Other Overrated, Underrated, Fitting [SURVEY RESULTS POSTED]

[Pancham]

It's weird answering some of these questions, cause you kinda have to guess the usage. I don't play often enough to see the trends of usage, other than fucking Rotom-W and Genesect being on EVERY GODDAMN TEAM, so a lot of the choices were basically "fittingly rated" by default.

Some mons, like Greninja, are used a lot, but their capabilities don't warrant that use. Others are used a lot, like the ones afforementioned, have capabilities that warrant that use. For instance, if we were to see teams full of mediocre mons all over the place, think Jolteon, Trevenant, Greninja, Charizard, Ninetails, Gastrodon, and other mons like these, the logical explanation for this is that people are "over"-rating them, and they think they're good when they're really, honestly not.

As for people saying we have no clear/reliable usage statistics, use your experience playing the ladder. You obviously see more more of one mon than another. For instance, Rotom-w, Gliscor, Azumarill, Greninja, Gengar, Kangaskhan, Trevenant, etc. are everywhere in OU beta. Many of these highly used mons don't necessarily deserve this usage. As for OU bank, we see many Genesect, Rotom-w, Heatran, Ferrothorn, etc. and we face the same story. People are using mons that were good last gen, and mons that are new to see if they are up to par. Gastrodon is a good example of a previously good OU mon, whereas Greninja, Hawlucha, and Trevenant is a good example of people using mediocre, "sub par" new mons.

 

[FlameUser64]

I'm a little iffy on Kingdra. In terms of actual potential in cartridge battles I think the Sniper-crit setup is probably pretty awesome. But the simulator doesn't reflect the changes to the crit stages, so in the current PS beta it doesn't seem like it's really all that amazing a Pokémon.

 

[LoDart210]

I had to constantly keep reminding myself "this isn't if you think the pokemon is under/over/fittingly rated, but rather, how well it plays its role"

I had to fight to change Keldeo from overrated to fittingly rated. Dude is strong. Lots of people use him. And I hate him for that.

 

[Fennekin]

Keldeo is hardly a treat in this meta, in my personal experiences.
Then again, I really like Togekiss, Mega Gardevoir, and Talonflame, none which has -any- issues handling the pony. I can see the Specs Set being a huge threat for unprepared teams, so yeah.

 

[Ranevski]

Just thought I'd suggest that if you do another one of these down the road I would really like to see an above/below 1850 divide as I feel that grossly skews the information.

People can call elitist or whatever but the reality is that when I make a new team there are so many mons used below 1850 that are clearly overrated (for instance any dragon dancer). But once you get up the ladder again these pokemon disappear from usage because your opponents know how to play. So this begs the question: "if 90% of the population are using things like DD Gyarados, and 10% are using RestTalk Gyarados, does that make Gyarados overrated or underrated?" What I would want to really say is that DD Gy is overrated by 90% of the population, but RestTalk Gy is underrated by 90% of the population.

Obviously it's not realistic to make a survey as with all the answers this in-depth, and you did a great job. I just think that some sort of "are you generally above 1850 or below 1850" question right at the start would make the final data far more useful.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Just thought I'd suggest that if you do another one of these down the road I would really like to see an above/below 1850 divide as I feel that grossly skews the information.

People can call elitist or whatever but the reality is that when I make a new team there are so many mons used below 1850 that are clearly overrated (for instance any dragon dancer). But once you get up the ladder again these pokemon disappear from usage because your opponents know how to play. So this begs the question: "if 90% of the population are using things like DD Gyarados, and 10% are using RestTalk Gyarados, does that make Gyarados overrated or underrated?" What I would want to really say is that DD Gy is overrated by 90% of the population, but RestTalk Gy is underrated by 90% of the population.

Obviously it's not realistic to make a survey as with all the answers this in-depth, and you did a great job. I just think that some sort of "are you generally above 1850 or below 1850" question right at the start would make the final data far more useful.

Yeah. You just have to look at the >1850 usage statistics vs. the global usage statistics to know that there is going to be major confounding if you don't take that into account.

 

[Ryolain]

If nothing else, I think the tiers just need to be renamed. Those of us who've been playing for years probably don't think about the names "overused" and "underused" anymore, but they're hard for newcomers to not view as "overrated" and "underrated" - something that I'd say comes up in this survey given that it's all about whether you think something's use correlates to its actual viability.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Adding an 1850 demographic question could definitely be useful. Actual more demographic questions can only make data more useful. If there are any other demographic questions you'd like to see, let me know. Every demographic question let's us look at people in just those specific categories btw.

1850 question will need a grain of salt though, since I think more people will lie about that compared to things like tournament participation

 

[Psylink]

Adding an 1850 demographic question could definitely be useful. Actual more demographic questions can only make data more useful. If there are any other demographic questions you'd like to see, let me know. Every demographic question let's us look at people in just those specific categories btw.

1850 question will need a grain of salt though, since I think more people will lie about that compared to things like tournament participation

Considering our new amounts of users that registered post XY release, make that an entire can.

 

[Aldrius]

Alright, so with the second section of Megas, I am aware that it wants to refer to Megas, but is it solely the Megas that we are to rate, or the Pokemon as a whole? Considering that several of these Pokemon were already OU before their Mega formes were revealed, or play completely differently, I feel that it's worth mentioning.

I think it's best to look at it this way. Say Meloetta was released. And for years everyone was just using Meloetta as a Meloetta. Suddenly, they release Relic Song for Meloetta. Meloetta is hugely improved by this because now it has access to it's Pirouette Form. But that doesn't mean Meloetta has stopped being Meloetta. It just means it has a new powerful option to consider in it's already powerful repitoire.

That's what Mega Evolutions are, a new option. For some pokemon's potential in OU (like Ampharos) it's only option, but still an option. They improve the existing pokemon, they don't introduce a new one.

That's how I looked it at it when answering those questions anyway.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Alright guys, so I closed the survey after about a week (been busy, sorry all!). Anyway, while I wasn't paying attention, we got 1629 responses (damn...).

This makes the data incredibly stable imo, and I believe to be representative of community opinion (at large).

Anyway,

Here are the raw results:

https://qtrial.qualtrics.com/CP/Report.php?RP=RP_eM6oMueAbTnPdSB


Only Former Suspect Voters:

https://qtrial.qualtrics.com/CP/Report.php?RP=RP_9nyMINUl6cXBOm1

Only Players who consider themselves "Tournament Players":

https://qtrial.qualtrics.com/CP/Report.php?RP=RP_9AXPUkCFW2zFppb

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Thanks for this, Chou Toshio and anyone else involved! Really interesting stuff.

Question 59 regarding Kyurem-B makes me particularly happy, that thing is underrated as all heck at the moment. It was a monster last gen and it's still a monster this gen.

Question 64 regarding Smeargle is also a good indicator of what its useage is going to trend towards once the metagame settles down a bit.

Question 74. Wow, not my experience at all on the ladder.

 

[sidakarya]

Thanks for the survey. Very interesting.

I think, most of the former Ubers were in general underrated. Especially Genesect (who was used far too little early last month) and the genies.

I could understand 47 (people hype up Bellyjet too much imo), but 48 surprised me. I actually thought more people would find Togekiss overrated, seeing as how a lot of things can counter it. Paraflinch really is devilish.

53: Scolipede is really good right now. I do think it's a bit underrated.

59 was exactly what I was thinking. Kyurem-B is monstrous and severely underrated at the moment. It received nothing at all for nerfs, unlike other dragons.

64 and 65 to me indicate, how suicide leads are starting to be seen as somewhat outdated. Entry hazards are easier than ever to remove nowadays. Sticky Web might not really be that game-changing, more of a niche move on which whole teams are based.

Considering this survey was in the time of Mega Gengar, 74 was really unexpected. I don't think I've seen anything other than SUPER-AGGRO HYPER-OFFENCE (including my own team!) Hopefully in the coming months will this trend resemble more, what the survey says.

 

[Ryolain]

I could understand 47 (people hype up Bellyjet too much imo), but 48 surprised me. I actually thought more people would find Togekiss overrated, seeing as how a lot of things can counter it. Paraflinch really is devilish.

She's pretty diverse, and with paraflinch getting nerfed I think people are exploring other options more. She makes a decent cleric and an interesting bulky attacker now that her secondary STAB doesn't suck.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

64 and 65 to me indicate, how suicide leads are starting to be seen as somewhat outdated. Entry hazards are easier than ever to remove nowadays. Sticky Web might not really be that game-changing, more of a niche move on which whole teams are based.

The survey say that bulky offensive is most people's preferred playing style, so I assume the meta generally has players that know how to take a hit, so outspeeding certain threats is not as critical. Wasting a Pokemon for Sticky Web when facing bulky offense or stall would put one at a disadvantage since they lose a Pokemon that can be a tactical resource later on in the battle. I suppose hitting something with Spore may be worth it as a trade off though.

I think, most of the former Ubers were in general underrated. Especially Genesect (who was used far too little early last month) and the genies.

Landorus-I is most likely underrated since it a nice benchmark of immediate power with the option to boost its speed (for whatever that's worth with Mamoswine and Talonflame and Sucker Punch users around), Sludge Wave (which I think is the better "coverage" move than Psychic) can provide an answer for Fairies on the Special side, and Grass Knot can deal with bulky water and ground types although it does not get the Sheer Force bonus. However, its typing and speed (unless it gets the boost) makes it lose to Greninja Nidoking is a competitor if one wants a slower Pokemon, but has two STABs and Ice Beam. I used Thundurus-I before and the primarily reason I did not like it was its lack of power with Hidden Power Ice (max Evs, neutral nature, and no boosting item); Greninja provides more offensive presence and speed though, but Prankster Thunder Wave may be nifty. I do not see Tornadus-T being useful for similar reasons though.