Move Knock Off

Status
Not open for further replies.
So I'm wondering why the competitive implications of this move aren't more talked about.
Knock Off:
20->65 BP
Now base 97 if the opponent is holding an item.

This is huge! Crunch has a BP of 80 and this move hits 97 almost assuredly for the first turn while removing any item!
A specific scenario I remember from gen 5 was people running flying gem acrobatics on Scizor for Jellicent. Well, SE LO Knock Off does about 40% more damage than Flying Gem Acrobatics.
CB Tyranitar can now hit harder than Crunch AND remove an item. Not to mention, 97+65=162 and 80+80=160 so it almost directly outclasses Crunch on offensive sets due to power and defensive sets due to utility.

Knock Off already saw niche use on things like Tentacruel and Mandibuzz last gen, but with this insane power buff it seems to be a much more enticing option.
 
Last edited:
As it turns out, the in-game description is wrong and Knock Off does not do more damage to a target that holds an item. When I tested it, Knock Off did 1 hp more damage after the item had been removed. So the power is almost certainly the same.

EDIT: I was wrong. Either I missed a crit or was testing using a Mega Stone. Knock Off does 50% more damage against a target with an item (other than a Mega Stone).

However, Serebii has it wrong: Knock Off's base power is now 65, not 55. I'd say a 65-power move that removes the target's item is nothing to sneeze at.
 
Last edited:

Bummer

Jamming to the beat
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
As it turns out, the in-game description is wrong and Knock Off does not do more damage to a target that holds an item. When I tested it, Knock Off did 1 hp more damage after the item had been removed. So the power is almost certainly the same.
I hope others can confirm this. I'm glad to see the increase in base power since it's a genuinely good utility move, but doubling in power against opponents holding items (that is, anyone and anything) sounds insane.
 
if it doubled, that would've been insane. that being said, i don't see this boost being significant in anyway. because this thread's op is focused entirely on the benefits of it doubling, i'm locking this. If you feel the bp boost to 55 is enough for a new discussion on knock off, shoot me a pm with why and i'll reopen it. until then, there really isn't much to discuss here, knock off is the same its always been, just a bit stronger
 
~97, rather. Which means that over the course of two turns, Knock Off should just barely outdamage Crunch as long as the first hit takes off an item. It won't be as good against Mega Evolutions, but considering the excellent bonus effect and the increased first-turn damage, it seems this is overall the go-to physical Dark move for anything with access. And of course it's that much better as a utility move, as well.
 
I wonder if boosted Knock Off still gets a Technician boost? It's unlikely (Pursuit does not, after all), but if it does, it could be deadly on Scizor and, in the lower tiers, Ampibom and, in the even lower tiers, Persian.
 
I was using Ambibom and Knock Off does around 30 - 35% to Aegislash (and likewise for Metragross, Jirachi, etc). It's a pretty good move and lots of pokemon can use it. Absolutely devastating for leftovers users, choice users, and sitrus/lum trevenant. Not to mention sometimes you can knock of toxic orbs and flame orbs from things like Gliscor and Clefable on a good switch. Pretty good stuff here.
 
Ok so the OP has been updated. While 110 and 55 were a little bit scarier, 97.5 and 65 are more than notable. Weavile is notable for Knock Off beating out Night Slash.
 
If you use knock off on a Pokemon switching in with a mega stone being held, will it knock off the Mega Stone? That could cripple some 'Mons.
 
If you use knock off on a Pokemon switching in with a mega stone being held, will it knock off the Mega Stone? That could cripple some 'Mons.
No, you can't remove Mega Stones for their respective user, and you don't even get the power boost

Seems like the perfect time to start using Justified Lucario!
 
Drapion loves this. It already has a niche as an offensive utility poke, and a nice power boost suits it perfectly.

Drapion Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab / Cross Poison
- Earthquake
- Taunt / Whirlwind

Knock Off replaces Crunch, messing with so many pokes it's hilarious. It doesn't knock off Mega stones, but at least it can scout for them: say, if your opponent has a Garchomp and a Tyranitar, and Knock Off doesn't get anything from Chomp, you know what the mega will be.

It last-resort checks Mega Gengar: Knock Off does a ton of damage (although it misses Crunch here), it resists its STABs and is neutral to all of its coverage moves. If it tries Sub/Disable shenanigans, switch to EQ and remind it of its Ground weakness.

Poison STAB is more useful this gen, physical in particular. I completely forgot about the existence of Cross Poison until I looked up Drapion's moves just now (it's a Poison Slash clone), but I guess that's viable. EQ is non-negotiable. It'll normally KO Blade forme Aegislash, and Drapion resists its Shadow Sneak too.

Dark/Ground/Poison gives decent coverage (Skarm aside, although you can get its Lefties), so support for the fourth slot. Taunt to mess with things, or Whirlwind. Toxic Spikes aren't too great anymore with Defog getting more common. Or lol Acupressure.
 
Last edited:
The move is good enough to be a solo attack on some Dark pokemon. Try it with Red Card Mandibuzz! Its awesome! With her defenses and Overcoat negating Sandstorm she can Knock Off vital recovery items. Shes bulky enough most of the time to get away with Roost, but a cleric would be helpful. But use Knock Off, theyll hit you and get switched out, then Knock Off again! If you can remove 3 items from the enemy team shes done her job. With base 80 speed and Sticky Web support she'll outspeed many things and can easily Whirlwind out set up users. Last move is up for debate but Toxic is a fair choice.
 
This makes sense now. I was wondering why Knock Off Weepinbell were eating my Doublade alive while it was training.

Anyways, this buff to Knock Off means support mons with a halfway decent Attack stat will be rejoicing. Knock Off is a great move especially in NU where Eviolite is rampant, and having a base power to rival Night Slash when an item has been removed is pretty crazy. Even on non-support Pokemon, it's quite a viable move if you're dying for some Dark coverage and are too quick and frail to use Payback properly. Shame about the 65BP and not 60 otherwise Technician users would have a field day with this one.
 
The move is good enough to be a solo attack on some Dark pokemon. Try it with Red Card Mandibuzz! Its awesome! With her defenses and Overcoat negating Sandstorm she can Knock Off vital recovery items. Shes bulky enough most of the time to get away with Roost, but a cleric would be helpful. But use Knock Off, theyll hit you and get switched out, then Knock Off again! If you can remove 3 items from the enemy team shes done her job. With base 80 speed and Sticky Web support she'll outspeed many things and can easily Whirlwind out set up users. Last move is up for debate but Toxic is a fair choice.
Said it before and I'll say it again, I'm REALLY excited about Mandibuzz this gen.

Toxic's decent as a last move, but depending on the rest of your team it isn't optimal for a Pokemon focused on switching around the opponent's side. Other great options are STAB Foul Play, Taunt to prevent hazard setting or status as she systematically disarms the opponent's side, or Defog for pure utility (although if you're relying on Sticky Web this last one isn't ideal).

And remember again, she still resists Ghost in an age where Ghost is king, and Overcoat stops powders.
 
Actually can she learn Acrobatics? Its the perfect move to compliment Red Card. O_O Actually with those two it might warrant investing in At or Spd some holy crap!

EDIT: According to Serebii it does not but we don't know if that'll change come Pokebank. It does learn Brave Bird if nothing else.
 
Last edited:
Actually can she learn Acrobatics? Its the perfect move to compliment Red Card. O_O Actually with those two it might warrant investing in At or Spd some holy crap!
She can't learn Acrobatics, but even if she did, investing in anything non-defensive is a bad idea, except MAYBE speed for specific threats. Her offensive stats are not only terrible (65 attack isn't taking you anywhere unless you've got Pure/Huge Power), but she has access to a wonderful attacking move in Foul Play that allows her to put on the hurt without any investment; hell, even with a negative nature, if you want!

Knock Off may do a bit more damage this gen, but that's not what makes Mandibuzz so much better.
 
Knock Off's just in that range where it's enough power for a Dark type to deliver respectable damage, and the secondary effect is just that delicious in an era where so many Pokemon depend on one. Suddenly, not only have you walloped them a good one, but you've just punched a hole straight through their strategy. Heck, we'd use the slightly-higher old 70-Power Hidden Powers for coverage, this is right in the same range to be broadly useful- even in odd cases like Hariyama, who will seriously slap some shit out of Psychic-types with it.

Silly question- I wonder how this works with Sheer Force?
 

Upstart

Copy Cat
Poor Weavile :( Finally receives a respectable Dark and Ice move. Unfortunately, she must choose to use Low Kick and Knock Off settling for Ice Punch or use Icicle Crash and settle for Night Slash and Brick Break.

Hopefully, Knock Off is a tutor in the next installment of gen 6 but that is like 2 years away. So let's focus on the metagame at hand.
 
Would knock offs power boost apply if the opponent is holding a mega stone? i know it wouldn't knock off the stone but the description leads me to believe that the power boost would still apply.
 
Would knock offs power boost apply if the opponent is holding a mega stone? i know it wouldn't knock off the stone but the description leads me to believe that the power boost would still apply.
Nope. Knock Off treats Mega Stones as not being there, since it can't remove them- and doesn't get the damage boost in the process. Otherwise, it'd be the go-to move for wiping Mega Zam/Mewtwo off the field, since you could repeatedly slap them silly.
 
Poor Weavile :( Finally receives a respectable Dark and Ice move. Unfortunately, she must choose to use Low Kick and Knock Off settling for Ice Punch or use Icicle Crash and settle for Night Slash and Brick Break.
I get your point in terms of Icicle Crash and Knock Off, but now that Dark hits Steel neutrally our girl doesn't really need a Fighting coverage move anymore, does she?

(That wasn't a stylistic "does she?", I'm actually asking. I can't think of any particular reason to use a Fighting move now but that doesn't mean a reason doesn't exist.)

Like Bisharp and Honchkrow, Weavile's really benefited from the Dark buff in terms of coverage. Now she can pull a Swords Dance set with Ice Shard and a more powerful ice move without shooting herself in the foot.
 
What happens if you use Knock Off against a pokemon with Assault Vest? I remember reading in the Assault Vest thread that it can't be knocked off/tricked away.
Would it deal no additional damage as it wouldn't remove the item?
 
Posted this in the Bisharp Thread:

Worth note: Choice Banded knock off is a guaranteed OHKO on Defense Stance Aegislash

252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def (custom): 356-420 (109.87 - 129.62%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Defiant neutralizes Kings's Shield.

To give you a sense of how strong a CB Knock Off Bisharp is in sticky web:

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 233-275 (57.67 - 68.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That is a resisted move.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top