...Carbink can take an Earthquake from Ho-Oh?!?
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Ho-Oh
- Thread starter Fireburn
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Yeah, it's just that a LO set with it will be able to overpower Carbink (a Choiced EQ definitely hurts but is easy to take advantage of) LO sets with EQ are in general rare.
I prefer a tank set with EQ over sub. For my teams, Ho-oh is an automatic switch in to Dialga, and with a lot of Dialgas being physically defensive, it will probably take you 3 sacred fires to bring him down, which leaves you with only 2 PP left. EQ solves that problem and you can still nail switch ins with either proper prediction (or just use sacred fire and hope for a burn; even Kyogre won't like that).
I find that Ho-oh really doesn't mind toxic either, meaning sub's value at blocking status isn't all that useful. Most of the time Ho-oh comes in on a special attacker, forces it out and hits the switch in hard, only to switch out next turn. With regenerator and roost, you can do this repeatedly even while toxic is ticking away.
I find that Ho-oh really doesn't mind toxic either, meaning sub's value at blocking status isn't all that useful. Most of the time Ho-oh comes in on a special attacker, forces it out and hits the switch in hard, only to switch out next turn. With regenerator and roost, you can do this repeatedly even while toxic is ticking away.
Dialga is not switching into Ho-oh.
Ho-oh's substitute is not just for blocking status. Substitute eases prediction and slow down the opponent's momentum.
You misread what I said. I switch Ho-oh into Dialga, not vice versa. And if you don't have EQ, you can't actually kill defensive Dialga without wasting almost all of your sacred fire PP.
I've noticed a lot of the threats Ho-Oh is supposed to check are all packing specific counters (Stone Edge, Thunder, Rock Slide), thus really limiting its ability to switch in. Even on a safe switch-in, Ho-Oh is usually still outsped and killed before it can do anything. I'm still relatively new to the metagame, so maybe I'm not seeing Ho-Oh's full potential yet.
Yeah, metagaming is a HUGE problem fir Ho-oh at the moment because it is the best mon in the game right now. I very rarely see a ArceusGrass without Stone Edge or a Xerneas without Rock Slide or an Aegislash without Head Smash, for example. Still, its nit like EVERY mon can afford to run a rock move, so Ho-oh still gets plenty of switches on things like Dialga (although I saw a Stone Edge Dialga the other day yiiii)
Its a problem no doubt, but one of the coolest things about ho-oh is its ability to take those random super effective moves. A full HP physically defensive ho-oh can actually eat a no-investment stone edge, given it lacks STAB, from Arceus (lol Rock Slide on Xern needs Expert Belt to have a chance to OHKO). Its enormous 106 / 156 special defenses let it do stuff like avoiding the OHKO from Palkia's STAB Surf or Hydro Pump quite easily, so the same can be said about Thunder on random mons too.
While a non-stab, non-invested Stone Edge/Rock Slide usually fails to OHKO, I've noticed Ho-Oh usually ends up killing itself from Life Orb or Brave Bird recoil anyway (expecting the opponent to switch out). And for bulkier pokes like Xerneas, Ho-Oh can't even OHKO in return before being KOed itself.
A Defog user that on its own is weak to Stealth Rock is a terrible idea. You're better off with Arceus or Giratina.
I agree on that its generally a bad idea to have Defog on a SR weak mon, however I think it has a niche in deflecting Deoxys Hyper Ofence. Its unlikely that someone will taunt your Ho-Oh and more often then not Deoxys cant touch Ho-Oh at all. And Deoxys HO rarely has something that can outspeed and OHKO Ho-Oh. Also it doesnt have such a big 4mss.
Dialga needs to start running power gem.
252+ SpA Life Orb Dialga Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 380-452 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Not really impressive considering it's still not guaranteed to ko and you really don't want your sr user to take LO damage.
The thing with Ho-Oh is, it still has uses even with SR up, it would like SR out and defog makes that easier, it can still function as a check to some special attackers and can nail switch-ins before it ends up going down.
I don't think so, Thunder on Dialga has waaaaaaaaay more coverage than Power Gem, specially on Life Orb since it nukes a lot of things and both Power Gem and Thunder 2hko Ho-Oh.
well the idea is that it is used as a lead, a suicide offense lead. If your opponent sees you carrying ho-oh, he might wanted to set SR as soon as possible.
the problem is that it is used as a surprise, making a chance that there is no SR ever even up on the field at all.
ho-oh can still roost anyway
Off topic of the thread, but that might've been me. I was bored so I was running a weird Physically Offensive Dialga. I know, Dialga is not meant for that, but boredom got me.
With Assault Vest, and not a single EV in SpD., Ho-Oh reaches 516 SpD. In top with a Base 106 HP, thats a fucking monstruosity.
The question is: "Why would you run Assault Vest Ho-Oh instead of Multiscale Lugia?" Well, the answer is: Offensive Pressure.
Every time Lugia switches into the battlefield, the worse thing you can spect from it is Toxic, Whilrwind, maybe Ice Beam or some type of passive damage. When Ho-Oh swtiches in, your next Pokémon will suffer a ridiculously powerful attack in form of Brave Bird or Sacred Fire. There aren't many Pokémon who enjoy taking those hits. Even with the lack of Life Orb, Ho-Oh has the power to cripple the opponent, and Sacred Fire is something that always matter, even if the Pokémon you are hitting resists it, there's still a 50% chance of becoming burned.
The lack of Roost is not a problem at all; Regenerator is a great ability -to say the least-, and makes things easier. BTW, C.Band sets doesn't run Roost and its performance is solid as a rock, due to this ability.
PD: Sry about my ingrish =P
The question is: "Why would you run Assault Vest Ho-Oh instead of Multiscale Lugia?" Well, the answer is: Offensive Pressure.
Every time Lugia switches into the battlefield, the worse thing you can spect from it is Toxic, Whilrwind, maybe Ice Beam or some type of passive damage. When Ho-Oh swtiches in, your next Pokémon will suffer a ridiculously powerful attack in form of Brave Bird or Sacred Fire. There aren't many Pokémon who enjoy taking those hits. Even with the lack of Life Orb, Ho-Oh has the power to cripple the opponent, and Sacred Fire is something that always matter, even if the Pokémon you are hitting resists it, there's still a 50% chance of becoming burned.
The lack of Roost is not a problem at all; Regenerator is a great ability -to say the least-, and makes things easier. BTW, C.Band sets doesn't run Roost and its performance is solid as a rock, due to this ability.
PD: Sry about my ingrish =P
I think the idea of AV Ho-Oh is fine, but do you know of anything it walls with AV that it doesn't already.
252 SpA Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Ho-Oh: 186-218 (44.8 - 52.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
AV turns a 2hko into a likely 3hko, although brave bird recoil turns this into a guaranteed 2hko.
Personally I'd rather just use leftovers. AV makes you way more susceptible to toxic, and brave bird recoil means you won't be able to stay in for more than one strong, super effective hit anyway.
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