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3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
Been seeing some Expert Belt special attacking Blissey by the JP players, which is annoying to face.
I myself am training a wall Blissey, I'll see how well it works in a 3v3 meta.
Edit: Tested a Hippowdon for a bit. Fantastic Physical wall, but somewhat threatened by all the Rotom-W running around. Haven't used Blissey yet, and with all the physical attackers running around her role seems a bit... meh.
Gonna test out a Specs Clawitzer and a Breloom next.
I myself am training a wall Blissey, I'll see how well it works in a 3v3 meta.
Edit: Tested a Hippowdon for a bit. Fantastic Physical wall, but somewhat threatened by all the Rotom-W running around. Haven't used Blissey yet, and with all the physical attackers running around her role seems a bit... meh.
Gonna test out a Specs Clawitzer and a Breloom next.
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Does anybody see straightforward Moody SmashPass Smeargle leads still? I'd figure running Focus Sash and leading with Spore (free sleep if they lack something immune), then hitting Shell Smash and eventually Baton Passing to a bulky attacker (M-Kanga would be great). Does this get run fairly often? E.g. King's Shield -> Spore -> Shell Smash (assuming they switch and don't have Sleep Talk) -> King's Shield -> Baton Pass with 4 Moody boosts, presumably outspeeding whoever's in at the time thanks to Shell Smash and Moody? Natch, it has plenty of counters, from fast Taunt to Grass types to Overcoat to double hits from M-Kanga.
I've also been considering which fast Taunt lead to bring to a lot of matches, to stop that kind of nonsense. For me so far the leading contenders have been:
- Sash Weavile, like a boss (I like Varnithis' set, Adamant with Icicle Crash / Night Slash / Counter / Taunt. Hits like a freight train against the many foes that it outspeeds, and Counters physical attackers that it doesn't outspeed).
- Prankster Sableye, but it's completely overdone by everybody out there.
- Frisk Taunt Noivern... or is Frisk Switcheroo (with Choice Specs) better?
I am trying to fit at least one, maybe two of these into my party of 6 for 3v3 singles (wouldn't mind both Weavile and Noivern since they fill different roles, e.g. I wouldn't bring Noivern anywhere near a Blissey team but would worry about using Counter Weavile against a team with several Special threats).
Other current members include haxploit Baton Pass Drifblim / Rotom-W / M-Kanga / M-Gengar / Magic Bounce Screener Espeon, currently with room for one. I also know that I could run Talonflame and/or Klefki, but I'd rather not. Would I be able to drop Espeon if I bring both Weavile and Noivern with Taunt (or Switcheroo)? Or should I keep Espeon on there since I like my screens? I know popular opinion will be to drop scumbag Drifblim, but in the 1650-1700 range I still find teams that are lacking a surefire counter to him on occasion, and he's pretty much a win condition in those circumstances. Not to mention it feels good to use him after battling so many Japanese players with 30 minute stall teams that deal no damage.
I've also been considering which fast Taunt lead to bring to a lot of matches, to stop that kind of nonsense. For me so far the leading contenders have been:
- Sash Weavile, like a boss (I like Varnithis' set, Adamant with Icicle Crash / Night Slash / Counter / Taunt. Hits like a freight train against the many foes that it outspeeds, and Counters physical attackers that it doesn't outspeed).
- Prankster Sableye, but it's completely overdone by everybody out there.
- Frisk Taunt Noivern... or is Frisk Switcheroo (with Choice Specs) better?
I am trying to fit at least one, maybe two of these into my party of 6 for 3v3 singles (wouldn't mind both Weavile and Noivern since they fill different roles, e.g. I wouldn't bring Noivern anywhere near a Blissey team but would worry about using Counter Weavile against a team with several Special threats).
Other current members include haxploit Baton Pass Drifblim / Rotom-W / M-Kanga / M-Gengar / Magic Bounce Screener Espeon, currently with room for one. I also know that I could run Talonflame and/or Klefki, but I'd rather not. Would I be able to drop Espeon if I bring both Weavile and Noivern with Taunt (or Switcheroo)? Or should I keep Espeon on there since I like my screens? I know popular opinion will be to drop scumbag Drifblim, but in the 1650-1700 range I still find teams that are lacking a surefire counter to him on occasion, and he's pretty much a win condition in those circumstances. Not to mention it feels good to use him after battling so many Japanese players with 30 minute stall teams that deal no damage.
Specs Noivern lead is a beast. Draco Meteor OHKO's anything that doesn't resist it with uninvested base defenses of about 80/xx/85, and the Frisk Switcheroo combo is very useful. Unfortunately it doesn't stop Mega Banette.
Hi 1650-1700 ranking here, ive played some "gimicks" like baton pass and dual screens (currently working on that) and switchero Noivern screws alot of those things big time as the above poster said Frisk Switcheroo specs noivern is a beast, PLUS you can't magic bounce a shitcheroo.
Tested Clawitzer and Breloom in Free Battles and Ranked.
Clawitzer is... not great, but not terrible either. Specs Clawitzer demolishes leads or any switchins with some prediction and its amazing coverage, but more often than not it'll blast something to smithereens, and then die to the replacement because of its low speed and mediocre defenses.
Breloom is AMAZING in a 3v3 environment. My god. With proper prediction and team support, Breloom eats leads for breakfast. Technician Mach Punch or Bullet Seed is nothing to sneeze at, and Spore is useful anytime. Rock Tomb kills those annoying Togekisses and can kill a Talonflame or Pinsir on a switch.
Still sitting around 1750, and I hope to get higher with my new toys. Currently running Clawitzer/Breloom/Talonflame/Kangaskhan/Goodra/Gastrodon. I feel like I should put in a Hippowdon in there somewhere, due to its massive Defense, Ice Fang for Garchomp and Whirlwind for annoying boosters, but I'm not sure who to take out.
Edit: I feel like testing out Life Orb or Specs Accelgor. Something like this:
Accelgor @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Mild Nature (Outspeeds a lot anyway, outsped only by Base 128s most of which are not relevant, base Def is crap so lowering it won't do much)
Ability: Sticky Hold (Can use Hydration, but Sticky Hold is probably better in general to avoid Trick/Switcheroo users)
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Bug Buzz
-Focus Blast
-Giga Drain
-U-Turn
With Bug Buzz passing subs, something like this could be surprising for an opponent. Just need to trade with someone though lol...
Final Gambit could also be an option if you want to be an absolute troll.
Sludge Bomb could be considered to hit Fairies, but Azumarill gets hit hard by Giga Drain, and you wouldn't want to fight Togekiss. The only other common Fairy is Mawile, which doesn't get hit by Sludge Bomb, but who knows, maybe it'll be useful.
I forget, does Life Orb recoil happen with U-Turn? Does it do recoil before you switch out?
Clawitzer is... not great, but not terrible either. Specs Clawitzer demolishes leads or any switchins with some prediction and its amazing coverage, but more often than not it'll blast something to smithereens, and then die to the replacement because of its low speed and mediocre defenses.
Breloom is AMAZING in a 3v3 environment. My god. With proper prediction and team support, Breloom eats leads for breakfast. Technician Mach Punch or Bullet Seed is nothing to sneeze at, and Spore is useful anytime. Rock Tomb kills those annoying Togekisses and can kill a Talonflame or Pinsir on a switch.
Still sitting around 1750, and I hope to get higher with my new toys. Currently running Clawitzer/Breloom/Talonflame/Kangaskhan/Goodra/Gastrodon. I feel like I should put in a Hippowdon in there somewhere, due to its massive Defense, Ice Fang for Garchomp and Whirlwind for annoying boosters, but I'm not sure who to take out.
Edit: I feel like testing out Life Orb or Specs Accelgor. Something like this:
Accelgor @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Mild Nature (Outspeeds a lot anyway, outsped only by Base 128s most of which are not relevant, base Def is crap so lowering it won't do much)
Ability: Sticky Hold (Can use Hydration, but Sticky Hold is probably better in general to avoid Trick/Switcheroo users)
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Bug Buzz
-Focus Blast
-Giga Drain
-U-Turn
With Bug Buzz passing subs, something like this could be surprising for an opponent. Just need to trade with someone though lol...
Final Gambit could also be an option if you want to be an absolute troll.
Sludge Bomb could be considered to hit Fairies, but Azumarill gets hit hard by Giga Drain, and you wouldn't want to fight Togekiss. The only other common Fairy is Mawile, which doesn't get hit by Sludge Bomb, but who knows, maybe it'll be useful.
I forget, does Life Orb recoil happen with U-Turn? Does it do recoil before you switch out?
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i've tryed a version of breloom myself while trying "original" things, i slaped him a choice scarf WITH spore, so my reasoning was that in 3v3 a sleep pokemon is as good as dead (not really but almost) my breelom has.
Breloom@Choice Scarf
Adamant - Technician - Max Atk/Speed
Rock tomb
Force Palm
Bullet Seed
Spore
So i was thinking something like turn one spore and then switch out to a swords dance sweeper inmediatly, say garchomp, if he didnt switched out and stayed asleep you could set up, if he switches out your at a good spot because they sudenly lost 1/3 of their team then you use breelom as a revenge killer, if you pull of a lucky 3 turn sleep chances are you win, so this was my thouts on paper.
On practice, sleep rarely lasted 2/3 turns (yeah when they use spore on my pokemon it lasts 87 turns but when i use it, it lasted 1) BUT strangely enought i got like a 8 win streak with this the games almost never went as i expected, bear in mind this was tested while ranked battles where off, im not really sure how but breelom seemed to one shot alot of things, technician rock tomb/force palm/bullet seed, was amazing and when you really got the spore hax it was insta GG, also you dont really have to go spore everytime, breelom is a great anti lead for a lot of things and they NEVER expect a scarf, for example a rottom user stays in to break your sash with volt switch/burn you, and gets one shoted by technician bullet seed.
Breloom@Choice Scarf
Adamant - Technician - Max Atk/Speed
Rock tomb
Force Palm
Bullet Seed
Spore
So i was thinking something like turn one spore and then switch out to a swords dance sweeper inmediatly, say garchomp, if he didnt switched out and stayed asleep you could set up, if he switches out your at a good spot because they sudenly lost 1/3 of their team then you use breelom as a revenge killer, if you pull of a lucky 3 turn sleep chances are you win, so this was my thouts on paper.
On practice, sleep rarely lasted 2/3 turns (yeah when they use spore on my pokemon it lasts 87 turns but when i use it, it lasted 1) BUT strangely enought i got like a 8 win streak with this the games almost never went as i expected, bear in mind this was tested while ranked battles where off, im not really sure how but breelom seemed to one shot alot of things, technician rock tomb/force palm/bullet seed, was amazing and when you really got the spore hax it was insta GG, also you dont really have to go spore everytime, breelom is a great anti lead for a lot of things and they NEVER expect a scarf, for example a rottom user stays in to break your sash with volt switch/burn you, and gets one shoted by technician bullet seed.
I honestly feel after getting donked by numerous random Pokemon with Sleep Talk, and 3 consecutive 1-turn Sleeps, that Wi-Fi's kinda prepared for most Breloom in general. Using Spore's kind of a win-loss depending on your opponent. I do prefer Sash but I guess Scarf Breloom can get some surprises off on people not expecting it
Yeah... I'm aware :l
I'm firmly stuck in the 1650 - 1700 range, mostly due to having a mediocre team and running into some seriously bad luck. Oh well!
-Mega Manectric is awesome. Pocket Intimidate is really the main draw to using it. You can use it to straight up check pretty much every physical threat in the format, or put them at disadvantage from turn one and switch out with Volt Switch. Its Speed lets it get the drop on pretty much the entire metagame, and the fact that Pokemon are stuck at lvl 50 works to its advantage, since the increased damage on its attacks sorta mitigates to lowish base power. I know it has 43.75% chance to OHKO Garchomp in 3v3, as opposed to the 18.75% chance it would have at level 100.
-Fuck Mega Kanghaskan? Fuck Mega Kanghaskan. I hate how it can show up as the last Pokemon and finish off a weakened Pokemon with Power up Punch, then sweep with +2 Return / Sucker Punch. I want to punch a brick wall every time that happens, jesus christ. I'm thinking of
-Mega Venusaur is godlike. It hard counters the living shit out of Rotom-W and the rest of the Water-, Grass- & Electric-types. So much utility into one Pokemon, everyone should carry/prepare for this thing. I need to get one with HP Fire :0
-Haxorus doesn't seem so bad in 3v3 (for now anyway...). I've been using DD/Outrage/EQ/Poison Jab, and it's been doing ok. The spread I use outruns neutral nature maxed speed base 80s (81 for Gyarados*) and it has enough bulk to take always take 0+ Return from Mega Kanghaskan. Dragonite is almost certainly the better DDer, but Haxorus has a couple of tricks up its sleeve. Mold Breaker being the big one, for levitate users (Gengar & Rotom-W) & Multiscal Dragonite. The mono-Dragon typing is pretty nifty too. Unfortunately, it's so freaking frail even with defensive investment it dies to pretty much anything remotely strong.
-Hill's Talonflame set is so good. Well, Hill's "everything" is so good, but specifically that WoW Talonflame has gotten me out of so many jams. I don't even want to look at Choice Band anymore.
-People are carrying Stealth Rock. :lol
-3 words for the people who run stall teams/Klefki. I hate you.
-Mega Manectric is awesome. Pocket Intimidate is really the main draw to using it. You can use it to straight up check pretty much every physical threat in the format, or put them at disadvantage from turn one and switch out with Volt Switch. Its Speed lets it get the drop on pretty much the entire metagame, and the fact that Pokemon are stuck at lvl 50 works to its advantage, since the increased damage on its attacks sorta mitigates to lowish base power. I know it has 43.75% chance to OHKO Garchomp in 3v3, as opposed to the 18.75% chance it would have at level 100.
-Fuck Mega Kanghaskan? Fuck Mega Kanghaskan. I hate how it can show up as the last Pokemon and finish off a weakened Pokemon with Power up Punch, then sweep with +2 Return / Sucker Punch. I want to punch a brick wall every time that happens, jesus christ. I'm thinking of
-Mega Venusaur is godlike. It hard counters the living shit out of Rotom-W and the rest of the Water-, Grass- & Electric-types. So much utility into one Pokemon, everyone should carry/prepare for this thing. I need to get one with HP Fire :0
-Haxorus doesn't seem so bad in 3v3 (for now anyway...). I've been using DD/Outrage/EQ/Poison Jab, and it's been doing ok. The spread I use outruns neutral nature maxed speed base 80s (81 for Gyarados*) and it has enough bulk to take always take 0+ Return from Mega Kanghaskan. Dragonite is almost certainly the better DDer, but Haxorus has a couple of tricks up its sleeve. Mold Breaker being the big one, for levitate users (Gengar & Rotom-W) & Multiscal Dragonite. The mono-Dragon typing is pretty nifty too. Unfortunately, it's so freaking frail even with defensive investment it dies to pretty much anything remotely strong.
-Hill's Talonflame set is so good. Well, Hill's "everything" is so good, but specifically that WoW Talonflame has gotten me out of so many jams. I don't even want to look at Choice Band anymore.
-People are carrying Stealth Rock. :lol
-3 words for the people who run stall teams/Klefki. I hate you.
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This scenario happened to me:
Opponent sent out Magnezone as his first pokémon. I sent Ampharos. I quickly mega-evolved it and choose agility. He switched into Garchomp. Then, I OHKOed his 3 pokémon with Dragonpulse/Focus Blast/Discharge. It was easy.
God, I hate Togekiss so damn much. Stupid Paraflinch crap. And it's pretty damn bulky to boot so I'm not killing it without getting paralyzed or heavily damaged.
Finally got a goddamn Mandibuzz. It's looking decent so far in Free Battles, gonna test it in Ranked soon. Overcoat is amazing with Sandstorm support from Hippowdon, and they form a great duo on the defensive side.
Finally got a goddamn Mandibuzz. It's looking decent so far in Free Battles, gonna test it in Ranked soon. Overcoat is amazing with Sandstorm support from Hippowdon, and they form a great duo on the defensive side.
Holy shit does Mega Gyarados screw me over so much.
Well, if I predict well, it doesn't do much, but if I don't bring Talonflame/Breloom or let my Mega Kanga die early, it will fuck me up so much.
It doesn't help that I don't know if it's a Mega or not.
Well, if I predict well, it doesn't do much, but if I don't bring Talonflame/Breloom or let my Mega Kanga die early, it will fuck me up so much.
It doesn't help that I don't know if it's a Mega or not.
UPDATE # 3
i've finally hit past the 1700 mark with a team revolving around 'sub-three attacks' mega mawile and a 'choice scarf' hydreigon (guest starring breloom,talonflame,shitty ass gyarados, and rotom-w)
comments
-everyone using mega kangaskhan can go fuck themselves
-mega venusaur is broken in this format like what do you even do against this thing beside use something like safety goggle volcarona????
-minimize chansey and starmie are becoming a thing and its disgusting
-mega gyarados is scary uwu regular gyarados is complete shit tho
-assault vest machamp is becoming a thing and i think thats cool, i guess this si what people use to counter those awful minimize users
-I can't deal with ditto...like at all! Is anyone else having trouble with this menace?
...i cant wait for pokebank tbh, terrorizing people with mono attacking suicune and mega venusaur sounds like fun >:D
i've finally hit past the 1700 mark with a team revolving around 'sub-three attacks' mega mawile and a 'choice scarf' hydreigon (guest starring breloom,talonflame,
comments
-everyone using mega kangaskhan can go fuck themselves
-mega venusaur is broken in this format like what do you even do against this thing beside use something like safety goggle volcarona????
-minimize chansey and starmie are becoming a thing and its disgusting
-mega gyarados is scary uwu regular gyarados is complete shit tho
-assault vest machamp is becoming a thing and i think thats cool, i guess this si what people use to counter those awful minimize users
-I can't deal with ditto...like at all! Is anyone else having trouble with this menace?
...i cant wait for pokebank tbh, terrorizing people with mono attacking suicune and mega venusaur sounds like fun >:D
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Scared of Mega Venusaur? Bring a Talonflame or a Sap Sipper Goodra.
Anyway proof that Mega Kangaskhan is disgusting in this format:
N5QW-WWWW-WWW3-U8R9
If you don't prepare for Mega Mom, you will be in a world of pain.
Anyway proof that Mega Kangaskhan is disgusting in this format:
N5QW-WWWW-WWW3-U8R9
If you don't prepare for Mega Mom, you will be in a world of pain.
Tried testing out an Eject Button Dual Screens Klefki, didn't really work very well. Even paired with Megazard X or Mega Mom it was a bit underwhelming, and if they couldn't sweep the entire team it became dead weight later on.
Finally got my hands on Charizardite Y, so I'll be testing this bomb to see how well it does.
Finally got my hands on Charizardite Y, so I'll be testing this bomb to see how well it does.
I really hope they balance out some of these hyper powerful mons this generation. Megakahn is probably the result of an oversight and I think is clearly too good to promote a healthy and diverse metagame (I wonder if GF will patch her or if we have to deal with her until the next games/Gen); maybe poke-bank will alleviate this though.
As a person who hasn't gotten back into the Battlespot since finals week what tips/observations do you guys have over this metagame? What should we be expecting in the next few days with Pokebank coming?
As a person who hasn't gotten back into the Battlespot since finals week what tips/observations do you guys have over this metagame? What should we be expecting in the next few days with Pokebank coming?
GF does not care about a "healthy and diverse metagame". They never did. So don't expect any bans other than some legendaries.
Well I hope that changes.
Either-way the talk about the Eject button has me curious if anyone has thought of an Intimidate Ejector? I toyed with the idea a while ago but never tried it out.
In a really ridiculous way you could severely nerf a physical attacker with a -3 in just one turn setting up a 'freeish' second turn.
Turn 0- Lead Intimidator
Turn 1(a)- Switch to Eject Intimidator get forced out
Turn 1(b)- Switch back to Lead Intimidator
A -3 debuff is huge and you now have your lead Intimidator set up for a free turn of Set-Up, while your other mon got hit with a -2 debuffed move. Its a bit ridiculous and probably not optimal but it has the side effect of allowing you to scout your opponents team.
This really, though, only foils heavy offense.
Either-way the talk about the Eject button has me curious if anyone has thought of an Intimidate Ejector? I toyed with the idea a while ago but never tried it out.
In a really ridiculous way you could severely nerf a physical attacker with a -3 in just one turn setting up a 'freeish' second turn.
Turn 0- Lead Intimidator
Turn 1(a)- Switch to Eject Intimidator get forced out
Turn 1(b)- Switch back to Lead Intimidator
A -3 debuff is huge and you now have your lead Intimidator set up for a free turn of Set-Up, while your other mon got hit with a -2 debuffed move. Its a bit ridiculous and probably not optimal but it has the side effect of allowing you to scout your opponents team.
This really, though, only foils heavy offense.