generally has better things to do than mess around with just two coverage moves and two support moves that it might not even be using.
• Slash Protect in the last slot of the third Mega Gengar set; Protect allow Gengar to switch into things like Noivern, Starmie, and Alakazam, and successfully Mega Evolve and get the Speed boost before attacking. Protect also eases prediction against priority users, so Gengar can switch out or stay in and attack if needed.
• Put your pros and cons in full sentences.
• Add Talonflame to checks and counters, since it has priority Brave Bird and can stomach an attack from Gengar at full health save for Thunderbolt.

 

[alexwolf]

Add in the set comments of Perish Song Mega Gengar the possibility of using a set of Perish Song / Shadow Ball / Substitute / Protect, which is able to trap and KO anything that can't deal equal or more than 75% damage to it and doesn't have priority (Perish Song and take the first hit, then Sub, then Protect, and then switch out as the Pokemon gets KOed by Perish Song).

 

[doughboy]

Add in the set comments of Perish Song Mega Gengar the possibility of using a set of Perish Song / Shadow Ball / Substitute / Protect, which is able to trap and KO anything that can't deal equal or more than 75% damage to it and doesn't have priority (Perish Song and take the first hit, then Sub, then Protect, and then switch out as the Pokemon gets KOed by Perish Song).

Can't Protect --> tank ---> Protect accomplish the same three wait with no extra 25% taken. You could also save on the moveslot.

 

[alexwolf]

Can't Protect --> tank ---> Protect accomplish the same three wait with no extra 25% taken. You could also save on the moveslot.

You forgot the turn that you will use Perish Song. When using Perish Song you will have to take a hit, which means that you must stall 3 consecutive turns and Protect doesn't let you do this. Of course if you are MEvolving the turn you use Perish Song it is very possible that you will be forcing a switch and get to use Perish Song for free, but it is very possible that the opponent will bring in something that can deal more than 75% damage or OHKO you so it's not a reliable method.

 

[X5Dragon]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gengar.3489880/

Contains good discussions and might help fill some holes. In any case Perish Song / Shadow Ball / Substitute / Protect should definitely be listed as you can do several things with this, first of all you can trap Shadow Ball weak opponents and get rid of them, then proceed to Perish Stall or turn something into set up fodder in case Gengar dies before the last turn of the song.

Also, add Trick as a slash into the scarf set.

 

[CrobatFTW]

I made most of the changes, except I haven't written the sentences out yet. I'll do that tomorrow since I have to go now. But other than that (which of course I will do) I feel we need to fix the Choice Scarf slash. I don't think HP Fire is too useful, I said why in bold. HP Ice also might not be all that useful... to be honest, Icy Wind might even be better... but feel free to comment about that. I'll check this again tomorrow.

 

[Makaa]

Is perish song even legal pre-bank on gengar?

 

[Basics]

While it cannot switch directly in on Mega Gengar and must be weary of a possible Will-O-Wisp

Wary*

 

[Woodchuck]

This isn't in GP yet, but please, for the love of God, it's per se. Not "per say".