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- Thread starter Vann Accessible
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Don't hate on Onix he's cool. :(
I kinda did hope Onix got his BST updated. Maybe to have a somewhat higher attack or speed stat. Kinda want to use one competitively with Eviolite but he's so outclassed by Steelix it's not even funny.
I kinda did hope Onix got his BST updated. Maybe to have a somewhat higher attack or speed stat. Kinda want to use one competitively with Eviolite but he's so outclassed by Steelix it's not even funny.
GameFreak is trying to help old Pokemon deal with the power creep?
Wow... I'm genuinely impressed. 120 ATK Golem sounds scary.
Wow... I'm genuinely impressed. 120 ATK Golem sounds scary.
running a bulky set, it could destroy fire types. won't be OU this gen.
plus, raichu gets a speed boost of 10 points.
No, I never said "everything in one tier".
Basically, I think the metagame would be healthier if it were more diverse. Perhaps the best way to make that happen would be to adjust the BSTs so there are are only a few tiers (UU, BL, OU and Ubers; I'm not counting LC because I'm only talking about the adult forms of pokemon right now).
Ideally, pokemon who are NU would be lifted up to UU, and the pokemon who are "middle" to "high" UU would transition to BL and OU.
I know it's not perfect. There are some Pokemon with access to moves or abilities that are unbalanced, and I think that the type chart needs to be adjusted some more.
I also know that there are a lot of cool pokemon who could bring something interesting to the table, or just "spice things up a bit" if gamefreak could do something about the power creep issue
What's the difference between using low mid high UU and just keeping ru and nu? It seems pointless and like it could effectively go on forever. "Low-mid UU" and shit. And why would we adjust bst to begin with? It's not our job to create balanced tiers by altering pokemon, if something's broken, we give it the boot. Much simpler.
I believe that the metagame is diverse enough already. With the weather nerf and the introduction of quite a few new and dangerous Pokemon, Gen VI OU is going to be much more fun than Gen V OU. Besides that, I rather enjoy the amount of tiers we have here already. As a faithful NU / RU player, I'd like to not see my two favorite tiers disappear in favor of a "diverse" metagame of 3-4 huge tiers.
But back to the topic at hand, Vileplume, Golem, Unfeazant, Butterfree, and Seismitoad are all Gen V NU Pokemon that got a pretty decent boost to their main attacking stats, which I'm excited for. Vileplume and Golem now have even more offensive presence thanks to these buffs, Unfeazant might finally be somewhat viable, Seismitoad's mixed sets become more effective, and Quiver Dance Butterfree becomes even more dangerous. Of course, the NU tier apparently won't be opening for 6 or so months, but I'm still pretty excited about it.
But back to the topic at hand, Vileplume, Golem, Unfeazant, Butterfree, and Seismitoad are all Gen V NU Pokemon that got a pretty decent boost to their main attacking stats, which I'm excited for. Vileplume and Golem now have even more offensive presence thanks to these buffs, Unfeazant might finally be somewhat viable, Seismitoad's mixed sets become more effective, and Quiver Dance Butterfree becomes even more dangerous. Of course, the NU tier apparently won't be opening for 6 or so months, but I'm still pretty excited about it.
This is just a coincidence but something I feel that is worth pointing out is that most of the Pokemon getting boosts are in one tier but viable in another - at least for a long amount of time. For example, Butterfree was already viable in RU as a Quiver Dance user, albeit somewhat out-classed by Lilligant, and was listed as NU. Nidoqueen was RU for ages but was so viable in UU it moved up there in usage. Very few Pokemon aren't effect by this:
Not counting total shitmons that aren't even viable in PU, so obviously can't be in NU that's like 3 Pokemon (Poliwrath, Alakazam, Krookodile and maybe Raichu) that don't fall under this, while many more do. Just an observation I don't even know. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that it seems like GameFreak chose the Pokemon well. They chose Pokemon in an awkward sort of limbo position between two tiers and this could be the edge to send them over into the next tier (unless you're a physical attacker with a special attack boost (*cough*Azumarill*cough*)) which is quite odd that they would have a metagame logic like that but IDK CARRY ON WITH YOUR LIVES NOW!
Beedrill (not even viable in PU)
Pidgeot (^)
Pikachu (^)
Raichu (somewhat, kinda on the fence here)
Wigglytuff (not even viable in PU)
Poliwrath (Just because UU has lots of bulky waters tbqh)
Alakazam (lol this needed a stat boost AND a mega evolution?)
Bellossom (not even viable in PU really, Masquerain out-classes as Quiver Dance user)
Beautifly (^)
Exploud (This thing gets boomburst things are changing for him, but I guess ^)
Unfezant (^)
Leavanny (not really viable in NU but it might be in PU lol)
Krookodile (should be RU anyway lmao)
Pidgeot (^)
Pikachu (^)
Raichu (somewhat, kinda on the fence here)
Wigglytuff (not even viable in PU)
Poliwrath (Just because UU has lots of bulky waters tbqh)
Alakazam (lol this needed a stat boost AND a mega evolution?)
Bellossom (not even viable in PU really, Masquerain out-classes as Quiver Dance user)
Beautifly (^)
Exploud (This thing gets boomburst things are changing for him, but I guess ^)
Unfezant (^)
Leavanny (not really viable in NU but it might be in PU lol)
Krookodile (should be RU anyway lmao)
Not counting total shitmons that aren't even viable in PU, so obviously can't be in NU that's like 3 Pokemon (Poliwrath, Alakazam, Krookodile and maybe Raichu) that don't fall under this, while many more do. Just an observation I don't even know. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that it seems like GameFreak chose the Pokemon well. They chose Pokemon in an awkward sort of limbo position between two tiers and this could be the edge to send them over into the next tier (unless you're a physical attacker with a special attack boost (*cough*Azumarill*cough*)) which is quite odd that they would have a metagame logic like that but IDK CARRY ON WITH YOUR LIVES NOW!
Wigglytuff got a massive buff this gen. Immunity to Ghost and Dragon, as well as resistance to Bug and Dark. 85 base Sp Atk is weak, but competitive is easy to activate and synergizes with Trick Room pretty well. Add in an impressive movepool, and I think it could move up to RU. But that's just a guess.
http://www.serebii.net/xy/updatedstats.shtml
As of the latest update, Bellossom got her base defense boosted to 95, while Beautifly got her SpAtt boosted to 100 (increase by 10 each).
I think it also makes sense to test for Dustox, and Politoed as well (since Poliwrath got a boost).
In fact, all the Pokemon with boosted base stats are part of a 3 stage evolutionary chain.
I think Machamp, Conkeldurr, Ludicolo, and Shiftry may also have had a boost to their stats.
As of the latest update, Bellossom got her base defense boosted to 95, while Beautifly got her SpAtt boosted to 100 (increase by 10 each).
I think it also makes sense to test for Dustox, and Politoed as well (since Poliwrath got a boost).
In fact, all the Pokemon with boosted base stats are part of a 3 stage evolutionary chain.
I think Machamp, Conkeldurr, Ludicolo, and Shiftry may also have had a boost to their stats.
I didn't talk about Wigglytuff being bad this gen but o_k.
You over-hyped this thing a lot. Why am I going to use Wigglytuff over Clefable? Yeah, I guess Wigglytuff is fairy/normal whereas Clefable and Granbull are pure Fairy, and Fairy patches up Normal's Fighting-Type weakness but even so that depends on team matchup quite a lot. My guess is Granbull will be good NU/Low RU and Wigglytuff will be mediocre-good NU, probably B rank NU Pokemon.
I loved using a rather gimmicky Stoutland set in BW. It would have Scrappy as its ability, and then just Protect and Last Resort. He took everyone by surprise and would often score 2-3 KOs each match for me. This Attack boost is going to be great for him, especially since I never ran Sand Rush.
Though Pikachu would rather have had its attack and special attack buffed 10 points it can still wreck shit if you know how to use it. I've made #1 in OU with Pikachu as my star player.
On a different note, I'm really hoping with the addition of Pokebank that our favorite rodent (Raticate, duh) gets a buff. +10 to attack or speed could really make a difference, though +5 to each is what it really wants.
No, i'm stating it has a niche. It DOES have easy ways to activate its ability, and it has some chances to shine.
Your opponent would have to be pretty terrible to lower your stats after seeing Wigglytuff, or any Pokemon with Competitive, in the team preview. Literally the only time Competitive would ever be helpful is against teams with Intimidate, but even so that requires some pretty fantastic prediction for a fairly lackluster chance to sweep anyway, due to the under-whelming speed. No niche.
Gyarados is still everywhere, Salamence is around, Mawile is popular as well, and Sticky Web is gaining some notice. Heck, stopping Sticky Web from being used is a use in of itself. It's a niche, but it's not a fantastic one. Oh, and Trick Room helps with the speed issue.
In singles I wouldn't say it doesn't have a niche purely because it can still run dual screens and Stealth Rock. It seems like Competitive would be better used in a low tier Doubles matchup where stat reducing moves run rampant, but other than that you still really shouldn't be trying to sweep with little Wigglytuff. Competitive is sort of a counteractive ability for what Wigglytuff does best - support.
EDIT: I also wouldn't waste my time utilizing Trick Room in singles with Wigglytuff. That is the definition of gimmicky when there are far better pokemon that do the job without needing to setup Trick Room and Competitive.
EDIT: I also wouldn't waste my time utilizing Trick Room in singles with Wigglytuff. That is the definition of gimmicky when there are far better pokemon that do the job without needing to setup Trick Room and Competitive.
It gives Wigglytuff another option, especially under Trick Room. Also, Wigglytuff never really did play a good support role, so it wouldn't miss the loss of the role. Again, I did say it could go up to RU. Not exactly an absurd statement, given that tier.
Poor Azumarill, why +10 to special attack and not attack? That's such a missed opportunity gamefreak! :c
Fine, let's use a Competitive Pokemon, I have a choice between:
Wigglytuff
Milotic
Gothitelle
Meowstic (female)
Ok I probably won't use Gothitelle unless complex bans happen this generation, allowing BL Gothitelle to stay in BL and Competitive to drop down to Wigglytuff's tier. Gothorita could be a possibility in lower tiers if you really want to use a Competitive Pokemon though. Milotic is the best Pokemon out of the bunch; bulky and now powerful, and he doesn't really have a need for the other abilities available to him, though Marvel Scale is nice. We don't really know how Meowstic (female) will play out but I'm willing to bet he will play out better than Wigglytuff.
Arch there are a hell of a lot of Pokemon that can run that.
Celever: /dexsearch Light Screen, Reflect, Stealth Rock, all: Clefairy, Clefable, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Mew, Pineco, Forretress, Magcargo, Swinub, Piloswine, Corsola, Smeargle, Celebi, Lunatone, Solrock, Baltoy, Claydol, Metang, Metagross, Jirachi, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra, Bronzor, Bronzong, Mamoswine, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Arceus, Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Dragon, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fairy, Arceus-Fighting, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Flying, Arceus-Ghost, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Poison, Arceus-Psychic, Arceus-Rock, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Water, Carbink
Ckarasu I feel like people think that RU is the shitmons tier NU the shit shitmons tier. Sceptile is very viable in UU, you have Slowking in RU, Druddigon in RU. Durant was banned from RU for a while but he's in it now. The pokemon in RU are not complete shit - Quagsire was a titan of Adv OU (I think, never really played the tier but I know a bit about it) and he's down in RU. Aggron can take out most of OU with Head Smashes and he's in RU, a hell of a lot of fantastic Pokemon that are being hyped this generation are in RU. Clefable, Galvantula, Absol, Aggron, Aerodactyl, Manectric. I would say that Cryogonal is viable in OU too looking at one I've seen people using - yet to try this though. Wigglytuff was shit in PU, Fairy-Type gives it a "niche" that leaves it flawed by Clefable still, even if Clefable moves up it has few niches, and most are not good ones.
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