I'm actually running this set but with 252 atk and speed. I use the Assault Vest to turn random ohkos into 2hkos like Gar's dazzling gleam, then counter kill them. It's also nice when a special sweeper's stab is only a 3hko on Chomp instead of a 2hko.
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Pokémon Garchomp
- Thread starter Yeah Galo Sengan
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Assault Vest is... interesting, but is it really that helpful if it fails to keep him alive against the two biggest attacks against him, Ice Beam and Draco Meteor? If he can't really survive those I think he loses out too much on power. Tyranitar at least because of auto Sandstorm gets his SpD boosted so high that the only special move threatening him is Gengar's Focus Miss. Theoretically Zygarde would make a far better Assault Vest user comparing their defensive stats.
Garchomp: 108/95/85
Zygarde: 108/121/95
Admittedly Zygarde really wants the boosting moves as his Attack is far lower than Garchomp's, especially since he gets both Coil and Dragon Dance which Garchomp would kill for. I think a single Yache Berry would be more beneficial since he really wants the Swords Dance boost but really Garchomp is forced out of battle far too often now. Choice sets are dangerous when both of his STABs have common immunities, and while he is bulky with investment he doesn't have the right resistances or boosting/recovery moves to really hang around. Garchomp is so in limbo right now I honestly have trouble using him efficiently. His diversity is his biggest threat to the enemy, to the point you'd probably be best off bluffing a certain item. You could bluff a band with scarf or something using Outrage and when a Fairy switches in like Togekiss or Mawile to attempt to set up you Stone Edge or EQ them in the face! Really, surprise factoris his biggest benefit and I suggest utilizing it. My favorite pokemon to play are the ones where success often depends on your opponent's ability to accurately predict what set you're running. Whereas a one trick pony with at best two viable sets competitively, while theoretically strong, are easier to dance around.
Garchomp: 108/95/85
Zygarde: 108/121/95
Admittedly Zygarde really wants the boosting moves as his Attack is far lower than Garchomp's, especially since he gets both Coil and Dragon Dance which Garchomp would kill for. I think a single Yache Berry would be more beneficial since he really wants the Swords Dance boost but really Garchomp is forced out of battle far too often now. Choice sets are dangerous when both of his STABs have common immunities, and while he is bulky with investment he doesn't have the right resistances or boosting/recovery moves to really hang around. Garchomp is so in limbo right now I honestly have trouble using him efficiently. His diversity is his biggest threat to the enemy, to the point you'd probably be best off bluffing a certain item. You could bluff a band with scarf or something using Outrage and when a Fairy switches in like Togekiss or Mawile to attempt to set up you Stone Edge or EQ them in the face! Really, surprise factoris his biggest benefit and I suggest utilizing it. My favorite pokemon to play are the ones where success often depends on your opponent's ability to accurately predict what set you're running. Whereas a one trick pony with at best two viable sets competitively, while theoretically strong, are easier to dance around.
I've been using Scarfchomp.
Garchomp @Choice Scarf
Adamant
6hp/252 atk/252 spd
Rough Skin
Poison Jab
Earthquake
Crunch/Fire Fang (Considering a Hasty or Naughty nature so I can use Fireblast)
Outrage/Dragon Claw
It gets the job done. Talonflame is dangerous, but thanks to Rough Skin I've actually taken two Life Orb carriers with me, so I think it's a better ability than Sand Veil. And evasion hax isn't classy anyway. Poison Jab crushes smug fairies. Dragon Claw can be chosen over Outrage if you can't be assed to lure fairies out early.
Garchomp @Choice Scarf
Adamant
6hp/252 atk/252 spd
Rough Skin
Poison Jab
Earthquake
Crunch/Fire Fang (Considering a Hasty or Naughty nature so I can use Fireblast)
Outrage/Dragon Claw
It gets the job done. Talonflame is dangerous, but thanks to Rough Skin I've actually taken two Life Orb carriers with me, so I think it's a better ability than Sand Veil. And evasion hax isn't classy anyway. Poison Jab crushes smug fairies. Dragon Claw can be chosen over Outrage if you can't be assed to lure fairies out early.
You should definitely consider Rock Slide or Stone Edge over Poison Jab. STABS EQ is just barely weaker than SE Poison Jab, which can't hit Klefki or Mawile anyway, and Rock handles Togekiss.
I get bent repeatedly by stone miss and my team is more afraid of azumarill than it is of Togekiss, but I definitely considered it.
Is there any real reason to use MegaChomp over Kyu-B (other than Garchomp looking a lot nicer)?
Mega Garchomp: 108/170/115/120/95/92
Black Kyurem: 125/170/100/120/90/95
Black Kyurem, even though it has Ice-typing, is overall bulkier, and Garchomp is forced to run Garchompite to get a 33% boost to only one of its STABs and perhaps a coverage move (read: Stone Edge) in the sand, which is now more difficult to keep on the field with a turn limit. Kyu-B can get a Life Orb and experience the same power boost to all of his attack moves. He could also opt for Choice Band and cleanly outpower Garchomp's Outrages and Earthquakes with his own Outrage, and his Substitute sets will last longer than Garchomp's with Leftovers and possibly Roost.
On top of it all, Kyu-B is faster. Not by much, but faster.
Mega Garchomp: 108/170/115/120/95/92
Black Kyurem: 125/170/100/120/90/95
Black Kyurem, even though it has Ice-typing, is overall bulkier, and Garchomp is forced to run Garchompite to get a 33% boost to only one of its STABs and perhaps a coverage move (read: Stone Edge) in the sand, which is now more difficult to keep on the field with a turn limit. Kyu-B can get a Life Orb and experience the same power boost to all of his attack moves. He could also opt for Choice Band and cleanly outpower Garchomp's Outrages and Earthquakes with his own Outrage, and his Substitute sets will last longer than Garchomp's with Leftovers and possibly Roost.
On top of it all, Kyu-B is faster. Not by much, but faster.
Garchomp has superior typing. Comparable bulk with superior typing and ability to perform the same role gives Garchomp the edge in this scenario.
The point was I think Garchomp might be performing the same role but not as well [as Kyu-B]. Superior defensive typing has its merits, but Kyu-B can still offer more overall power and durability.
Not by much.
Mega Garchomp: 108/170/115/120/95/92
Black Kyurem: 125/170/100/120/90/95
Extremely comparable in both aspects. Both can perform the same mixed role, but Garchomp has the superior typing.
Personally I prefer pairing Ferrothorn/Kyurem-B over M-Garchomp on rain teams. Kyurem-B is slightly bulkier and those extra 3 points in speed are wonderful. M-Garchomp on sand teams is nothing to play with.
P.S. Garchomp/Ferrothorn do form a much better core however. Ferrothorn covers Garchomps Ice/Dragon/Fairy weakness. Garchomp resists the Fire attacks that threaten Ferrothorn. adding Kingdra to the team will somewhat remove the need for Kyurem-B in rain.
P.S. Garchomp/Ferrothorn do form a much better core however. Ferrothorn covers Garchomps Ice/Dragon/Fairy weakness. Garchomp resists the Fire attacks that threaten Ferrothorn. adding Kingdra to the team will somewhat remove the need for Kyurem-B in rain.
M-Garchomp is forced to rely on Fire Blast for coverage, so Ferro/Kyu-B is naturally better in rain.
I still can't see the reason to use M-Garchomp. Kyurem-B has more overall power, and as BlackSIlk90 said, those extra 3 points of speed really do make a difference. M-Garchomp can't access the same stupidly powerful Banded Outrage Kyu-B can, nor can it run Scarf, its Substitute isn't as durable.
M-Garchomp's defensive typing won't help it when it's attacking, either. The fact that it can't hit as hard or as quickly, etc etc, everything I've already said, I just don't see any real reasons to be using M-Garchomp when Kyu-B appears at first glance to do everything MChomp does, but better.
Wait, how does M-Garchomp hit less than Kyurem-B? They both have 170 Atk and 120 SpA. Of course Kyurem-B has more HP, but that's made up for with M-Garchomp's better typing. M-Garchomp also has better Def and better SpD so it has more overall bulk. The only bad thing about M-Garchomp is the 3 Speed drop. But for a bulky attacker, I would choose M-Garchomp due to better bulk, good offenses, and good typing.
I love bulky Garchomp with Rocky Helmet. Awesome for setting stealth rock and sponging u-turns. The set I use is:
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
252 hp / outspeed +nature base 70s / 16 atk / rest in defense
Adamant nature
stealth rock
roar / dragon tail
earthquake
filler
Terrific for softening up opposing teams.
Except Kyurem is capable of holding an item to boost its performance.
And that mitigates the poor typing... how?
Kyurem-B can hold Life Orb and Choice Band, Mega Garchomp doesn't have that luxury.
Kyu-B can't be used on the Nintendo Metagame, so on cartiradige(spell fail) Mega Chomp is better.
I'm sorry dude but we're on Smogon talking about OU, nobody cares about Nintendo's metagame.
Before this thread shits up terribly and ginganinja infracts our heads, I'll just say this. I completely forgot about the fact that Kyurem-B can hold an item so I will say that that was my mistake. Kyurem-B DOES have better offenses than Garchomp. But one also remembers that Garchomp is monstrous in the fact that he can run Swords Dance to boost his attack to levels beyond imagination. Also, while Garchomp is very slow, his bulk and typing allow him to take a couple of hits before going down.
But Rachi, while we're talking about Smogon's metagame, we're still in terms of pre-Pokebank. So we can't even HAVE Kyurem-B yet. So as of now, M-Garchomp is better because no Kyurem-B exists. (and idk how the topic came about, because it shouldn't have come up in the first place.)
Scarf can help in mitigating that by outright outspeeding and killing before being hit, outside of priority but we know full well it can survive that, and band just offers immediate power without the need to set up with SD. It also has roost under its movepool so unlike Chomp it does have the ability to recover. All this without having to give up a mega slot. It also can perform the role of a mixed sweeper much better due to a better special movepool to utilize, gaining a STAB ice beam and Earthpower for coverage (and can hit Rotom-W thanks to his ability). They are comparable statwise but considering that the other has a choice in items and movepool to better differentiate itself the comparison can only go so far.
And the question was how would you justify using a mega slot when a Pokemon already closely performing the same role that have similar stats but with a wider array of options exist, once released. Yes Garchomp has superior typing but it doesn't make it the superior choice when it has to give up other options that limit it to being more predictable, while the other despite poorer typing does have a lot of other pros that outweigh it.
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I'll drop it after this but I just want to point out that Pokebank-OU exists on Showdown so the fact that we can't have Kyurem-B on real carts yet doesn't really mean anything.
I know, but it's in one of the forums rules to not post stuff about after Pokebank.
E: Crossed smiley face because of Rechi xD
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