[Completed] Vaporeon

Okuu

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Vaporeon can't 3HKO Aegislash, at least not 252 HP versions. Either be more specific about the set you are talking about or remove Aegislash.

Explain the EV spread and add some teammates for both sets.
Actually, I said it can 'force 3HKOs from', as in, Vaporeon is 3HKO'd by the common sets of those Pokemon, as a general case. I've reworded it for clarity.
 

Okuu

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Side note: I've been testing an OU team with a defensive core of Assault Vest Sap Sipper Goodra and Scald/Wish/Acid Armor/Baton Pass Vaporeon, and it is ridiculously potent. So much of the current metagame is Physically oriented, and passing an Acid Armor to practically anything makes it nigh invulnerable. Scald is just a fantastic move in general, and its excellent burn chance can cripple opponents. Vaporeon forces tons of switches, and those can be used to set up Acid Armor or a Wish. Baton Pass on the following turn, and the recipient will greatly enjoy the defense bonus / heal to full. And throwing just a single Acid Armor onto AV Goodra makes it, for all intents and purposes, invincible.
 

alexwolf

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Those should be the pros:
  • Good movepool, including Wish, Roar, and Acid Armor
  • Good SpA
  • Ok typing and and good bulk
  • Solid choice on Baton Pass teams

And those should be the cons:
  • Nerf of rain limits the viability of Hydration sets
  • Slow
  • Has 4 moveslot syndrome
  • Competition with other Water-types
  • It has ok typing, but mono-Water typing definitely leaves something desired in terms of useful resistances

Set Comments of 1st set said:
and walls just about everything else to a dead halt.
Tone this down, Vaporeon is not that hard to take down.

Set Comments of 1st set said:
With Vaporeon as a physically defensive wall, and sporting Wish Support, it can form a reliable defensive core with a Specially Defensive Assault Vest user, such as Goodra or Heatran (both of which resist Vaporeon's weaknesses) and grant them a pivotal access to HP recovery.
The first paragraph in the set comments is meant to talk about the main moves and the playstyle of the set. Teammates belong to the second (or third) paragraph. Seeing as you also describe Scald's use in the second paragraph rather than in the first, fix everything in the two paragraphs according to what i said. Also, remove Heatran as it is currently unobtainable.

In general, you need to fix your paragraphs based on this:

1st paragraph

Description of the set's moves and general playstyle

2nd (and 3rd if needed) paragraph

Description of the EV spread, natures, alternative moves and items, and teammates.
 

Okuu

Blame [me] for Global Warming!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
Those should be the pros:
  • Good movepool, including Wish, Roar, and Acid Armor
  • Good SpA
  • Ok typing and and good bulk
  • Solid choice on Baton Pass teams

And those should be the cons:
  • Nerf of rain limits the viability of Hydration sets
  • Slow
  • Has 4 moveslot syndrome
  • Competition with other Water-types
  • It has ok typing, but mono-Water typing definitely leaves something desired in terms of useful resistances

Tone this down, Vaporeon is not that hard to take down.

The first paragraph in the set comments is meant to talk about the main moves and the playstyle of the set. Teammates belong to the second (or third) paragraph. Seeing as you also describe Scald's use in the second paragraph rather than in the first, fix everything in the two paragraphs according to what i said. Also, remove Heatran as it is currently unobtainable.

In general, you need to fix your paragraphs based on this:

1st paragraph

Description of the set's moves and general playstyle

2nd (and 3rd if needed) paragraph

Description of the EV spread, natures, alternative moves and items, and teammates.
* As far as redoing the pros/cons section, should I really tone it down that simply, or were you just paraphrasing?
* I actually wouldn't consider Vaporeon's low speed a Con, as it usually likes being able to get hit before it Baton Passes out to a new selection, instead of acting first and having the switch-in take damage instead. In fact, I might consider re-doing the Baton Pass set to reflect that...
 

Epikhairz

Anything goes
For the pros and cons thing, alexwolf was probably paraphrasing, because they do have to be in full sentences by the time this is complete
 

Legitimate Username

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This is my first time doing this, so I doubt it's perfect. I gave it my best shot.
[Pros]

<ul>
<li>A solid defensive movepool, including Wish, Roar, and Acid Armor, give gives it the moves it needs to prolong its longevity on the battlefield.</li>
<li>A high Special Attack stat allows it to make the most good use of Scald and any other offensive moves.</li>
<li>Good typing and respectable bulk make it notoriously hard to kill, and can force while potentially forcing switches.</li>
<li>Access to Baton Pass, alongside as well as set-up and support moves, make makes it an a fantastic candidate for Baton Pass teams.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>The nerf to Rain rain severely limits the viability of any strategy involving Hydration.</li>
<li>Has to compete with many other Water types Water-types to earn a spot on a typical team.</li>
<li>Suffers from four-moveslot syndrome.</li>
<li>Mono-water typing leaves it vulnerable to Grass and Electric moves, both of which are common in the metagame.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Vaporeon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Water Absorb<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Wish<br />
- Protect<br />
- Scald<br />
- Toxic / Ice Beam / Roar</p>

<p>Scald is generally the preferred offensive move on Vaporeon, as it makes the most of Vaporeon's 110 base Sp.Atk, as well as delivers delivering a chance at burning to burn the opponent, and reducing their offensive might. Its last move is there to can cripple the opposition, whether it be through Toxic, which will quickly accumulate damage while the opposition fails to break Vaporeon's defenses, or through Ice Beam, for its offensive prowess against defensively-frail Pokemon. Roar is also a viable option, removing any Pokemon that would otherwise be able to freely set up against it.</p>

<p>With a defensively-oriented EV investment maximizing HP and Defense, in tandem with a Bold Nature, Vaporeon avoids getting 2HKO'd by common versions variations of Garchomp, Aegislash, and Alakazam, and walls while walling just about everything else to a dead halt. Meanwhile, it can deliver massive Wishes to its allies, or use it in tandem with Protect to guarantee self-heals and to stall while stalling the opponent out. With Vaporeon as a physically defensive wall, and sporting Wish Support, it can form a reliable defensive core with a Specially Defensive Assault Vest user, such as Goodra or Heatran (both of which resist Vaporeon's weaknesses) and grant them a pivotal access to HP recovery.


<p>Vaporeon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Water Absorb<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Baton Pass<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Acid Armor / Wish / Aqua Ring<br />
- Scald / Roar</p>

<p>The timeless Baton Pass set-up. Even though Vaporeon has gotten nothing new to bolster the viability of this set, it's still quite formidable. With Baton Pass, Vaporeon can pass along a wide host of benefits to its allies. Substitute is the selling point of this set, allowing Vaporeon to shield itself or an ally with a status-absorbing, high-HP Substitute. Acid Armor is incredibly useful in this generation, with the nerf in power of many common Special moves and the resultant shift toward more Physical attackers on a team. Being able to boost any allied Pokemon's Defense can often cement a sweeper's position on the field, and simply using it on Vaporeon can force many common attackers away. Wish is another popular choice for the third moveslot, as it also takes advantage of Vaporeon's massive HP to heal incoming allies by a whopping 232 HP, and further cements bolsters Vaporeon's own survivability. Aqua Ring was a sketchier option in previous generations, but with the overall bulkier Pokemon of the X/Y generation, it has a much greater chance of lasting longer, and conferring more of its benefits to either Vaporeon or the Baton Pass recipient. The last move is one to help Vaporeon stay on the field longer. Scald prevents Vaporeon from becoming Taunt-bait, does respectable STAB damage, and can cripple an opposer with the Burn burn status. Roar can phaze away set-up sweepers that would otherwise laugh in the face of this set, as well as any immediate threat to Vaporeon.</p>

<p>Maximizing Vaporeon's HP with this set allows it to create both 116 HP Substitutes and 232 HP Wishes, and makes Vaporeon much harder to take down. A 136-point investment in Speed lets Vaporeon reach 200 Speed, which allows it to both outspeed a wide host of Pokemon and set up Substitutes before getting hit by moves like Toxic or Thunder Wave. The remaining 120 points are slotted into Defense, to allow Vaporeon to better survive Physical physical attacks. This specific set-up leaves Vaporeon slightly more specially defensive than physically defensive, but with its high HP, can let it comfortably survive a wide range of attacks nonetheless. A Sub-Passing Sub-passing Vaporeon splashes well into a variety of teams, and works best to protect a set-up sweeper and give them the turn they need to start their sweep. Rather than having specific teammates that work best, Sub-Pass Vaporeon enables situational counterplay, by predicting moves and then Baton Passing into an advantageous situation, or away from a disadvantageous one.</p>


[Checks and Counters]

<p>Due to Vaporeon's large moveset movepool, checks and counters can vary wildly depending on which moves Vaporeon isn't using. Set-up sweepers are hard-pressed to find something better than a Vaporeon to set up against, unless that Vaporeon lands a Toxic / Haze / Roar, or manages to burn a Physical physical set-up sweeper with Scald. Even if Vaporeon Baton Passes out, the opposing Pokemon can still get a free buff / attack in. A Quiver Dance sweeper like Volcarona or Vivillon can easily set up a QD and either shrug off the incoming Scald or enjoy the unopposed boost when they switch out to something else. With access to both Wish and Baton Pass, Vaporeon is notoriously hard to properly 'check', as it specializes in supporting the next Pokemon to switch in after it, and also because most Vaporeons aren't offensively focused.</p>

<p>In general, most Grass-types can easily switch in on Vaporeon and either set up on it or outright kill it. Breloom, Venusaur, Roserade, Chesnaught, and Trevenant all have some way of boosting their stats, and the first three also carry a handy Toxic Immunity. Rotom-W is also an easy counter, though its tendency to carry Volt Switch as its only Electric STAB usually prevents it from staying in long enough to KO Vaporeon on its own. Other speedy Electric-types, such as Jolteon, Galvantula, and Zapdos, can simply soak up an incoming Toxic or Scald and 2HKO with their Electric STABs STAB of choice. Opposing walls can also pose a problem, as Blissey can soak up Scalds for days, cleric away any burns or Toxics it might may receive, and heal itself far beyond Vaporeon's capability to damage. Skarmory doesn't appreciate the burn from Scald, but is immune to Toxic, and has little issue with Roosting away damage it would receive on the switch. Similarly, Ferrothorn similarly doesn't like getting Burned burned, but has STAB Power Whip, a Toxic immunity, and access to Leech Seed to make it enough of a threat nonetheless.</p>


Copy-paste.
[Pros]

<ul>
<li>A solid defensive movepool, including Wish, Roar, and Acid Armor, gives it the moves it needs to prolong its longevity on the battlefield.</li>
<li>A high Special Attack stat allows it to make good use of Scald and other offensive moves.</li>
<li>Good typing and respectable bulk make it notoriously hard to kill while potentially forcing switches.</li>
<li>Access to Baton Pass, as well as set-up and support moves, makes it a fantastic candidate for Baton Pass teams.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>The nerf to rain severely limits the viability of any strategy involving Hydration.</li>
<li>Has to compete with many other Water-types to earn a spot on a typical team.</li>
<li>Suffers from four-moveslot syndrome.</li>
<li>Mono-water typing leaves it vulnerable to Grass and Electric moves, both of which are common in the metagame.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Vaporeon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Water Absorb<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Wish<br />
- Protect<br />
- Scald<br />
- Toxic / Ice Beam / Roar</p>

<p>Scald is generally the preferred offensive move on Vaporeon, as it makes the most of Vaporeon's 110 base Sp.Atk, as well as delivering a chance to burn the opponent, reducing their offensive might. Its last move can cripple the opposition, whether it be through Toxic, which will quickly accumulate damage while the opposition fails to break Vaporeon's defenses, or through Ice Beam, for its offensive prowess against defensively-frail Pokemon. Roar is also a viable option, removing any Pokemon that would otherwise be able to freely set up against it.</p>

<p>With a defensively-oriented EV investment maximizing HP and Defense, in tandem with a Bold Nature, Vaporeon avoids getting 2HKO'd by common variations of Garchomp, Aegislash, and Alakazam, while walling just about everything else to a dead halt. Meanwhile, it can deliver massive Wishes to its allies, or use it in tandem with Protect to guarantee self-heals while stalling the opponent out. With Vaporeon as a physically defensive wall sporting Wish Support, it can form a reliable defensive core with a Specially Defensive Assault Vest user, such as Goodra or Heatran (both of which resist Vaporeon's weaknesses) and grant them a pivotal access to HP recovery.


<p>Vaporeon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Water Absorb<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Baton Pass<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Acid Armor / Wish / Aqua Ring<br />
- Scald / Roar</p>

<p>The timeless Baton Pass set-up. Even though Vaporeon has gotten nothing new to bolster the viability of this set, it's still quite formidable. With Baton Pass, Vaporeon can pass along a wide host of benefits to its allies. Substitute is the selling point of this set, allowing Vaporeon to shield itself or an ally with a status-absorbing, high-HP Substitute. Acid Armor is incredibly useful in this generation, with the nerf in power of many common Special moves and the resultant shift toward more Physical attackers on a team. Being able to boost any allied Pokemon's Defense can often cement a sweeper's position on the field, and simply using it on Vaporeon can force many common attackers away. Wish is another popular choice for the third moveslot, as it also takes advantage of Vaporeon's massive HP to heal incoming allies by a whopping 232 HP, and further bolsters Vaporeon's own survivability. Aqua Ring was a sketchier option in previous generations, but with the overall bulkier Pokemon of the X/Y generation, it has a much greater chance of lasting longer, and conferring more of its benefits to either Vaporeon or the Baton Pass recipient. The last move is one to help Vaporeon stay on the field longer. Scald prevents Vaporeon from becoming Taunt-bait, does respectable STAB damage, and can cripple an opposer with the burn status. Roar can phaze away set-up sweepers that would otherwise laugh in the face of this set, as well as any immediate threat to Vaporeon.</p>

<p>Maximizing Vaporeon's HP with this set allows it to create 116 HP Substitutes and 232 HP Wishes, and makes Vaporeon much harder to take down. A 136-point investment in Speed lets Vaporeon reach 200 Speed, which allows it to both outspeed a wide host of Pokemon and set up Substitutes before getting hit by moves like Toxic or Thunder Wave. The remaining 120 points are slotted into Defense, to allow Vaporeon to better survive physical attacks. This specific set-up leaves Vaporeon slightly more specially defensive than physically defensive, but its high HP can let it comfortably survive a wide range of attacks nonetheless. A Sub-passing Vaporeon splashes well into a variety of teams, and works best to protect a set-up sweeper and give them the turn they need to start their sweep. Rather than having specific teammates that work best, Sub-Pass Vaporeon enables situational counterplay, by predicting moves and then Baton Passing into an advantageous situation, or away from a disadvantageous one.</p>


[Checks and Counters]

<p>Due to Vaporeon's large movepool, checks and counters can vary wildly depending on which moves Vaporeon isn't using. Set-up sweepers are hard-pressed to find something better than a Vaporeon to set up against, unless that Vaporeon lands a Toxic / Haze / Roar, or manages to burn a physical set-up sweeper with Scald. Even if Vaporeon Baton Passes out, the opposing Pokemon can still get a free buff / attack in. A Quiver Dance sweeper like Volcarona or Vivillon can easily set up a QD and either shrug off the incoming Scald or enjoy the unopposed boost when they switch out to something else. With access to both Wish and Baton Pass, Vaporeon is notoriously hard to properly 'check', as it specializes in supporting the next Pokemon to switch in after it, and also because most Vaporeons aren't offensively focused.</p>

<p>In general, most Grass-types can easily switch in on Vaporeon and either set up on it or outright kill it. Breloom, Venusaur, Roserade, Chesnaught, and Trevenant all have some way of boosting their stats, and the first three also carry a handy Toxic Immunity. Rotom-W is also an easy counter, though its tendency to carry Volt Switch as its only Electric STAB usually prevents it from staying in long enough to KO Vaporeon on its own. Other speedy Electric-types, such as Jolteon, Galvantula, and Zapdos can simply soak up an incoming Toxic or Scald and 2HKO with their Electric STAB of choice. Opposing walls can also pose a problem, as Blissey can soak up Scalds for days, cleric away any burns or Toxics it may receive, and heal itself far beyond Vaporeon's capability to damage. Skarmory doesn't appreciate the burn from Scald, but is immune to Toxic, and has little issue with Roosting away damage it would receive on the switch. Similarly, Ferrothorn doesn't like getting burned, but STAB Power Whip, a Toxic immunity, and access to Leech Seed make it a threat nonetheless.</p>
 
Last edited:

alexwolf

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Sorry for being late, but yeah i was paraphrasing.
<li>Mono-water typing leaves it vulnerable to Grass and Electric moves, both of which are common in the metagame.</li>
This is not what i said...
alexwolf said:
It has ok typing, but mono-Water typing definitely leaves something desired in terms of useful resistances
Which means that even though Vaporeon has good bulk, it struggles to wall many Pokemon due to its lack of useful resistances.
 

Okuu

Blame [me] for Global Warming!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
Alright, I've edited the Cons section again, and implemented that preliminary GP check!
 

Zystral

めんどくさい、な~
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Okuu

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>A solid defensive movepool that includes Wish, Roar, and Acid Armor, gives it evertyhing it needs to prolong its longevity on the battlefield.</li>
<li>A high Special Attack stat allows it to make good use of Scald and other offensive moves.</li>
<li>Good typing and respectable bulk make it notoriously hard to kill while potentially forcing switches.</li>
<li>Access to Baton Pass, as well as set-up and support moves, makes it a fantastic candidate for Baton Pass teams.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>The nerf to rain severely limits the viability of any strategy involving Hydration.</li>
<li>Has to compete with many other Water-types to earn a spot on a typical team.</li>
<li>Suffers from four-moveslot syndrome.</li>
<li>Mono-Water typing lacks the useful resistances necessary to effectively wall many Pokemon.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Vaporeon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Water Absorb<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Wish<br />
- Protect<br />
- Scald<br />
- Toxic / Ice Beam / Roar</p>

<p>Scald is generally the preferred offensive move on Vaporeon, as it not only makes the most of Vaporeon's 110 base Sp.Atk, as well as delivering but also delivers a chance to burn the opponent, reducing their offensive might. Its last move can cripple the opposition, whether it be through Toxic, which will quickly accumulate damage while the opposition fails to break Vaporeon's defenses, or through Ice Beam, for its offensive prowess against defensively-frail Pokemon. Roar is also a viable option, removing any Pokemon that would otherwise be able to freely set up against Vaporeon.</p>

<p>With a defensively-oriented EV investment maximizing HP and Defense, in tandem with a Bold Nature means Vaporeon avoids getting 2HKO'd by common variations of Garchomp, Aegislash, and Alakazam, while walling just about everything else to a dead halt. Meanwhile, it can deliver massive Wishes to its allies, or use it in tandem with Protect to guarantee self-heals while stalling the opponent out. With Vaporeon as a physically defensive wall sporting Wish Support, it can form a reliable defensive core with a Specially Defensive Assault Vest user, such as Goodra or Heatran (both of which resist Vaporeon's weaknesses) and grant them a pivotal access to HP recovery.


<p>Vaporeon @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Water Absorb<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Baton Pass<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Acid Armor / Wish / Aqua Ring<br />
- Scald / Roar</p>

<p>The timeless Baton Pass set-up. Even though Vaporeon has gotten nothing new to bolster the viability of this set, it's still quite formidable. With Baton Pass, Vaporeon can pass along a wide host of benefits to its allies. Substitute is the selling point of this set, allowing Vaporeon to shield itself or an ally with a status-absorbing, high-HP Substitute. Acid Armor is incredibly useful in this generation, with the nerf in power of many common Special moves and the resultant shift toward more Physical attackers on a team. Being able to boost any allied Pokemon's Defense can often cement a sweeper's position on the field, and simply using it on Vaporeon can force many common attackers away. Wish is another popular choice for the third moveslot, as it also takes advantage of Vaporeon's massive HP to heal incoming allies by a whopping 232 HP, and further bolsters Vaporeon's own survivability. Aqua Ring was a sketchier option in previous generations, but with the overall bulkier Pokemon in the XY generation, it has a much greater chance of lasting longer, and conferring more of its benefits to either Vaporeon or the Baton Pass recipient. The last move is one to help Vaporeon stay on the field longer. Scald prevents Vaporeon from becoming Taunt-bait, does respectable STAB damage, and can cripple an opponent with the burn status. Roar can phaze away set-up sweepers that would otherwise laugh in the face of this set, as well as any immediate threat to Vaporeon.</p>

<p>Maximizing Vaporeon's HP with this set allows it to create 116 HP Substitutes and 232 HP Wishes, and makes Vaporeon much harder to take down. A 136-point investment in Speed lets Vaporeon reach 200 Speed, which allows it to both outspeed a wide host of Pokemon and set up Substitutes before getting hit by moves such as Toxic or Thunder Wave. The remaining 120 points are slotted into Defense, to allow Vaporeon to better survive physical attacks. This specific set-up leaves Vaporeon slightly more specially defensive than physically defensive, but its high HP can let it comfortably survive a wide range of attacks nonetheless. A Sub-passing Vaporeon splashes well into a variety of teams, and works best to protect a set-up sweeper and give them the turn they need to start their sweep. Rather than having specific teammates that work best, Sub-Pass Vaporeon enables situational counterplay, by either predicting moves and then Baton Passing into an advantageous situation, or away from a disadvantageous one.</p>


[Checks and Counters]

<p>Due to Vaporeon's large movepool, checks and counters can vary wildly depending on which moves Vaporeon is or isn't using. Set-up sweepers are hard-pressed to find something better than a Vaporeon to set up against, unless that Vaporeon lands a Toxic / Haze / Roar, or manages to burn a physical set-up sweeper with Scald. Even if Vaporeon Baton Passes out, the opposing Pokemon can still get a free buff / attack in. A Quiver Dance sweeper such as Volcarona or Vivillon can easily set up a QD and either shrug off the incoming Scald or enjoy the unopposed boost when they switch out to something else. With access to both Wish and Baton Pass, Vaporeon is notoriously hard to properly 'check', as it specializes more in supporting the next Pokemon to switch in after it and less so in offensive focus., and also because most Vaporeons aren't offensively focused.</p>

<p>In general, most Grass-types can easily switch in on Vaporeon and either set up on it or outright kill it. Breloom, Venusaur, Roserade, Chesnaught, and Trevenant all have some way of boosting their stats, and the first three also carry a handy Toxic immunity. Rotom-W is also an easy counter, though its tendency to carry Volt Switch as its only Electric STAB usually prevents it from staying in long enough to KO Vaporeon on its own. Other speedy Electric-types, such as Jolteon, Galvantula, and Zapdos can simply soak up an incoming Toxic or Scald and 2HKO with their Electric STAB of choice. Opposing walls can also pose a problem, as Blissey can soak up Scalds for days, cleric away any burns or Toxics it may receive, and heal itself far beyond Vaporeon's capability to damage. Skarmory doesn't appreciate the burn from Scald, but is immune to Toxic, and has little issue with Roosting away damage it would receive on the switch. Similarly, Ferrothorn doesn't like getting burned, but STAB Power Whip, a Toxic immunity, and access to Leech Seed make it a threat nonetheless.</p>
chill on the commas, dude.

gp approved
 

Okuu

Blame [me] for Global Warming!
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
And with that, I have finally rectified my horrible abuse of the comma.
 

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