[Gen V] The Moustachioed Man and the Spaghetti Monster

[Valafar123]

Introduction​

Hello Smogonites. It's been an eternity since I last attempted laddering, so I thought to myself "Why not".

I'm currently ranked #19 on the ladder with a score of 1883, but peaked at 1919. Ended going down a bit due to Showdown being in limbo between 5th and 6th gen a while ago which caused me some frustration when my Sleep Powders were failing against Grass-types even on the Gen V ladder, which did cause some unfortunate losses and the team at the time being less well balanced.

Current ladder: http://i.imgur.com/3dSMnTd.png

I'm fairly happy with the team so far. The basic objective of the team is to paralyse faster opponents with either Stun Spore or Thunder Wave from Tangela and Probopass respectively, and then hammer home with slower offensive threats like Sawk, Golurk and Samurott. The team does take prediction to use properly otherwise you lose offensive momentum with the team. I'm not sure what to classify this team as personally, so I'll let commenters decide.

Anyway, I'll get on with the team now. It is cookie cutter to some extent, but there are custom sets too.

The Team

Noodles (Tangela) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 4 SAtk / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Knock Off

The first half of our defensive core is Noodles the Tangela.

Noodles' physical bulk is simply phenomenal, hitting 540. I typically EV my HP to be odd in order to reduce hazard damage. The defences are also odd in order to maximise efficiency of Eviolite. To my knowledge, stat calculations use the INT function, so having a 540.5 defence stat would cause it to round down, not up. People can feel free to correct me since that's only an assumption. The 4 EVs in Sp. Atk can be invested in speed if one prefers to out-speed opposing Tangela over a small increase in power. The IVs in attack are to counteract confusion and Foul Play damage, and I do this on all Pokemon with no physical attacks.

Noodles' can easily switch in on Golurk, Sawk, Primepare or any other physical attacker with impunity. Just for reference on how extreme this bulk is, Banded Adamant Sawk's Ice Punch only does 41.44 - 48.94% damage to Noodles, meaning that it cannot 2HKO Noodles even after Stealth Rock. Unlike the more common Alomomola, Noodles actually threatens the pokemon it walls with a commendable base 100 Sp. Atk and an arsenal of debilitating support moves, allowing you to maintain momentum and prevent 2HKO's by pokemon like Sawk.

Sleep Powder aids in gaining switch opportunities for the team, allowing you to switch in your premier offensive threats safely and then inflict sever damage to the opponent. Stun Spore lets you paralyse faster pokemon or a sneaky Primeape switch, making it much easier for the rest of the team to handle. Giga Drain is a strong STAB move that also heals Noodles, making it even harder to take down. Finally, Knock Off completes the set, ruining pokemon who are dependant on their items, such as Eviolite users.

Of course we have Regenerator as our ability just to make Noodles live even longer, but this should be a given.

Come Gen VI, Grass-types will start giving Tangela issues since it can't do anything with resisted STAB or double Powder. Ludicolo especially will set up in your face with the change since it can absorb dual powders.

• Sludge Bomb for Grass weakness (Gen VI)
• Hidden Power Ice for Sawsbuck and Miltank weakness. Sawsbuck is too rare to warrant a dedicated moveslot, and Sludge Bomb hits it harder. Noodles can't do anything to the cow either way.
• Hidden Power Rock for Scolipede weakness.
• Leech Seed over Knock Off. Removing Eviolites and Scarves is more important than yet another recovery method on a Pokemon that's function is not to stall.
• 248 / 0 / 136 / 0 / 124 / 0 spread to prevent Ludicolo having a chance to OHKO.

Super Moai Bros. (Probopass) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Power Gem
- Volt Switch

The second half of our defensive core is Super Moai Bros. the Probopass, who serves as our universal special wall and flying counter. SMB's role is effectively the special answer to Noodles, and they form a formidable defensive core. SMB resists the Ice and is immune to Poison, making it a good partner for Tangela. Its Sp. Def is great enough to stay in on Fire-types also. Tangela can also switch in happily on all the physical Fighting, Ground and Water-types that SMB doesn't want to fight. Just to put into perspective how bulky SMB is, Timid Jynx's 4x Super Effective Focus Blast does 80.49 - 95.35%, so you won't even be taken down to your Sturdy (which is important if Rocks are up). SMB also hard walls most Psychic, Ghost, Dark and Flying-types. Haunter isn't even guaranteed a 2HKO with HP Ground / Fighting, which is pretty amazing when you think about it.

SMB is our Stealth Rocker and only hazard user. The hazards can be used on free turns or be set up more immediately if the opponent uses Jynx, Charizard or any other hazard-weak Pokemon. Thunder Wave completes the paralysis core with Noodles, allowing us to paralyse virtually anything. Power Gem is our STAB move and and does decent damage to anything weak to it, and has a good chance to OHKO Charizard even without investment, which is always nice. Volt Switch allows us to take a hit and then switch out into an aggressive Pokemon to threaten the opponent out and hit something extremely hard.

Our ability is Sturdy because we have no way to capitalise on either Magnet Pull or Sand Force. Leftovers gives us an awful lot of survivability allowing us to stay in on resisted hits nearly indefinitely, and has certainly granted me the ability to restore my Sturdy on several occasions.

One does have to be particularly wary of Ground-types, however. Proper prediction will let you double switch into them with something to KO them, however. I can't stress how important it is to not let a Ground-type come in on a Volt Switch or Thunder Wave since it resets your momentum and normally leaves it up to Noodles to try and salvage it.

Come Gen VI he does lose two resistances, but absolute lack of good Dark-types (currently) in the tier and the fact that most Ghost-types couldn't even scratch our iron-clad plumber lookalike anyway does balance things out. Tangela deals with physical Cacturne, Shiftry and Golurk, and SMB still deals with the special sets of the two former. The Fairy resistance may come into play too, but I doubt there will be any good Fairy-types in the tier. If there are, one can run Sludge Bomb on Tangela to counteract its new Grass weakness and the Fairy-type all at once.

• Toxic to take on Musharna one-on-one. Paralysis support is more important on an offensive team and Musharna isn't important enough to warrant a dedicated counter.
• 248 / 0 / 0 / 56 / 204 / 0 spread to possibly 2HKO Jynx and always OHKO uninvested Charizard.

Dobby is Free (Sawk) @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge

Sock is our cookie cutter Choice Bander. We should all know from experience how astonishingly powerful Sock is. After the opposing team is paralysed and the opponent's Ghost-types are removed, Sawk can run town. Nothing that isn't Alomomola, Tangela, Musharna or maybe Misdreavus really like to switch into this thing. All of the above have a solid counter on this team. The EV spread maximises our power and gives us enough speed to outpace any paralysed pokemon and punch a new anus for any slower Pokemon naïve enough to think they can take the hit.

We go with Mold Breaker to beat Sturdy users, and to OHKO Eelektross (although the Smogon set is OHKO'd by Close Combat anyway). Basically most lead hazard setters are OHKO'd. There isn't any point to using Sturdy on Sock since most of the time it will be broken by a hazard and there's no way to restore it. In my personal experience, Mold Breaker is definitely the go-to ability for the banded set.

Do not attempt to bring this in on Golurk since Ice Punch is not guaranteed OHKO and it will retaliate and kill you. Stick to relying on Noodles for Golurk.

Do not attempt to spam Close Combat when the opponent's Alomomola / equivalent is alive, instead double switch into something to handle them more appropriately or you'll lose a lot of momentum and you need initiative on those walls to stop them crippling your checks. Like Probopass, proper prediction is absolutely vital to use Sock.

Magnus (Golurk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

Magnus is primarily here for his wonderful immunities to Fighting, Normal and Electric; strong offensive presence and his ability to tank hits. It's unnecessary to carry Stealth Rock on this set. One wonderful thing about Magnus is that he outspeeds the Smogon set by one point, meaning he wins the one-on-one most of the time. No Guard sets cannot OHKO Magnus with anything, which is lovely if you intend to teach those who bank on hax a lesson in sportsmanship. Conversely, Magnus has a 31.25% chance to KO other Golurks with Shadow Punch, which is very nice. It also has the chance to OHKO Misdreavus with Shadow Punch provided Noodles did its job in removing its Eviolite, and definitely OHKOs after rocks and a little Knock Off damage.

We're running Iron Fist because we're good sports that don't like to bank on hax (and I find banking on confusion builds very poor habits) and we want to have more power on our Ghost STAB. Iron Fist also grants us a 90 base power Ice Punch and Drain Punch, which is very nice for coverage and longevity.

We're running Leftovers to keep Magnus alive for longer, which does come into play quite often. Especially because we have a reliable recover move in Drain Punch. Leftovers also helps Magnus get one more switch if it survives a big hit on a smidgeon of HP, which does matter since Magnus can still be used as a cleaner late-game when it doesn't have to worry about being out-sped as badly.

Magnus is a tank, so play him sparingly. Not much OHKOs him, but he will be 2HKO'd by an awful lot of Pokemon, so keeping him healthy really comes into play when you need him to take a hit in order to win.

He does share a lot of coverage with Sock, but it's good coverage so it doesn't really matter. We're not running Stone Edge because I don't trust the accuracy (it's barely used on Sock for that reason). Sawk will tend to be your early game offensive Pokemon to do massive damage to everything, and then Magnus can clean up most of the scraps later.

Again, the paralysis core really helps with Magnus because he is somewhat sluggish. Same rule regarding physical walls also applies to Magnus.

Do be wary of Skuntanks. Again, double switch if your predict them. If they're in, it's your call as to what move to make.

• Banded set for more power. Excessive number of Choice users would result, and needing to change moves is important.
• Expert Belt for stronger coverage.
• Switch to Kangaskhan. Used to be a part of the team, but got cut because it lacked immunities, power and coverage.

Voltergeist (Rotom-Fan) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick

Voltergeist the rotary Rotom's job is a simple one. He's there to maintain offensive pressure with a fast Volt Switch to complement SMB's slow Volt Switch, beat Scolipede leads with the 30% flinch with Air Slash, provide lovely Flying-type coverage, and make sure opposing defensive walls don't get up to any shenanigans by tricking them a Choice Scarf and rendering them useless for the remainder of the game. Do be wary of Primeapes that want to ruin your fun by switching in on Trick. Luckily you have Air Slash to beat them if you predict properly.

Voltergeist also ruins teams if it gets hold of Eviolites, since you can potentially cripple one Pokemon and leave yet another with a redundant item. Getting a hold of Leftovers is also a pretty nice deal since Voltergeist does have some decent natural bulk even without investment.

Unfortunately, Voltergeist has the same issue as Probopass: it's completely walled by Ground-types. It also has a weakness to Stealth Rocks which is unfortunate. Fortunately, almost all Stealth Rockers in the tier are OHKO'd by various parts of this team, so it's not a massive deal. He also has an unfortunate Ice weakness, which does add up with Tangela and Golurk. The team does have two resists, but you have to be careful.

Voltergeist has one particular niche that offsets his flaws: Stall teams absolutely despise him. They hate the way he looks, they hate the way he dresses (I mean who would wear such an ugly scarf?). They even hate the way he smells (mildly of office appliances). He's immune to both types of Spikes (notably Toxic Spikes), can Trick annoying stalling Pokemon and render them totally useless, beat lead Scolipede rather easily, and threaten physical walls like Alomomola and Tangela rather badly. Being equipped to deal with that is absolutely critical when one reaches the 1700+ ratings where people often resort to stall for freebie wins. It's doubly important with such an aggressive team.

Come Gen VI, he also gets a paralysis immunity, which is absolutely fantastic for him.

If you're worried about not having enough Ground counters, you can also run Air Balloon instead.

Unicorn (Samurott) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Taunt

The most recent addition to the team, our rainbow-spewing Unicorn. I looked far and wide for a strong special attacker that was ideally Water-type (to help take ice-type hits) and arrived at Unicorn. Unicorn really helps round off the team.

I'm going with the Smogon EV spread for now until I have a reason not to. Samurott packs the power that other specially offensive pokemon simply lack in NU. Over my time of playing NU, which stems back to around when Jynx was move down, I have noticed a severe lack of strong special attackers that aren't made of papier-mâché. Eelektross, Musharna and Duosion are the only others that come to mind that break the 100 base Sp. Atk threshold. I've used all of the above extensively, but for some reason never got around to trying a Samurott until recently. Needless to say, I've fallen in love with my Unicorn.

The Life Orb boosted Water/Ice coverage is very nice, and really helps deal with the Ground-types of the tier, only the rare Onix and invested Seismitoad out-speed our Unicorn. Grass Knot is there specifically for Seismitoad (who may thing you are physical) and against Ground/Rock types when you don't want to risk Hydro Pump. Hidden Power Grass is basically the same thing in most instances. Because of the upcoming nerf, Grass Knot will be better in virtually all scenarios except versus very obscure things like Luvdisc.

I'll be upfront about it: I dislike Hydro Pump because of its accuracy, but I'm rolling with it for now.

Taunt helps beat shenanigans and stops any tricky plays. Taunt also means you can use the Tanglepass with 100% safety.

• Megahorn to deal with Jynx and Ludicolo.

Previous Teammates​

Ditto was fun and helped here and there, but could never take any sort of hits and always failed to KO. A better scarfer was needed. Ditto → Rotom-Fan.

Eelektross never really meshed with the team for some reason. Its coverage was amazing, but it always died really early even with invested bulk. Eelektross → Ludicolo.

Ludicolo is a good Pokemon, but with only 5 turns of rain and its extreme weakness to residual damage, as well as having too many Water-types and Grass-types, it got cut. Ludicolo → Samurott.

Basculin was the Scarfer at the time since it out-sped all the meta threats and could KO Jynx with Crunch, but it was just generally really weak and couldn't even KO Primeape unless it CC'd. There was also a massive physical attacker build-up on the team which gave me massive issues with Tangela and Alomomola. Basculin → Ditto.

This was originally a gimmick team that lead with Dual Screen Memento Gardevoir and then set up with Sub DD Fraxure. It won a few games but was very unreliable. Gardevoir & Fraxure → Ludicolo and Basculin.

I wanted a counter to the bloody Assistcat at the time, and she was it. Kangaskhan is a good Pokemon and deals with things with priority attacking, but lacked the coverage I wanted, had an unfortunate Fighting-type weakness and lack of delicious immunities that her successor had got her cut. Kangaskhan → Golurk.

Lairon is a fantastic Pokemon with good defences and very scary offensive power, but didn't fit in with what I needed for the team. Its successor had a better move pool and better defences even though it lacked the raw offensive might of Head Smash. Lairon → Probopass.

Dealing with the Meta​

I'll do a quick run down of the top 10 Pokemon according to September's usage standard stats and how I deal with them.

Noodles walls this completely. There is no variant that can hurt it. Magnus should beat most sets one-on-one also. Unicorn also deals with it. No Guard sets are the easiest to deal with since you don't have to worry about Sleep Powder, Stun Spore or Hydro Pump missing. Sock's Stone Edge does about 30% too, and you won't have to worry about missing.

Again, Noodles walls it. Banded Adamant Ice Punch stings a bit, but you still beat it one-on-one. Magnus can come in on Close Combats. Voltergeist can revenge it, and it can take one Close Combat even after Stealth Rock if you're in a really desperate position. If it's paralysed it basically gets a large target painted on its head.

You can Taunt it with Unicorn, and Trick it with Voltergeist. These things are always physically invested too, so it doesn't really like taking on either of them long term either. Magnus beats it if its weakened, and has an easier time if it's struggling with paralysis. Don't be afraid to let it Synchronise paralysis to SMB either.

Sock OHKOs with both Close Combat and Earthquake. If you didn't get switch initiative with Sock, you will have to scout what set it is, which can be dangerous. Probopass has no problems with special sets, and Tangela has no problems with physical sets. Do watch out for mixed Superpowers though. Sock is the best way to kill it.

SMB walls it if it doesn't have Focus Blast. Even if it does, you can take one if it's not boosted or Modest. The best way to deal with it is try to get Stealth Rock up early or sneak a paralysis in there. As a last resort you can use both of your Volt Switchers in tandem to wear it down. Do not let it switch in to Hydro Pump. As we all know, there's no good way to deal with Jynx. Why it's NU baffles me. That said, it can be dealt with and only substitute users pose a real threat.

It literally can't do anything to Noodles. Not even with Ice Punch or U-Turn.

Voltergeist is your best bet. If they switch, you should absolutely get Rocks up immediately to break the sash. It will leave NU next generation anyway thanks to the buff, so that should make life easier.

Play carefully with your physical attackers and try to let either Noodles put it to sleep, SMB take obvious Toxic, Voltergeist Trick it or T Bolt it or Samurott Taunt it. The team is well armed to deal with it and it's very important that you kill it as quickly as possible.

SMB walls it, but be wary of Specs or Focus Blast. Just get Rocks up early or even better: Thunder Wave it as it switches in to the predicted Stealth Rock. Power Gem normally OHKO's this thing. Golurk can take one hit from non-specs and hit it hard with Shadow Punch if you did weaken it.

SMB walls it. Don't fall for the obvious Sub Disable shenanigans. Magnus can take a hit and OHKO, but only once. You can predict its switch in with Magnus or Sock and kill it too.

Other Threats​

Piloswine's dual STAB is really hard to switch in to with this team, even for Noodles. Icicle Spear does an awful lot of damage. Luckily, Noodles does out-speed it, so you can potentially sleep it or Knock Off. Sock can OHKO with Close Combat too, which is nice if you get the lead.

Camerupt is a pain to deal with, especially Life Orb Rock Polish sets. Sock and Unicorn can OHKO all the time, but Magnus can only KO variants that do not invest largely into physical defence. It's the same issue as with Piloswine: its dual STAB breaks the defensive core. Camerupt is also immune to Thunder Wave so Rock Polish can't be counteracted without Voltergeist (who still outspeeds it after Rock Polish, but can't do anything back).

You need to scout Miltank properly or it will give you problems. Don't switch in Magnus until you know without a doubt that it's not a Scrappy set, because the risk of Body Slam is very real. Do not switch in Probopass until you know she does not carry Earthquake. Be wary with Tangela of Sap Sipper sets. The best way to probe is to switch Tangela in to something else, and then Knock Off regardless of what they do. If they bring in the Miltank it's Sap Sipper. If not, it's Scrappy or Thick Fat which means Tangela is a hard counter for it. If they did, it's Sap Sipper and Magnus should wall it. Sock also OHKOs if you get the initiative, but don't forget the cow is fast.

I group these two together because they're threats for the same reason. Sock outspeeds and OHKOs both of them if they didn't Shell Smash. You can prevent them setting up on you by using Thunder Wave too. Carracosta is totally walled by Noodles provided it doesn't carry Ice Beam. Voltergeist still out-speeds both of them after Shell Smash and can hit them for super effective damage. I guess Huntail also fits this group too.

Seismitoad is a pain to deal with sometimes. Both Noodles and Unicorn OHKO it, and it's important you try to make that happen. Its ability to ruin your Electric coverage is really unfortunate. If you expect it to lead, use Unicorn as its far less predictable.

Sawsbuck is fairly uncommon, so it's not the most heinous weakness on the team (that title still belongs to Camerupt's Francois set). Noodles, our dedicated physical wall can't actually touch Sawsbuck outside of Knock Off thanks to Sap Sipper, and SMB can't deal with it due to Jump Kick / Nature Power (Earthquake). It also out-speeds Sock, and has coverage for most of the team. Fortunately, Voltergeist does 94.03 - 111.25% with Air Slash, with a 62.5% chance to OHKO. Sub SD sets will be an issue, but they typically only run Dual STAB meaning that SMB can theoretically take it on. It's also OHKO'd by all of the super effective coverage on the team, but it out-speeding again presents an issue.

Conclusion​

Overall I'm fairly pleased with how this team has evolved over the past month or so. The Ice-type weakness is unfortunate, but manageable most of the time. The team generally handles most of the meta, although it doesn't like stall that much.

As far as I remember, this is my first RMT, so go easy on me. :) Let me know how I did, and also if I broke any rules that I wasn't aware of. Feel free to leave corrections, and constructive criticism is appreciated. Also, if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I'm bound to have skipped over things.[/CODE]

 

[atomicllamas]

Hey, so this is actually a pretty good team, really good for someone's first rmt n_n.

I do have some suggestions though, as your team does have a weakness to both Jynx and Scolipede, the two best Pokemon in the tier. The easiest fix for jynx, is to replace taunt and samurott with megahorn, as even uninvested this can OHKO Jynx with ease. Currently probopass is switching into jynx, and absorbing th sleep, which makes it impossible for it to continually check jynx. This gives you something for jynx even after probopass falls asleep (and taunt is pretty useless on samurott).

Your Scolipede problem is a little harder to fix, as it can set up spikes on a lot of things, and nothing really likes to switch in. I think this may just be because scoli is so good right now, so play very carefully with golurk and rotom-s.

I'm on my phone so I'm gonna stop, but I will possibly rate more later, good team though!

 

[Brawlfest]

A decently built team! Although I do have a few nitpicks.

Firstly I agree with atomicllamas that Megahorn is more useful than Taunt on samurott in order to catch Jynx which can break through the rest of your team.

Another point that I would bring up is that your Tangela doesn't need stun spore. Your probopass already provides Paralysis support, so why does Tangela need it? Leech Seed is far more useful, allowing your Tangela to survive for longer, and it helps the rest of your team regain health lost earlier in the match. While Knock Off in theory is good, this means you are completely walled by things such as Sap Sipper Sawsbuck and Sap Sipper Miltank, whom you are only handing helpful attack boosts to. Instead, I suggest Hidden Power [Ice], which helps you remedy this issue, making your Tangela less of set-up fodder against Sawsbuck and SD Scolipede.

I suggest Choice Band / Expert Belt on your Golurk. Choice Band brings amazing power to golurk, and with double band of Golurk + Sawk, you can rip giant gaping holes through a lot of teams with the duo. The second option of Expert Belt is to bluff the previously mentioned Choice Band set, allowing you to for example spam Earthquake, and as a flying type switches in, assuming you are locked it, catch it with Ice Punch. In general, Choice Band is still the better Option.

Outside of those changes, this team looks very solid, and is a very well built team for a first RMT. Great job!

 

[Valafar123]

Thanks for the feedback peeps. :)

I would post some replays to demonstrate some of my points, but Showdown is borked right now. :(

Hey, so this is actually a pretty good team, really good for someone's first rmt n_n.

I do have some suggestions though, as your team does have a weakness to both Jynx and Scolipede, the two best Pokemon in the tier. The easiest fix for jynx, is to replace taunt and samurott with megahorn, as even uninvested this can OHKO Jynx with ease. Currently probopass is switching into jynx, and absorbing th sleep, which makes it impossible for it to continually check jynx. This gives you something for jynx even after probopass falls asleep (and taunt is pretty useless on samurott).

Your Scolipede problem is a little harder to fix, as it can set up spikes on a lot of things, and nothing really likes to switch in. I think this may just be because scoli is so good right now, so play very carefully with golurk and rotom-s.

I'm on my phone so I'm gonna stop, but I will possibly rate more later, good team though!

Thank you very much. :)

Unicorn's having a nasty case of 4 move slot syndrome. As much as I want to pack an answer to Jynx, I do unfortunately need the other moves just as much. Hydro Pump is a given, Ice Beam is necessary to take down Tangela, Grass Knot is needed to deal with Seismitoads, and Taunt is needed to deal with switch-ins who want to try and switch in.

Incidentally, I can Taunt Jynx on its switch to prevent it pulling shenanigans. Although I won't kill it, it does prevent it from being able to do anything to SMB.

If I were to use a direct out to Jynx, though, it could also be Night Slash. 31 IV, 4 EV, Modest Night Slash has a
81.25% chance to OHKO which is about as much as much as Megahorn's accuracy (when you factor in the raised critical rate), except after hazards or Life Orb it KOs anyway and doesn't need to worry about shaky accuracy. I wouldn't use Megahorn in any other situation so eh.

Megahorn/Night Slash will probably end up competing with Grass Knot (considering both moves are only there for specific pokemon whereas Taunt is more universal).

Plus, if the Jynx isn't Substituting SMB counters it absolutely. I can afford to stay in and count off the sleep turns until I sneak in a paralysis. Granted it's risky, but that "what if" play does exist

Jynx is always going to be a threat no matter what, but I'm somewhat prepared for it. I'll see how well Unicorn deals with Jynx since I haven't had the opportunity for that specific match up that often. I'll have to play around with it for another week or so to see if I'm comfortable with the current set. If not, I'll change something to Megahorn or Night Slash.

Scolipede is just an issue in general (a bit like Jynx) rather than anything specific to my team. Voltergeist does take it on pretty easily. I did mention Scoli leaving the tier anyway, so I'm not too worried. Maybe I'm procrastinating against countering it.

I am careful with Magnus on Scolipede because of Aqua Tail, and Voltergeist wouldn't be a direct switch it would be an anti-lead. I haven't actually come across the Swords Dance set and didn't even realise they existed until just finding out about them now. They seem to be rare, but I should be prepared for the remained of its stay in the tier until it inevitably moves up a few tiers. After all, its getting 100 base attack and Speed Boost in Gen VI.

A decently built team! Although I do have a few nitpicks.

Firstly I agree with atomicllamas that Megahorn is more useful than Taunt on samurott in order to catch Jynx which can break through the rest of your team.

Another point that I would bring up is that your Tangela doesn't need stun spore. Your probopass already provides Paralysis support, so why does Tangela need it? Leech Seed is far more useful, allowing your Tangela to survive for longer, and it helps the rest of your team regain health lost earlier in the match. While Knock Off in theory is good, this means you are completely walled by things such as Sap Sipper Sawsbuck and Sap Sipper Miltank, whom you are only handing helpful attack boosts to. Instead, I suggest Hidden Power [Ice], which helps you remedy this issue, making your Tangela less of set-up fodder against Sawsbuck and SD Scolipede.

I suggest Choice Band / Expert Belt on your Golurk. Choice Band brings amazing power to golurk, and with double band of Golurk + Sawk, you can rip giant gaping holes through a lot of teams with the duo. The second option of Expert Belt is to bluff the previously mentioned Choice Band set, allowing you to for example spam Earthquake, and as a flying type switches in, assuming you are locked it, catch it with Ice Punch. In general, Choice Band is still the better Option.

Outside of those changes, this team looks very solid, and is a very well built team for a first RMT. Great job!

Noodles needs Stun Spore because it forms a complete paralysis core. If Tangela isn't carrying Noodles, there's no way to make sure things like Sawk and Primeape are slowed down, or whatever they switch in correspondingly to Noodles either. Primeape likes to be tricky and switch in to Sleep Powder too, so having the opportunity to render it useless is absolutely amazing. I will have to rethink Stun Spore now that Grass and Electric are immune to it, though.

Leech Seed is amazing and one of my favourite moves in the game, but it just doesn't have any synergy with the team. If I was running something less offensive I would reconsider, but as it stands slowing a Pokemon down is far more useful to me. Survivability honestly isn't an issue for Noodles anyway. The Giga Drain Regenerator tandem give it so much longevity, and its bulk is so great that it doesn't take too much damage from anything.

On Hidden Power Ice:

70 BP HP Ice:
4 SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sawsbuck: 136-162 (45.03 - 53.64%) -- 38.67% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 46-55 (11.67 - 13.95%) -- 9HKO at best

60 BP HP Ice:
4 SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Sawsbuck: 116-138 (38.41 - 45.69%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 39-47 (9.89 - 11.92%) -- 9HKO at best

It helps a little vs. Sawsbuck, but does absolutely nothings versus Miltank. I already addressed how I handle Miltank, so it's not a threat to me personally. It does need to be scouted, but once the set is confirmed it's laughably easy to deal with. The unpredictability is more dangerous than the pokemon itself. I think I did mentioned Sludge Bomb before, which is stronger and has a 30% poison rate, which helps versus the cow. Seems like the better option since I already have much stronger Ice-type coverage. Sawsbuck is only on 3.90121% of teams anyway, so it's not the biggest issue in the world. Miltank also lacks the coverage to hit Golurk unless it's Sap Sipper Moofensive with Punishment, but I've seen more Leprechauns than I have that combo. So even if it does get a +1, I'm immune to its coverage.

I'm not 100% sure how simulator play is working right now, since the teambuilder lists Gen V teams as having Gen VI move powers, so I'm extremely dubious of Hidden Powers.

Knock Off is absolutely vital to the team and I won't remove it under any circumstances. I absolutely need to be able to Knock Off Eviolite users to make sure my Pokemon are doing the damage they need to.

Really Noodles has the same issue as Unicorn with 4 moveslot syndrome. The only Pokemon that I would change a move on a whim is Sock, who barely ever uses Stone Edge. I really haven't had any issues with her current set, so I doubt I'd ever change it until the meta redefines itself in 6th gen when dual powder becomes much worse.

I've experimented with Choice Bands already and I don't like them on Golurks. Double Choice Band cramps the team badly anyway. I typically rely on my physical attackers to sweep, and having both of them lack the ability to change moves will cause severe issues. Sometimes you can just keep spamming strong STAB, but sometimes you need the ability to switch up moves to clean up. Not only that, but that would bring the team to 3 Choice users, which is far too many for my liking.

Expert Belt is something I will probably try though. It never occurred to me to use it before even though I was one of the pioneers of Eebeltross. I really like my Lefties recovery against residual damage from things like Toxic Spikes though, and Magnus has to stay healthy enough to tank hits or make risky predictions.


------------------

Sorry if I'm being a little stubborn with things, but I like to argue my case before making changes. The most questionable members of the team are Voltergeist and Unicorn since they're fairly recent additions. Noodles may change its move pool with the generation shift, but the rest of the team may remain the same unless I'm informed of something immediate that I've overlooked.

I'm currently at 53 wins to 18 losses (most of which were during earlier stages when the team was different and more poorly balanced), so the first 4 listed Pokemon have had plenty of field testing. Do give me a little bit of credit since I am fairly competent with more elaborate gameplay, so I'm not going to fall for Sap Sipper Miltank any time soon.

As atomicllamas said, Jynx and Scolipede are the two main meta threats I have to worry about. Luckily they are hazard weak, so it's not so bad. There isn't a good way to deal with either of them in NU, which is really unfortunate. Aside from minor alterations to catch Jynx on the switch or running some sort of contrived Sleep Talker, or running Scarf Primeape and hoping for the best, there's no good way to deal with it. There are lots of tricky ways to kill it, but no direct ways. Same story with Scolipede. I think I've addressed both of them fairly extensively in this thread so far, so there really isn't much we can do to address them right now anyway without totally redesigning the team.

I already addressed miscellaneous threats like Miltank and how the team already has them covered, so I'm not worried about them. Sawsbuck will probably end up being added to the OP since it's something I did overlook.

 

[soulgazer]

Your team looks really weak to Musharna; All you really have is Golurk, which can be trapped by a well played Skuntank, and maybe Rotom-S to trick it a Choice Scarf, which to be honest isn't enough. The quickest change I see for this would be to use Toxic over Thunder Wave on Probopass to let you beat Musharna one on one. Also consider changing Tangela's moveset. Hidden Power Rock looks useful on here: It let you get a good hit on Scolipede, which can't OHKO (and you can always heal back later with Regenerator) and get a hit on a Charizard who might think he can switch in on you. Also, 56 EVs should be used into Special Attack to allow Probopass to OHKO and 2HKO Charizard and Jynx, respectively, with Power Gem, which can be helpful, and it won't affect how you take special hits.

Finally, I don't see what Golurk does on this team. It doesn't use Choice Band to break walls, and doesn't set up Stealth Rock. I personally don't know what you should use over it, but consider trying out Pokemon that can deal with the threats you mentionned: Jynx can deal with those Shell Smash users when carrying a Scarf (that means you change your Rotom-S), and Kangaskhan (All-Out Attacker) can be really helpful to revenge kill Charizard/Haunter/Scolipede/Jynx.

EDIT: Oh and also, definitely go for Megahorn on Samurott, it will further help you to beat Musharna and Duosion, which can become a pain in the ass.

Good Luck!

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Hydro Pump hits Musharna harder than Megahorn you derp :/ but yeah please switch to Megahorn, it allows you to deal with Jynx and Ludicolo, and the latter can otherwise waltz in and sweep your team. I agree completely with Soulgazer regarding HP Rock on Tangela, Toxic on Probopass, and the SpA EVs, it's a good rate and you should follow it. Kangaskhan > Golurk is also a decent idea because you'll then have a way to deal with rain teams, and they plough through your team pretty badly.

This is a really solid team, grats on the peak!

 

[watashi]

everything on your team is outsped and ohko'ed by ludicolo in the rain so i would run a spread of 248 hp / 136 def / 124 spdef on tangela so you can survive ice beam after stealth rocks damage and paralyze it. not the best answer to it but it's the best i can suggest without making significant changes to this team

 

[Valafar123]

Your team looks really weak to Musharna; All you really have is Golurk, which can be trapped by a well played Skuntank, and maybe Rotom-S to trick it a Choice Scarf, which to be honest isn't enough. The quickest change I see for this would be to use Toxic over Thunder Wave on Probopass to let you beat Musharna one on one. Also consider changing Tangela's moveset. Hidden Power Rock looks useful on here: It let you get a good hit on Scolipede, which can't OHKO (and you can always heal back later with Regenerator) and get a hit on a Charizard who might think he can switch in on you. Also, 56 EVs should be used into Special Attack to allow Probopass to OHKO and 2HKO Charizard and Jynx, respectively, with Power Gem, which can be helpful, and it won't affect how you take special hits.

Finally, I don't see what Golurk does on this team. It doesn't use Choice Band to break walls, and doesn't set up Stealth Rock. I personally don't know what you should use over it, but consider trying out Pokemon that can deal with the threats you mentionned: Jynx can deal with those Shell Smash users when carrying a Scarf (that means you change your Rotom-S), and Kangaskhan (All-Out Attacker) can be really helpful to revenge kill Charizard/Haunter/Scolipede/Jynx.

EDIT: Oh and also, definitely go for Megahorn on Samurott, it will further help you to beat Musharna and Duosion, which can become a pain in the ass.

Good Luck!

I beat Musharna one on one anyway. As it stands, Magnus beats it, Voltergeist beats it (especially CM sets) and Unicorn beats it. The paralysis support is too important to the team, I'm not cutting it. Especially on a team that won't benefit whatsoever from residual damage. The walls are the exclusively to chump a hit, and then give me an opportunity to hit something hard by either Volt Switching or Sleeping something, or paralysing a fast threat so that it can't do anything. Musharnas typically carry Heal Bell anyway.

Also, if I remove Thunder Wave AND remove Stun Spore as per a prior suggestion, the team won't even work. It literally won't have a way to deal with scarfers or even slightly speedy Pokemon considering everything is invested in power versus speeds (sans Voltergeist).

I really really want to use the 56 SpA EV spread, but here are my concerns:

Against lefties Jynx:
56 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jynx: 134-158 (49.44 - 58.3%) -- 60.94% chance to 2HKO

Which is problematic. The odds are sketchy on Jynx and it does nothing to remedy the weakness to the set I'm most weak to. Life Orb Jynx is already dealt with by the team fairly easily, Scarf Jynx really doesn't do anything to me, and Sub Jynx will just sleep me, sub up

In fact, my odds are better to OHKO Charizard without any SpA investment than my odds are to 2HKO Jynx with SpA investment.

Dropping the max SpD investment means I can get KO'd by Focus Blast after hazards too, which makes it harder to counter Jynx, not easier. I won't be able to sneak in a guaranteed Thunder Wave to make it useless for the rest of the game.

252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Probopass: 272-320 (84.21 - 99.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (75% after spikes / 37.5% after SR)
252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 260-308 (80.49 - 95.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (50% after spikes / 12.5% after SR)

Those are my concerns, personally. I'm more interested in paralysing the Jynx so it's definitely not a threat than I am about getting a little damage on it and then having it kill my team anyway.

I already explained Magnus' role as an offensive tank, fighting/normal/electric immunity, Golurk counter and cleaner. He splits up Sock's job and makes things much easier for the team on the whole. It's a Golurk. Does what it says on the tin.

Hidden Power Rock is a really good idea though. I won't be using it this generation, but it's definitely going to be tested next gen.

Hydro Pump hits Musharna harder than Megahorn you derp :/ but yeah please switch to Megahorn, it allows you to deal with Jynx and Ludicolo, and the latter can otherwise waltz in and sweep your team. I agree completely with Soulgazer regarding HP Rock on Tangela, Toxic on Probopass, and the SpA EVs, it's a good rate and you should follow it. Kangaskhan > Golurk is also a decent idea because you'll then have a way to deal with rain teams, and they plough through your team pretty badly.

This is a really solid team, grats on the peak!

Ludicolo is a valid concern, actually. Surprisingly it hasn't given me any issues because the switch into Ludicolo on Unicorn is predictable as hell and then it just gets OHKO'd by a double switched Sock. I guess they can spare their Ludicolo since I'm not getting the clean kill then and there, but then something dies to Sock anyway and they'll need to wait for another opportunity to bring it in or it'll die. Ludi isn't guaranteed to KO Noodles with Ice Beam, and it can't KO SMB without rain. That means it only gets paralysed if it tries to set up on my walls. It can't actually switch in to anything on the team.

The Megahorn will be over Grass Knot if anything; I'm much more worried about stall and shenanigans than I am about Jynx or Ludicolo, and the Knot is literally only there for Seismitoad who will be the other switch in to Unicorn, so I'm picking my poison here. I will play around with it though.

Kangaskhan used to have Magnus' slot actually. That's my bad for not including past mons in the OP. Lack of coverage, power and resistances made me cut it. I should add a past-Mons section, so I'll do that now.

everything on your team is outsped and ohko'ed by ludicolo in the rain so i would run a spread of 248 hp / 136 def / 124 spdef on tangela so you can survive ice beam after stealth rocks damage and paralyze it. not the best answer to it but it's the best i can suggest without making significant changes to this team

I might consider it, but max physical defence has saved me a lot of times. I'll make an alt or do some laddering and keep notes on all of everyone's concerns here and see if they come to fruition, and if so I'll make changes accordingly. Hopefully replays are working.

 

[Valafar123]

Updated the OP to include past mons and suggestions. Would anyone consider this team to be hyper offence? Or is it bulky offence? I'm a little confused with the terminology. :/

 

[soulgazer]

252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 260-308 (80.24 - 95.06%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Probopass: 272-320 (83.95 - 98.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

Probopass isn't a counter to Jynx carrying Focus Blast anyway; it's mainly a check, and really, Probopass needs the 56 evs:

56 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jynx: 134-162 (49.44 - 59.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
56 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jynx: 134-162 (49.44 - 59.77%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 276-328 (92.92 - 110.43%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
56 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 300-352 (101.01 - 118.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't want to sound rude, but those 56 SpA evs will come in handy way more than you might think. Also, when I was talking about running Hidden Power Rock on your Tangela, it should be used over Knock Off; Your team is so slow that I can see why you need paralysis support, but as you said your team is filled with heavy hitters, so you shouldn't need Knock Off to be honest. I also agree with FLCL: Your team is 6-0'd by a well played Ludicolo, and honestly using that mix defensive spread on Tangela will be worth it. With that in mind, I really think you should use Kangaskhan over Golurk. Not only does it give you an awsome check to Ludicolo, it always help revenge killing all those faster Pokemon that your team has problem with. If you insist on not using it because you want an heavy hitter, you could try using an offensive Gardevoir with Trace over Golurk: It checks weather team perfectly with that base 80 speed, which means Gardevoir outspeeds Ludicolo, Victreebel, Seismitoad, and Exeggutor under their weather and revenge kill them for you, while still hitting like a truck.

Garde (Gardevoir) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

Really hope this will help you.

EDIT: If you are looking for a Ground-type for an Electric immunity, you can also try a Rain Dance Seismitoad:

Toad (Seismitoad) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Rain Dance

Outspeeds Ludicolo in and outside of rain and do a good chunk with Sludge Bomb, while Earth Power and Hydro Pump hurts.

 

[watashi]

im pretty sure tangela can still tank physical hits just as well with that mixed spread since youre only losing about ~8% bulk on the physical side

 

[Valafar123]

Just to let people know I've started testing a few things on an alt. Decided to start with Expert Belted Golurk and the different EV spread on Probopass just to see how much I like the extra power.

I'll post better feedback on the changes after the alt is laddered some more. It's 4-0 right now with over 1800 rating (not that it matters on such a new alt). I think two of the people had good ratings. One was definitely 1900+. Didn't really get a chance to get a solid session in, and I played a lot more sloppily than I normally do. One game went over 35 turns, which is a lot longer than I usually like to take.

Jynx appeared on most of the teams, but the way I dealt with it didn't change at all even with the changed EV spread. I still found myself using the same strategies to deal with it, namely Thunder Waving it so it's as good as dead anyway. I'm still really skeptical about it, but I'll see.

The belted Golurk has been really nifty actually. I did receive an "I thought you were banded..." comment, so that's exactly what I like to see. Nobody uses Belted Golurk, so it still has the surprise factor. It did 98% to a Musharna, but it must've been some trippy set if it wasn't invested in defence. I did notice the slight hike in power, especially on Drain Punch. I'm warming up to it and I may stick with it. Thanks to Brawlfest for that one. Completely overlooked it.

I'll get to replying to specific posts after I get back to my computer. Just thought I'd post a quick update. Also looks like Showdown's replays are working now, so I'll pull a few. I need to showcase the Golurk because I don't think people see how well it works with the team in practice. I can usually trust it to reliably KO 3+ Pokemon a game thanks to its stellar coverage and useable bulk.