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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
Relic Shield is so ridiculous I bet literally everybody can be a "support" now where by support I mean they'll just be able to build their typical solo lane builds anyway and every "traditional" babysitter healbot support got gutted except nami so why bother (unless you're playing nami)
The upgrades aren't really a problem, it's just the Relic Shield. It's worth roughly 10 gold/10s, which is utterly ridiculous compared to anything else we've ever had in the game before and for a fraction of the cost. Season 1 gold items, 5gp10 for ~800g. S3 Philo 5gp10 for 700g, Sightstone 8.33 (two wards down) for 950g. Only Sightstone even comes close and Relic Shield is barely one-third the price. Hell, with Wealth you can still start two wards alongside it not to mention them fancy new trinkets we got. It even offers the best sustain of the three gold items.
Who the fuck.
Ancient Coin is only worth 4gp10, Spellthief's Edge 2-6gp10. Targon's Brace is a pitiful upgrade and Coin/Pick 2.0 catch up on the second level, as the former more than doubles its gold income (+6) and the latter doubles exactly (+2-6), but it's too late by then, Mr. Relic buyer already bought his Sightstone three minutes ago and is well on his way toward that Aegis or NLR or whatever. Face of the Mountain seems decent but it's inconsequential to the fact.
Well, since I'm talking about the changes now might as well keep going, no?
Is it just me or did the Pick end item kinda get the shaft compared to the other two? FotM is a little too different to compare directly but Frost Queen's Claim just seems flat-out inferior to Talisman of Ascension. Perhaps I underestimate its targetted slow but Talisman is a known quantity (Shurelya's AoE sprint) and I'm inclined to believe it's the better active, plus Claim has the worst stat spread on it (least cost-efficient, no CDR).
That said, Pick 2.0 is not at all a waste for ye ol' solo AP laners either. The Pickpocket passive largely being defunct is regretful and it no longer builds into anything useful (WotA, Morellonomicon) but it's still a Kage's Lucky Pick with decent mana regen attached. Still much better than Avarice Blade's 10% crit if you wanna go old-school and rock a gold item in lane just for the lategame boost. :P Might actually be super legit on some hard pushers if you can clear fast enough to give yourself ~20 seconds between waves and autoattack harass for the Tribute gold in addition.
And where Sightstone was usually worth rushing in favor of getting your other gold item first, if at all, it no longer is. The gold items start you off with some income boost (Ruby Crystal doesn't) and their upgrades, where they all surpass Sightstone in effective gold generation, cost less. I'm also not sure it's even worth the upgrade to Ruby anymore. You no longer get to place an extra ward with Ruby SS, now that the cap on regular SS was removed in favor of letting the per-player limit restrict you, so you're just paying for an extra charge in the bank and the second Crystal stapled to it. Doesn't seem so great to me.
How about new masteries? ...I'm not going to do that at the moment, though I know what I need to say. I don't feel like making this post ginormous right now. also jesus fuck 10k posts
The upgrades aren't really a problem, it's just the Relic Shield. It's worth roughly 10 gold/10s, which is utterly ridiculous compared to anything else we've ever had in the game before and for a fraction of the cost. Season 1 gold items, 5gp10 for ~800g. S3 Philo 5gp10 for 700g, Sightstone 8.33 (two wards down) for 950g. Only Sightstone even comes close and Relic Shield is barely one-third the price. Hell, with Wealth you can still start two wards alongside it not to mention them fancy new trinkets we got. It even offers the best sustain of the three gold items.
Ancient Coin is only worth 4gp10, Spellthief's Edge 2-6gp10. Targon's Brace is a pitiful upgrade and Coin/Pick 2.0 catch up on the second level, as the former more than doubles its gold income (+6) and the latter doubles exactly (+2-6), but it's too late by then, Mr. Relic buyer already bought his Sightstone three minutes ago and is well on his way toward that Aegis or NLR or whatever. Face of the Mountain seems decent but it's inconsequential to the fact.
Well, since I'm talking about the changes now might as well keep going, no?
Is it just me or did the Pick end item kinda get the shaft compared to the other two? FotM is a little too different to compare directly but Frost Queen's Claim just seems flat-out inferior to Talisman of Ascension. Perhaps I underestimate its targetted slow but Talisman is a known quantity (Shurelya's AoE sprint) and I'm inclined to believe it's the better active, plus Claim has the worst stat spread on it (least cost-efficient, no CDR).
That said, Pick 2.0 is not at all a waste for ye ol' solo AP laners either. The Pickpocket passive largely being defunct is regretful and it no longer builds into anything useful (WotA, Morellonomicon) but it's still a Kage's Lucky Pick with decent mana regen attached. Still much better than Avarice Blade's 10% crit if you wanna go old-school and rock a gold item in lane just for the lategame boost. :P Might actually be super legit on some hard pushers if you can clear fast enough to give yourself ~20 seconds between waves and autoattack harass for the Tribute gold in addition.
And where Sightstone was usually worth rushing in favor of getting your other gold item first, if at all, it no longer is. The gold items start you off with some income boost (Ruby Crystal doesn't) and their upgrades, where they all surpass Sightstone in effective gold generation, cost less. I'm also not sure it's even worth the upgrade to Ruby anymore. You no longer get to place an extra ward with Ruby SS, now that the cap on regular SS was removed in favor of letting the per-player limit restrict you, so you're just paying for an extra charge in the bank and the second Crystal stapled to it. Doesn't seem so great to me.
How about new masteries? ...I'm not going to do that at the moment, though I know what I need to say. I don't feel like making this post ginormous right now. also jesus fuck 10k posts
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in terms of new masteries the defensive tree seems absolutely overwhelming compared to the two others
the only argument that even comes close is the insanely powerful hybrid penetration mastery in the offense tree but it takes quite a bit of investment to get there
as it is right now a lot of tanky top laners are better off going 0/30/0 as opposed to 9/21/0 or 0/21/9
nasus in particular can go 0/30/0, never die in lane, and become unstoppable late-game
the only argument that even comes close is the insanely powerful hybrid penetration mastery in the offense tree but it takes quite a bit of investment to get there
as it is right now a lot of tanky top laners are better off going 0/30/0 as opposed to 9/21/0 or 0/21/9
nasus in particular can go 0/30/0, never die in lane, and become unstoppable late-game
god bless this game
I hate change in general (So much i used to get anxiety attacks as a kid when lots of stuff got moved around in my house) but i HATE this preseason. the new targon thing is absolutely retarded, and the support becoming a second ap carry is even more retarded. i just played a game against 0/30/0 renekton and nasus w/ soraka and we couldnt even dent them without getting healed for 1k, they also did the exact opposite of what they wanted to do with the jungle. (if you even jungle because right now 2-1-2 is 100000x better) if youre a sustained dps jungle champ just do white and leave golems for top/bot and if youre a support jungle leave white for bot/top. riot pls bring back league of cleavers, at least that was fun and you could actually beat it
Offense seems like the winner to me, it got nerfed less than Defense/Utility. It feels to me like Riot tried to reign in the impact masteries have in the game, they're relatively minor now more akin to runes. The trees feel more balanced to me finally, rather than having Defense be blatantly superior to Offense.
The %pen mastery rolling magic and physical together isn't as strong as it looks at first. It's down to a piddly 2% per point, which at most mitigation values is worth slightly more than 1% damage per point. It's decent but not actually impressive by any means. You get about that much out of Executioner and everything else is standard fare. Havoc is good to end the tree though.
That's where the other two trees leave me feeling slighted. Tenacity's good but it's situational, not every enemy team composition requires it plus it's simply underwhelming compared to ye ol' S2 where I got both tenacity and health. :[ Wanderer... out of combat movespeed as a 21-pointer? We went from a universal MS ultimate to an out-of-combat one, reeeeeeeeally? Havoc's the same as we always had to end Offense but it looks better now than Defense/Utility have shitty 21-pointers. I mean, tenacity's good but the value either needs to be higher or it needs a more universally useful stat attached (say, HP or damage reduction like usual) to appeal on an every-game basis.
Defense is okay but it's probably a good thing it's no longer plainly better than Offense and now there's an actual choice to be made. Enchanted Armor is strong, Oppression + Juggernaut are nuts but all the good stuff is at the start there. The six points between there and Tenacious is hard to swallow for the reward of a situational, weak if not functional 21-pointer. Hardiness/Resistance are meh and their one-point finishers are both questionable: Reinforced Armor is only good lategame against a well-itemized standard marksman, Evasive is rarely worth it. (They couldn't have at least made it all AoE?) Perseverance + Second Wind are garbage and what the hell is up with Runic Shield?
But on second inspection, Utility probably isn't as bad as I originally thought. The universal MS is at the start of the tree now, so other than Awareness being missed by some champs (like my Morgana who hardly needs Vampirism's spell vamp) it's largely the same as S3 Utility for nonsupports. You get a little less MS in combat but much more out of combat good for junglers, supports, and mid laners who emphasize roaming/ganking over farming. Intelligence, always good, rolls in last season's Artificer for good measure (DFG, BotRK, Zhonya's)... Not sure why the melee version of Bandit is completely worthless but whatever.
The %pen mastery rolling magic and physical together isn't as strong as it looks at first. It's down to a piddly 2% per point, which at most mitigation values is worth slightly more than 1% damage per point. It's decent but not actually impressive by any means. You get about that much out of Executioner and everything else is standard fare. Havoc is good to end the tree though.
That's where the other two trees leave me feeling slighted. Tenacity's good but it's situational, not every enemy team composition requires it plus it's simply underwhelming compared to ye ol' S2 where I got both tenacity and health. :[ Wanderer... out of combat movespeed as a 21-pointer? We went from a universal MS ultimate to an out-of-combat one, reeeeeeeeally? Havoc's the same as we always had to end Offense but it looks better now than Defense/Utility have shitty 21-pointers. I mean, tenacity's good but the value either needs to be higher or it needs a more universally useful stat attached (say, HP or damage reduction like usual) to appeal on an every-game basis.
Defense is okay but it's probably a good thing it's no longer plainly better than Offense and now there's an actual choice to be made. Enchanted Armor is strong, Oppression + Juggernaut are nuts but all the good stuff is at the start there. The six points between there and Tenacious is hard to swallow for the reward of a situational, weak if not functional 21-pointer. Hardiness/Resistance are meh and their one-point finishers are both questionable: Reinforced Armor is only good lategame against a well-itemized standard marksman, Evasive is rarely worth it. (They couldn't have at least made it all AoE?) Perseverance + Second Wind are garbage and what the hell is up with Runic Shield?
But on second inspection, Utility probably isn't as bad as I originally thought. The universal MS is at the start of the tree now, so other than Awareness being missed by some champs (like my Morgana who hardly needs Vampirism's spell vamp) it's largely the same as S3 Utility for nonsupports. You get a little less MS in combat but much more out of combat good for junglers, supports, and mid laners who emphasize roaming/ganking over farming. Intelligence, always good, rolls in last season's Artificer for good measure (DFG, BotRK, Zhonya's)... Not sure why the melee version of Bandit is completely worthless but whatever.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1r57dz/perseverance_amazing_hidden_op_maths_inside/
Fine, it's a Reddit post, but that seems pretty solid. Am I missing something here with Perserverance?
Fine, it's a Reddit post, but that seems pretty solid. Am I missing something here with Perserverance?
**** these vision changes, feels like a different game. I like the baron buff changes though.
The math is presumably correct but he did a good job making it sound better than it is. Also remember to divide by three to derive the benefit per mastery point spent.
Health regen is most valuable through early laning phase. e.g. Level 3 Darius has 705 base health. If he's at 80% HP, that offers 1.41 HP5 worth about 50g. The more health you're missing the better it is, of course, but there is a point you're too low to safely stay in lane and will simply recall to heal/buy and render the mastery useless. Conversely, it's worthless as you approach full health thus it's important to stay conservative with the estimate of this mastery's benefit.
It gets stronger as your health pool rises as well, however health regen is not very good lategame except in quantities no longer obtainable for that leet tower siege sustain. RIP Force of Nature + old Warmog's >:( Even so, Veteran Scars' and the first point of Hardiness/Resistance are only worth ~30g. Maybe calling it "garbage" was a bit harsh on my part.
None of those filler points are particularly strong, though, and we only grab them as pre-requisite to advance down the tree or to their respective links. Unfortunately, Second Wind is highly questionable so it makes more sense to fill out the other junk and get their goodies instead. In other words, while Perseverance > Hardiness/Resistance it will usually be worth investing in one of the latter to open up Reinforced Armor or Evasive. (The fourth point should often go in Swiftness. Keep in mind red buff and various items grant slows, even if the enemy team has no slows built into their champion kits.) Then 5th tier opens up, you're grabbing 4/4 Tenacious and the 21-pointer.
But sure, Perseverance is alright if you don't need RI/Evasive or as points 22+.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
i'm back in america and back on NA server, add me if you want: fischerman
on a side note, i was gold 1 at 80 lp on EUW, i transfer to NA and it puts me at bronze 1. does anyone know why this happened? i know it wasn't MMR because i was going about 50/50 at high gold. it's not like bronze is an issue to climb out of but it's the fact that i have to grind my ass back to gold again that bugs me.
on a side note, i was gold 1 at 80 lp on EUW, i transfer to NA and it puts me at bronze 1. does anyone know why this happened? i know it wasn't MMR because i was going about 50/50 at high gold. it's not like bronze is an issue to climb out of but it's the fact that i have to grind my ass back to gold again that bugs me.
New revelation: The new mastery trees are actually very similar to the old ones.
OFFENSE
Overall changes:
+1% CDR, 2hp/1mp per kill, +1% damage, +4 AP
-2 AP at Lv18, -2% penetration
DEFENSE
Overall changes:
+1 (+2) autoattack block, +6 +1.5% HP, +2.5% slow reduce, +1/0.5 Armor/MR per nearby enemy champ
-1 (0) damage block, -108 HP at Lv18, -3% DR from non-CCed enemy champs
UTILITY
Overall changes:
+1.5% noncombat MS, Artificer rolled into Intelligence
-1.5% combat MS
"laugh out loud"
So Offense got marginally better, Defense stayed about the same, Utility virtually identical. Offense is a lot better for hybrids now though and Defense obligates buying Randuin's to enable Oppression.
OFFENSE
+1% CDR, 2hp/1mp per kill, +1% damage, +4 AP
-2 AP at Lv18, -2% penetration
DEFENSE
+1 (+2) autoattack block, +6 +1.5% HP, +2.5% slow reduce, +1/0.5 Armor/MR per nearby enemy champ
-1 (0) damage block, -108 HP at Lv18, -3% DR from non-CCed enemy champs
UTILITY
+1.5% noncombat MS, Artificer rolled into Intelligence
-1.5% combat MS
"laugh out loud"
So Offense got marginally better, Defense stayed about the same, Utility virtually identical. Offense is a lot better for hybrids now though and Defense obligates buying Randuin's to enable Oppression.
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VKCA
(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
was playing a game, trapped in base for quite some time, they finally kill two of us and break a tower + inhib, then back off. I ping baron and say they're probably going for it (saw lucian in upper jungle with a ward over the wall. then this mother fucker flips out at me and in caps is like sona what the hell why isn't baron pinked
like
man
even besides the fact that I would have have died if I had of attempted to go to baron pit and ward at any time in the last five minutes
it doesn't fucking matter at all if it's pinked. either they take it, and there's nothing we can do about it, or they're idiots and don't take it, and there's still nothing we can do about it. i'm so sick of people saying baron has to be pinked constantly absolutely no questions asked. Besides the fact that's unfeasible sometimes, there's other times, like in siege scenarios, where you're going to notice very abruptly if some or all of the team is suddenly not there, and there's not very many things they could be doing..
like
man
even besides the fact that I would have have died if I had of attempted to go to baron pit and ward at any time in the last five minutes
it doesn't fucking matter at all if it's pinked. either they take it, and there's nothing we can do about it, or they're idiots and don't take it, and there's still nothing we can do about it. i'm so sick of people saying baron has to be pinked constantly absolutely no questions asked. Besides the fact that's unfeasible sometimes, there's other times, like in siege scenarios, where you're going to notice very abruptly if some or all of the team is suddenly not there, and there's not very many things they could be doing..
While I agree C9 overrated as fuck and Hai still has an abysmal champion pool. I think that Fnatic vs CLG came clearly down to picks and CLG got out picked but it was clear in Game 2 when CLG had such a demanding win that they can hang with the best. It was nice to see them do so well and for the first time in a while looked like a dominant team.
Nien's performance has been cringe worthy. I dont know whats going on with him but I don't feel comfortable with him in the top lane rn. He's lost lane every single time - and TrickZ seemed uncomfortable vs Fnatic but I think he'll develop fine. Maybe not as a Shyvana, he clearly didn't have the same presence as Cyanide but we'll see. Both Liftlift and Reckless played well but I feel Reckless had a lot of the early S3 Doublelift mentality. Ditching the team to just farm and in Game 2 that was pretty clear wheras Doublelift is definitely grouping more now.
Entertaining games and hoping Gambit wins without dropping a single game.
i dunno where you're playing but it's not the NA server if nobody's banning kassadin
Bronze players usually don't. They start to around Silver.
Until then you'll see the usual Blitzcrank / Thresh / Malphite / Hecarim / yadayada. I once saw a Karthus ban and nearly put my hand through my face.
yeah they don't ban anything apart from bronzodia at those elos
idk but on oce kass is banned 95% of the time in bronze