Assuming sr isn't up and xern isn't using thunder instead. Lugia's a fine check however since xern can''t ohko standard great wall lugia after sr.
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Xerneas
- Thread starter superstar
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The decrease in power isn't noticeable for xern at least. It ohko's the gs bird trio and ohko's specially defensive ogre. The weather nerf is admittedly a problem though thunder is just an option like I said. If you're really desperate for a way to break through shit then it's perfectly viable
Since I got a Jolly with a almost perfect set except for HP, I am thinking one of 2 sets, both mixed attackers
Set one: Power Herb
Geomancy
Moon Blast
PsyShock
Close Combat
I think even with a Jolly nature, one Geomancy will undo the - nature and make her SpA amazing. Close Combate is there to check steel types, to use that Pervect Attack IV I got, plus I hate focus miss
Set Two: Assault vest/Weakness Policy
Moon Blast
Close Combat
Horn leech
Night Slash.
Most people wouldn't expect a mostly physical Xerneas, and she can still do great damage thanks to those stats. it isn't going to be as deadly, but it will hurt alot! Horn leech is for healing, and Night slash, with the other 3 moves, give her perfect coverage. Weakness policy is a good subsititue for Geomancy... though you would want to switch in on weaker SE attacks... my guy has perfect Defenses IV's, but a awful HP... should still be able to take a weakness policy though.
Set one: Power Herb
Geomancy
Moon Blast
PsyShock
Close Combat
I think even with a Jolly nature, one Geomancy will undo the - nature and make her SpA amazing. Close Combate is there to check steel types, to use that Pervect Attack IV I got, plus I hate focus miss
Set Two: Assault vest/Weakness Policy
Moon Blast
Close Combat
Horn leech
Night Slash.
Most people wouldn't expect a mostly physical Xerneas, and she can still do great damage thanks to those stats. it isn't going to be as deadly, but it will hurt alot! Horn leech is for healing, and Night slash, with the other 3 moves, give her perfect coverage. Weakness policy is a good subsititue for Geomancy... though you would want to switch in on weaker SE attacks... my guy has perfect Defenses IV's, but a awful HP... should still be able to take a weakness policy though.
I personally wouldn't want to risk that 30% chance to miss, I'd rather have my sweep end early(xerneas is still a good pokemon without geomancy) and get the free damage on Lugia.
Having played on the Ubers ladder, the best Xerneas counter I can find is specially defensive Jirachi, as it takes less than half from +2 Focus Blast, and can paraflinch Xerneas afterwards.
sorry , but there is a obvious mistake
even a 252hp/252spdef Jirachi will get 2HKO with +2 focus blast
Factoring Assault Vest ?
I think of it as a 70% to win and you're not doing "free" damage siince it comes at a cost of using up your power herb, not to mention the larger threat (Ho oh) will ko a weakened xern with ease and just regen the damage dealt.
Personally I find Xerneas quite underwhelming so far. It is a sweeping that doesn't bring much to the table in terms of synergy or revenge killing capabilities. With Defog everywhere, mons like Whirlwind Ho-oh and Lugia make Xerneas useless should it set up. Thunder Wave weakness is also unfortunate. Truth be told you should be able to fit in any of the following: sdef Kyogre, Ho-oh, Lugia, support Arceus with roar or toxic, Amoongus, Jirachi, Bronzong just to name a few on your team. Personally I find it that if you are well prepared against it, it shouldn't be hard to handle, but of course, just like many end game sweepers, Xerneas used by a good player might sweep another good player once in a while.
Anyway, enough about Geomancy Xerneas. I have personally been trying scarf Xerneas, which is terms of power is a little bit underwhelming. The amount of threats it can revenge kill is, however, quite a big deal. Just a quick list: Darkrai (can even come in on Dark Void if you are running Sleep Talk), Darkceus, Fightceus, Mewtwo (all formes if you are running Megahorn), Zekrom, Palkia, Kyurem formes, Reshiram, Rayquaza. It does face difficulties with low initial power, though Fairy Aura boosts the Moonblast by a bit at the very least. I have been tinkering around and tried the following set:
Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 224 Spd / 76 Atk / 208 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Sleep Talk
Though there are many options like hidden powers, Close Combats, Tbolt etc.
Anyway, enough about Geomancy Xerneas. I have personally been trying scarf Xerneas, which is terms of power is a little bit underwhelming. The amount of threats it can revenge kill is, however, quite a big deal. Just a quick list: Darkrai (can even come in on Dark Void if you are running Sleep Talk), Darkceus, Fightceus, Mewtwo (all formes if you are running Megahorn), Zekrom, Palkia, Kyurem formes, Reshiram, Rayquaza. It does face difficulties with low initial power, though Fairy Aura boosts the Moonblast by a bit at the very least. I have been tinkering around and tried the following set:
Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 224 Spd / 76 Atk / 208 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Sleep Talk
Though there are many options like hidden powers, Close Combats, Tbolt etc.
Jirachi can simply spam Wish + Protect and then paralyze Xerneas (protect the turn you come in, then Wish, continue until Focus Blast misses). Xerneas can't set up either since it'll just get paralyzed one of the turns of Geomancy. Wish / Protect / Thunder Wave / Iron Head Sp.D. Rachi is a pretty good check imo.
Possible idea for stopping Power Herb/Geomancy: Milotic.
Milotic already possesses very strong Special Defenses, but it also has a move which will absolutely wreck the Geomaster: Captivate. If you can predict Xerneas being sent out, couldn't Milotic Captivate it, and immediately eliminate one of the biggest threats of the set? I'm not knowledgeable enough to run the calculations on survivability, but being able to shut down the Special Attack from Geomancy cripples this beast as well as a switch out would (sure, it has speed, but it can't re-Geomancy faster than Milotic could continue to Captivate it). If Milotic can survive unboosted hits, especially with Recover, there might be a fairly solid Pokémon to stop it, at least with the correct prediction/insertion.
Am I way off? I know I haven't seen a lot of sets for any Pokémon that reduce stats, but reading through my TM list and spotting Snarl and Confide made me start considering them. Could someone flesh this idea out a bit and let me know how Milotic would fair?
Milotic already possesses very strong Special Defenses, but it also has a move which will absolutely wreck the Geomaster: Captivate. If you can predict Xerneas being sent out, couldn't Milotic Captivate it, and immediately eliminate one of the biggest threats of the set? I'm not knowledgeable enough to run the calculations on survivability, but being able to shut down the Special Attack from Geomancy cripples this beast as well as a switch out would (sure, it has speed, but it can't re-Geomancy faster than Milotic could continue to Captivate it). If Milotic can survive unboosted hits, especially with Recover, there might be a fairly solid Pokémon to stop it, at least with the correct prediction/insertion.
Am I way off? I know I haven't seen a lot of sets for any Pokémon that reduce stats, but reading through my TM list and spotting Snarl and Confide made me start considering them. Could someone flesh this idea out a bit and let me know how Milotic would fair?
Hate to bust your bubble, but Xerneas is genderless and therefore immune to Captivate. Milotic also doesn't accomplish much Kyogre itself can't do. If you want to go that route you could perhaps run something with Clear Smog like Assault Vest Amoonguss or SpD Gastrodon.
Checking Xerneas isn't actually that difficult. Sure it's immensely deadly, but it only gets one chance to sweep with Geomancy so it relies on teammates weakening its checks more than other sweepers such as SD Arceus and M2X/Y. Steels that can tank Focus Blast/Thunder (there are quite a few of these like Aegislash, Mega Scizor, SpD Jirachi, Bronzong, Metagross), Poison Arceus, bulky Arceus sets with Roar, pink blobs, AV Amoonguss, SpD Kyogre, Lugia, Ho-Oh are all great checks. Another problem Xerneas has is that it cannot cover all of its checks with just STAB + two coverage moves, so there is always something that can beat it no matter what it runs.
Xerneas is good, don't get me wrong, but its a touch overrated imo and people should perhaps try other sets with it instead of immediately busting out Geomancy Xerneas and letting it get owned within the first five turns.
Captivate only works on the opposite gender; Xerneas is genderless so Captivate would fail completely against it. There aren't many attacks that would lower Special Attack enough to conuteract Xerneas's boosting (or power for that matter), so you should either try Haze, phazing, or just kill it with various methods like Destiny Bond or SE moves.
I knew it wouldn't work or someone would have already figured it out. Nevertheless, it struck me as such an interesting concept that I had to at least offer it. I totally forgot about the whole Gender-issue (that's what I get for posting this late at night). And you're right, the other moves wouldn't lower it quickly enough (except Haze, I suppose). Thanks for setting me straight on it, though.
Is there any reason to use Timid Xerneas instead of Modest Xerneas except for Timid Specs Kyogre which would outspeed it before Geomancy..?
No reason at all. Xerneas shouldn't be coming in on something that it can't setup a geomancy safely against.
Is there anything it needs Timid for to outspeed after Geomancy?`
sandstorm extradrill
but modest is still the best choice I guess
with modest nature
u will have 85% chance to 0HKO 0hp/0spdef Kyogre with +2 moonblast even there is no SR on the field
u will have high % to 0HKO 252hp/0spdef Lugia with +2 moonblast after SR
Is there anything that gets Prankster, access to Haze, and is reasonable for use in Ubers? Might make for a nasty surprise.
Would Volcarona do a decent job countering Xerneas? I noticed that Volcarona resists Fairy moves. Essentially you would have a stabbing match with Xerneas since Volcarona would still be able to use it's fire stab, while Xerneas is forced into using Psyshock or something else.
Actually a really funny match up would be to force Xerneas to go against a sleep talk tanky Volcarona (HP/SPD) with Firey Dance, Quiver Dance, Sleep Talk and Rest). The whole time Xerneas is trying to kill you you are becoming a sweeping monster.
Actually a really funny match up would be to force Xerneas to go against a sleep talk tanky Volcarona (HP/SPD) with Firey Dance, Quiver Dance, Sleep Talk and Rest). The whole time Xerneas is trying to kill you you are becoming a sweeping monster.
Closest thing would probably be Mega Banette with Destiny Bond (kinda a bad check since you both lose a mon)
Problem with that is Xerneas has that SDef boost and will just wreck you with Psyshock/Tbolt.
I think the Geomancy set should be updated :
- defense EVs are better than HP EVs with all of its counters being physical (priority or not), Geomancy boosting SpD and its HP base stat being so high : this make even CB Scizor always failing to OHKO after SR damage
- Psyshock>Thunderbolt in my opinion as neutral Moonblast>SE Thunderbolt (Lugia and co) and not very effective Moonblast>neutral Thunderbolt (for example on Aegislash), while +2 Psyshock does also more than 50% on most Ho-oh and is your best option against Blissey, Arceus-poison and in some CM situations
- about your comment : Geomancy Xerneas should be used as a late-game sweeper, so the fact you can use it only once isn't really a problem if you use it this way
- defense EVs are better than HP EVs with all of its counters being physical (priority or not), Geomancy boosting SpD and its HP base stat being so high : this make even CB Scizor always failing to OHKO after SR damage
- Psyshock>Thunderbolt in my opinion as neutral Moonblast>SE Thunderbolt (Lugia and co) and not very effective Moonblast>neutral Thunderbolt (for example on Aegislash), while +2 Psyshock does also more than 50% on most Ho-oh and is your best option against Blissey, Arceus-poison and in some CM situations
- about your comment : Geomancy Xerneas should be used as a late-game sweeper, so the fact you can use it only once isn't really a problem if you use it this way
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