Some sort of Egg 'RNG' Abuse (Read the first post!)

[ukoziak]

I did a quick test abou

t the ditto thing:

First pair: Blaziken (M) (HA) + ditto
Result: F/E/M/M/R(23)/F

Second pair: Chespin (M) (HA) + torchic (F) (HA)
Result: F/M/M/M/R(23)/F

Conclusion: ditto does not affect this method (at least as far as stats are concerned. It might be different for HA male + ditto vs male + HA female, but I doubt it). Unfortunately I forgot to make note of the genders and abilities of the hatched torchics (I think they were both male though. I usually notice females).


Also, concerning shinyness- we only know that masuda shinyness is locked. To prove all shinyness is locked we would have to reset a non masuda shiny, reset and possibly change the parents, and get another shiny.

What I did was not the same. I did the following

I used Magikarps as test parents.

Baby Magikarp: M/M/F/x/M/M (used in all cases)

F Ditto: x/x/31/31/x/x
M Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (Perfect)
Baby Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/x (misses Perfect Speed)

Different Ditto:

F Ditto: x/x/31/31/x/31 (has Perfect Speed)
M Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (Perfect)
Baby Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (Now it is Perfect)

As you can see, something went wrong. For some reason, Speed was inherited from the Father, instead of the Mother. So Ditto did something weird here.

 

[Arc Tech]

What I did was not the same. I did the following

I used Magikarps as test parents.

Baby Magikarp: M/M/F/x/M/M (used in all cases)

F Ditto: x/x/31/31/x/x
M Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (Perfect)
Baby Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/x (misses Perfect Speed)

Different Ditto:

F Ditto: x/x/31/31/x/31 (has Perfect Speed)
M Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (Perfect)
Baby Riolu: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (Now it is Perfect)

As you can see, something went wrong. For some reason, Speed was inherited from the Father, instead of the Mother. So Ditto did something weird here.

Riolu is 7:1 ratio, not 1:1 ratio like magikarp; that is what is affecting your results, not the ditto.

 

[ukoziak]

Riolu is 7:1 ratio, not 1:1 ratio like magikarp; that is what is affecting your results, not the ditto.

And here's my Torchic with 7:1 ratio:

Baby Magikarp: M/M/F/x/M/M

F Torchic: 31/31/31/31/x/31
M Torchic: 31/31/31/31/31/x
Baby Torchic: 31/31/x/31/31/31 (as expected)

No problem at all, even though I used the 1:1 Magikarps as test parents. So that's why I think Ditto did something. This is only one example, in which unfortunately, a lot of perfect IV's are present. BUt nothing weird has happened so far, even though Torchic has a different gender ratio than my test parents.

 

[Arc Tech]

And here's my Torchic with 7:1 ratio:

Baby Magikarp: M/M/F/x/M/M

F Torchic: 31/31/31/31/x/31
M Torchic: 31/31/31/31/31/x
Baby Torchic: 31/31/x/31/31/31 (as expected)

No problem at all, even though I used the 1:1 Magikarps as test parents.

Did you make a typo because that does not work out correctly, you would get 31/31/31/x/31/x, not 31/31/x/31/31/31. Even with a typo in the order, would would still have imperfect speed. Assuming this is the same egg as the previous post, I would say it matches the Riolu's pattern of M/M/E/x/M/F (assuming you made a typo and the torchic is 31/31/31/x/31/31).

Even if it was a typo, there's so many 31s there you can't really be sure what inherited from what. It could be F/F/M/x/M/F for all you know. To be sure you need few or no macthing stats (I would say 1 at most, really).

 

[ukoziak]

Did you make a typo because that does not work out correctly, you would get 31/31/31/x/31/x, not 31/31/x/31/31/31.

Even if it was a typo, there's so many 31s there you can't really be sure what inherited from what. It could be F/F/M/x/M/F for all you know. To be sure you need few or no macthing stats (I would say 1 at most, really).

Yeah, you're right. Got a typo there, my bad XD

Anyway should be 31/31/31/x/31/x. I just posted this, because it happens to be the only one I wrote down, and it was correct. And all the other Torchics I did before this one, all matched as well. And according to 92Drew, there is guy who did the same as me. Worked every time. I'm still working on making a perfect Torchic, so I'll be doing a few more today and write it all down.

 

[Croconaw]

Does the inheritance stay the same even if you leave for a long time? Like, you want to go catch a few new Pokemon and you come right back, will the RNG change?

 

[Arc Tech]

I just expanded my test (same egg spread as before).

Cloyster (M) (HA) + Binacle (F)
Result: F/M/M/M/R(23)/F

Cloyster (M) (HA) + Ditto
Result: F/M/M/M/R(23)/F (Male) (NOT HA)

I'm going to have to rehatch the torchics to see if they have the HA and are male. Unfortunately no time right now.

 

[Sandy_Claws]

Okay, I've been reading through the thread and trying to wrap my head around this whole thing. Please bear with me as I'm extremely new to anything even remotely related to RNG manipulation, small as it may be.

So, lets say I want to breed a shiny, female HA Snorunt with 5IVs through the Masuda Method.

From what I've been reading, it seems like using this exploit could potentially make this easier, but I'd appreciate if you guys could walk me through this a bit.

I want to breed a shiny, timid, female HA Snorunt with 5IVs using a male, timid, foreign HA Snorunt and a female HA Snorunt both with three IVs a pop, lets say 31-31-31-0-0-0 and 0-0-0-31-31-31.

SO I should get a male, foreign, [Nature] HA Magikarp and a female HA Magikarp with enough variation in their stats that I can tell which parent's stats are which in the offspring, right?

So I get that ready, and here's where my questions start:

I want to hatch a shiny, right? But that won't just happen right away, so I would think to start hatching eggs like crazy, except that, according to the method, I have to reject an egg in order to carry the RNG to the next parents so, since I don't know WHEN my shiny magikarp will hatch, which egg should I reject?

Or should I just always assume my next egg is gonna be the shiny one and always reject my next egg, save, check for shininess and repeat? Does "repeat" entail removing my magikarps from the Day-Care and then putting them back in the same order?

Or is the save-and-reject enough to allow for the RNG-carry? Meaning I could keep hatching one egg at a time without need for removing the Magikarps each time?

Am I missing something in the process? I probably am. Could you please point it out?

All of this interests me because I really want a way to have more control over what your shiny [whatever pokemon takes forever to hatch] will have as far as nature/gender/ability goes.

Anyways, sorry for the question-dump, and thanks for reading!

 

[ukoziak]

Using this method, you need to assume the next egg is the shiny one.

You can, however (if you don't want to skip any egg), save the game when an egg is ready. Accept the egg and hatch it.

1) If it's a shiny, congratulations, you got a shiny same as the female test parent you have. You can never change this shiny pokemon, because you saved it at the time the egg was already there. But at least, you didn't skip it when it was in fact a shiny pokemon.

2) If it's not a shiny, reset the game. Reject the egg, and save once again. This is when the stats of the next egg will be set. Hatch it, check its inheritance. If it's not what you wished for, reset the game, reject the egg (which you just checked), and repeat from the first step.

What you normally do, is: reject the egg, accept and hatch the next egg, check its inheritance. If you don't like it, reset the game, reject the next egg (that you just checked) and save again so the egg after that is set again. Repeat.

Here's how I made a perfect Torchic, using Magikarp test parents:

Baby Magikarp: M/F/F/x/M/M

Torchic (M): 31/31/x/31/31/31
Ditto: x/31/31/x/x/x

Baby Torchic: 31/31/31/x/31/31 (as expected)

So now the Ditto did not cause any problems at all, nor did the different gender ratio.

 

[Avacyn]

I tried this method this morning and got a perfect Adamant Dratini on my first egg. And I spent maybe 5 or 6 hours each, breeding a perfect Gyarados, Hydreigon and Aegislash by replacing the parents and praying, so needless to say I was impressed. I didn't get Marvel Scale though, unfortunately. But back on topic, that's the only time it has been perfect for me. I keep on getting 2 wildcard stats, even though I'm using the same test parents as my first Dratini, and they are both still holding the Everstone and Destiny Knot, and have recieved no EVs at all.

My most recent example:
Magikarp
Female Male Baby
88 86 86 (dad)
23 17 18 (wild)
61 72 72 (dad)
18 22 18 (mom)
33 36 34 (wild)
100 89 89 (dad)

Does anybody know how I can avoid having more than 1 wildcard stat? I thought that the Destiny Knot ensured that only 1 stat would be randomized but it isn't working properly for some reason. I'm still pretty new to breeding, so forgive me if I missed something basic.

 

[ukoziak]

What do those numbers mean? And you mean you keep getting 2 stats that are not inherited from the parents? Should not be possible with the destiny knot.

 

[Avacyn]

What do those numbers mean? And you mean you keep getting 2 stats that are not inherited from the parents? Should not be possible with the destiny knot.

Sorry, I'm still pretty new to Smogon's forum comment system. The numbers are the stats of the female/male/baby at level 50, respectively. I tried to space them out to be easy to read but it didn't work out like I had planned. I might have found the problem though, as somehow my male Magikarp got some Speed EVs along the way. Not quite sure how, but I got a new male and I'm trying again.

 

[goomy pls]

Does the RNG pause when there are no pokemon in the daycare that are capable of producing an egg?

For example, I test and see a pattern like MMMFFR with the R being 0 speed. I take out the pokemon from the daycare and go catch/trade some Honedge with perfect stats in the right places, then put them in the daycare, to get a spread of 31/31/31/31/31/0?

I'm thinking there's a chance this might not work, if the daycare "attempts" to generate an egg every ____ number of steps regardless of whether the pokemon in the daycare are able to breed or not.

 

[himynameisAD]

Does the RNG pause when there are no pokemon in the daycare that are capable of producing an egg?

For example, I test and see a pattern like MMMFFR with the R being 0 speed. I take out the pokemon from the daycare and go catch/trade some Honedge with perfect stats in the right places, then put them in the daycare, to get a spread of 31/31/31/31/31/0?

I'm thinking there's a chance this might not work, if the daycare "attempts" to generate an egg every ____ number of steps regardless of whether the pokemon in the daycare are able to breed or not.

i don't believe the RNG pauses. from my experience the RNG changes if you take any pokemon out of the daycare without putting a pair back in, possibly because the RNG changes by taking steps or encountering pokemon like last gen.

 

[Arc Tech]

Well, some more results (Once again, same egg)

Ditto + Jynx (100% female):

F/M/F/F/M/M (random stat was equal to one of the parent's, I get this same pattern again later so I believe it's the speed)

Heliolisk (Male) + Kangaskan (100% female):

E/M/E/F/M/R(20-24)

Sawk (100% male) + Ditto:

F/M/F/F/M/R(21) Note: had the opposite ability from sawk parent. Didn't take note of abilities in the previous two.

Finally, since I was expecting the 100% male spread to match a male test egg, I did a check with Blaziken (HA, male) + Ditto:

F/E/M/M/R(23)/F

This is the same as my first test. the torchic was male and had the Blaze ability.

It seems to be caused by changes in gender ratio, but simply dividing the spread as male/female does not seem to be doing the trick. Indeed, 100% male + 100% female seem to be using the same spread.

Also, I've done other things in the middle of this test, battling (ingame) and evolving/catching pokemon. I haven't gone into the friend safari but I have run into a horde of nidoran, which due to their unbreedable status have a similar mechanic (wait its the evos that can't breed. guess this needs testing). The final check egg matched the first egg so the RNG was unaffected. It has been locked in, and I believe it will remain that way until I generate and egg and save.

 

[ukoziak]

Might be a stupid question, but what does the E mean?

 

[SMZ]

Does anyone know if the gender is locked or not for the egg received after the rejected one? I am asking because I am doing this method for breeding Torchic, and I want a female one, but so far all I've gotten is male. I know gender ratio is low for female, but just wanted to make sure before I continue hatching.

 

[Stellar]

Generally, PID is locked in these sorts of things, so the gender of that egg will never change.

 

[SMZ]

Generally, PID is locked in these sorts of things, so the gender of that egg will never change.

Ah, suspected as much, but wanted to make sure. Thank you.

 

[Arc Tech]

Gender will not change so long as you use the same gender ratio test parents and target egg.

The E stands for either (mom+dad both had 31s in those stats. Sorry I didn't have a better breeding pair, I usually wonder trade all pokes with 3 ivs or less once I get a 5 iv version). It corresponds to the other spreads though, so I think it's fine. As a single stand alone run I wouldn't use it though.

------

EDIT:

Blaziken + Litleo (1:3 male)
result: male, F/M/M/M/R(23)/F spread - same as all other non-guaranteed gender.

Ditto + Magneton

Result: D/G/D/D/G/G(21, probably the random)
corresponds to monosex spread with ditto = F, magneton = M. I accidently used a parent with the speed IV the same that is randomized in the other tests. Oops.

At this point I'm certain dittos have nothing to do with this. It seems like pokemon that can have multiple genders use a different spread than those with only one gender. However, it did end up being male for all noncertain ratios, but ukoziak's claims that magikarps have always worked for his torchics means that probably doesn't mattter unless he has had extreme luck. I'm going to test the effect encountering pokes in the friend safari has next.

EDIT2: Went to friend safari and caught a magcargo. Result:

Cloyster + Ditto
F/M/M/M/R(23)/F (as expected)
conclusion: other than switching between bisexual and monosexual pokemon, nothing is gonna budge that spread.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

I'm just glad it's confirmed that 100% female, genderless and 100% male Pokemon use the same spread.

But what we still have to test, is whether 1/4 female and 3/4 female use the same or similar spread. An example of the former is Machop, and an example of the latter is Skitty.

If they don't, then Growlithe is our only option for a 1/4 female test mother in the Field egg group.

 

[kaspertheklown]

82/20/73/31/29/77/ Male Karp everstone
91/26/71/20/28/95/ Female Karp destinyknot
1. Put in daycare
2. Reject egg
3. Save
4. Hatch egg
5. Stats at lvl 50 (R/M/M/R/M/M)
Why am I getting two random stats?
Do the test parents have to have 3 ivs to work properly?

 

[Arc Tech]

Pyroar is 1:3 female, so that's been tested. I've done 7:1 male and had it the same as 1:1 and 1:3, so I'd be very shocked if 3:1 differed. If someone wants to test it,g o ahead, but I'm not going to bother right now. I want to get a spread that has different genders for different ratios.

Check the EVs of your parent karps. Also make sure they're all the same nature.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

But the question is, how does this work for Nidoran and Illumise?

Well, if this is true then I will only need two test mothers. I'm already breeding a test father in the field egg group so I will just go with Miltank and Pachirisu.

 

[remlabmez]

Well I am running into problems with ditto.

have been using the RNG iv abuse glitch to breed pokemon easier. I havent had a problem except until now.

Im using two magickarps to check IVs and have never had a problem.

f / x / f / m / m / m

I'm trying to get a 5iv Rotom.

I have made sure that these are the correct IVs passed being down, I even doubled checked and it was the same both times.

but for some reason when I breed a rotom and ditto with the IVs that are 'supposed' to be passed down aren't.

Both times my rotom came out the same 31 / x / 31 / 31 / 31 / x

It seems rotom isn't passing down the last IV speed even though its supposed as it's the male.

Anyone have any insight as to why this is happening? I still have my save set for this iv set