Pokémon Gardevoir

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After some testing...

Future Sight + Focus Blast is pretty funny. Anything that comes in to try to resist or block a 120 BP STAB coming off of 165 base Special Attack (like Dark-and Steel-types) gets eaten alive by Focus Blast.

Only problem is Focus Blast missing ._.
 
once we get the pokebanks open, i can definitely see some citrus berry recycle duo screen shenanagans with gardevoir. sure duo screens dont work as well without light clay but recycle can keep gardevoir healthy and you can blast people away with them moon blast since gardevoir's base sp.atk isn't the worst here's what I've been cooking up.

gardevoir @ citrus berry
timid - trace
252 SpD, 252 Spe, 4 HP
lightscreen
reflect
recycle (when pokebank opens)
moon blast/psychic/psyshock
 
Ookay so i know this might be completely insane, but im actually considering running hyper beam over moonblast on mega Gardy??? like, for kicks/testing purposes/surprise factor????

Could we talk about that possibility for a bit?? I want to know what you guys think.

(maybe in doubles??? ionno)
 
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Two Moonblasts probably outdamage a Hyper Beam and the situation where you'd want Hyper Beam (last Pokemon, you're faster than it and you have to KO it) won't come up enough to warrant the moveslot. It'd be funny for damage purposes, but that's about it.
 

Mario With Lasers

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Ookay so i know this might be completely insane, but im actually considering running hyper beam over moonblast on mega Gardy??? like, for kicks/testing purposes/surprise factor????

Could we talk about that possibility for a bit?? I want to know what you guys think.

(maybe in doubles??? ionno)
It's weaker than Porygon-Z's Hyper Beam. I guess it's worth a shot for shits and giggles, but meh. I wouldn't waste the Megaslot on that.
 
Sandy_Claws said:
Ookay so i know this might be completely insane, but im actually considering running hyper beam over moonblast on mega Gardy??? like, for kicks/testing purposes/surprise factor????

Could we talk about that possibility for a bit?? I want to know what you guys think.

(maybe in doubles??? ionno)
It's weaker than Porygon-Z's Hyper Beam. I guess it's worth a shot for shits and giggles, but meh. I wouldn't waste the Megaslot on that.
Yeah, using Hyper Beam is basically a death sentence for whoever uses it, and if you're just going to suicide-bomb something, you might as well do it with something that doesn't occupy your Mega slot. Sounds pretty dumb to me in any context but in-game, where it might be worthwhile because you can switch afterward.
 
From what I've seen, everyone seems to advocate running Gardevoir with max Def. EV's which personally, I don't think is right at all. There are so many pokemon that are better at countering physical attackers that using Gardevoir as a physical counter just seems ridiculous. With max HP investment and some balance between sp. def and sp. atk (with maybe a little bit in defense), I've found gardevoir to be an amazing special wall. The spread I've been using (252 hp, 48 sp. def i believe) can even survive a Modest Mega Gengar's sludge wave and have enough power to OHKO with psychic or psyshock with 0 investment in sp. atk. Gardevoir is seriously good, but you can't play it to roles where it doesn't belong.
 
Two Moonblasts probably outdamage a Hyper Beam and the situation where you'd want Hyper Beam (last Pokemon, you're faster than it and you have to KO it) won't come up enough to warrant the moveslot. It'd be funny for damage purposes, but that's about it.
Aside from what has been said consider how fragile MGar's phy defense as well as her slightly above average speed, the +10 to atk in Mega form REALLY should have been distributed elsewhere, that would make her prone to revenge that a move whose drawback only leaves her more vulnerable to that would not be doing her any favors.
 
Ookay so i know this might be completely insane, but im actually considering running hyper beam over moonblast on mega Gardy??? like, for kicks/testing purposes/surprise factor????

Could we talk about that possibility for a bit?? I want to know what you guys think.

(maybe in doubles??? ionno)
You are better off waiting for Pokebank and running Hyper voice instead. More powerful then Moonblast, hits through subs, and no recharge
 
You are better off waiting for Pokebank and running Hyper voice instead. More powerful then Moonblast, hits through subs, and no recharge
Nah, i realize hyper beam is far from being the best option for probably anything that isn't slaking, i just wanted to discuss the possibility for a bit, since i feel like there really isn't any normal moves that can truly get the best out of pixilate right now.
(and yeah, i know some were suggesting echoed voice as a possibility, but against echoed voice, i'd rather run moonblast)

Anyways, thanks for indulging me guys!
 
From what I've seen, everyone seems to advocate running Gardevoir with max Def. EV's which personally, I don't think is right at all. There are so many pokemon that are better at countering physical attackers that using Gardevoir as a physical counter just seems ridiculous. With max HP investment and some balance between sp. def and sp. atk (with maybe a little bit in defense), I've found gardevoir to be an amazing special wall. The spread I've been using (252 hp, 48 sp. def i believe) can even survive a Modest Mega Gengar's sludge wave and have enough power to OHKO with psychic or psyshock with 0 investment in sp. atk. Gardevoir is seriously good, but you can't play it to roles where it doesn't belong.
I've seen very little Def EV spreads in this thread, maybe one or two, so not sure where you getting the "everyone" from. In any case, running Def EV's is a waste. Mega Gardevoir does not work as a tank. It's supposed to sweep. If you want a tanky gardevoir, use leftovers with support moves, and consider using a different Mega. Mega Gardevoir preferably comes in on a special move she resists, forcing a switch and giving you a free calm mind, allowing her to plow through anything not faster than her, or priority-users.

As far as my set goes, it's currently 252Hp/252SpA/4Spe with CM, Moonblast, Psyshock and FocusMiss. The only reason I forsake Speed EVs is because I support her with speed boost passes from scolipede. If you don't have any form of speed-related support (Tailwind, Sticky Web, etc), then go for 252SpA/252Spe/4Hp, but beware that all forms of Gengar WILL ruin your day if you haven't gotten a CM up.
 

SJCrew

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M-Gardevoir is a bit hard to use right now. She's doing enough damage, but not to the right targets; Scizor can come in about as often as he wants, not predicting much at all, and that horrible physical defense makes it hard to set up a CM. With how fast everything is moving atm, she kind of has to just keep attacking and hope for the best. I'd like to test a Sub variant when I get the chance. Probably in a few days or so.
 
I've seen very little Def EV spreads in this thread, maybe one or two, so not sure where you getting the "everyone" from. In any case, running Def EV's is a waste. Mega Gardevoir does not work as a tank. It's supposed to sweep. If you want a tanky gardevoir, use leftovers with support moves, and consider using a different Mega. Mega Gardevoir preferably comes in on a special move she resists, forcing a switch and giving you a free calm mind, allowing her to plow through anything not faster than her, or priority-users.
I suppose I was just referring to the OP where it's primary set was a max def EV spread, my bad. Anyway, I wasn't even talking about Mega-Gardevoir in that post; What I meant was how much I think even just regular Gardevoir improved this gen. You can switch in on almost every special dragon if you run Specially defensive and even some physical dragons. You can also go head to head with Mega-gengar and come out alive with 0 sp. atk investment. I didn't mention Gardevoir as being a sweeper because I've never actually tried it. I personally advocate a specially defensive set because it has pretty nice stats there and is a great counter to many common pokes in the meta right now.

I never really considered a special sweeper set because I've been working with other special sweepers lately like mega-Manectric and Gengar. You made it sound like it needs a lot of set up (but I suppose that's true for any sweeper to an extent). So how does it do (relative to others that is)?
 
A set I would like to try out for M-Gardevoir is Moonblast (Hyper Voice once its released), Will-O-Wisp, Calm Mind, and Shadow Ball. I figured since Gardevoir's defense is shit she would really benefit from WoW.
 
I suppose I was just referring to the OP where it's primary set was a max def EV spread, my bad. Anyway, I wasn't even talking about Mega-Gardevoir in that post; What I meant was how much I think even just regular Gardevoir improved this gen. You can switch in on almost every special dragon if you run Specially defensive and even some physical dragons. You can also go head to head with Mega-gengar and come out alive with 0 sp. atk investment. I didn't mention Gardevoir as being a sweeper because I've never actually tried it. I personally advocate a specially defensive set because it has pretty nice stats there and is a great counter to many common pokes in the meta right now.

I never really considered a special sweeper set because I've been working with other special sweepers lately like mega-Manectric and Gengar. You made it sound like it needs a lot of set up (but I suppose that's true for any sweeper to an extent). So how does it do (relative to others that is)?
Ah, my bad, I didn't realize you were talking about normal Gardevoir. Normal Garde does indeed act best as a special wall of sorts, I can't argue there.

As for how she works as a sweeper, it takes a lot of support, I'll admit, but if you have any way of boosting its defense, via reflect or Iron Defense passes, you are able to set up a CM in front of anything not using Bullet Punch or named Gengar. And with near unresisted coverage in Fairy/Fighting/Psychic attacks (only Aegislash, from the top of my head, walls all 3 types), not much is going to stay standing, especially with hazard support to break through sturdy and sash.
 
Am I the only one that thinks she needs to run Wish to increase her longevity? Especially if she has to switch into SR/Spikes. Sure, her Wishes aren't as good as Sylveon's, they've both got the same bad defense but Mega-Gardevoir is in a nicer speed tier. Gard also has Will-O-Wisp which helps regulate her defense, a better Sp.Atk and movepool for coverage and only really trades off from Sylveon for its Ghost weakness.

The spread I've been using (252 hp, 48 sp. def i believe) can even survive a Modest Mega Gengar's sludge wave and have enough power to OHKO with psychic or psyshock with 0 investment in sp. atk. Gardevoir is seriously good, but you can't play it to roles where it doesn't belong.
Are you sure? Putting that spread into the damage calculator still says it'd be a 43.75% chance to KO with Gard running a Bold nature. That means Gard also can't afford to switch into SR/Spikes.

The minimum Mega-Gard can run is 152 Sp.Def, not including switching into SR/Spikes:

252+ SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 152 SpD (custom): 288-338 (84.7 - 99.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gard is basically hanging on for dear life of itself but the fact that it can hit back with Psyshock is nice.

252+ SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 270-318 (79.41 - 93.52%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even at Max Sp.Def Gard still can die to Modest Mega-Gengar + SR, so running it at the minimum Sp.Def looks possible worth it to put EVs elsewhere.


Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace | Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 152 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
- Moonblast/Hyper Voice (PB)/Substitute
- Wish
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp

With 104 Speed IVs, reaching 262 - Mega-Gard can out-speed Jolly Max Scizor and cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, the same with Politoed/Breloom and can hit them with Psyshock on their defense. Other than Speed I wouldn't know where to put the extra IVs, putting them into Def to try and survive Scizor doesn't really work, even if it's not running Choice/LO.

252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 104 Def (custom): 266-314 (78.23 - 92.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Outspeeding it and burning it (as long as it's not scarfed), Gard brings it down to a 3HKO, meaning even SR only brings it down to a 83.98% of a 2HKO.

252+ Atk Technician burned Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def (custom): 121-144 (35.58 - 42.35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The best a burned Scizor can do to Mega-Gard, is a Flying Gem Acrobatics, which even that only goes down slightly better than Bullet Punch.

Other than running Moonblast, Hyper Voice (once PB becomes available), another option that would work well with Wish + Will-O-Wisp is running Substitute. Wish, set up a Substitute and your health comes right back. Limited to Psyshock isn't great coverage because it's no longer punishing the Dark/Dragons it could be but I imagine no one would throw Dragons into Gard's field. Possibly Dark types like T-Tar wouldn't mind come in, which it can't do too much about then other than Will-O-Wisp, at least denting its Attack.

It's also no longer vulnerable to Pursuit trapping either, yay.
 
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Guys sorry I'm new here...
So I was thinking about :

Gardevoir @ gardevoirite
Modest / Timis
252speed / half HP / half spatk (sorry I don't know the exact numbers cause I'm new)
Move :
-moon blast / dazzling gleam
-shadow ball / psyshock
-calm mind / healing wish (suicide when hopeless?)
-thunderbolt / energy ball

What do you think?

And btw.. can gardevoir go support? I know sylveon does a better job on this with its bulky spdef, but I just wanna know
 
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Note that 1 Pixilate Hyper Beam is in fact stronger than 2 Moonblasts. Not that I'm advocating using Hyper Beam, except perhaps in 3v3 and the like. Also keep in mind Hyper Beam's 90% accuracy could come back to bite you.
 
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Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace | Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 152 SpD / 104 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast/Hyper Voice (PB)/Substitute
- Wish
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp

With 104 Speed IVs, reaching 262 - Mega-Gard can out-speed Jolly Max Scizor and cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, the same with Politoed/Breloom and can hit them with Psyshock on their defense. Other than Speed I wouldn't know where to put the extra IVs, putting them into Def to try and survive Scizor doesn't really work, even if it's not running Choice/LO.

252+ Atk Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def (custom): 322-380 (94.7 - 111.76%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
I think you have had the wrong input. Gardevoir is now 4 times resisted to Fighting, there is no way a Scizor can deal that much damage.

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def (custom): 69-82 (20.29 - 24.11%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

It's a 5HKO. Remember that the Fairy type has not appeared in the calculator yet so you should put your custom Pokemon as Psychic/Flying type so it resists Fighting 4 times. I put 0 Def here and it's a 5HKO. Choice Band 252+ Technician Scizor.
 
I think you have had the wrong input. Gardevoir is now 4 times resisted to Fighting, there is no way a Scizor can deal that much damage.

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def (custom): 69-82 (20.29 - 24.11%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

It's a 5HKO. Remember that the Fairy type has not appeared in the calculator yet so you should put your custom Pokemon as Psychic/Flying type so it resists Fighting 4 times. I put 0 Def here and it's a 5HKO. Choice Band 252+ Technician Scizor.
Oops, using custom is a bit annoying as Fairy hasn't been added yet. That was meant to be Bullet Punch, which is a 2HKO with Def invested. Basically, I'm saying speed is better than def IMO, as burns will save you more than the added EVs.

I like Gard though, it can handle it's Ghost weakness fairly well and we'll have to see how common Poison types become. The only one I can think of at the moment threatening Gard are Dragalge, but it gets hit by Psyshock in its weaker defense, same with Tentacruel. Steel types seem most threatening because they'll almost always be hitting her in the defense.

Skarmory looks like it'll make a nice partner to her, resisting Poison/Steel, where Gard doesn't resist but is more suited to take Electric/Fire in its Sp.Def.
 
Oops, using custom is a bit annoying as Fairy hasn't been added yet. That was meant to be Bullet Punch, which is a 2HKO with Def invested. Basically, I'm saying speed is better than def IMO, as burns will save you more than the added EVs.
Yeah definitely better in Speed than in Defense. Because:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def (custom): 362-428 (106.47 - 125.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def (custom): 315-374 (92.64 - 110%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

Choice Band 1HKO.

Anyway, about your set I find some flaws there. You ran Wish, WoW. Basically you are not fully committed to be a sweeper. You should leave the WoW to the other Pokemons. And you put Substitute as 1 of the options for the 1st slot. So you are telling me that you might run a set with only 1 attack move - Psyshock.

In my humble opinion, I think that CM + 3 offensives should work. It's either you run her defensively, or offensively since her HP and Defense are TER.RI.BLE. If you go for the mixed set with no held item since you go for Mega, you will waste too many turns without doing any damages to the opponent and they can switch in quite freely.

The good playstyle with Offensive CM should be:
1. Bring her out on a Pokemon with little threat to her, or a weaken sweeper, or a Choice Physical sweeper who just used a Fighting type move last turn (Terrakion, Superpower Azumarill, Infernape, Blaziken). You will have a free turn to setup CM.
2. Sweep.

EVs spread should be 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP. Timid/Modest nature.

Your coverage should have Psyshock (or Psychic), Thunderbolt (or Flamethrower) and Moonblast.

You can hit Flying/Water/Fighting/Dragon/Dark/Poison for Super Effective, which covers many threats out there such as all-form of Charizard, Talonflame, Gyarados, Azumarill, Hydreigon, Latios/Latias, Dragonite, Greninja. And as much as I can think of, you can hit neutral damage to almost every other Pokemons. And 165 base Sp.A is really scary. She is only 2nd to Gengar if I remember it right. If you want to take down Steel Type, you can use Flamethrower instead of Thunderbolt.
 
Yeah definitely better in Speed than in Defense. Because:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def (custom): 362-428 (106.47 - 125.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def (custom): 315-374 (92.64 - 110%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

Choice Band 1HKO.

Anyway, about your set I find some flaws there. You ran Wish, WoW. Basically you are not fully committed to be a sweeper. You should leave the WoW to the other Pokemons. And you put Substitute as 1 of the options for the 1st slot. So you are telling me that you might run a set with only 1 attack move - Psyshock.

In my humble opinion, I think that CM + 3 offensives should work. It's either you run her defensively, or offensively since her HP and Defense are TER.RI.BLE. If you go for the mixed set with no held item since you go for Mega, you will waste too many turns without doing any damages to the opponent and they can switch in quite freely.

The good playstyle with Offensive CM should be:
1. Bring her out on a Pokemon with little threat to her, or a weaken sweeper, or a Choice Physical sweeper who just used a Fighting type move last turn (Terrakion, Superpower Azumarill, Infernape, Blaziken). You will have a free turn to setup CM.
2. Sweep.

EVs spread should be 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP. Timid/Modest nature.

Your coverage should have Psyshock (or Psychic), Thunderbolt (or Flamethrower) and Moonblast.

You can hit Flying/Water/Fighting/Dragon/Dark/Poison for Super Effective, which covers many threats out there such as all-form of Charizard, Talonflame, Gyarados, Azumarill, Hydreigon, Latios/Latias, Dragonite, Greninja. And as much as I can think of, you can hit neutral damage to almost every other Pokemons. And 165 base Sp.A is really scary. She is only 2nd to Gengar if I remember it right. If you want to take down Steel Type, you can use Flamethrower instead of Thunderbolt.
Wow this is really helpful for me :D
Btw is it okay if I use dazzling gleam? Because I usually run on 2vs2 with my friends
 
Wow this is really helpful for me :D
Btw is it okay if I use dazzling gleam? Because I usually run on 2vs2 with my friends
Well moves that hit multiple targets in Double Battle have their power reduced by 25%. So Dazzling Gleam starts at 80 BP and ends up at 60 BP. But you still hit both of the targets so it is worth it. Moonblast is used in single 1v1 and it is considered one of the strongest Fairy type move at the moment with 95 BP.
 
I don't understand why you're discussing outspeeding Scizor. Bullet Punch has priority; you're going to take the hit before getting off the WoW. Am I missing something - are you implying a 3HKO even after the first unburned banded hit - or is the discussion moot?​
 
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