Gengarite is way better then sash, the question should be mega stone or lefties.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Gengar
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
- Status
I faced on once. It's terrifying. Hypnosis then Perish Song all while being unable to switch. I don't remember the set exactly, but I think it was Perish Song/Hypnosis/Sub/Giga Drain or Shadow Ball. Thanks to those defense boosts he gets upon Mega Evolution (particularly his SpD boost), your window to KO is very small before or after you wake up.
What he did was lead off with it, and since I lead with a standard Anti-Lead Infernape, I had no chance. I assumed it was a basic all out attacker since that was all the rage, so it caught me off guard. Bye Bye Infernape.
You gotta really rely on the hax gods to win with it, but also while you're facing it. He took out Infernape without even breaking sweat, but I caught a break with my Excadrill avoiding the sleep and KOing. It's manageable, but it's definitely still scary.
Last edited:
Lol, I do like his stratigy, but it doesn't work if a Ghost switchs in and Hypnosis has horrible accuarcy
It must have been someone testing a set.
Confussion ray could have been slightly better for them to use I'd think, tho there is still a chance that you could hit them.
If they ran WoW, it could reck the damage of your team to, so they could have made sub stay up longer.
I think you are lucky that they used Hynosis and it failed, which it will 50% of the time anyways(Theoritically)
An interesting note: Since Dream World Pokemon cannot be shiny, a Shiny Gengar is a dead giveaway that it doesn't have Sludge Wave.
Has anyone tried a full on sweeper set based on the setting up of toxic spikes?
Toxic Doom
MegaGengar@Gengarite
Nature: Timid
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP
Hex
Venoshock
Hidden power ground
Thunderbolt
The idea of this set is that if you can set up toxic spikes or status your opponents, you can get over a 50% boost to the power of a regular shadowball or sludgewave.
130 BP in ghost and poison stab is nothing to laugh about. Then you have hidden power ground to super effective pesky steel or poison types who refuse to get statused, and thunderbolt for flying types who also avoid the toxic spikes.
Toxic Doom
MegaGengar@Gengarite
Nature: Timid
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP
Hex
Venoshock
Hidden power ground
Thunderbolt
The idea of this set is that if you can set up toxic spikes or status your opponents, you can get over a 50% boost to the power of a regular shadowball or sludgewave.
130 BP in ghost and poison stab is nothing to laugh about. Then you have hidden power ground to super effective pesky steel or poison types who refuse to get statused, and thunderbolt for flying types who also avoid the toxic spikes.
Perish Song Gengar is amazing, but Hypnosis isn't the best option, Shadow Ball/Perish Song/Protect/Substitute is much more reliable. If you come in something you can force out as you MegaEvolve, anything that comes in and doesn't outspeed is dead while you only take 25% damage, including (and especially) Assault Vest Tyranitar. Now that Steel no longer resists Ghost, Shadow Ball is really the only offensive move you need if you have another way to handle TTar.
You don't even have to force the other Pokémon out as you megavolve. You just have to make sure you're unstatused and have at least 26% HP come turn's end (or try for two consecutive Protects if you can't Sub). Shadow Ball covers the Ghost-types who can swap out of Shadow Tag (minus Spiritomb), and no one uses Soundproof.
EDIT: Though you're still buggered against anything with U-turn, Volt Switch or Shed Shell.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-59531799
here's a replay if youre interested. It's challenging to use simply due to the lack of bulk gengar has clearly. I would have been able to kill gengar if I knew it was a no attack disable set. There's really a select number of mons that arent going to able to power through mega gengar in a couple hits
I fail to see how perish song gar beats tyranitar
Tyranitar switches in
Gengar uses Perish song
Tyranitar uses pursuit
Gengar uses protect
Gengar uses substitute
Tyranitar uses pursuit
The sbustitutes fades
gengar stays in and dies to perish song
gengar switches and dies to pursuit
YOu make a trade, but you cant beat it.
Last edited:
How does Gengar die to perish song? T-Tar will die once it protects on the last countdown.
So, hear me out of this. Theorymon away!
Gengar @ Gengarite
Levitate -> Shadow Tag
Timid Nature
252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Defense (modify HP for 4 subs, whatever that adds up to)
Protect
Substitute
Perish Song
Taunt
lolwut, no attacks? Well, why not? Gengar takes a crap on any attackers slower than it without any attacks anyways, so Shadow Ball is only really for last ditch damage. Why not stop defensive 'mons from setting up? Pokemon like Hippowdon, Smeargle, Ferrothorn, etc. are never going to beat Gengar, so their last moments will be spent trying to set up hazards, or possibly Whirlwind or Roar Gengar out as it tries to sub, freeing themselves from Shadow Tag in time to escape unharmed. Gengar can stop them by using Taunt on a predicted status move (and when you try to trap Skarmory, its pretty obvious when that's going to happen), then set up Perish Song and stall them out quite easily.
This makes Gengar an awesome anti-lead and trapper, in the sense that it can shut down attempts to start something early on in a match with little opposition, provided you play it right and your opponent doesn't expect Taunt. The only things that can beat it are faster Taunt (because it is Taunt bait like this) and faster attackers that can stop it from being able to sub (+75%).
Gengar @ Gengarite
Levitate -> Shadow Tag
Timid Nature
252 Speed, 252 HP, 4 Defense (modify HP for 4 subs, whatever that adds up to)
Protect
Substitute
Perish Song
Taunt
lolwut, no attacks? Well, why not? Gengar takes a crap on any attackers slower than it without any attacks anyways, so Shadow Ball is only really for last ditch damage. Why not stop defensive 'mons from setting up? Pokemon like Hippowdon, Smeargle, Ferrothorn, etc. are never going to beat Gengar, so their last moments will be spent trying to set up hazards, or possibly Whirlwind or Roar Gengar out as it tries to sub, freeing themselves from Shadow Tag in time to escape unharmed. Gengar can stop them by using Taunt on a predicted status move (and when you try to trap Skarmory, its pretty obvious when that's going to happen), then set up Perish Song and stall them out quite easily.
This makes Gengar an awesome anti-lead and trapper, in the sense that it can shut down attempts to start something early on in a match with little opposition, provided you play it right and your opponent doesn't expect Taunt. The only things that can beat it are faster Taunt (because it is Taunt bait like this) and faster attackers that can stop it from being able to sub (+75%).
Hippowdon can earthquake mega gar to death, and ferrothorn hurts a lot with gyro ball. How is that nothing?
Duh, they can attack. I'm dumb, can't theorymon good. Disregard, then. Nothing's going to sit there while you taunt and Perish Song it.
The original Sub-Disable still works wonders on MGar many people seem to assume your either a destiny bond or a perish song user, so its quite funny to cach people off guard
If only Gengar could learn Calm Mind... I used to run a Shadow Tag Lampent with flash/charm/sand attack/thunder wave support from dugtrio and Gothitelle on battle simulators and it would easily get + 6 special attack, special defense, and speed and get behind a substitute.
I've tried using a gothitelle with flatter, charm, and t-wave to cripple a physical attacker and then have Gengar use psych up, substitute, and start sweeping, but it's just too hard to pull off. First of all, flatter only raises special attack 1 stage (i swear it used to be 2) and gengar can't seem to set up even against a -6 attack, paralyzed, confused sweeper. Not to mention everyone is running 3+ priority users which ruin me.
Has anyone considered a somewhat bulky hypnosis/dream eater set? It provides recovery since the opponent is unable to switch. That low accuracy is killer though
I've tried using a gothitelle with flatter, charm, and t-wave to cripple a physical attacker and then have Gengar use psych up, substitute, and start sweeping, but it's just too hard to pull off. First of all, flatter only raises special attack 1 stage (i swear it used to be 2) and gengar can't seem to set up even against a -6 attack, paralyzed, confused sweeper. Not to mention everyone is running 3+ priority users which ruin me.
Has anyone considered a somewhat bulky hypnosis/dream eater set? It provides recovery since the opponent is unable to switch. That low accuracy is killer though
I have a question regarding Gengar's move set for pokemon X & Y ( and if it's better than the B/W)
In B/W it's either sub + disable or pain split.
Sadly Gengar can't learn pain split in pokemon X/Y and instead seems to have a moveset of, well a lot of different move sets it seems.
1st is: Is the old or new move set better? Because I quite like the idea behind sub + pain split. Would be a great way to get rid of a Blissey.
2nd is, is it possible to trade a gengar from pokemon D/P/P ( who's learned pain split + sub ) to pokemon Y/X when the pokemon bank arrives?
If so then I'll most likely be waiting for that unless his new move sets are better without a doubt ( I'm really keen on the part of having it handle a Blissey)
EDIT: Seems like it can't even learn Perish song yet until pokebank is out, jesus.
Perish related move sets are also out now.
In B/W it's either sub + disable or pain split.
Sadly Gengar can't learn pain split in pokemon X/Y and instead seems to have a moveset of, well a lot of different move sets it seems.
1st is: Is the old or new move set better? Because I quite like the idea behind sub + pain split. Would be a great way to get rid of a Blissey.
2nd is, is it possible to trade a gengar from pokemon D/P/P ( who's learned pain split + sub ) to pokemon Y/X when the pokemon bank arrives?
If so then I'll most likely be waiting for that unless his new move sets are better without a doubt ( I'm really keen on the part of having it handle a Blissey)
EDIT: Seems like it can't even learn Perish song yet until pokebank is out, jesus.
Perish related move sets are also out now.
Last edited:
I feel a big winner this Gen is SubDisable Gar. For some wild reason nobody expects it. I know LO Gar, MegaGar and other offensive Variants are the standard now but people forget how good this thing was before, now it can smack things around with Stab Shadow Ball even more with the steel nerf, and more safely due to how easy it is to get a free sub. It got better both due to being Rarer and just general changes in Gen 6. IMO this is still the No.1 Gengar set, it puts in more work than ever. I mean i've seen People predict MegaGar and EQ it, bring in pokes reliant on Sucker Punch to revenge and more. it just doesn't work with this thing. Also it walls MegaKahn if you get it in which is very nice. I love this thing more than ever.
It... sort of walls MegaKhan. If it's running Crunch, you do force it out, but you're left with no substitute, and not enough health to make another one on the switch-in.
Yes and no. although you get hit hard by the second Crunch, once you disable it you would get probably enough to make another sub as most Khans don't run anything else to touch you. SP is also seems to be the Standard (For some reason) ATM so your pretty safe. its not a 100% Reliable counter but it works 90% of the time
I wrote this post on October 24th, yet it seems like only now is the Perish Trapper seeing use. People need to listen to me more haha. It's by far MGengar's best set, the standard all out attacker is decent but a little underwhelming.
I strongly disagree, If you're opponent can take out your sub, then it is screwed. I'll explain further.
You use subsitute, they use any other random attack, you disable it but now your sub is possibly broken. Now they attack you with a diffrent move and you are likely dead
Don't be stupid when using that combo. Do not Disable something that can OHKO you with two different moves, SWITCH. I tested it and I found that I wasn't using Disable very much. It only really helps against Scizor, and that's because 70% of them are Choiced. It helps to escape from Puruit but you can just use Sub for that.
In Pokebank Disable lets you switch PerishTrap Gengar out of Pursuiters, so that's a plus.
I still prefer using Taunt+3 Attacks or Sub+3 Attacks. Although SubSplit is good in Pokebank.
- Status