Pokémon Kangaskhan

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm personally hoping that when Pokebank comes around, the rumors will be true and we won't be able to use anything but Kalos-bred mons. So, that pretty much negates the need to worry about Seismic Toss, Knock Off, and Fire Punch, which makes preparing for MKanga much easier.
This would also completely destroy the viability of a number of other Mega Evolutions, and severely limit the options available to damn near all of them. I would personally like to be able to use Substitute / Focus Punch / Play Rough / Sucker Punch Mega Mawile, or use Heal Bell on Mega Ampharos, and Ice Punch on Mega Aggron, etc.

I'd rather Mega Kanga got the boot, to be honest.
 
Given other situations in game, this seems unlikely. Lysandre's Gyarados in X&Y uses Iron Head and is able to Mega Evolve. Iron Head is currently available only from 4th or 5th gen tutors on Gyarados. It is perfectly possible that gamefreak was anticipating Gen 6 move tutors or simply made a mistake ala Barrier Dragonite, but it seems more likely that older Pokemon can still Mega Evolve. I'd say go ahead and cautiously speculate about Kangaskhan with old move tutor attacks on hand.
I never meant non-Kalos mons wouldn't be able to MEvo. My thinking was along the lines of that only Kalos-bred mons would be able to be used in tournaments or Wi-Fi. If you have a Gyarados from 5th gen, you'd be able to MEvo ingame and whatever, but you wouldn't be able to use it in the Battle Spot or in tournaments or whatever.

Regardless, this is all just speculation. I just want to be able to face MKanga without having to worry about the horribly OP things it's capable of with past gen moves.
 
You mean as in, banning non-Kalos bred mega Pokemon in competitive play? I don't get it--if the ban was all for the sake of one Pokemon, why not just ban that one Pokemon instead of crippling countless others in the process?

Still, I have to wonder what the hell was Gamefreak thinking when they made this thing... Do they have any clue whatsoever how the mechanics in their games work?
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I just posted a video all about Mega Kangaskhan, going over sets, buffs, good teammates, counters, and more! Check it out!


I have no qualms about using my 1k post to shamelessly plug my new YouTube channel. That being said I have a lot of people I want to give shout-outs to.

The first is Gary2346 who has been a great friend for a long time, and is probably my best Smogon friend. We've had a lot of fun in the past year, and I hope it continues until you leave. You're an awesome guy, a good battler, and always fun to talk to about competitive shit and irl stuff. Thanks, man!

False Sense was also one of my first friends on Smogon, and even though he doesn't post as much anymore, he is very smart and insightful. Come on skype more often! We still need to have our Wifi rematch ;)

Don Honchkrorleone is the weirdest motherfucker I've ever met, but he also has a way of making me laugh even when I'm pissed. I accept you, Don, even if you are incredibly racist (or maybe it's just the cultural barrier, I'll never know).

ShootingStarmie is a really great guy. We only started talking about 4-5 months ago, but you're still one of my better friends on here. Cocky as all hell, and yeah you're a prissy brit, but I love you anyway <3 But no, this doesn't mean I'm going to play you in chess, stop asking.

Tabuu seems to have disappeared for the most part, but he's a really good guy. You also need to get on skype buddy!

shartruce2 We only recently started talking, but you're one of the better battlers imo and really fun to talk to! Get that TC back!

So yeah, sorry for clogging the thread with this, but the video is at least relevant. I didn't know how else to use my 1k, but this will have to do.
 
I just posted a video all about Mega Kangaskhan, going over sets, buffs, good teammates, counters, and more! Check it out!


I have no qualms about using my 1k post to shamelessly plug my new YouTube channel. That being said I have a lot of people I want to give shout-outs to.

The first is Gary2346 who has been a great friend for a long time, and is probably my best Smogon friend. We've had a lot of fun in the past year, and I hope it continues until you leave. You're an awesome guy, a good battler, and always fun to talk to about competitive shit and irl stuff. Thanks, man!

False Sense was also one of my first friends on Smogon, and even though he doesn't post as much anymore, he is very smart and insightful. Come on skype more often! We still need to have our Wifi rematch ;)

Don Honchkrorleone is the weirdest motherfucker I've ever met, but he also has a way of making me laugh even when I'm pissed. I accept you, Don, even if you are incredibly racist (or maybe it's just the cultural barrier, I'll never know).

ShootingStarmie is a really great guy. We only started talking about 4-5 months ago, but you're still one of my better friends on here. Cocky as all hell, and yeah you're a prissy brit, but I love you anyway <3 But no, this doesn't mean I'm going to play you in chess, stop asking.

Tabuu seems to have disappeared for the most part, but he's a really good guy. You also need to get on skype buddy!

shartruce2 We only recently started talking, but you're one of the better battlers imo and really fun to talk to! Get that TC back!

So yeah, sorry for clogging the thread with this, but the video is at least relevant. I didn't know how else to use my 1k, but this will have to do.
You have a lot of good information in here, but this video is a bit to long for what's in it. You could say all of the relevant information here in around 10 minutes less. Less time and more concise and too the point. I mean 25 minutes is already long, but 44 minutes? Yikes. I know you said this at the end but still, a lot of people will get scared off when they see the length.

Most of this can get shaved off of the stats. Just give it an overall, cover it's overall defenses & typing, excellent-but-not-amazing attack stat, solid speed tier, and then go into Parental Bond because that's obviously what makes this mega so stupid powerful.

On the positive side, you have a good voice to narrate & make videos. Some people are hugely annoying to listen to, but not in this case. All in all good video, lots of useful information, good coverage of sets, teammates, counters, and the final point. But it just needs to be condensed a bit.
 
Last edited:

Stallion

Tree Young
is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
Sableye and Eviolite Dusknoir can take 3 Mega-crunches each, and threaten Will o Wisp. Sableye has prankster recover, but can't rely on it too much through Crunch-hax.

MKhan's weakest attack is actually Power-up Punch. A weird bulky (252 Def / 252+ Speed) Terrakion can switch into PuP, survive, take a sucker punch, and still OHKO with 0 EVed Fist Plate Close Combat. (I know... EQ means it isn't a counter). It seems a bit niche for a conditional-check however...

Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn deals at least 50% dmg to `khan before it dies, putting it within reach of Talonflame Brave Bird revenge kills.
If a max defense/speed Terrakion is honestly being discussed as an option, then there's something wrong with Mega-Kanga
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
If a max defense/speed Terrakion is honestly being discussed as an option, then there's something wrong with Mega-Kanga
I'm from the school that doesn't think Blaziken or Gengarite should be banned, but I have my doubts about Kangaskhanite. I've made two serious teams, and in both cases used a Skarmory/Gengar duo as Kanga coverage. While I've had relatively little trouble against Kanga (it's beaten me fewer than a dozen times in around 500 battles), one Pokemon shouldn't be so centralising as to demand this kind of coverage. There's also the matter of my own Kanga team, which is sitting pretty at a record of 56-7.

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 28 SDef / 12 Spd
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
 
I'm from the school that doesn't think Blaziken or Gengarite should be banned, but I have my doubts about Kangaskhanite. I've made two serious teams, and in both cases used a Skarmory/Gengar duo as Kanga coverage. While I've had relatively little trouble against Kanga (it's beaten me fewer than a dozen times in around 500 battles), one Pokemon shouldn't be so centralising as to demand this kind of coverage. There's also the matter of my own Kanga team, which is sitting pretty at a record of 56-7.
Why were you against the Blaziken and Gengarite bans, if you don't mind my asking (while also keeping this relevant to Kanga)? In my opinion, all three of them are problematic since they are all centralizing and can easily take down one critical mon on a team that can make it fall apart.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
Why were you against the Blaziken and Gengarite bans, if you don't mind my asking (while also keeping this relevant to Kanga)? In my opinion, all three of them are problematic since they are all centralizing and can easily take down one critical mon on a team that can make it fall apart.
I don't want to derail this thread. I'll simply say that Blaziken and Gengarite never posed me a significant problem. Did I consider them when team-building? Certainly, but to the extent that I have to think about Kanga? Not even close.
 
So uh, Kangaskan gets Roar and Circle Throw. Do we know how these moves are affected by Parental Bond? Because if they force switches on the new Pokemon... Yeah.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
So uh, Kangaskan gets Roar and Circle Throw. Do we know how these moves are affected by Parental Bond? Because if they force switches on the new Pokemon... Yeah.
Circle Throw will hit twice but only phaze on the second hit :( Roar isn't affected by Parental Bond because it only works on attacking moves. I had the same thought when it came out. Would have been amazing for stall teams (heck, any hazards stacking team would love it).
 
Circle Throw will hit twice but only phaze on the second hit :( Roar isn't affected by Parental Bond because it only works on attacking moves. I had the same thought when it came out. Would have been amazing for stall teams (heck, any hazards stacking team would love it).
More damage is still always a good thing, though. Kangaskhan is probably the best user of Circle Throw.
 

Molk

Godlike Usmash
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
So uh, Kangaskan gets Roar and Circle Throw. Do we know how these moves are affected by Parental Bond? Because if they force switches on the new Pokemon... Yeah.
That was tested out a little while ago, Parental Bond only works on attacking moves, so you can't double phaze with that, and Circle Throw DOES hit twice, but only phazes the opponent on the second hit, which once again prevents any double phazing shenanigans that could've happened without it. So there's no need to worry about getting double phazed to death or anything.

EDIT: Ninja'd :x
 
If a max defense/speed Terrakion is honestly being discussed as an option, then there's something wrong with Mega-Kanga
Although I fully agree with your point, that Terrakion set is just a really silly option considering any normal Terrakion set already checks MK well. No need to run weird niche sets that try to "counter" it, and poorly at that since it can't really switch into EQ more than once.

Speaking of Terrakion though, I'm finding it to be an excellent wallbreaker/check to Mega Kangaskhan in this metagame. I'm guessing people are afraid to run it because of the strong presence of Aegislash and Lando-T, but I run a life orb set with EQ and HP ice and it nearly guarantees a kill every time I get it in for free, which is especially easy to do with Genesect support. Although it's not a real counter to Mega Kangaskhan, it's excellent as insurance you won't get swept by it and basically forces 1 for 1 trades almost every time MK is brought in. Only thing to worry about is keeping it healthy enough to take a sucker punch.

Another check I use on the same team is Gengar with will-o-wisp and destiny bond. Also not a counter, but a good check that can spread burns and even live a burned crunch provided MK has no boosts. Destiny bond is always a good last resort in case my team is weak enough to where I can still be swept by a burned Mega Kangaskhan or if I just need it out of the way ASAP.

Mega Kangaskhan has a ton of viable checks, but hardly any real counters which makes it so damn hard to deal with. I find myself running 2-3 checks to it on every team I make because it's so ridiculously powerful and bulky. Even phazers such as Skarm and Hippo have problems with it, as by the time you've switched in and whirlwinded, you've already lost half of your health to a +2 return and will probably have trouble finding another opportunity to recover depending on what was phazed in.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Kangaskan is not a good presence for the metagame.

Faster Revenge Killers: Are almost all 2hko'd by +2 Sucker Punch. Even the bulkiest revenge killers such as Genesect, Landorus, and Garchomp cannot escape this fate-- even with almost full health. Substitutes tricks also are a tremendous risks because of Return.

These are bulky Pokemon-- Garchomp is statistically still in the top 10% overall bulk BST for all OU Pokemon, but it needs 70%+ health just to get in a hit on Kangaskan.

The only Pokemon with both the power and Sucker Punch resistance needed to revenge kill Kangaskan are fighting types such as Terrakion and Keldeo-- but both have no chance to switch in on Kang, and are terrible choices for Scarf users in a meta with so much super effective priority against them.

Uninvested defensive stats just don't hold up against Sucker Punch. Furthermore, none can 2HKO Kang without STAB Fighting moves.


Bulky Defensive Pokemon: Are usually out sped, and almost all 2HKOd by +2 moves. Skarmory needs full physical defense if it doesn't want to get 2HKO'd by RETURN-- how stupid is that? nvm the growing popularity of fire punch. None of them are capable of OHKO'ing Kang either since Fighting is a fairly poor typing for defensive roles in this meta.

ALL slower Pokemon have to be weary about falling into range that they can be revenge killed by Power Up Punch, because if they do, they're basically giving Kang an opportunity to end the game for free (you know, never giving Kang a chance to revenge kill a poke with PUP in a meta where Heatran and Tyranitar are almost requisits to prevent half the meta from killing your ass).



A poke that can almost OHKO every faster uninvested OU Pokemon, and 2HKO every slower invested Pokemon. Almost no top threats can OHKO it.


Kangaskan is more over powered than BW First Round Kingdra (the most broken Pokemon of all fifth gen, who at least had a hard counter in Ferothorn), and is simply terrible for the OU metagame.

(Note this post is not calling for a Kang ban, but simply stating it's terrible for the metagame)
 
More damage is still always a good thing, though. Kangaskhan is probably the best user of Circle Throw.
That doesn't make it a good one.

I find Mega Kangaskhan impossible to counter, but possible to play around. For example, I can use Klefki to cripple it with Thunder Wave and Reflect, and switch around to mons that can kill it to stop it from PuPing more. It's bulk really makes this hard though.

Kangaskhan has 4MSS however--PuP and Return are mandatory, Sucker Punch is mandatory, Earthquake is too, but you really want Crunch and Fire Punch as well. This makes it slightly easier to play around, but you still have to scout its moves first.

Kangaskhan, overall, is still very difficult to check and play around. Most of my losses are to Mega Kangaskhan teams, even.
 
4MSS is really the only reason that MKanga is able to even be possibly beaten. If it's not running one of Fire Punch/Crunch/Earthquake, it gets walled by certain mons. I've even heard of crazy sets that forego Return for more coverage, but that's just silly.
 
I have a sigilyph on my team because I really like how it works, and it's a cool kind of gimmick to work, and I've used to beat pretty much every kangaskhan that's come my way. Sigilyph is 4x resistant to fighting moves (I've mostly seen power-up-punch, drain punch, sucker punch, x), so I don't take much damage from that, and I can burn to cut Kangaskhan's attack heavily. At that point, I'm totally free to stay healthy with roost and use Cosmic Power until he either switches out, or I'm comfortable in being able to sweep with an 140+ STAB stored power. Dark pokemon will ruin my day, but I can usually still burn them and stall if I have enough defense up.
 
4MSS is really the only reason that MKanga is able to even be possibly beaten. If it's not running one of Fire Punch/Crunch/Earthquake, it gets walled by certain mons. I've even heard of crazy sets that forego Return for more coverage, but that's just silly.
Nothing really walls Crunch MKhan except Sableye, but all Sableye can do if switch in and WoW Khan. I'm seeing more and more people bring Magic bounce specifically to shut down Sableye, and if you don't have a ghost to switch into PuP, Khan just beats everything else down with raw power. If he's running crunch, Khan doesn't care and just murders them with it. Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn is the only other thing that can sort of stop Khan, but all you need is a solid Ferrothorn killer. If Khan already has PuP running, he can actually just beat Ferrothorn down (at huge cost) which is kinda horrific.

EDIT: Sigilyph switches in PuP, takes almost no damage. Khan is at +2. Next turn Khan OHKO's with crunch or return. More and more Khans are running Jolly, which completely stops all of these ideas. Heck even if Sigilyph outspeeds and burns, Khan can just Pup again and be at +4, then OHKO you anyways. Khan simply doesn't need adamant, +2 Parental Bond with max atk and spe with Jolly is enough to destroy just about everything.
 
Last edited:
That doesn't make it a good one.

I find Mega Kangaskhan impossible to counter, but possible to play around. For example, I can use Klefki to cripple it with Thunder Wave and Reflect, and switch around to mons that can kill it to stop it from PuPing more. It's bulk really makes this hard though.

Kangaskhan has 4MSS however--PuP and Return are mandatory, Sucker Punch is mandatory, Earthquake is too, but you really want Crunch and Fire Punch as well. This makes it slightly easier to play around, but you still have to scout its moves first.

Kangaskhan, overall, is still very difficult to check and play around. Most of my losses are to Mega Kangaskhan teams, even.
Actually, Kanga's 4MSS isn't that bad. PUP, Return, Sucker Punch covers most most of the meta, the real choice is in that last spot. Crunch hits Jellicent, but pretty much every other ghost is still hit pretty hard by Fire Punch. Lets look at some numbers on some of the more relevant Ghosts.

Calcs done with a 125 Attack Adamant CB Kanga to simulate Adamant Mega-Kanga
252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 226-266 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 164-194 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gengar: 129-152 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


These aren't small numbers, either. Outside of Jellicent, Sableye is the only one that stands much of a chance against FP Kanga, and if its being forced out soon after (so that it can't Recover), it won't be able to hold Kanga for very long, especially if you have some hazards up. The others are much shakier (two of them are weak to fire, so yeah), meaning that out of the OU Ghosts, Jellicent and Sableye are really the only ones stopping Kanga with Fire Punch. Meanwhile, Skarmory is weak gets owned, Ferrothorn gets owned, Aegislash has to worry about switching into it (although most Kanga players should be spamming Sucker Punch once Aegislash shows up).

Soo... Jellicent and Sableye are the only things I'm thinking can safely switch into Mega-Kanga with Fire Punch. 'Course, Jellicent gets mauled by Crunch, which is also quite viable (I do prefer Fire Punch, though), so it ends up being a bit of a guessing game as to which one it has unless you have something else that will persuade it to show you.
 
Darn, you're right! Can't counter with sigilyph, but at least a kangaskhan can't switch in on a sigilyph comfortably

EDIT: Let me update this with some content.

I noticed that Pokemon-Online has chosen to ban this, and I can understand why they did - it's tricky to switch something in that can handle it, and it takes forever to take down. There's a lot of pokemon that can slow it down or give it a hurdle, but there's not really much that can decisively take it out
 
Last edited:
Although I fully agree with your point, that Terrakion set is just a really silly option considering any normal Terrakion set already checks MK well. No need to run weird niche sets that try to "counter" it, and poorly at that since it can't really switch into EQ more than once.
Kanga's modes of operation are either:

1. Mega Power-up Punch on the switch -> +2 Mega Return / +2 Mega Sucker-Punch / +2 Earthquake. This takes out `mon as strong as Hippowdon (Return), Ferrothorn (Earthquake), and Terrakion (Sucker Punch).
2. Scrappy Power Up Punch -> +1 Mega Crunch / +1 Mega Earthquake, which KOs bulky ghosts like Trevenant, Gorgeist, Jellicent, and 252/0 Aegislash.

+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 327-387 (87.4 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 345-408 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 336-396 (103.7 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Mind you, these calcs were done with a Jolly Kanga. Don't forget the ~10% dmg from the Scrappy PuP on the switch-in, and all of these "ghost counters" are easily dead.

Which is why I only bring up these guys as "counters":

252 Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 62-74 (20.3 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 205-243 (67.4 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 153-183 (53.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


"Counter" may be the wrong word here for Eviolite Dusclops, since he switches in, takes a Crunch, gives a Will-o-Wisp and then dies.

Sableye has Prankster Will-o-Wisp, which means `Khan is only doing some ~40% dmg to it (at most) by the time it gets burned. After that, Sableye uses Prankster Recover + Burn damage to force Khan out.
 
It's interesting to me that once bans start there's always a certain domino effect wherein the previous bans expose other threats. Megablaziken and Megagengar were both Kangaskhan checks. This I why I'm always of the opinion that one should be very hesitant to ban. Or at the very least, one should not consider the metagame resulting from a previous ban to be sacrosanct. In other words, there are more ways to evolve a metagame than to ban additional Pokemon.
 
~snip~

Sableye has Prankster Will-o-Wisp, which means `Khan is only doing some ~40% dmg to it (at most) by the time it gets burned. After that, Sableye uses Prankster Recover + Burn damage to force Khan out.
What's so horrible about sableye being the one great check, is that all you need is Magic Bounce on Khans Team to poop all over Sableye. Espeon is ideal now, as it gets Dazzling gleam off a good Satk. the entire match becomes a war to keep Sableye alive, as once the Khan "checks" are down, Khan just needs to come in to revenge something/set up Pup and proceed to tear the entire metagame appart.
 
What's so horrible about sableye being the one great check, is that all you need is Magic Bounce on Khans Team to poop all over Sableye. Espeon is ideal now, as it gets Dazzling gleam off a good Satk. the entire match becomes a war to keep Sableye alive, as once the Khan "checks" are down, Khan just needs to come in to revenge something/set up Pup and proceed to tear the entire metagame appart.
However, if the Sableye user knows you have Espeon, it can just Foul Play the switchin for a lot of damage. Prediction works both ways.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top