Palkia

[MMII]

Name: Palkia
Type: Water / Dragon
Abilities: Pressure / Telepathy
Base Stats: 90 / 120 / 100 / 150 / 120 / 100
Movepool: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/palkia/moves
Stats and movepool unconfirmed

General Description:
With Soul Dew being unavailable, Palkia finds itself as the premier Kyogre counter, a role it got even better at with the introduction of Assault Vest. The change in weather mechanics kinda hurts and helps Palkia, it introduces new counters like nearly every bulky Arceus forme (something that will likely rise in popularity with Defog) but also opens up Fire Blast for a clean roasting of Palkia's old nemesis, Grass Arceus.

 

[Banryu]

Well Xerneas/Carbink/Fairyceus certainly don't make Palkia's life any easier, especially since its Water STAB is about all it has to hit them with, but I think Palkia can still be effective this gen. Assault Vest would make a great counter to Kyogre, and Palkia has the advantage of outspeeding most other cover Legendaries as well, including our new pals Xerny and Yvelty (not that Palk can do much to Xerneas but... yeah). The ability to outspeed every other uber Dragon (well except Arceus, but it gets outsped by Scarf Palk) is nice too.

So... it has those going for it at least.

 

[Edgar]

Well Xerneas/Carbink/Fairyceus certainly don't make Palkia's life any easier, especially since its Water STAB is about all it has to hit them with, but I think Palkia can still be effective this gen. Assault Vest would make a great counter to Kyogre, and Palkia has the advantage of outspeeding most other cover Legendaries as well, including our new pals Xerny and Yvelty (not that Palk can do much to Xerneas but... yeah). The ability to outspeed every other uber Dragon (well except Arceus, but it gets outsped by Scarf Palk) is nice too.

So... it has those going for it at least.

Why would you stay in on Xerneas? You need a very specific reason to do so lol.

 

[Haruno]

Palkia @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 100 SAtk / 252 HP / 156 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
- Surf

Is a set I've been using and have relative success with mainly because 1. I have no idea what crucial 2/ko's 100 SpA kia misses out on as opposed to 252 SpA and 2. The team with it abuses para like no tomorrow so the speed isn't that huge of an issue. As far as calcs are concerned

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 158+ SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 105-125 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Thunder vs. 252 HP / 158+ SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 100-118 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 158+ SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 356-420 (92.7 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

among other not as important things. Overall it seems to be working well and it does work as a offensive pivot at times

 

[Hack]

Well Xerneas/Carbink/Fairyceus certainly don't make Palkia's life any easier, especially since its Water STAB is about all it has to hit them with, but I think Palkia can still be effective this gen. Assault Vest would make a great counter to Kyogre, and Palkia has the advantage of outspeeding most other cover Legendaries as well, including our new pals Xerny and Yvelty (not that Palk can do much to Xerneas but... yeah). The ability to outspeed every other uber Dragon (well except Arceus, but it gets outsped by Scarf Palk) is nice too.

So... it has those going for it at least.

Palkia easily 2HKOs Xerneas in rain. It's not like it can just walk right in on it. Arceus-Fairy is really easy to check, it will fall to either Aegislash or Ho-oh amongst others, depending on what moves it carries.

Palkia is still awesome but rain and sun not lasting forever sucks combined with the lower base power on its moves. With AV, Palkia often finds itself losing to sdef Kyogre :( AV is still a great asset for Palkia, but it should be running the same spread cause it's just pointless to waste that offensive potential with a defensive EV spread on a Pokémon that can't heal or hold leftovers.

 

[Sweep]

I am not particularly high on Assault Vest. The most common way for Kyogre to neutralize/beat Palkia is by getting hax with Thunder or Ice Beam, not by powering its way through the dragon. I greatly prefer Lustrous Orb as it still has very few checks & counters. Remember how hard Palkia was to check in Gen 5? Assault Vest made beating Palkia a little more manageable (hi Amoonguss) but it's still a devastating wallbreaker, especially with Rain support. Assault Vest is more situational than items like Haban Berry, but I feel that Palkia checks Kyogre well enough without Assault Vest and that extra power comes in handy.

 

[Hack]

I am not particularly high on Assault Vest. The most common way for Kyogre to neutralize/beat Palkia is by getting hax with Thunder or Ice Beam, not by powering its way through the dragon. I greatly prefer Lustrous Orb as it still has very few checks & counters. Remember how hard Palkia was to check in Gen 5? Assault Vest made beating Palkia a little more manageable (hi Amoonguss) but it's still a devastating wallbreaker, especially with Rain support. Assault Vest is more situational than items like Haban Berry, but I feel that Palkia checks Kyogre well enough without Assault Vest and that extra power comes in handy.

Most of that is plain wrong tbh. The most common way specs Ogre beats Palkia is by overpowering it, i.e. hitting it with a Thunder on the switch and later on take it out with a Water Spout or Surf. Assault Vest hardly more situational than Haban Berry, it's the other way around and it should be pretty simple to understand. Lust Orb is hampered by the fact that Rain isn't eternal and your Surf/Hydro Pump is nerfed power-wise. Spacial Rend is also nerfed in a way- you got an immunity combined with the fact that crits are way worse in this generation. With Assault Vest you aren't 2HKOd by Thunder from specsogre, you avoid the possible 3HKO from Scarf Water Spout with incredible margin and Thunder from the same set doesn't even come close 3HKOing. It's true that Palkia loses some firepower but with the power nerf on its coverage moves as well as its weather boosted STAB it is already weaker than it was before. It's still not that easy to check, and for me Assault Vest as so many advantages over Lustrous Orb.

 

[MMII]

I've personally been having difficulties deciding on which Palkia set I like the best. It's true that AV tanks Kyogre pretty well but it also doesn't punish the forced switches all too hard which can be pretty bothersome at times. Lust Orb got nerfed but it still punishes switches better, especially after checking Kyogre where you will have that rain up to smash shit. I also like Donkey's Rest + 3 attacks @ Leftovers because it can shrug off the status that gets spammed and that typing is pretty good at creating free turns to burn the sleep counter. Choice Specs is also a set I've been trying out because it still punishes pretty well despite the general nerfs which is balanced out (sorta) by there being much less Ferrothorns. (so you won't miss the perma rain as much as otherwise) I've even tried out Choice Scarf but I found it pretty underwhelming despite the disappearance of Ferrothorn because of it's inability to revenge kill the majority of things that you want your Choice Scarf mon to RK.

 

[hichez]

Let us not forget about choice scarf palkia. This allows it to be a speed demon out-speeding many threats and hitting them with STAB spacial rend or hydro pump(if you opt for that over outrage).

 

[CarbonTheSecond]

Let us not forget about choice scarf palkia. This allows it to be a speed demon out-speeding many threats and hitting them with STAB spacial rend or hydro pump(if you opt for that over outrage).

Thing is, it's just not as good this gen. Xerneas is nigh-on omnipresent, and the weather nerf means Scarfkia can't rely on the extra damage/Thunder accuracy. On top of that, the Lati twins will see a decline in usage until their mega evos are released (as Soul Dew will seemingly be phased out), so Palkia won't have to worry about underspeeding them. Thus, damage (i.e. Lust. Orb, Specs) and defense (AV) boosting items are probably the way to go.

 

[Fireburn]

Most of that is plain wrong tbh. The most common way specs Ogre beats Palkia is by overpowering it, i.e. hitting it with a Thunder on the switch and later on take it out with a Water Spout or Surf.

Not even that, tbh:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Palkia in Rain: 143-169 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO

...whereas:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Palkia in Rain: 95-112 (29.5 - 34.8%) -- 15.3% chance to 3HKO

The difference in tanking ability is huge. However, I do think the item choice comes down to personal preference since Palkia can run many different items effectively. I personally think Assault Vest is much better on teams that have multiple Water weaknesses or just have Palkia as the sole Kyogre switch-in, where AV is really needed so Palkia doesn't get murdered too quickly. If you have backup Kyogre checks or really need the extra damage on certain things, Lustrous Orb would be better then.

That being said, these calcs on AV Palkia are quite interesting, showing just how much special bulk Palkia has with it:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 199-235 (61.9 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Stone Plate Arceus-Rock Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 87-103 (27.1 - 32%)
252 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 270-320 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 206-246 (64.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Palkia: 264-312 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Annabeth]

There is Scarf, Assault Vest, Rest + 3 attacks, what about RestTalk ?

I'm considering this set :

Palkia@Lustruous Orb
Timid 4HP/252Satk/252Spd
Surf
Spacial Rend
Sleep Talk
Rest

Neutral Spacial Rend w/ Lustruous Orb = 100*1.5*1.2= 180, which is almost as strong as super-effective Thunder, so you are not helpless against Kyogre.
This set try to combine durability (something Palkia doesn't have with AV...) and power.
Not sure about EVs and nature, though. Maybe I should give up speed ?