Wait, Overcoat protects from hazards now? O_O
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Other Most Improved Pokemon
- Thread starter k13
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Indeed, Hydreigon outspeeds all unboosted OU fairies bar Dedenne and Whimsicott. If anything, Hydreigon will have trouble getting past Fairies, since excluding Fire Blast, Fairies resist everything he ran last gen. And even with Fire Blast, Azumarill still counters it (yeesh, it'll be everywhere this gen). Fortunately, Hydreigon gets Flash Cannon, so it can probably replace Superpower so it can go fully special anyway.
Bringing this over from the Boomburst thread, but I'm submitting long-forgotten Chatot.
It gets STAB Boomburst (140 base power, no drawbacks), and a newly-buffed Chatter with 65 bp (up from 60) and guaranteed confusion. It's not going to be a powerhouse or anything, but aside from perhaps Scolipede, there's not a Pokemon who can claim such a tremendous set of buffs.
It gets STAB Boomburst (140 base power, no drawbacks), and a newly-buffed Chatter with 65 bp (up from 60) and guaranteed confusion. It's not going to be a powerhouse or anything, but aside from perhaps Scolipede, there's not a Pokemon who can claim such a tremendous set of buffs.
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
The most improved is obviously Ditto. While Ditto itself didn't improve, the Pokes around it did, and since Ditto is all of the other Pokes, Ditto has technically improved. Slap a Scarf on that baby and you're ready to roll.
And btw, since Megas can't hold items, Ditto can beat almost all of the straight up attackers one on one. Choice Scarf Mega Lucario. That's Ditto in a nutshell.
And btw, since Megas can't hold items, Ditto can beat almost all of the straight up attackers one on one. Choice Scarf Mega Lucario. That's Ditto in a nutshell.
Ditto OP. Banned to Ubers.
But did we confirm that Ditto gets Rapid Spin?
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
If it's against a Pokemon that does, then yes.
Protip: Don't try to sweep with your Mega Luke if your opponent's Ditto is still alive.
Ditto is amazing against offensive teams, and if your opponent is stupid enough to do something like set up 6 Dragon Dances with Salamence then you're pretty much good to go. But against Stall, which arguably got a boost this gen, it's so useless you might as well use something like Chatot instead. Also a good player can play around a Ditto so that it never turns into something that can sweep them (like not using SD on their Mega Luke until Ditto is gone).
I believe that people are being unfair to Metagross. Yes, it was only barely OU last generation and YES, it has now gained two extra weaknesses that will no doubt be seeing a lot of use, but there is one thing it has gained: an immunity to Sticky Web (thanks to Clear Body). If SW sees a lot of use (and I predict that it will, at least at the beginning of the metagame) than Metagross will be quite powerful indeed. While I unfortunately have not calculated the pokemon it could now outspeed (both with and without speed investment) I propose that there will be quite possible a lot more of Metagross than in Gen V.
As for whom I genuinely think is the worst affected? It is quite hard to say. A lot of things require on how the metagame will turn out, but I believe that Wobuffet has taken a serious hit. While it was never amazing in Gen V, thanks to the new prominence of it's weaknesses, and the immunity to Shadow tag that Ghost types have gained, it looks like it may fall a tier or two. It probably isn't the WORST affected, but it is one that I haven't seen much notice of.
And for the most improved? I would say probably Pinsir. While his regular form is still mediocre, his Mega-Evolution takes power to a new level. Thanks to a STAB, effective Life Orb (because of Aerilate's hidden boost of 33% to Normal moves) Flying type Return and Quick attack, he packs quite the punch. (His Quick attack, with the Aerilate boost and STAB, becomes the same power as an unboosted Extremespeed). The only problems he has are other priority users (and even then, few of them can threaten him outside of Talonflame) and competition for the Mega Evolution spot on your team.
Of course, I might be slightly biased (as my avatar indicates) but I believe my reasoning still stands. Please reply if you wish to share your opinion about the Pokemon I have mentioned.
As for whom I genuinely think is the worst affected? It is quite hard to say. A lot of things require on how the metagame will turn out, but I believe that Wobuffet has taken a serious hit. While it was never amazing in Gen V, thanks to the new prominence of it's weaknesses, and the immunity to Shadow tag that Ghost types have gained, it looks like it may fall a tier or two. It probably isn't the WORST affected, but it is one that I haven't seen much notice of.
And for the most improved? I would say probably Pinsir. While his regular form is still mediocre, his Mega-Evolution takes power to a new level. Thanks to a STAB, effective Life Orb (because of Aerilate's hidden boost of 33% to Normal moves) Flying type Return and Quick attack, he packs quite the punch. (His Quick attack, with the Aerilate boost and STAB, becomes the same power as an unboosted Extremespeed). The only problems he has are other priority users (and even then, few of them can threaten him outside of Talonflame) and competition for the Mega Evolution spot on your team.
Of course, I might be slightly biased (as my avatar indicates) but I believe my reasoning still stands. Please reply if you wish to share your opinion about the Pokemon I have mentioned.
Lucario must get a special mention: Nasty Plot has become much more viable now (NP / Aura Sphere / Flash Cannon / Dark Pulse) and has made SD variants much more menacing.
Azumaril's Play Rough is also menacing to switch into.
Blaziken didn't really need the Mega-boost, but the power increase and bulk overall have made it quite the amazing Pokemon.
And lastly, Mawhile and Absol are now viable in OU, which was not thought possible ever before.
Azumaril's Play Rough is also menacing to switch into.
Blaziken didn't really need the Mega-boost, but the power increase and bulk overall have made it quite the amazing Pokemon.
And lastly, Mawhile and Absol are now viable in OU, which was not thought possible ever before.
Sticky Web will not save Metagross, who is so slow the speed drop doesn't even matter. Metagross will have a nice home in UU and see a lot more play, be happy for the iron giant
Having doubted myself for a second I ran some calcuations. Because Sticky Web lowers by one stage, their speed is lowered to 2/3. This means that with a neutral nature, and no speed investment, Metagross can outspeed base 114 pokemon with neutral nature and no investment. With full investment and a positive nature, it can outspeed base 120 pokemon with full investment and a positive nature. It's amazing how much difference one stage can make. All of these calculations are unboosted, but don't forget that Metagross learns Agility!
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention, that this relies on your team playing Sticky Web as well.
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Go ahead, use a metagross. Let me know how that goes with new pokemon like talonflame and aegislash running around
Because Sticky Web users are clearly going to use those pokemon, whose priority don't care about Sticky Web and speed tiers are too extreme for Sticky Web
I also forgot to mention that Metagross (ironically) REQUIRES sticky web for those calcs to work. It's a great possibility on a Sticky Web team, but there are others.
And I'm NOT saying Metagross is perfect - far from it. It did gain two weaknesses and with those new threats it's certainly in for a rough ride. But with a little care and thought, it might just work.
As a defensive player, Poisons are one of my three favorite types, with 2 of my favorites looking to become OU this gen.
Crobat- The utility, Infiltrator buff, Defog, Speed Poison Buff, Bulk, Typing, and amount of sets, looks like its going to now sit in OU.
Scolipede- As mentioned many times, and who could even hold his own in OU B/W, now has Speed Boost, he has grown so much.
Clefable- You guys just wait, I'm telling you my baby will be a incredible this gen. I want to see it go OU. :D.
Mawile- Don't really care for be who can deny its new found niche in OU?
Crobat- The utility, Infiltrator buff, Defog, Speed Poison Buff, Bulk, Typing, and amount of sets, looks like its going to now sit in OU.
Scolipede- As mentioned many times, and who could even hold his own in OU B/W, now has Speed Boost, he has grown so much.
Clefable- You guys just wait, I'm telling you my baby will be a incredible this gen. I want to see it go OU. :D.
Mawile- Don't really care for be who can deny its new found niche in OU?
Im a huge metagross fan so I love the idea of using him for the unpredictable factor. Im just saying there are much better pokes to use for sticky web. Too bad talonflame is immune to sticky web and destroys metagross, and aegislash doesn't care ab the speed loss bc of priority shadow sneak
I'm pretty sure every pokemon has their counters. And while I'm sure there are lots of pokemon that can take advantage of Sticky Web, not many of them would work as well if your opponent sets it up as well. There ARE other pokemon that are either immune (flying types) or can take advantage of it (Contrary, Defiant and Competitve abilities) but the immune pokemon all have similar weaknesses (being one type) and there aren't that many pokemon that have the abilities AND can take advantage of them. Of course, you would want a rapid spin user as well (not defog if your team is based around Sticky Web) but if you couldn't switch it in, Metagross could be a temporary solution, and can hold up on its own with the speed 'boost'.
Actually an underrated option is sash Dittto. Last gen it was highly effective if you removed sr/spikes, and now with the defog buff it will be even better. Scare something out with the threat of a scarf, kill the switchin, and then kill another mon if you still have your sash.
Ghost and Dragon Immunity. Has titanic wishes. It is kinda cute.
I will definitely try it out in UBER Metagame. And if it is useful there, having a niche, well, it improved from NU -> Uber (->niche<-). Sounds good to me.
Also Intimidate Granbull with rest talk bell rough play is amazing in OU. I need to make calcs but damn monofairy is such a good attacking type.
But the most improved mon to me is the one that looked like a potato bag (hence I nicknamed it potato)in gen 1 to me
Gengar:
-Ghost has better couverage overall
-Ghost is untrapable
-Poison couverage is pretty useful overall (dealing with random chespinfinalevo's thanks to sludge wave, and fairies)
-Got an amazing mega evolution, a bastard child of ghastly haunter and gengar + the ripped eye from jirachi's stomach.
-Gengar Special movepool isn't affected that much by the special nerfs, expect for hp (although since steel doesn't resist ghost anymore...)
Yeah, I'm sure Gengar improved a lot. If Mega Gengar is proven to be Uber worthy for whatever reason, I will definitely enjoy it to use it in Ubers against Mewtwo and stuff (It has base 140 speed, right? Damn I love Mega Gengar.)
You guys are crazy if you think Metagross will rise in usage. Those two weaknesses are killer, plus there's everything in the metagame that there was before. Special attacks might have taken a small hit, but they're still so dominant-- and Ghost and Dark attacks are literally everywhere, especially with priority. We'll see how Metagross fares in UU...
Which were mentioned in our discussion. The conclusion was it would be useful ON CERTAIN TEAMS in CERTAIN SITUATIONS. It probably WILL be in UU, seeing as how the tiers work; but don't forget that a lot of UU pokemon (and below) can be used viable in OU in the right teams.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
Well, I think that's a valid point. It doesn't wholly fit the thread theme, but it shows how a pokemon most people considered truly nerfed this generation has actually gained a thing or two. And of course now its meteor mash (whilst slightly nerfed) will have more meaningful super-effective coverage.
I don't know why they nerfed meteor mash, if anything they should have buffed it. Either go from 100 base power to 110 or raise the accuracy from 85 to 95. I guess they chose to raise accuracy while decreasing power. Metagross with an assault vest is a great check to fairies. Here's the moveset I've been using on PS:
Metagross@assault vest
Adamant nature, 248 HP 252 Atk 8 Speed
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Earthquake
-Zen Headbutt/Ice or Thunder Punch (When PokeBox is released)
With his already high defense and an assault vest, Metagross can tank quite a few hits and dish out hard hits in return. He's a great asset to any team that struggles against fairies, namely those centered around dragons and/or fighting types.
Metagross@assault vest
Adamant nature, 248 HP 252 Atk 8 Speed
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Earthquake
-Zen Headbutt/Ice or Thunder Punch (When PokeBox is released)
With his already high defense and an assault vest, Metagross can tank quite a few hits and dish out hard hits in return. He's a great asset to any team that struggles against fairies, namely those centered around dragons and/or fighting types.
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