Pokémon Garchomp

[Direwolf12]

Magnezone not only resists fairy, but is immune to t-wave and resists air slash. With a scarf, Mag can switch into nasty plot, outspeed and OHKO with Tbolt. Magnezone should be scarfed imo to be able to check (mega) Lucario and outspeed all Scizor variants. Coupled with the fact that offensive nasty plot + LO isn't the most common Togekiss build, I can safely say CS Magnezone is a fine Togekiss counter.

Togekiss can easily OHKO/2KO all Magnezone sets with Fire Blast WITHOUT a Nasty Plot boost or SR same with Aura Sphere. Yo can easily swap Nasty Plot with Roost and Air Slash for Dazzling Gleam... I think

Dazzling Gleam
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Aura Sphere
Roost/Nasty Plot

Would be a good set since paraflinch got nerfed Magnezone should be wary of switching into Togekiss for fear of Fire Blast/Aura Sphere

Also if your facing a Totemic with a 176HP/80SpA/252Spe with a +2 SpA will out speed Magnezone and both Fire Blast and Aura Sphere WILL OKHO Magnezone

 

[CWW]

You misunderstood me. I'm saying SCARFED Magnezone is a good counter/check.

 

[Rukaisho]

Is Iron Head or Poison Jab worth using on sets over Stone Edge (for both normal and Megachomp), and if so, which of the two is recommended? I know PJ will hit Azuzu SE while Iron Head doesn't, but I think IH gets better neutral coverage on most things.

I think it really depends on your team composition. If you have something to deal with Azumarill effectively or have a way to trigger sandstorm, go with Iron Head. If you have neither, then I'd pick Poison jab.

 

[Banryu]

I think it really depends on your team composition. If you have something to deal with Azumarill effectively or have a way to trigger sandstorm, go with Iron Head. If you have neither, than I'd pick Poison jab.

In other words, Iron Head is best for Megachomp (Sand Force boosting Steel moves was something I forgot about at the time I asked), and Poison Jab is probably better on most other Chomp sets that want to deal with Fairies.

I guess now the question is whether IH/PJ is worth running over Stone Edge on any given variation of Garchomp.
Iron Head seems like a nice alternative to Stone Edge for dealing with Togekiss if you're worried about SE's accuracy.

 

[RockStarFish]

In other words, Iron Head is best for Megachomp (Sand Force boosting Steel moves was something I forgot about at the time I asked), and Poison Jab is probably better on most other Chomp sets that want to deal with Fairies.

I guess now the question is whether IH/PJ is worth running over Stone Edge on any given variation of Garchomp.
Iron Head seems like a nice alternative to Stone Edge for dealing with Togekiss if you're worried about SE's accuracy.

Here's the list of relevant Fairy-types where PJ/IH makes enough of a difference over Garchomp's usual Dragon + EdgeQuake:

- Whimsicott (320BP Poison Jab vs. 100BP Stone Edge).
- That's it. Just Whimsicott.

Every other Fairy-type in the game is only hit 1/15th harder by PJ/IH than by STAB Earthquake (which doesn't secure any notable 2HKO -> 1HKOs), or is outright hit harder by STAB Earthquake. Unless you're Togekiss, in which case you're hit harder by Stone Edge anyways.

And against Togekiss, who's a massive threat to Chomp because of its dual immunity and SE STAB, you really need Stone Edge's extra power.

 

[Rukaisho]

Here's the list of relevant Fairy-types where PJ/IH makes enough of a difference over Garchomp's usual Dragon + EdgeQuake:

- Whimsicott (320BP Poison Jab vs. 100BP Stone Edge).
- That's it. Just Whimsicott.

Every other Fairy-type in the game is only hit 1/15th harder by PJ/IH than by STAB Earthquake (which doesn't secure any notable 2HKO -> 1HKOs), or is outright hit harder by STAB Earthquake. Unless you're Togekiss, in which case you're hit harder by Stone Edge anyways.

And against Togekiss, who's a massive threat to Chomp because of its dual immunity and SE STAB, you really need Stone Edge's extra power.

A lot of people forget to factor in Stone Edge's 20% chance to miss. You can either choose one of the 100% accuracy moves to do lower yet consistent damage, or choose a stronger move that has a 1 in 5 chance of not doing any damage at all.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

For the majority of it's Sets, Garchomp has more than enough room for Iron Head/Poison Jab on top of it's Dragon+EarthEdge Combo, so I don't see what the debate here is about. If anyone could explain, that would be nice, because as I see it at the point of writing this message, it really doesn't matter, (unless you wanna get fancy and run Sleep Talk or something).

 

[RockStarFish]

A lot of people forget to factor in Stone Edge's 20% chance to miss. You can either choose one of the 100% accuracy moves to do lower yet consistent damage, or choose a stronger move that has a 1 in 5 chance of not doing any damage at all.

VS Specially Defensive/Paraflinch/Defensive Nasty Plot Togekiss:
252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 182-216 (48.79 - 57.9%) -- 56.64% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 228-270 (61.12 - 72.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 364-430 (97.58 - 115.28%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 454-536 (121.71 - 143.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS Offensive Nasty Plot Togekiss:
252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 182-216 (51.26 - 60.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 228-270 (64.22 - 76.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

VS Physically Defensive Togekiss:
252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Togekiss: 136-160 (36.46 - 42.89%) -- 97.56% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Togekiss: 168-198 (45.04 - 53.08%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Togekiss: 268-316 (71.84 - 84.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Togekiss: 334-394 (89.54 - 105.63%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

So in retrospect I'd say it's actually about even when it comes to Togekiss. Stone Edge's annoying 20% miss rate is partly offset by the increased critical hit chance scoring some OHKOs, such as against Nasty Plot variants (which are the sets most likely to threaten Garchomp).

That being said, Iron Head's 30% flinch rate can turn any 2HKO into an OHKO in a pinch, still gets a boost from Sand Force if you go Mega, and covers all Fairies bar Azumarill when combined with Earthquake's coverage.

I guess it depends on which move type your team needs most. If you're already running an offensive Steel-type (such as Aegislash or M-Mawile), go with Stone Edge to cover threats like Moltres, Charizard and Rotom-Heat. If you're looking to run Garchomp as a sweeper, Iron Head looks like it does the better job of removing Fairy-types wanting to stop your sweep.

 

[Tathens]

Is Iron Head or Poison Jab worth using on sets over Stone Edge (for both normal and Megachomp), and if so, which of the two is recommended? I know PJ will hit Azuzu SE while Iron Head doesn't, but I think IH gets better neutral coverage on most things.

I run this set:

Garchomp Lum Berry
Jolly - Rough Skin
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Iron Head

Basically swords dance predicting a status inflicting move (ex/ WoW from Rotom) and sweep.

I'm going to run Poison Jab instead of Iron Head because I have trouble with Azumarill, but Iron Head is still a viable move on him if Azumarill is not present

 

[KYZ3N]

I run this set:

Garchomp Lum Berry
Jolly - Rough Skin
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Iron Head

I run with this same set minus Rough Skin. But I'm starting to wonder if setup sweepers are dying in this gen's meta? I'm having a lower success rate setting up than I did last gen. Maybe ditching SD for more coverage and scarfing is the better way to go?

 

[Banryu]

I run with this same set minus Rough Skin. But I'm starting to wonder if setup sweepers are dying in this gen's meta? I'm having a lower success rate setting up than I did last gen. Maybe ditching SD for more coverage and scarfing is the better way to go?

Scarfing with all the fairies running around I think is almost certainly not the way to go. It was easy enough for Steels like Ferrothorn and Forretress to switch into Chomp's outrage and ruin his day, and Fairies can do that and revenge Chomp basically Scot-free.

Your comment about setup sweepers makes me think that wallbreaking Megachomp is all the more viable an option, though.

 

[McGrrr]

Choice Band/Scarf Garchomp lost out somewhat in the transition. Now both of its STAB typings are potential liabilities.

Obviously, these sets are still viable, simply because Garchomp is that good.

 

[GoliathGarchomp]

So been testing this guy out more and I have to say, he is way better than I expected. I'm using him in conjunction with Sticky Web and it seems to be so deadly, I mean he can nearly 60%+ to the whole OU tier, especially when Sandstorm is up. Here's the set I've been running so far.


Garchomp Garchompite
Naughty - Rough Skin > Sand Force
224Atk/156Sp.Atk/128Speed
Draco Meteor
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Stone Edge


This set in conjunction with Stick Web and Sand Stream can wreck complete teams. So far I'm still working on the EV spread. ATM I'm running 224 Attack to hit hard from his highest attacking stat. 128 Speed is just enough speed to outspeed Greninja after Stick Web, who is everywhere atm. I'm thinking about rising the speed stat to 160 so I can outspeed max speed Adamant Dnite, which seems like it would have it's merits although my strategy for dealing with Dnite as it stands now is not to mega evolve until the turn I attack him. The rest I just dumped into Special Attack to hit with Draco harder. This will probably change once I figure out exactly how much S.Atk is needed to net important 2hit Ko's and then I can dump the rest into HP to give MChomp some extra bulk.

 

[EpixAura]

I'm really curious about what EVs people are running for speed. Even if you fully invest in speed, most of the Pokemon you can outspeed that you couldn't outspeed with no investment are pretty trivial.
172 speed looks convenient, allowing you to outspeed fully invested Jolly Breloom (and max speed Politoed for the handful of people who still use it), as well as Adamant Dnite. However, I don't see the point of any investment beyond that. Maybe 4 more EVs to outspeed 220 EV Rotom-W? It's hard to consistently know Rotom's set and investment this early in the generation with people experimenting with different sets, though, and most don't run 220 EVs in speed now, anyway.

With the exception of that, though, I don't really see a point of any investment whatsoever, although I'm probably overlooking some things. What exactly are the threats that investment actually lets me outspeed?

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I'm really curious about what EVs people are running for speed. Even if you fully invest in speed, most of the Pokemon you can outspeed that you couldn't outspeed with no investment are pretty trivial.
172 speed looks convenient, allowing you to outspeed fully invested Jolly Breloom (and max speed Politoed for the handful of people who still use it), as well as Adamant Dnite. However, I don't see the point of any investment beyond that. Maybe 4 more EVs to outspeed 220 EV Rotom-W? It's hard to consistently know Rotom's set and investment this early in the generation with people experimenting with different sets, though, and most don't run 220 EVs in speed now, anyway.

With the exception of that, though, I don't really see a point of any investment whatsoever, although I'm probably overlooking some things. What exactly are the threats that investment actually lets me outspeed?

I run 220 evs to outspeed timid heatran who could ko a weakened mega chomp with dragon pulse/hp ice but really its all up to you. Jolly breloom is definitely the minimum you should be aiming for at the very least.

 

[Boondocker]

I run 220 evs to outspeed timid heatran who could ko a weakened mega chomp with dragon pulse/hp ice but really its all up to you. Jolly breloom is definitely the minimum you should be aiming for at the very least.

Why? I dont find Breloom to be that much of a threat anymore with the powder nerf and whatnot. Heatran is also easy to outright wall, so switching out of him is not the end of the world. Most Heatran wont switch on a Chomp anyways. Honestly I would go even lower then that, but its preference i guess.

 

[SJCrew]

The enemy of all physical attackers this gen is Will-o-Wisp. There are so many damned burns flying around this gen, and the Wisp don't miss like it used to. If you want to go SD Chomp, go Lum. You will get a 2HKO on tanks that will normally opt to burn you for every missed KO, and Scald-reliant bulky Water types are prime setup bait (though with Drizzle being what it is now, there aren't as many of them as there were last gen, thank God!). Garchomp is still a very good wall breaker this gen, and he was on one of my very first 6th gen teams before I moved on to try other things. Garchomp will remain a top 30 Pokemon at his worst.

SD Lum w/DClaw, Stone Edge, and EQ should be standard, I think. Hasn't changed much from past gen sets, but it is more mindful of the current metagame than ol' Yache or Life Orb.

 

[Reikai]

The enemy of all physical attackers this gen is Will-o-Wisp. There are so many damned burns flying around this gen, and the Wisp don't miss like it used to. If you want to go SD Chomp, go Lum. You will get a 2HKO on tanks that will normally opt to burn you for every missed KO, and Scald-reliant bulky Water types are prime setup bait (though with Drizzle being what it is now, there aren't as many of them as there were last gen, thank God!). Garchomp is still a very good wall breaker this gen, and he was on one of my very first 6th gen teams before I moved on to try other things. Garchomp will remain a top 30 Pokemon at his worst.

SD Lum w/DClaw, Stone Edge, and EQ should be standard, I think. Hasn't changed much from past gen sets, but it is more mindful of the current metagame than ol' Yache or Life Orb.

I agree completely.

I don't think CB/CScarf should be used on Chomp anymore either. He has too many things that can just get a free switch and setup on it that I really don't think its worth running anymore.

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

Would a hybrid of a Rocks lead and Mega-Garchomp be viable for hyper-offensive?

Something like:
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin ===> Sand Force
EV's: 252 Atk, 4 SAtk, 252 Spd
Nature: Hasty (+Spd, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw/Outrage

Depending on Team Preview, you can choose whether or not to lead with this guy. If you do, set Rocks first turn without Mega-Evolving, retaining your high Speed for the next turn. Then, Mega-Evolve and pick the appropriate move to smash through your opponent - or, don't Mega-Evolve and do the same.

 

[NoahStar]

I have an Adamant Garchomp but I really want to use MChomp. Back in Gen 5 and Gen 4, I would always run Fire Blast for Skarmory, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn.

My current set is Garchomp @Garchompite
Adamant 252 Atk/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
~Dragon Claw
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~-----------

I can't decide what to use for the 4th move. Should I go Fire Blast, Fire Fang, or something like Swords Dance (kinda redundant on my team) or Sub?

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I have an Adamant Garchomp but I really want to use MChomp. Back in Gen 5 and Gen 4, I would always run Fire Blast for Skarmory, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn.

My current set is Garchomp @Garchompite
Adamant 252 Atk/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
~Dragon Claw
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~-----------

I can't decide what to use for the 4th move. Should I go Fire Blast, Fire Fang, or something like Swords Dance (kinda redundant on my team) or Sub?

If youre not using a mixed set then regular Chomp is much better as it is faster and can use items to surprise its checks (yache berry, haban berry, focus sash, rocky helmet). Mega Chomp only claim to fame is as a superior chain chomp, since it doesnt take life orb recoil and boasts similar power. But for anything else youre better off with the regular form.

 

[wdistance]

What does Jolly outspread that Adamant does not? Does this cause you to miss some OHKOs?

 

[DexSeifer]

NonMegaGarchomp needs to be Jolly, almost always... maybe if you are running a ChoiceScarf variant, then Adamant can be useful, besides that Jolly nature is a must.

 

[jle1076]

He asked why lol like what REASONS are there to run jolly.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Jolly garchomp outspeeds positive natured landorus, thundurus-t, volcarona, genesect and the kyurems. Theres also less common stuff like salamence, hydreigon, victini, darmanitan and haxorus who you might see once in awhile.