Sound based moves bypass Subsitute now, giving MegaGardevoir a reason to run Hyper Voice as its Fairy STAB.
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Pokémon Gardevoir
- Thread starter Halcyon.
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Yeah, that would be the case if Hyper Voice was available via tutor in X/Y (which I don't believe it is). Either way, once it's released, Gardevoir will finally have a reason to use its otherwise useless ability.
Well in 2 months once the Pokemon Bank opens one could always just tutor one it in BW2 and transfer it up.
Hyper Voice might get some use in Doubles for being a spread move, similarly to Heat Wave. While it competes with Sylveon's Hyper Voice, Mega-Gardevoir actually outdamages LO-Sylveon, albeit not by much. Sylveon probably operates better under Trick Room, being as slow as Jellicent, while a Modest Gardevoir is a bit more flexible with its middling speed. The main problem is that it takes away your valuable Mega slot.
Also, in doubles, the priority of the Mega works against Gardevoir because it cannot capitalize on Telepathy properly. Welp, Trace still works.
Also, in doubles, the priority of the Mega works against Gardevoir because it cannot capitalize on Telepathy properly. Welp, Trace still works.
What would be a good moveset or ev spread for Mega Gardevoir? Would it be better to go Timid and invest in offense and speed or Modest and try to make it as bulky as possible while trying to make use of that monstrous special attack with minimal investment still packing a punch? 4 Attacks or Calm Mind or Will-O-Wisp?
Psychic or Psyshock/ Moon Blast or Hyper Voice/Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball/Focus Blast looks promising, I think...
Psychic or Psyshock/ Moon Blast or Hyper Voice/Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball/Focus Blast looks promising, I think...
It's HP and Df are quite poor. I'd say either WoW or Substitute are mandatory if you want any longevity. Come in on a special attack and prepare to WoW the inevitable physical switch in. You're probably better off being faster than slower powerhouses and crippling them then you are trying to tank with those physical stats. There's also Thunder Wave though to compensate for that speed. Her SpA is so monstrous it'd be a shame to not run Modest to benefit from it but there are probably some pretty important pokes she at least wants to speed tie with... She can't run Leftovers or Lif Orb either. I'm thinking Dazzling Gleam/Focus Blast/WoW/Substitute. With Modest you'll be able to hit as hard as possible and Gleam and Blast give acceptable coverage. Switch in on a Dragon move and throw up a Sub. You can then attack or burn accordingly.
Gardevoir definitely looks BETTER than before, but not OU worthy. Its low defensives stats make it even lackluster at tanking many special attacks. I hacked a perfect EV/IV gardevoir in B/W2 and still struggled a lot of the time with it. Meanwhile an offensive route really only looks viable in mega form as a calm mind sweeper, but you'd better have eliminated or paralyzed ALL physical attackers because you can't scarf that 100 speed.
I could perhaps see it being more viable in doubles with tailwind and pixilated hyper voice.
I could perhaps see it being more viable in doubles with tailwind and pixilated hyper voice.
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It'll be the death of UU though.
Is she really better than sylveon? Like with sylveon you can be tanky like vaporeon and still have a mega slot.
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Something that hasn't been considered in this thread is that bulky Gardevoir will make a superb check to Lati@s. Immune to Draco Meteor / Pulse, resists Psyshock, and has great SpD to tank Surf. Just 252 HP is all Gardevoir needs to avoid a 3HKO from anything LO Latios can throw at her, while she can OHKO back with 252+ SpA Moonblast.
I'm absolutely in love with this Pokemon right now, using him to crush the Battle Maison.
I run him as a revenge killer after my lead Forretress, because he can generally only be killed by Sp. Attackers, so she makes a great follow up. This could be applied to any physical wall lead, like Skarmory, if you're not a fan of Forretress.
Running:
Mega Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Moveset:
Moonblast
Psychic / Psyshock
Focus Blast
Calm Mind / Thunderbolt
But between Moonblast, Psychic and Focus Blast, there's basically no Pokemon that you can't get at least Neutral damage on.
In her Mega form, her stats are coming out to be @ lv 50:
136/81/82/210/141/167
Non Mega are:
136/63/82/170/121/145
That 40 point increase in special attack is often the difference between 1HKO and 2HKO.
Meaning her only real issue is the her physical bulk is awful. But like I said, use her as a revenge killer on a physical wall.
Also, Trace is her clear best ability for a Mega build, since it gets changed when you Mega form, it's a free scout to see what ability your opponent is running, and gives you a free swap in Motor Drive, Storm Drain, etc.
I run him as a revenge killer after my lead Forretress, because he can generally only be killed by Sp. Attackers, so she makes a great follow up. This could be applied to any physical wall lead, like Skarmory, if you're not a fan of Forretress.
Running:
Mega Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Moveset:
Moonblast
Psychic / Psyshock
Focus Blast
Calm Mind / Thunderbolt
But between Moonblast, Psychic and Focus Blast, there's basically no Pokemon that you can't get at least Neutral damage on.
In her Mega form, her stats are coming out to be @ lv 50:
136/81/82/210/141/167
Non Mega are:
136/63/82/170/121/145
That 40 point increase in special attack is often the difference between 1HKO and 2HKO.
Meaning her only real issue is the her physical bulk is awful. But like I said, use her as a revenge killer on a physical wall.
Also, Trace is her clear best ability for a Mega build, since it gets changed when you Mega form, it's a free scout to see what ability your opponent is running, and gives you a free swap in Motor Drive, Storm Drain, etc.
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Now that I agree with, though. As a Gardevoir user, especially in UU B/W, I see almost no reason to run Gardevorite, as Pixilate doesn't do anything Moon Blast wouldn't. Sure, Gardevoirite boosts stats, but lefties is going to be a better support. While I fully accept the credibility and wondrousness of this set, the alternative I would do is based this set off of the D/P Weather Counter Gardevoir http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gardevoir as weather is never going away, and being back in OU, will have to face threats like DrizzleToed and DroughtTales, and if megastones are allowed, DroughtZard and a whole plethora of unfun things.
Gardevoir needs to run Will-O-Wisp to nullify other offensive threats, while sponging special defense, and possibly Psyshock, to deal with the number of preemptive poison-types that may get revamped, like Venusaur (and curse mega-venusaur is terrifying to face) or Speed-Boost Scoliopede.
I think Gardevoir herself (despite being my favorite pokemon) isn't going to be quite enough, and each set needs to be specialized as a compliment to others. Gardevoir will not be a sweeper per say, and shouldn't be used in place of a wall.
like if I was going to use a Donphan, I wouldn't worry about Heatran so much, and would focus my counters on Scizor/Mega-Scizor, or Gengar (who is also terrifying with a mega-evolution) in which case both Will-O and Psyshock would be needed.
Good to see Gardevoir is finally getting that buff she needs to be a competitive battler. And that traditional ballroom gown...absolutely stunning.
I've noticed people saying breloom can still be a threat to this. Are we all forgetting the mega-forms base 100 speed? That's more than a lot of uber pokemon. And much more than breloom. And with that psychic typing, getting a stab on a psychic move means she doesn't really have to fear poison types. Steel pokemon might be a problem, but focus blast could be able to settle that.
Although that defense could be considered a problem, a lot of physical attackers that pose a threat to her don't quite reach that speed. I think the best counter to a mega-gardevoir would actually be a Blissey. Toxic and softboiled to recover damage could really hinder Gardevoir, considering she doesn't really come with the physical moves to deal with Blissey. Either way though, I think Gardevoir now has a decent shot at OU.
I've noticed people saying breloom can still be a threat to this. Are we all forgetting the mega-forms base 100 speed? That's more than a lot of uber pokemon. And much more than breloom. And with that psychic typing, getting a stab on a psychic move means she doesn't really have to fear poison types. Steel pokemon might be a problem, but focus blast could be able to settle that.
Although that defense could be considered a problem, a lot of physical attackers that pose a threat to her don't quite reach that speed. I think the best counter to a mega-gardevoir would actually be a Blissey. Toxic and softboiled to recover damage could really hinder Gardevoir, considering she doesn't really come with the physical moves to deal with Blissey. Either way though, I think Gardevoir now has a decent shot at OU.
On the Mega version of CM Gardevoir, is there a Normal move with a higher BP to abuse pixilate?
So apparently Pixilate grants a 30% bonus to the Normal type moves that are converted to Fairy type moves. As Gardevoir can learn Hyper Voice via move tutor in BW2, this means that it now has access to a 117 BP Fairy type move that completely bypasses Substitutes with the new mechanics for sound moves. Combined with the Mega forme's excellent Base 165 SpA, this could be seriously threatening, and should probably become the standard for Mega-sets over Moonblast.
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Shadow Ball / Psyshock
item: Gardevoirite
ability: Pixilate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
117 BP Fairy STAB is nothing to sneeze at. :p
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Shadow Ball / Psyshock
item: Gardevoirite
ability: Pixilate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
117 BP Fairy STAB is nothing to sneeze at. :p
Is this true? It would allow for some fun sweeping sets with Echoed Voice, as it already reaches 104BP that way on the second turn, and a whopping 208 on the third turn.
Gardevoir is going to be doing the same thing she always does before switching into Mega Form: Serving as the best damn checks to Gyarados (lol Traced Intimidate), Jolteon (Lol Traced Volt Absorb), Thundurus (Volt Absorb), Heatran (Lol traced Flash Fire), and Magnezone (Lol Traced Magnet Pull), Gastrodon (Lol Traced Storm Drain), Vaporeon (Lol Traced Water Absorb).
Strangely enough, this means that proper Gardevoir usage is to remain in Normal-Gardevoir form until the opponent switches out. Flash Fire Gardevoir walls standard Heatran like no tomorrow, and Gardevoir can sit around and calm mind / wish all day. For proper "countering" of Gyarados, there is Thunderbolt. Shadow Ball / Moonblast for perfect coverage. 4th move can be anything, literally anything. Focus Blast for coverage, Calm Mind, Will o Wisp, T-Wave, Hypnosis, Wish, Memento, Encore. All are decent options.
Focus Blast is needed to beat Magnezone (which is now a scary switch in, as Gardevoir doesn't like that Flash Cannon anymore), but Gardevoir can now spam Shadow Ball against Heatran and probably win.
When the opponent switches out of his WALLed pokemon (Wanna see Thundurus use HP Ice on a Calm-Minded Gardevoir?), Gardevoir switches over to Mega Form and proceeds to own. Investment into Sp. Def and Sp. Atk seem optimal, although I haven't thought of spreads very well.
Strangely enough, this means that proper Gardevoir usage is to remain in Normal-Gardevoir form until the opponent switches out. Flash Fire Gardevoir walls standard Heatran like no tomorrow, and Gardevoir can sit around and calm mind / wish all day. For proper "countering" of Gyarados, there is Thunderbolt. Shadow Ball / Moonblast for perfect coverage. 4th move can be anything, literally anything. Focus Blast for coverage, Calm Mind, Will o Wisp, T-Wave, Hypnosis, Wish, Memento, Encore. All are decent options.
Focus Blast is needed to beat Magnezone (which is now a scary switch in, as Gardevoir doesn't like that Flash Cannon anymore), but Gardevoir can now spam Shadow Ball against Heatran and probably win.
When the opponent switches out of his WALLed pokemon (Wanna see Thundurus use HP Ice on a Calm-Minded Gardevoir?), Gardevoir switches over to Mega Form and proceeds to own. Investment into Sp. Def and Sp. Atk seem optimal, although I haven't thought of spreads very well.
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I would assume so since they would be considered Fairy due to Pixilate.
...but I've been wrong before.
...but I've been wrong before.
Is that the move that attacks through Subs? I wonder if Soundproof will become a thing because of that?
Fun fact: 80 HP EV MegaGardevoir survives Timid MegaGengar's Shadow Ball without hazards and always OHKO it with Psyshock. You need 240 EVs with Stealth Rock, though.
man where's Boomburst when we need it
It's not "a" move. Any sound move goes through Substitute now. But yes, both Echoed Voice and Hyper Voice ignore Substitute.
man where's Boomburst when we need it
I will admit, Sylveon and Clefable are the better spongers and Wish supporters. Will-O-Wisp is definitely better than Toxic though, Steel-types no doubt being more prevalent than ever with Fairies running around. The only Poke that is immune to both is Heatran, otherwise Will-O-Wisp is fair game is Fire types aren't very prevalent in the current meta-game. As far as a special sponge that can dish out damage, Gardevoir seems the better Poke.
It's Mega is also nice, if you run Wish/Protect on a set, which you should, Mega-Gard almost looks like it could forge that leftovers recovery. It's bulk is better there and speed picks up, but I feel there are more viable Megas. A Mega that can somewhat run Support is nice too though! :D
It's Mega is also nice, if you run Wish/Protect on a set, which you should, Mega-Gard almost looks like it could forge that leftovers recovery. It's bulk is better there and speed picks up, but I feel there are more viable Megas. A Mega that can somewhat run Support is nice too though! :D
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