Pokémon Mawile

[Meteor]

With Blaziken you might as well not pass just SD and sweep

... And promptly get wrecked by the Gale Wings Talonflame everyone seems to be carrying at the moment.


Anyway, personally I am finding Mega Mawile a lot more useful in a similar role to Aegislash, it's slightly less bulky, sure, but as both have such poor HP stats I guess I'm not really feeling that much difference, and MM plays a lot more like other pokemon I'm used to using. I'm just generally loving Mega Mawile because of how absurdly hard it hits even without setup - and the more familiar people become with that the more switches it'll force, and the more setup opportunities it'll get.

 

[Primevil]

With Blaziken you might as well not pass just SD and sweep

That doesn't address the issue. If you want to discuss Blazikens viability as a baton passer Vs. a sweeper I'm sure there's plenty of that going on in the Blaziken thread.

 

[Dmnt]

Am I the only one who thinks this could work great with Stockpile?

Nature: Careful
Ability: Intimidate -> Huge Power
Item: Mawilite
EVs: 4 ATK / 252 Def / 252 SpD
- Stockpile
- Foul Play
- Play Rough/Sucker Punch/*something else maybe*
- Pain Split

With the Careful nature, the Def and SpD will be quite even(the Def will still be a bit higher), which can make great for a mixed wall if it gets to set up.
No HP EVs are for making the best off Pain Split. Since what Huge Power doubles is your attack's Power instead of your total Attack stat(meaning Foul Play, for example, becomes a 190 Power attack which factors the opponent's Attack), you can then use their strenght against them. Play Rough or Sucker Punch depend on what you need the most: A good STAB to hit mons with low attack, or some kind of priority. I'd personally go with Play Rough.
As to when to switch in... It'd be a good idea to switch into a physichal attacker using Parting Gift and with Intimidate to lower it into -2, almost focing a switch, to safely mega-evolve and set up the first Stockpile, and then work out from that. Alternatively, Reflect anlong with Intimidate could get a similar effect, making Klefki a good teammate(the problem here is it has the same weaknesses as Mega Mawile...)
Anyway, I'm still not sure how good could this work, having only Pain Split for recovery(which is not particularly good to begin with...)

Any ideas/opinions?

 

[Fundance]

Ok think of it like this.

Mega Mawile's base attack is 108 or whatever. When it attacks with crunch, that's an 80 base (plus stab) power move coming off 108 base attack (mawile) doubled by huge power.

If Mega Mawile uses Foul Play, it takes on the attack of the opponent, then adds huge power.

So if it was attacking Gyarados, then...

it would be a base 95 base (plus stab) move coming off 125 base attack (Gyarados) doubled by huge power.

Foul Play essentially gives you a 95 base power attack and uses the opponent's attack rather than Mega Mawiles, THEN applies Huge power to it. You're hitting with the force of a HUGE POWER GYARADOS with a STAB base 95 damage dark type attack.

That Gyarados is going to have to think very hard about using Dragon Dance.

edit: I'm a moron, of course it doesn't get Stab.

 

[Dmnt]

Well, I'm proposing Foul Play because of the minimal Attack investment in favor to the defenses, and, as Fundance has hinted, it can also be used to punish physical attackers who might try to set up on your Stockpile(you're still better off using Play Rough for special attackers or weakened physicals).

 

[Karoshi]

Well, I'm proposing Foul Play because of the minimal Attack investment in favor to the defenses, and, as Fundance has hinted, it can also be used to punish physical attackers who might try to set up on your Stockpile(you're still better off using Play Rough for special attackers or weakened physicals).

While "usable", MegaMawile uninvested in attack evs will deal more damage with her STAB attacks then a 90 power unstabed attack. Base 105 w/ Huge Power is nothing to scoff at and not using it is counter productive to the Pokemon's overall effectiveness as then you are forgoing her ability completely.

 

[Dmnt]

That's not how it is at all.
As I said, what Huge Power doubles is your attack's "power"
Foul play is a Dark type attack with 95 power, which uses the opponent's Attack stat instead of yours.
Huge Power makes it effectively a 190 power attack, which factors the opponent's Attack stat.

 

[The Gentleman Gamer]

Be that as it may, the question is whether to use it over the other dark coverage option: Sucker punch. While Foul Play has the advantage of being more powerful against setup physical sweepers, Sucker Punch is more advantageous in other respects in that it has priority, and has the same base power regardless of your opponents attack. I would personally stick with Sucker Punch, but as I said, Foul Play has its advantages.

 

[TheMohZone]

if a mega is used enough to be in OU, its base form also has as they are they same pokemon. If Mega Mawile is OU, Mawile is OU. If Mega Mawile somehow ends up in NU, then Mawilite will probably be banned to exclusive use in an upper tier. But their is no Chance of Mawilite being Banned so Mawile goes NU.

Also please stop Spelling it Mawhile. Its Mawile. Spelling it different hurts me badly.

 

[SJCrew]

I don't think M-Mawile is bad at all. I mean, it DOES have an interesting new niche as a Dragon check, but my issue with it is that it's overly reliant on Sucker Punch to do its dirty work, as 50 base Speed and HP are still condemning enough for disuse. I happen to think it's an interesting take on an old gimmick (slow Sucker Punch user with high attack and relatively low defenses), and regardless of whether or not it is actually OU, you'll see it every now and then and be troubled by that insane 50/50 deathmatch it imposes. It'll be at its scariest when your Substitute users are dead.

 

[alexwolf]

Mawile needs Intimidate to switch in safely before MEvolving. Stop talking about using Mawile withouts Mawilenite or with another ability than Intimidate, it is ridiculous. Let's get back to discussing what is viable, Mega Mawile.

 

[Tressed]

Anyways, I've been rocking SubSD Mega-Mawile for a little while, and its my favorite Mega so far. Bulk, priority, the ability to set up easily, POWAH. Nothing else has stood out for me thus far. Despite having the same typing, I'm almost tempted to run troll the lower ladder with this thing and DS Klefki so I can try setting up on Garchomp and Talonflame.

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom) through Reflect: 118-140 (38.81 - 46.05%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 309-364 (86.31 - 101.67%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Style < Practicality XD

 

[Bombkirby]

if a mega is used enough to be in OU, its base form also has as they are they same pokemon. If Mega Mawile is OU, Mawile is OU. If Mega Mawile somehow ends up in NU, then Mawilite will probably be banned to exclusive use in an upper tier. But their is no Chance of Mawilite being Banned so Mawile goes NU.

Also please stop Spelling it Mawhile. Its Mawile. Spelling it different hurts me badly.

I thought everyone came to the agreement that the item would be banned. Like Latios/Latias.

 

[MechPlasma]

I thought everyone came to the agreement that the item would be banned. Like Latios/Latias.

With a fancy-dandy official confirmation to boot.

Because, y'know, saying "We're not letting you use Mawile unless you take it as your sole Mega Evolution Pokémon" would be spectacularly stupid and arbitrary.

 

[56k]

What pokemon counter MegaMawile? Remember that mawile might have swords dance, or it might be sub + 3 attacks. It might attack on the switch, it might SD on the switch, or it might sub on the switch. Pokemon must be able to handle this attacking moveset:

• Crunch
• Sucker Punch
• Iron Head
• Play Rough
  
• Brick Break
• Stone Edge
• Rock Slide
• Fire Fang
• Ice Punch
• Poison Fang
• Thunder Punch

I've come up with Heatran, Skarmory Landorus-T, and Qwilfish as "counters depending on the set"

Heatran almost counters it. It can switch in to almost any move except brick break (Play Rough would do 12.43 - 14.5% to maximum defensive Heatran, Stone Edge would do 40.67 - 47.92%) , it can easily survive +2 sucker punch if it has maximum defensive bulk (58.54 - 69.17%), and then kill it with a fire move, or it can kill its substitute and survive 2 normal sucker punches that each do 29.27 - 34.71%. But substitute -> brick break owns heatran.

Skarm can switch in on any move except thunder/fire fang (Play Rough does 23.65 - 27.84% to maximum defensive Skarm but fire fang does 45.5 - 53.89%), Skarmory can also survive almost any +2 move (Play Rough would do 55.98 - 65.86%, Stone Edge does 69.76 - 82.33%, but +2 Fire Fang does 91.01 - 107.18% lol), and then whirlwind it away.

Maximum defense Landorus-T takes 28.27 - 33.24% from a -1 Iron Head followed by a 16.75 - 19.89% -1 Sucker Punch, or a +1 33.24 - 39.26% Sucker Punch. But ice punch on the switch or behind a substitute kills it.

Qwilfish takes 50.89 - 60.47% from -1 Thunder Fang and then has destiny bond.

Hippowdon, Cofagrius, and Registeel are good tries in theory but max def hippo takes 85 - 100% from +2 Play Rough, Cofagrius takes 95.93 - 113.43% from +2 Play Rough, and Registeel can't hit back with anything except Earthquake and takes 86.81 - 102.74% from +2 Fire Fang and 100.54 - 118.68% from +2 Brick Break.



This pokemon is very very checkable but trying to hard counter it is driving me mad, does anyone have counter ideas for a stall team trying not to be wallbroken by this guy?

 

[Meteor]

Ok think of it like this.

Mega Mawile's base attack is 108 or whatever. When it attacks with crunch, that's an 80 base (plus stab) power move coming off 108 base attack (mawile) doubled by huge power.

If Mega Mawile uses Foul Play, it takes on the attack of the opponent, then adds huge power.

So if it was attacking Gyarados, then...

it would be a base 95 base (plus stab) move coming off 125 base attack (Gyarados) doubled by huge power.

Foul Play essentially gives you a 95 base power attack and uses the opponent's attack rather than Mega Mawiles, THEN applies Huge power to it. You're hitting with the force of a HUGE POWER GYARADOS with a STAB base 95 damage dark type attack.

That Gyarados is going to have to think very hard about using Dragon Dance.

edit: I'm a moron, of course it doesn't get Stab.

I just want to see calcs on whether gyara and various other sweepers can take a hit from foul play's alternatives (crunch, rough play, sucker punch - though sucker punch has its usual downsides). Basically, I'm just questioning, as others have, whether foul play is actually necessary - as while it is more effective against physical sweepers for sure, against opponents with lower attack stats (special sweepers and my main concern - defensive pokes) it's going to be weaker than other options. If M-Mawile needs the power to handle these sweepers then sure (though as I'm playing mawile as a bulky setup sweeper with priority, it's still not a huge concern to me because most sweepers aren't going to take a hit off m-mawile's post-SD >1000-equivalent Attack stat and live to tell about it), it's a good choice and deserves at least to be slashed in on any given set. I just doubt that's the case against a lot of things especially as you're trading off the priority of Sucker Punch on a slow, powerful pokemon like M-Mawile (unless you're keen on carry two same-typed non STAB moves).

56k: Heatran strikes me as the main threat as Skarmory is generally looking less viable this gen thanks to the steel nerf and the power creep of g5, but part of M-Mawile's appeal is the synergy it has with Dragon/Flying etc, which usually carry EQ. Also just to check because those numbers seem a little low, they are taking into account the nerf to Steel (no dark resist), right? Sorry to be a pain.
Assuming that is taken into account, from the viewpoint of someone who really likes M-Mawile it has always felt more like four moveslot syndrome to me, but given M-Mawile's trick/switcheroo immunity I can definitely see where you're coming from. Given the fact most of the pokemon you've highlighted are generally useful anyway, I imagine the main approach would be scout and then switch in something that can deal with that set. Nothing too unusual as I see it, but perhaps that's inexperience talking.

Anyway, as I see it M-Mawile's greatest attributes are its typing and the fact it is one of the hardest hitting pokemon out - both of which will give it opportunities to switch in on immunities (or maybe 4x resists, though the fact it has to take those on its base form's defenses is a bit of a let down) or scare something out for free setup, and the typing gives it really good synergy with other strong pokemon like Dragonite and Salamence.
I also like it as a concept, as I think it is a really nice example of how the Mega evo mechanic should work - it's taken a largely useless pokemon and made it good (in a way that is rather different from what it's original form was capable of), while not being as, I guess "excessive" as say, Mega Luke is. If the more "excessive" (just my opinion) mega evo's get banned then I can see M-Mawile becoming one of the more popular choices for a team's Mega (though the similarity between it and Aegislash could pose some issue, though M-Mawiles immunity to trick/switcheroo is a big plus, though it lacks Aegislash's ability to go special to surprise usual counters). Sorry for the self indulgent ramble, I just really like this pokemon haha.

 

[MechPlasma]

What pokemon counter MegaMawile? Remember that mawile might have swords dance, or it might be sub + 3 attacks. It might attack on the switch, it might SD on the switch, or it might sub on the switch. Pokemon must be able to handle this attacking moveset:

Aggron can 2HKO it. It's the same speed, so Trick Room can eat it. And its huge defenses mean that even the lesser-seen super-effective moves can't do more than 3HKO it. AND it has phazing, so if Mawile has too many boosts, it can stop that right out! The only thing it can't do is switch in on a Brick Break.

I really need to actually write down the calculations, because I swear I get different results every time.

 

[Waffeleisen]

Hey,

how do you calculate all these things with M-Mawile? Smogon doesn't support M-Mawile as I see.
Would be nice if anyone can tell me how I can calculate with this Pokémon.
Preparing for a fight and I am sure my opponent will use M-Blaziken. Looking for a counter to it and want to know, if M-Mawile will survive a Flare Blitz (95% sure his Blaziken will use NO boost moves like SD).
So I want to BP Mawile +2 Atk, +1 Spd by Ninjask. But Blaziken will be faster, because of Speed Boost. So I would like to know if M-Mawile can even survive 2 hits by M-Blaziken.
Help would be great. M-Mawile looks very interesting.

 

[Thorhammer]

Hey,

how do you calculate all these things with M-Mawile? Smogon doesn't support M-Mawile as I see.
Would be nice if anyone can tell me how I can calculate with this Pokémon.
Preparing for a fight and I am sure my opponent will use M-Blaziken. Looking for a counter to it and want to know, if M-Mawile will survive a Flare Blitz (95% sure his Blaziken will use NO boost moves like SD).
So I want to BP Mawile +2 Atk, +1 Spd by Ninjask. But Blaziken will be faster, because of Speed Boost. So I would like to know if M-Mawile can even survive 2 hits by M-Blaziken.
Help would be great. M-Mawile looks very interesting.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/damage_formula

The shortcut I usually use for LV100 Pokemon is:

Min damage: ((0.84*Atk*BP/Def)+2)*STAB*Type*Misc*0.85
Max damage: ((0.84*Atk*BP/Def)+2)*STAB*Type*Misc

You can then divide by the foe's HP to get the percentage of their health lost.

 

[Dragontamer]

This pokemon is very very checkable but trying to hard counter it is driving me mad, does anyone have counter ideas for a stall team trying not to be wallbroken by this guy?

Mega Mawile is hard enough. But when you factor in the other major mega wallbreaker (Medicham: 100 Base Huge Power, 100 base speed), Mega Medicham +1 High Jump Kick OHKO's Skarmory without Stealth Rocks. Running walls to save you from Megas doesn't seem possible, unless you run Mega Aggron. He's the only one with the typing and bulk that keeps up with other Megas. Even then, MegaMedicham gives you trouble.

Anyway, I bring up Mega Medicham because these pokemon are similar. They have roughly the same attack, but Mega Medicham has (pre-pokebank) access to the elemental punches and High Jump Kick for extreme wallbreaking pleasure. Mega Mawile on the other hand, has Swords Dance, and much better defenses. Mega Medicham more or less gets away with +1 High Jump Kicks however, but Mega Mawile's Play Rough has few resists. Finally, Mega Medicham is running off of 100 base speed, which is enough to sweep with Sticky Web support. Mega Mawile threatens foes instead with potential +2 Suckerpunches... which can OHKO foes as powerful as Garchomp.

Mega Mawile is stopped by Mega Aggron. Mega Medicham is stopped by Talonflame.

Its hard to say who will become the premier wallbreaker of Gen6.

 

[Crazy-8]

So say I want to make a team with Mega Mawile. I'm kind of unsure what kind of team I want to make actually...what Pokemon would synergise well with it? I was thinking of running Zoroark as a special sweeper but i don't know if it'd synergise with M-Mawile

 

[farranpoison]

So say I want to make a team with Mega Mawile. I'm kind of unsure what kind of team I want to make actually...what Pokemon would synergise well with it? I was thinking of running Zoroark as a special sweeper but i don't know if it'd synergise with M-Mawile

Anything that resists MMawile's Fire/Ground Weaknesses are great partners. I myself am having great success with Gyarados, but there are others like Hydreigon, Rotom-W, Talonflame, etc.

 

[Ballofire]

The calcs people are posting in this thread are kind of sad and weird. Someone posted a calc of mawile taking hits with reflect up. Come on, this seems incredibly desperate lol. All calcs are always at +2 and this is not always going to happen. Sure, great you're +2 doing ridiculous DMG with a priority... show me an OU pokemon that can set up and doesn't do tons of damage.. and to the people saying sets other than intimidate or just flat out using regular mawile.. lol. Not saying this a bad pokemon you guys are just over hyping it.

 

[Tressed]

The calcs people are posting in this thread are kind of sad and weird. Someone posted a calc of mawile taking hits with reflect up. Come on, this seems incredibly desperate lol. All calcs are always at +2 and this is not always going to happen. Sure, great you're +2 doing ridiculous DMG with a priority... show me an OU pokemon that can set up and doesn't do tons of damage.. and to the people saying sets other than intimidate or just flat out using regular mawile.. lol. Not saying this a bad pokemon you guys are just over hyping it.

I was the guy showing Reflect. That was mostly just for shenanigans, although it does demonstrate how insanely bulky Mega-Mawile can get, and the sort of stress it can set up under (oh come on, you can switch in, set up, and kill Life Orb Garchomp spamming Earthquake with a Pokemon that's weak to ground.) You can do the same thing on a free switch without Reflect, ie. -1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage (WHY IS THIS OUTRAGE I MEANT EQ WTF?) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega-Mawile: 142-168 (46.71 - 55.26%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO. That's not even a guaranteed 2HKO.

Everyone is posting +2 calcs because its ridiculously easy to set up on a wide variety of physical attackers and either force switches or tank attacks (see above w/out Reflect). The fact that it does tons of damage, plus is easy to set up, plus has priority, plus the defensive typing... IMO Mega-Mawile doesn't get enough credit. I was running Mega-Lucario and found that, even with +2 STAB Adaptability Bullet Punch and Close Combat, it was lacking. Too much effort to set up, not enough damage where it counted, not enough bulk. Went back to Mawile, no regrets.

 

[Littha]

You can do the same thing on a free switch without Reflect, ie. -1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega-Mawile: 142-168 (46.71 - 55.26%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO. That's not even a guaranteed 2HKO.

Outrage does 0 damage to Mawlie, not 142-168