Pokémon Kangaskhan

[alexwolf]

alexwolf, while I do agree that Rocky Helm is a great deterrent for Kangs, I wouldn't say that in itself is enough to completely rule out, in the very least, a suspect test. Arguments presented in this thread are strong enough to support a suspect test at the very least for Kangs, and we shouldn't be so quick to rule out possible banning either.

Luigi player isn't Whismicott a bit unorthodox to consider as a counter / check? What other merits does it bring apart from being Kang, really?

Suspect testing won't happen in the pre-PokeBank metagame and this is not the place to talk about a potential suspect test of Mega Kanga for the PokeBank metagame. If it is indeed suspect-worthy and when the time is right, the appropriate thread to discuss about its banning will be made.

 

[newtonja]

The question is, why would you fight a sableye with kang anyway?

Im saying that sableye is a good way to shut mega kang down. In other words he is a pokemon that would force kang to switch out which is what we want.

 

[farranpoison]

Im saying that sableye is a good way to shut mega kang down. In other words he is a pokemon that would force kang to switch out which is what we want.

In that vein, MBanette would be a decent check too. Priority WoW and Priority Destiny Bond in case Kangaskhan gets too... Scrappy?

shoot me now

 

[nygerman]

I use fake out and double edge.

Power-up-punch and Double Edge will OHKO Ghost tree.

Plus:

252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 339-399 (96.3 - 113.35%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

[DaiGuren]

I like how every MegaKhan counter/check thats proposed in this thread is answered as if MegaKhan has no 4MSS.

He needs Return for stab. Crunch for bulky Ghost types. PuP for atk boost. Fire Punch for steel walls. Earthquake for a non-contact move. Sucker Punch for priority.

If MegaKhan gives up on one of those moves, he gains a potential weakness. Of course, you have your teammates to cover that weakness, but still, the fact that MegaKhan is forced out already proves that MegaKhan is not some unstoppable behemoth that you guys are making him out to be.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I use fake out and double edge.

Power-up-punch and Double Edge will OHKO Ghost tree.

Plus:

252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 339-399 (96.3 - 113.35%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Erm i know mega kanga is strong but your calcs are way off.

252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 195-229 (55.39 - 65.05%) -- 96.88% chance to 2HKO

I dont really see the point of double edge tbh. After a power up punch return koes the same targets while not inflicting recoil, and even without a boost its still strong enough to get the job done.

 

[nygerman]

I like how every MegaKhan counter/check thats proposed in this thread is answered as if MegaKhan has no 4MSS.

He needs Return for stab. Crunch for bulky Ghost types. PuP for atk boost. Fire Punch for steel walls. Earthquake for a non-contact move. Sucker Punch for priority.

If MegaKhan gives up on one of those moves, he gains a potential weakness. Of course, you have your teammates to cover that weakness, but still, the fact that MegaKhan is forced out already proves that MegaKhan is not some unstoppable behemoth that you guys are making him out to be.

Fire punch should never be used. The fact that Khan can OHKO any of his counters within his movepool shows how powerful khan is. Keep in mind that you have teammates as well to help you deal with the pokemon that resists khan.

Because Khan has so many options, you can't guarantee a check to Khan except for maybe rocky helmet garchomp/ferrothorn.

 

[newtonja]

Fire punch should never be used. The fact that Khan can OHKO any of his counters within his movepool shows how powerful khan is. Keep in mind that you have teammates as well to help you deal with the pokemon that resists khan.

Because Khan has so many options, you can't guarantee a check to Khan except for maybe rocky helmet garchomp/ferrothorn.

Of course fire punch should be used, what are you expecting to do to skarmory? Not every time obviously but fire punch is definately a viable option

 

[DaiGuren]

Of course fire punch should be used, what are you expecting to do to skarmory? Not every time obviously but fire punch is definately a viable option

Add Ferrothorn and Scizor to that list. With Leech Seed and Protect, MegaKhan will most likely be the first one to fall. Scizor resists everything MegaKhan carries except EQ, which only hits for neutral, and Scizor can OHKO back with Close Combat.

 

[RufflesPro]

Since when Scizor learns Close Combat? You mean Superpower. And Mega Scizor can't OHKO Mega Kangaskhan with Superpower, while kangaskhan can PuP giving it +2 atk then Sucker Punch after Scizor having -1 Def. As for Ferrathron, Kangaskhan can keep spamming PuP eventually it'll do a lot (Even though iron barbs) and Kangaskhan can always take leech seed and switch out.

 

[DaiGuren]

Lawl my apologies. I meant Superpower, yeap. Also,

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 430-508 (122.15 - 144.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While,

+1 252+ Atk (custom) Low Sweep vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 105-124 (30.61 - 36.15%) -- 54.27% chance to 3HKO

I chose Low Sweep because of PuP's base 40, plus MegaKhan's ability, which would propel PuP to 60.

So yeah, based on the calcs, yes banded Scizor can OHKO MegaKhan

 

[November Blue]

Terrakion seems like it'd be a great check, once released. I'd be very surprised if Close Combat doesn't OHKO Kanga, and boosted Sucker Punch DOES KO Terrakion. Kanga also risks giving Terrakion a Justified boost, and if it switches out, Terrakion gets a free setup.

Faster Fighting-types that can tank Sucker Punch seem like decent checks. Mega Lucario, as I said before, 4x resists and OHKOes in return. Keldeo is another one, come to think of it.

 

[Nysyr]

Gentlemen, I give you the Mega Mom counter.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Awful EV spread? Maybe, but hey it's a counter

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I don't see why that's an awful EV spread, since it is what Cofagrigus has always run. Hidden Power Fighting is gimmicky, though, considering Shadow Ball hits Steel-types just as hard, and Will-O-Wisp cripples Tyranitar anyway.

But yeah, defensive Ghost-types with Will-O-Wisp are certainly the best counters to this monster. Cofagrigus is an especially good one, as you noted, considering Mummy nullifies Parental Bond.

 

[gengod]

But yeah, defensive Ghost-types with Will-O-Wisp are certainly the best counters to this monster. Cofagrigus is an especially good one, as you noted, considering Mummy nullifies Parental Bond.

Kang can beat most Ghosts just by running Sub. Yes it'll lose one of it's coverage moves but with Ghosts being one of the most common switches for this thing it's a pretty good option.

 

[Perseu]

I've never had MUCH problems with this mon. Once I got 4x0'd when i was winning by this demon, i started to use sableye and rocky helmet garchomp, and i dont feel this was a great loss to my team coz theyre already very useful mons. If it uses sub and you dont have a ghost type or something able to handle it without a coverage move, just break the sub with u-turn and send in mega lucario.

 

[Stallion]

Is it just me, or have I seen a lot of random Rocky Helmet's popping up on ladder lately? People are starting to realise that the best way to kill Mega Kanga is to use its ability against it and have it kill itself. Bulky Garchomp in particular strips off 58% of Kanga's health just by switching into any attack not named Earthquake or Sucker Punch. Still a very niche counter mind you, but a good way to stop it I guess. If Khan uses PuP -> EQ that shouldn't kill Chomp (its strongest combination it can do against it without killing itself) and you can just strike back.

 

[newtonja]

Is it just me, or have I seen a lot of random Rocky Helmet's popping up on ladder lately? People are starting to realise that the best way to kill Mega Kanga is to use its ability against it and have it kill itself. Bulky Garchomp in particular strips off 58% of Kanga's health just by switching into any attack not named Earthquake or Sucker Punch. Still a very niche counter mind you, but a good way to stop it I guess. If Khan uses PuP -> EQ that shouldn't kill Chomp (its strongest combination it can do against it without killing itself) and you can just strike back.

yea, I noticed That, although the two most common are the garchomp and the ferrothorn, although people should realize countering mega kang with ferrothorn is a really bad idea. But realisticly throwing rocky helmat is just a waste on most pokemon

 

[Perseu]

I use this garchomp:

Garchomp Rock Helmet
Evs: max HP, speed to have 280 and rest into attack
Nature: adamant
Movesest:
-EQ
-Dragon Claw
-Stone edge
-Swords dance

I almost always use this as switch to khan, and its always wins or forces switches, specially if they use fake out. This is not deadweight by any means, as i can be a troll to most physical attackers anyways and handles well most talonflames and aegislash. I just feel this swords dance is many times useless, but i dont know what to use here, so meh.

 

[Exeggutive]

This guy is suspect on po right now. Most of his hard counters are limited to garchomp, bulky ghosts and for the most part they are pretty unreliable since most of them are either mega gengar bait (ya ik you can't have both, but you're either weak to kanga or that. both are broken as hell) or they are beat by talonflame or something.

Scrappy is also super good for this guy. Return does a ton to trev and gengar. It can pup aegislash switch ins too.

I think his move pool is extremely over looked for the most part. even though he has severe 4mss you can beat everything with fire punch , pup, return and sucker punch except niche shit like helmet chomp

 

[Shurtugal]

I agree completely with Exeggutive and I think many players from Pre-Pokebank are overlooking Kangs since "it's a new Pokemon, unlike Deo-N and Blaziken" or that it doesn't deserve a quick ban, but a suspect in the (far) future. I feel there is a ton of evidence presented at the moment to give Kangs a quick ban, but that's just me. I hope the users who think it should get suspected later should reconsider their position on this. If some people still feel we shouldn't jump into a quick ban, I would hope they would present evidence on why we should have to wait.

Also, I don't know what Smogon is doing with Pre-Pokebank vs. Pokebank, but I think it's retarded to not do QC for both Pre-Pokebank and Pokebank as well as doing bans for Pre-Pokebank and Pokebank since, atm, they are seperate tiers, and both should be getting equal attention (Pokebank moreso imo, but it's clear that most of the moderators do not share this opinion).

Also, I came here originally to say if you guys are going to run Bulky RH Garchomp, run at least 307 speed so you outrun Excadrill and Lucario before it MegaEvolves (which is useful since speed tiers don't get boosted until the following turn; I had a Lucario OHKO me with Aura sphere because I couldn't jump 306 it was embarassing).

 

[Kyreth]

As noted, Mega-K suffers badly when it ends up getting lured into a contact move and the opponent swaps into something that'll punish it severely. Ferrothorn w/Helmet is like making it stick it's face in a belt sander as far as health loss goes (or anything with Rough Skin/Iron Barbs). PuP is a frequent set-up move with good odds on predicting, so just let it slam it's fists into trouble and you'll do the rest.

 

[shack]

Double. Fire. Punch. It does a lot of damage when your not Will-O-Wisp'd.

PuP > Drain Punch. Sure, you heal, but Kangaskhan's amazing as heck bulk makes you not need it. Plus, a 2x Attack Boost will help against Conkelderp, Lucario, and Scrafty.

That's true Fire Punch might be a good option. But I still wouldn't leave her in against most fighting types because it's too risky when I already have answers on my team for them.

So you guys really don't like Fake Out? I feel like a lot of wins I get his from a revenge fake out or fake out weakening them enough for the next hit to KO

As noted, Mega-K suffers badly when it ends up getting lured into a contact move and the opponent swaps into something that'll punish it severely. Ferrothorn w/Helmet is like making it stick it's face in a belt sander as far as health loss goes (or anything with Rough Skin/Iron Barbs). PuP is a frequent set-up move with good odds on predicting, so just let it slam it's fists into trouble and you'll do the rest.

That's why you take a peak at the team before the match starts. If there's Ghosts or Ferrothorn on their team, get ready to bait them in and switch out on the turn they think you will attack.

 

[ryan]

There's been a lot of one-liner "holy shit this thing is so broken ban it" crap in this thread. Just one page ago:

Rocky Helmet bulky Garchomp was viable way before Mega Kangaskhan existed and a very good SR setter in BW2.

No more talk about banning Mega Kangaskhan.

Yes, one page later, this still stands. I get that you think it's broken, but whining about it won't speed up the process.

 

[The Great Gastly]

Kind of a one-time deal, but Air Balloon Aegislash walls her hard unless she has Fire Punch. Power-Up Punch, Normal-STAB, EQ are all ineffective, and since Sucker Punch requires Aegislash to attack, you can set-up while all she can do is switch or hopelessly spam Sucker Punch until you decide to attack. :]