Aggron (WIP)

[Pokemon Trainer AZ]

My first C&C, so please tell me if I left out something important or did something wrong

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Filter works wonders with pure Steel typing, helping with Mega Aggron's Fire, Fighting, and Ground weaknesses=.</li>
<li>Stealth Rock!=.</li>
<li>Reliable phazer with Roar / Dragon Tail (Though not as useful as last gen, thanks Defog)=.</li>
<li>Horrendous 50 Speed can be somewhat patched up by Thunder Wave and Rock Polish=.</li>
<li>Mega Aggron's 230 Defense is kind of horrifying, especially with Filter, and 70 HP is okay.</li>
<li>140 Attack is also horrifying, plus great physical movepool</li>
<li>Steel STAB makes Xerneas cry, plus Fairy resistance
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>No reliable recovery</li>
<li>80 Special Defense with 70 HP in Ubers is really sad, so Mega Aggron can usually only tank physical attacks</li>
<li>Cannot function without Mega Stone in Ubers, taking up team's mega slot</li>
<li>Aggron lost important Ghost and Dark resistance in Gen 6, making it vulnerable to Yveltal and somewhat Aegislash</li>
<li>Loses Rock STAB in Mega form; Steel STAB isn't great outside of killing Fairies</li>
<li>Defog blows away Aggron's Stealth Rock, can't be avoided</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Please don't use regular Aggron in Ubers</p>

[Mega Evolution Recommendations and Play]

<p>Aggron @ Aggronite <br />
Ability: Sturdy (Filter) <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk <br />
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock<br />
- Thunder Wave / Roar / Dragon Tail<br />
- Earthquake / Stone Edge<br />
- Iron Head / Iron Tail</p>

-Awesome defensive Tank
-EVs can be put into Special Defense but not recommended; it's still pretty low and special tanking isn't Aggron's job
-Thunder Wave cripples opposing sweepers
-Roar and Dragon Tail phaze with Stealth Rock
-Earthquake / Stone Edge for coverage (Earthquake recommended for Mega Gengar)
-Steel STAB mainly for Xerneas
-Iron Head has 80 power but perfect accuracy and 30% flinch chance; strongly recommended over Iron Tail, which has 100 power but trashy 75% accuracy

<p>Aggron @ Aggronite <br />
Ability: Sturdy (Filter) <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe <br />
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe) or Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk) <br />
- Iron Head / Iron Tail<br />
- Stone Edge / Superpower<br />
- Earthquake<br />
- Fire Blast / Ice Beam / Thunder Wave</p>

-Pretty horrifying physical tank
-Will see more use when Pokebank is released to check a certain Normal type goat-shaped legendary
-Iron Head / Tail makes Xerneas cry
-Head for perfect accuracy and 30% flinch chance, Tail
-Stone Edge / Superpower are great coverage and check Yveltal
-Earthquake for opposing Steel-types and Aegislash
-Fire Blast for Ferrothorn, Ice Beam for Zygarde, but Thunder Wave is probably the most useful
-Brave if using Fire Blast or Ice Beam, Adamant with Thunder Wave

<p>Aggron @ Aggronite <br />
Ability: Sturdy (Filter) <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk <br />
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Rest<br />
- Sleep Talk<br />
- Dragon Tail / Roar<br/>
- Iron Head / Iron Tail</p>

-Rest is Aggron's only recovery
-Partner with Spikes strongly recommended
-Spinblocker or priority Taunt user to block Defog encouraged (Sableye can do both!)
-Dragon Tail is useful for phazing out Dragon Dance Zygarde
-Potentially very reliable for checking Swords Dancing Normal type goats
-A coverage move like Stone Edge is noteworthy over Sleep Talk because of the new sleep mechanics
[Checks and Counters]
-Basically all special sweepers, mainly Mega Mewtwo Y
-Mega Gengar, but is KOed by Earthquake
-Ferrothorn tanks Aggron the whole day, can set up hazards
-Must be careful of specially offensive Yveltal sets
-Even with Filter, Mega Aggron hates Focus Blast, which is everywhere
-Zygarde, #1 counter, Aggron can barely do shit to it besides Ice Beam, Dragon Claw works okay
-Watch out for Dark and Ghost attacks; Aggron doesn't resist them anymore!

 

[Jibaku]

Heavy Slam has 40 BP vs Xerneas

 

[Pokemon Trainer AZ]

Thanks, Heavy Slam removed

 

[shrang]

I'd suggest a RestTalk set with Rest/Sleep Talk/STAB/phazing move in there somewhere - for such a bulky Pokemon that has no Leftovers, you'd kind of want recovery

 

[trickroom]

You mean Impish nature for the first set.

Make shrang's set, with Rest and Sleep Talk, with the new mechanics, Mega Aggron can pull it off well, as it has no other way to recover. Mega Gengar dies to Earthquake, Iron Tail hits it for massive damage.

<p>Aggron @ Aggronite <br />
Ability: Sturdy (Filter) <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk <br />
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Rest<br />
- Sleep Talk<br />
- Dragon Tail / Roar<br/>
- Iron Head / Iron Tail</p>

EVs can be put into SpD, but still low anyway and Aggron no longer resists Ghost/Dark. Base 230 is huge, mention you can put those EVs elsewhere after maxing HP. I don't know about the Rock Polish set, I don't think it works well.

 

[Donkey]

You mean Impish nature for the first set.

Make shrang's set, with Rest and Sleep Talk, with the new mechanics, Mega Aggron can pull it off well, as it has no other way to recover. Mega Gengar dies to Earthquake, Iron Tail hits it for massive damage.

<p>Aggron @ Aggronite <br />
Ability: Sturdy (Filter) <br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk <br />
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Rest<br />
- Sleep Talk<br />
- Dragon Tail / Roar<br/>
- Iron Head / Iron Tail</p>

EVs can be put into SpD, but still low anyway and Aggron no longer resists Ghost/Dark. Base 230 is huge, mention you can put those EVs elsewhere after maxing HP. I don't know about the Rock Polish set, I don't think it works well.

Why even use Sleep Talk

 

[Pokemon Trainer AZ]

Thanks trickroom, Impish on first set
Also thanks shrang and trickroom for the RestTalk set, added it

Why even use Sleep Talk

I sure as hell won't but RestTalk still works to an extent. Since Aggron can't use Leftovers, it needs the recovery.
Aggron might even be better at phazing this gen than Giratina, with Xerneas everywhere. Honestly though, I have no idea how phazing's gonna be very useful in Gen 6 Ubers, especially since Lugia and Arceus and a few other Pokebanked legendaries get Defog. And spin blocking definitely won't be nearly as useful, though Aggron still will really appreciate a Ghost as a partner
Defog Skarmory is probably a better phazer than Aggron

 

[Pokemon Trainer AZ]

[quote="trickroom, post:
I don't know about the Rock Polish set, I don't think it works well.[/quote]
It probably won't but I definitely want to experiment with it, especially with the Sturdy bonus. Thunder Wave is definitely much better though. I still haven't decided if Aggron would benefit much from Sticky Web in Ubers with its ugly 50 base Speed. Anyway, I can't see who's going to set up Sticky Web in Ubers with everyone using Smeargle for Geomancy passing.

 

[Donkey]

Thanks trickroom, Impish on first set
Also thanks shrang and trickroom for the RestTalk set, added it

I sure as hell won't but RestTalk still works to an extent. Since Aggron can't use Leftovers, it needs the recovery.
Aggron might even be better at phazing this gen than Giratina, with Xerneas everywhere. Honestly though, I have no idea how phazing's gonna be very useful in Gen 6 Ubers, especially since Lugia and Arceus and a few other Pokebanked legendaries get Defog. And spin blocking definitely won't be nearly as useful, though Aggron still will really appreciate a Ghost as a partner
Defog Skarmory is probably a better phazer than Aggron

You misunderstood my post, I understand that Rest is used for recovery. With the new sleep mechanics, the timer for rest does not reset. I'm wondering what Aggron is going to be walling that mandates it to run Dragon Tail and Sleep Talk instead of Rest/Steel move/Rock move/Dragon Tail.

In response to your second comment: I use sticky web in ubers : )

 

[Pokemon Trainer AZ]

You misunderstood my post, I understand that Rest is used for recovery. With the new sleep mechanics, the timer for rest does not reset. I'm wondering what Aggron is going to be walling that mandates it to run Dragon Tail and Sleep Talk instead of Rest/Steel move/Rock move/Dragon Tail.
In response to your second comment: I use sticky web in ubers : )

I was confused about the new sleep mechanics, I had no idea. So if Aggron uses Rock coverage over Sleep Talk, I guess it'll need to be partnered with a cleric like Chansey? Or not? I can see them maybe being a common defensive core either way. I'll put Stone Edge as an option on the Rest set, thanks.
I should probably try a Sticky Web Smeargle lead set (unless you use Galvantula hurr durr)

 

[trickroom]

Donkey is just trying to say Aggron can remain asleep for 2 turns without needing to use Sleep Talk, because the counter will not reset every time you switch out. Pairing with a cleric helps, but Aggron will usually be OK being useless for 2 turns. Yeah Stone Edge or Head Smash because you need the power to deal serious damage to Ho-Oh even with a burn

 

[shrang]

You misunderstood my post, I understand that Rest is used for recovery. With the new sleep mechanics, the timer for rest does not reset. I'm wondering what Aggron is going to be walling that mandates it to run Dragon Tail and Sleep Talk instead of Rest/Steel move/Rock move/Dragon Tail.

In response to your second comment: I use sticky web in ubers : )

I don't like this. Just because Aggron can wake up in 2 turns, a free turn is still a free turn for the opponent. You still have to click an attack to see "Aggron is fast asleep!" for you to burn up a turn, in which your opponent can switch whatever they want to do whatever they want. You're basically giving them the equivalent of what Wobbuffet does but without the Wobbuffet. The sleep counter didn't reset in DPP (and GSC/RSE) either, yet we still used Sleep Talk, and for very reason. The only thing I can think that was an exception to this rule was Curselax, but that was because not much could even kill Snorlax even with the two turns (I guess Shuckle as well, but Shuckle is so stupid it doesn't count). Giving your opponent a free turn is something I'd never support.

 

[Donkey]

I don't like this. Just because Aggron can wake up in 2 turns, a free turn is still a free turn for the opponent. You still have to click an attack to see "Aggron is fast asleep!" for you to burn up a turn, in which your opponent can switch whatever they want to do whatever they want. You're basically giving them the equivalent of what Wobbuffet does but without the Wobbuffet. The sleep counter didn't reset in DPP (and GSC/RSE) either, yet we still used Sleep Talk, and for very reason. The only thing I can think that was an exception to this rule was Curselax, but that was because not much could even kill Snorlax even with the two turns (I guess Shuckle as well, but Shuckle is so stupid it doesn't count). Giving your opponent a free turn is something I'd never support.

I'd agree with you if this was gen 5, but in gen 6 I've found there are a ton of opportunities to get free turns. I've been using Rest + 3 attacks Palkia to shut down annoying Scald Roar Ogre, and with the absence of hazards it works really well. I feel like Aggron suffers from 4mss really badly, if you don't roll Dragon Tail on the sleep talk Ho-Oh is getting a free turn anyways. It's all about team support, and since there are less boosters (mainly SD Arceus/Xerneas/mmx/mmy), just make sure you don't rely on Aggron to beat one of these threats. Stone Edge is hard to pass up on Aggron.

For an example of things that give Aggron free turns: support arceus, lugia, giratina, aegislash, bronzong, skarmory, ttar, genesect, any scarf/specs/band locked into something weak. The main issue I see is SD Arceus setting up, Ho-oh setting up, and Mega Gar trapping you.

If you run Low Kick/Iron Head/Stone Edge/Rest, SD arceus and ho-oh become less threatening in general. This also gives you an offensive pivot that can absorb status.

edit: sorry i keep writing this in terms of pokebank ubers, but regardless, my point is the same: Aggron is a pivot and not a wall imo

 

[shrang]

A pivot is something that's supposed to give you an advantage on the switch-in. What a Resting Pokemon without Sleep Talk does is give your opponent 2 free turns to do whatever they want. I know there are less boosters, but they exist all the same. You want to be giving free SDs to Rayquaza and what have you, in whatever metagame you're playing. I'm pretty sure double switching does not eat up your sleep turn. I know it has 4MSS, but you can always drop something like Iron Head or even your phazing move if you really needed.

If you run Low Kick/Iron Head/Stone Edge/Rest, SD arceus and ho-oh become less threatening in general

They become more threatening, IMO. All they have to do is wear you down with something else and force you to Rest. Then they come in for free (not like Ekiller and Ho-oh can't stick around), and now you're counter-less.

 

[asterat]

Your EV spreads seem kind of lame and not so well though out tbh. Also the third set makes no sense at all, without LO or anything aggron will not sweep anybody who has something defensive like a skarmory, forretress, any water type tbh, etc. Remove it completely, I'm pretty adamant about this (not QC or anything but still.) I know there are better ways to divide up your EVs than the way you did. Investing a whole lot in defense is kind of unnecessary, almost every time aggron will end up going down to a special attack. Also the boost is relatively small percentage wise and unless you can think of something really specific max/max does I would invest very little in defense. I get that you can hit xerneas with iron head, but with no investment HP whatever will come close to killing which is not good at all. I would try to figure something out where you invest in SpD and attack, with some left over for HP and a little for defense. You shouldn't just max out aggron's highest stat in every way possible, it isn't completely one dimensional.


No special attacks.

 

[Blue Jay]

Your EV spreads seem kind of lame and not so well though out tbh. Also the third set makes no sense at all, without LO or anything aggron will not sweep anybody who has something defensive like a skarmory, forretress, any water type tbh, etc. Remove it completely, I'm pretty adamant about this (not QC or anything but still.) I know there are better ways to divide up your EVs than the way you did. Investing a whole lot in defense is kind of unnecessary, almost every time aggron will end up going down to a special attack. Also the boost is relatively small percentage wise and unless you can think of something really specific max/max does I would invest very little in defense. I get that you can hit xerneas with iron head, but with no investment HP whatever will come close to killing which is not good at all. I would try to figure something out where you invest in SpD and attack, with some left over for HP and a little for defense. You shouldn't just max out aggron's highest stat in every way possible, it isn't completely one dimensional.


No special attacks.

Have you seen other EV spreads? The vast majority are highly specialized, and any that aren't have very specific purposes (outspeeding a certain threat, avoiding a KO from an important threat, scoring a specific KO, etc). Aggron's special bulk is far beyond redemption, regardless of investment most neutral special attacks will 2HKO it. It doesn't pay off when his maximally invested special bulk rivals that of an average uninvested Uber.

Such an EV spread is inefficient at any rate. With very few exceptions, anything looking to use its defensive stats begins by maximizing HP EVs. The overall bulk gained from that is so much more efficient than investing purely in one defensive stat.

 

[Unowninator]

Another con is that it loses the Sandstorm boost when it Mega evolves. So if you have Tyranitar as a partner, it may be good idea to hold off on Mega evolving, especially when Reshiram comes out, who's TurboBlaze will override Filter.

 

[Pokemon Trainer AZ]

Your EV spreads seem kind of lame and not so well though out tbh. Also the third set makes no sense at all, without LO or anything aggron will not sweep anybody who has something defensive like a skarmory, forretress, any water type tbh, etc. Remove it completely, I'm pretty adamant about this (not QC or anything but still.) I know there are better ways to divide up your EVs than the way you did. Investing a whole lot in defense is kind of unnecessary, almost every time aggron will end up going down to a special attack. Also the boost is relatively small percentage wise and unless you can think of something really specific max/max does I would invest very little in defense. I get that you can hit xerneas with iron head, but with no investment HP whatever will come close to killing which is not good at all. I would try to figure something out where you invest in SpD and attack, with some left over for HP and a little for defense. You shouldn't just max out aggron's highest stat in every way possible, it isn't completely one dimensional.
No special attacks.

Aggron's highest stat is its defense, not attack. Aggron has no reliable way to boost its attack, its speed is hopeless, its special bulk sucks like Blue Jay said. So its defense and HP are really the only things worth investing in for the defensive sets, and the attack and HP for the offensive ones. With options like Lugia and specially defensive Kyogre and about fifty others, there's no reason investing in Aggron's special defense; it won't help. The third set does suck, I only put it there since Aggron's speed is its main problem. Sorry for not being creative enough, just being practical.
Do you see Fire Blast and Ice Beam?
Edit: removed speed boosting set

 

[syzygian]

I'd like to know what OHKOs/2HKOs a mon with filter/230 defense avoids by investing EVs in defense, specifically. I disagree that you should invest in Atk/SpD, but a set with Max HP/SpD with an Impish nature to take advantage of that defense stat (since nature boosts are multiplicative and EV boosts are additive) would get you the best overall bulk across the board, imo, if you're using a defensive set.

 

[King Murdoc]

I'd like to know what OHKOs/2HKOs a mon with filter/230 defense avoids by investing EVs in defense, specifically. I disagree that you should invest in Atk/SpD, but a set with Max HP/SpD with an Impish nature to take advantage of that defense stat (since nature boosts are multiplicative and EV boosts are additive) would get you the best overall bulk across the board, imo, if you're using a defensive set.

I'd like to know what OHKOs/2HKOs a mon with filter/230 defense avoids by investing EVs in defense, specifically. I disagree that you should invest in Atk/SpD, but a set with Max HP/SpD with an Impish nature to take advantage of that defense stat (since nature boosts are multiplicative and EV boosts are additive) would get you the best overall bulk across the board, imo, if you're using a defensive set.