Pokémon Banette

[Haruno]

Mawile has much better physical bulk, a ton of resistances and its just way stronger. Maxed MegaMawile is packing the equivelant of ~260 base attack. Not to mention a superior movepool and a cool pre-Mega ability.

You're thinking about it the wrong way, you're essentially trying to compare latios with gliscor. They do completely different things. Considering I mostly play ubers I'll be speaking from an ubers PoV. You won't send a banette in to sweep or to wall anything, you send it in as a check to pretty much the entire tier. With only 2 mons that see any type of usage threatening it, banette has one hard defined role as a subprotect mon + the ultimate answer to xerneas. Banette is incapable of wallbreaking like mawile can, while mawile is incapable of being as big a stall breaker as banette can. Don't believe me? Here's some random replays

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankubersbeta-58546880
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankubersbeta-58550835
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankubersbeta-58560216
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankubersbeta-58569256

Man wtf is a banette anyways. Fucking weak shit.

Anyways as you can see, banette doesn't or really it can't take advantage of that not so impressive 165 attack however it does have a hard defined role as a toxic staller. What seperates it from sableye? Well for one, it lacks recover but more importantly in exchange it has prankster destiny bond which is a more than fair trade off. The only two mons threatening banette in the slightest are mega/lucario with its bp and gira-o with shadow sneak. Meanwhile everything else is merciless as it cleans up lategame. Will banette be taking out whole teams singlehandedly? Of course not but it can definitely have a well defined role and excels at it.

 

[Wizarus]

TR is his home. Priority Destiny Bond is great. Priority Taunt is great. Priority period(Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch) is great, especially coming off a 165 ATK.

 

[pectus_Umbra]

People are right in the above comparison of mega mawvile. Generally speaking, you need either speed or bulk to be usable, and in the case of mawvile, if gets plenty of bulk, with high damage to go with it.

However, I do think that people are still writing off megabanette too soon. I wrote up a huge set with a post on page two that seems to have been almost entirely ignored, both in general criticism as well as requests for damage calculations.

While I do not think Megabanette will be *THE BEST* mega evo, it can most certainly fill a strong niche of being able to assassinate popular mega evos like megagengar with high physical attack while still being able to hand out priority status to cripple the enemy, and destiny bond mind games.

 

[Haruno]

People are right in the above comparison of mega mawvile. Generally speaking, you need either speed or bulk to be usable, and in the case of mawvile, if gets plenty of bulk, with high damage to go with it.

However, I do think that people are still writing off megabanette too soon. I wrote up a huge set with a post on page two that seems to have been almost entirely ignored, both in general criticism as well as requests for damage calculations.

While I do not think Megabanette will be *THE BEST* mega evo, it can most certainly fill a strong niche of being able to assassinate popular mega evos like megagengar with high physical attack while still being able to hand out priority status to cripple the enemy, and destiny bond mind games.

Build a team around spreading toxic/burns. Remove your opponent mons that threaten it, and then watch it easily do a 1:2 trade with its bullshit sub protect not to mention in ubers, few things threaten it in the slightest. Mega Mawile isn't anything special in ubers at least.

 

[pectus_Umbra]

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I admit, I saw your set before, but it made me jerk at the lack of an attacking move. still, if you're finding success with it, power to you!

My main barriers are that 1: I've never been super competitive. and 2: My experience is going to pretty much entirely revolve around X/Y play, rather than smogon sim play, so I adjust accordingly.

 

[Forsety]

However, I do think that people are still writing off megabanette too soon. I wrote up a huge set with a post on page two that seems to have been almost entirely ignored, both in general criticism as well as requests for damage calculations.

Waddling through a wall of text isn't pleasant and to be honest you could easily make the calculations yourself but if it bothers you that much.

+Atk 0 M-Banette Shadow Sneak vs Gengar = 85-101%
+Atk 252 M-Banette Shadow Sneak vs M-Gengar = 79-94%

In summary Shadow Sneak in any form is fine against vanilla Gengar though it'll probably simply Disable or kill you from behind a Sub and you have a snowball's chance in hell against Mega Gengar.

Glancing through the other points you make the main things I'd say are:-

1) Scizor doesn't tend to invest in speed unless it's one of those rare Acrobatics variations which will look increasingly rare this gen, you're prepping for a scenario you'll very rarely see if ever. The only scenario this would be relevant is doubles/VGC where speed Scizors are normal.

2) Shadow Sneak should be staple yes, Sucker Punch is honestly too situational for Banette's priority though some will disagree. I've summed up Gengar already, Starmie is the only relevant one where you are likely able to take an attack and cripple it for 75-89% whereas the results against Azumarill and Scizor are so pathetic they're not worth entertaining.

3) Pursuit has no place on Banette, it doesn't exactly bring infinite fear causing the opponent to switch. Sableye he is not.

4) Nobody denies Prankster D-Bond is the trump card the issue is Banette is fragile and slow and it needs to survive a turn for Prankster to even become relevant or come into play. You need a way to make Banette relevant during a turn without losing momentum and his options are less than pleasing.

5) There is so many things out there that does what you described just as well that aren't one trick ponies. It doesn't help either that the most dangerous physical sweeper right now in Gen 6 is actually Talonflame who doesn't care much for burn.

 

[alexwolf]

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Gunk Shot as an option for Mega Banette. It is it's stronger physical option and has a very handy 30% poison chance, while also OHKOing most Fairy-types.

 

[Impy]

Mega Banette is a little too situational for my tastes, but in the right situation it can effectively destroy at least one pokemon, and that pokemon can be ANY pokemon. Frail defenses and priority destiny bond should not be underestimated, be damn careful what you switch into Mega Banette.

 

[pectus_Umbra]

Waddling through a wall of text isn't pleasant and to be honest you could easily make the calculations yourself but if it bothers you that much.

First off, thank you very much for the feedback! Yes, I know it was a wall of text post, but what can I say, I was excited, and wrote all that I could think of. And I was actually working with a friend just today on the math via serebii damage equation, but I derped and included max defense stats on megagengar :P. It was just irking a bit to write all that and have no reply whatsoever. So thanks again! I cut your quote down for the sake of slimming down the post.

So, to draw from what you've stated:
1) Needs to be adamant to do what I need it to do (100% drop gengar before megaevo).
2) the following is okay, since speed scizor is rare enough that I don't have to consistantly worry about getting OHKO before the chance to do anything.
3) Damage is actually acceptable on my wanted targets, considering possibility of hazard/recoil damage, plus, running those numbers on megagengar also means good things against megaalakazam and megagarvevoir, who both have less hp and defense than megagengar.

So, having learned those things with your help, this is a bit of my response to your criticism.
1) The main focus of this set is to attempt to side-step banette's speed issues entirely by focusing on priority shadow sneak to turn on mega evo and enable prankster for priority status. This allows you to hurt otherwise potent sweepers that lack priority.
-The weakness of this set is you almost always have to open with shadow sneak. compared to other downsides that people willingly accept, such as choice-lock and life orb recoil, it's really not too large a weakness, as I see it.
2) While I admit, I'm only just turning my head to more competitive play, my reasoning for pursuit is multipurpose:
-Ensures that in a best case scenario of banette vs. gengar, I can ensure a OHKO on gengar with prediction. It also lets you tag other possible swaps with your high atk on the way out, like choice fighting.
-Having a non-priority attack is actually useful for this set, as it allows you to manipulate when you take your turn, so you can get extra time out of destiny bond.
--Follow up, pursuit has good potential with priority destiny bond. Assuming they don't want to trade, they will either perform some kind of set up/status, or try to switch out.

3) Now, if it does turn out that the enemy never switches out on banette, perferring to try and set up (maybe expecting sucker punch) then another status move can replace pursuit, tailored to meta.

4) As for Talonflame:
-While it is making a splash now, I would want to wait and see a bit more of what happens. Rocks are still a big deal.
-I did list thunder wave and taunt as possible replacements to WoW on purpose, since we don't know almost anything about the meta yet.
-Worst case, you just accept that if talonflame is a big deal, then people will figure out how to deal with it, and that's a mon besides megabanette. I can accept that, no problem.

 

[Je-Muzu]

Also it might help but in December it'll get access to Cotton guard again.

 

[Forsety]

So, having learned those things with your help, this is a bit of my response to your criticism.
1) The main focus of this set is to attempt to side-step banette's speed issues entirely by focusing on priority shadow sneak to turn on mega evo and enable prankster for priority status. This allows you to hurt otherwise potent sweepers that lack priority.
-The weakness of this set is you almost always have to open with shadow sneak. compared to other downsides that people willingly accept, such as choice-lock and life orb recoil, it's really not too large a weakness, as I see it.

I think you might have misinterpreted the MEvo mechanics judging from this. MEvo has the highest priority in a turn it is guaranteed to always go off, you don't have to open with Shadow Sneak to enable MEvo you could still easily just fire off status in your first turn only it'd be slow and give them a chance to end you without moving. The issue is more assuming worst case scenario they are strong enough to OHKO you or even worse Taunt you, all you can do before that happens is a fairly weak Shadow Sneak, Protect or just attack normally.

-Worst case, you just accept that if talonflame is a big deal, then people will figure out how to deal with it, and that's a mon besides megabanette. I can accept that, no problem.

Good policy and how you should build teams. Stick to what a Pokemon can specifically and let other team members handle the rest, I've already seen people take advantage of this winning matches by literally packing something specifically to break Talonflame, Stealth Rocks don't scare it off as much as most would like to think.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Gunk Shot as an option for Mega Banette. It is it's stronger physical option and has a very handy 30% poison chance, while also OHKOing most Fairy-types.

I literally just said that last page just a few posts ago.

But yes, Gunk Shot is very much viable on Banette being only slightly weaker than it's main STAB. It's useable now thanks to the accuracy buff making it very easy to score some KO's on some grass and fairies and gets good neutrality on everything else making ripe pickings for Shadow Sneak.

 

[Katakiri]

I fell in love with Mega Banette the moment I saw it and I've been hard at work building an OU set for it. I'd like to share my results with you all.

Banette (F) @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Shadow Sneak
- Phantom Force
- Will-O-Wisp
- Destiny Bond

I think Phantom Force is an extremely over-looked option. Banette can be made slower than most other Pokemon meaning that, even if they switch, they won't get to attack Banette until the turn after Banette attacks which is absolutely no issue thanks to Prankster Will-O-Wisp, Destiny Bond, Disable, etc. crippling the opponent before they can do so. A slow Phantom Force guarantees the foe will never have a Substitute and will be ripe for the Will-O-Wisp next turn; or Mega Banette can use priority Destiny Bond and either take out the opponent or start the cycle all over again with another Phantom Force. Being faster than standard Aegislash ensures Will-O-Wisp can cushion any damage it deals while Phantom Force leaves Aegislash unable to attack on the 2nd turn due to its Shadow Sneak being unable to hit the cloaked Banette while Phantom Force smashes through King's Shield if they attempt it.

Ghost is only resisted by Dark and the normal-type immunity is almost a non-issue with how rare they are; Pursuit would be an issue but priority Destiny Bond and Will-O-Wisp solves that nicely. The EVs may be adjusted to be more bulky one way or another, but the concept is the important part. Phantom Force may offer the opponent hazard turns, but packing Defog fixes that later.

Ideal team options: Stealth Rock for extra damage, Rapid Spin or Defog (assuming you can balance that and your own hazards), Heal Bell since any status ruins Phantom Force, U-Turn/Volt Switch to get Banette in safely for the first turn, Ferrothorn check/counter, Wish can come in handy as well.

Gimmicky team options: Banette could do with a little more bulk and power, so a Curse Baton Passed from something like Umbreon would be invaluable. Risky and costs a team slot, but invaluable nonetheless.

Key points:

• Slow Phantom Force
• Priority STAB & Status
• Slower than Brave Tyranitar, faster than Brave 0 Speed Aegislash for Will-O-Wisp/Destiny Bond fun
• Checks most Physical Mega Pokemon (Heracross, Lucario, Gyarados, etc.)
  
• Priority Destiny Bond + slow Phantom Force completely locks-down fast sweepers

Checks and Counters: Ferrothorn and Skarmory can set up all over Banette, Blissey walls and can Toxic Banette, Sableye generally isn't threatened and can Will-O-Wisp back, Taunt is an issue as well, any and all status puts a stop to Phantom Force since Banette has to roll green on 2 turns of paralysis to attack and other status will rack-up damage while cloaked.

I'm pretty happy with it so far. EVs cold use some optimization, but it's fine for the moment.

 

[FreeButter]

I'm not saying you can't burn it. that's completely valid. But I was trying to convey my feelings that the original poster of that was setting their sights too low.

What I was aiming was to make Banette have more options with his new Mega, I know the other sets work better but I was looking at other options that can help him. Since his Prankster is not up when he Mega-Evolves, that was the problem I was most concerned of. That is why I preferred to use a more offensive set with Speed investment. I know that threats such as Aegislash (love that mon) and Scizor can deal with Banette. I know the set that I posted that didn't have Destiny Bond, reason why is that I felt it'd be too predictable on it. Most players that I encountered attempt to stall it's PP to avoid it usually.

 

[pectus_Umbra]

I think you might have misinterpreted the MEvo mechanics judging from this. MEvo has the highest priority in a turn it is guaranteed to always go off, you don't have to open with Shadow Sneak to enable MEvo you could still easily just fire off status in your first turn only it'd be slow and give them a chance to end you without moving. The issue is more assuming worst case scenario they are strong enough to OHKO you or even worse Taunt you, all you can do before that happens is a fairly weak Shadow Sneak, Protect or just attack normally.


Good policy and how you should build teams. Stick to what a Pokemon can specifically and let other team members handle the rest, I've already seen people take advantage of this winning matches by literally packing something specifically to break Talonflame, Stealth Rocks don't scare it off as much as most would like to think.


I literally just said that last page just a few posts ago.

But yes, Gunk Shot is very much viable on Banette being only slightly weaker than it's main STAB. It's useable now thanks to the accuracy buff making it very easy to score some KO's on some grass and fairies and gets good neutrality on everything else making ripe pickings for Shadow Sneak.

Wait, let me just double-check: I was under the impression that a mon megaevolves as it's taking it's turn, but before it completes it's action. So you use the base mon's speed and ability to determine your turn still, correct? This is why I stress the need for priority for megabanette. Regular banette, as lovely a design as it is, is not going to last any kind of hit. You need those extra stats from mega evolving to have a prayer of being able to do anything. you need to make them die without moving, not die without accomplishing yourself.
I didn't mention this before either, but while shadow sneak is a weaker attack, megabanette actually has quite the high base attack, only losing in raw stat to megachomp, megaheracross, and ubers, though this doesn't count mons with pure power/huge power. tweaked properly, megabanette's base 165 should still give you some nice punch.

As for talonflame, having high speed+flying priority does ruin megabanette's day, but between that mon's own frail defenses and lower base attack do give it weaknesses of it's own to exploit. while it can do things, I think people are losing more to lack of experience with it yet.

As for gunk shot, my personal opinion is that while it is very strong, even with the advent of the fairy type, poison is still not a great attacking type, without a lot of SE and being straight walled by the ever-popular steel type, which is not going away any time soon.

 

[Haruno]

Banette pretty much mandates protect to not get wrecked on the turn it mega evolves.

 

[Forsety]

Mega Evo always goes off no matter what the only requirement is you take your turn so Banette will always get the attack and defenses stat boost no matter what, just not the priority of Prankster on the first turn, in short Banette is going to get destroyed first turn no matter what you do unless you Protect like Haruno suggested.

By Shadow Sneaking on the first turn all that happens is you'll get off a decent hit before getting steamrolled. So pretty much if you're not using Protect you're better off on the first turn firing a huge attack and praying you survive the retaliatory hit as it's the only thing which actually takes advantage of MEvo'ing on the first turn. Safer players will prefer Protect, more offensive suicidal players like me would rather just bitch slap them hard as I can and hope for the best.

 

[pectus_Umbra]

^Right, that's how I thought it worked. Which is why my original build does have concerns with speed, and run WoW. Best case scenario is to be able to switch in on a switch out or a dead move. He can't tank a hit, but he can come in on the slower tanky guys as long as he has a little speed greasing him, and WoW the likes of scizor, ferrorthron, or such. this is why WoW is my first choice for status. while you can't debuff special attackers in the same way, based on your useful numbers and the fact that most of the powerful special sweepers do not have priority of their own. True, the WoW won't touch talonflame, but burn is still the best reliable status for megamaw, scizor, ferrothorn, and so on.

Also of note is that my mind is geared towards cart play as opposed to sim play, which means I'm working under restrictions like item clause and only getting to choose 3 mons for random onlines. This is an area where megabanette can actually do a good job with the stable ability to snag a burn with at a good shot at a 1-1 trade, and if you can get the the best case of a status+2v1, then you're in pretty solid.

I think I will try adjusting the evs to the bare minimum regarding speed that I can get, and dump the rest into HP for every last drop of bulk I can get.

 

[SevilitheArcanine]

I've been running the following set:

Banette @ Banetteite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Claw

It's been fairly effective. While I must say I prefer Sableye, Prankster Destiny Bond is extremely useful. I don't expect it to be game-breaking, but it seems to have a solid niche.

 

[MewtwoHidden.]

Banette (F) @ Banettite
Trait: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Destiny Bond
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
- Shadow Claw

This is by far my favorite Set in XY Ubers so far, it just has so many roles. It has also revived my hope that stall can and will survive (also I don't have to use SpDef Physical Arceus-Poison or Assualt Vest Metagross on all my teams, yay!). Stuff like Xerneas just plows through HO and Mega Mewtwo Y plows through stall. This thing changes all of that. Not only does it provide Paralysis support but it gets a free kill per game unless your opponent expects this kind of set, which has never happened to me so far. Expect this to be a key player in whatever tiers it is allowed in, especially Ubers

Edit: btw this makes a fantastic partner to Xerneas

 

[pedro702]

i came up with this moveset

Banette @Banetite
Ability insomnia/Prankster
Adamant nature
Evs:160Hp 252Atk 96Speed
Shadow Claw
Sucker Punch
Substitute
WoW

the speed evs make sure it outspeeds uninvested base 86 speed pokemon so you can shadow claw before taking a hit, the hp evs make sure you can do 4 substitutes, substitute is amazing to predict status moves and works perfectly with sucker punch what do you guys think?

 

[muramusaw8]

snip

Wow, that Banette set seems awesome. Wonder how it would fare in OU... It's a shame that Smeargle outspeeds.

 

[Mecawallace]

MegaBanette should be used on teams where your mega choice was already not the ideal centerpiece for your team. She makes an excellent revenge killer, and then destiny-bond to death mon, securing a good 2 KO's. It would also be pretty smart to lead with Mega Banette, mega evolve it, and priority attack whatever is in front on it, then switch out. It can come out when the opponents main sweeper is revealed to either revenge kill it, or destiny bond it.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Mega Banette can use a priority Magic Room, if that interests anyone. And unlike Klefki, it isn't negatively affected by Magic Room itself.

 

[GDK]

Why do you all use Insomnia as banette's ability?
Going mega wakes you up, so frisk is the way to go right?
Or at least cursed body if you're feeling lucky.

 

[zferolie]

I have yet to see anyone mention Disable. Priority Disable can royally screw over a pokemon, more so then a Will-o-wisp.

As for people talking about Mega volving him. the sooner he becomes mega the better, so I say lead with Mega banette, and Mega evolve instantly. That way you don't need to worry about the pranskter not activating right away, since most leads will not be able to handle Banette.

As for moves, I was thinking a set like this

Adamant
Shadow Sneak
Disable
Destiny Bond
Gunk Shot/Return/Will-o-wisp

252 attack, 252 HP, rest in Defense.

I don't think only having a ghost move is a good idea. I dislike the thought of not being able to touch a normal type. you can come in on any pokemon, and disable them right away, shutting them down.