Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

[Its_A_Random]

Gourgeist as a whole will be tiered as one at the present moment. Size will be irrelevant, though you can point out the pros & cons of some formes. If one size is different enough from the rest to warrant a different tiering to the rest, then it may be treated as such. Yes there are notable differences between Small & Super. The real question is if we should bother tiering all formes separately, something I am not willing to do for now.

Pumpkaboo will be tiered as one irrespective of what happens.

Pumpkaboo Super also has a large opportunity cost from what I can recall. Its encounter rate is like 1% from my calculations. It took me over two hours (maybe three, I do not remember, but it definitely took forever) to find one on Y, & I have not seen another one since. Anecdotal, yes, but this is probably one of the cases where opportunity cost can be a large factor in efficiency.

 

[Korlashh]

I don't see why you wouldn't take on Mawile (no Shell Smash at that point just yet I think), and you could set up against Cryogonal in the last gym battle.

re: Olympia - is it not possible to survive Sigilyph's Psychic? 103 sp. atk. isn't that high. Then again, if you begin your sweep ASAP, I'm not sure if you'll have enough power to OHKO Slowking before dying to his Psychic (or Power Gem, pick your poison) after the stat reduction. Return/Payback may not OHKO at +2 attack (though out of Bro and King, King is the least physical defensive).

Correct, no shell smash until after after that gym and the pokeball factory.

re: Other gyms: I never tested it due to it being risky, but I am more than confident Cloyster wouldn't have survived a STAB psychic with 50/45 bulk. I was also underleveled, so that didn't help anything either. And its best shot at OHKO'ing Slowking is with boosted Spike Cannon / Return, but I kept ice shard for sometimes-needed priority.

Against the ice gym, sure, you could probably set up on Cryogonal and sweep those two. This gym is beyond easy with all their weaknesses for any team to take on. Maybe I should still mention it though.

The risk/reward is just very high when going against any special attacker, although probably not for Cryogonal.

 

[SimicCombine]

Did anyone try using Sigilyph? I only used it for a little bit during my playthrough, but it seems a lot worse than it was in Gen 5. It still gets great STABs and the upgrades/coverage right when it needs them, but there are just so many bulky fighting types who can take a hit and retaliate, and it's weak to pretty much every dang coverage move out there. Take into account a serious case of four moveslot syndrome (3 if you use it for Fly), I only used it for a couple of gyms before benching it. Any thoughts?

 

[CopyKirby]

Swalot - C/D Rank

Avalability: Gulpin is found commonly in hordes on route 5

Typing: Mono poison meaning they only shine in killing Ramos and Valerie (Done much more easaly by blaziken and talonflame)

Stats: HP:100 Atk 73 Def 83 Spc.Atk 73 Spc.Def 83 Spe 55 Ingame, offence is the best defence, (Quoted by Its a Random) Soooo.... Yeah....

Movepool: Read above, Offence is the best defence...

Major Battles:
Grant: Keep Away
Korrina: Wont do to much
Ramos: Despite offence being the best defence ingame, swalot dosent have to shabby of a 73 spc attack stat. so swalot is usable
Clemont:Keep Away From Magneton. Other wise, somewhat usable
Valerie: Mawile Is immune to stab. other wise. another shining point.
Olympia:KEEP AWAY I TELL U KEEEEEP HIIIIMM AWAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!
Wulfric: I Dont know what to say to this one. It might be somewhat usable considering avalugg has low spc defence. otherwise. use a fire type.
Malva: Swalot only shines vs to pokes weak to it. so keep it away
Wikstorm:Keep away
Siebold : Clawitzer's water pulse might kill unless your swalot randomly has some ev's in scd defence or a spc defence boosting nature or some iv's in spc defence other wise clawitzer will kill. as for starmie. it has psychic.
Gyrados has earthquake
and swalot wont be doing anything to barbaracle any time soon.
Dransa: I belive your stab is not very effective. so keep it away
Diantha: somewhat usable vs gardevoir if gardevoir dosent kill you first with psychic. Gourgeist Fears it. (kinda)
Team Flare: The Fire And Dark Typing Of Team Flare (Other then lysandre and manetric) makes swalot mideocre at best. and lysandre? the mega gyrados just kills swalot.
Rivals:Only usable vs florges. otherwise, I just let him sit at the back of my party.

Other Comments: Yes... I've Edited this, and swalots only main shinging points are Ramos And Valarie (Ive said that ABILLION Times). Thats It.

Overall If You Want Something thats checks fairy, Swalot only shines in terms of killing faries and ramos Which is done with much more swiftness from blaziken and talonflame. Thats all i have to say. Im not trying to make you dought swalot, im just pointing out his major flaws.
Swalot is better in wifi then ingame.

 

[Lucchini]

Did anyone try using Sigilyph? I only used it for a little bit during my playthrough, but it seems a lot worse than it was in Gen 5. It still gets great STABs and the upgrades/coverage right when it needs them, but there are just so many bulky fighting types who can take a hit and retaliate, and it's weak to pretty much every dang coverage move out there. Take into account a serious case of four moveslot syndrome (3 if you use it for Fly), I only used it for a couple of gyms before benching it. Any thoughts?

If you're afraid of Rock Slides and Payback, use Reflect. That's what my Kadabra did when I expected not to OHKO an enemy fighting-type with (usually) Psybeam. Except Sigilyph is quite a bit bulkier than Kadabra so the matchups are really favourable regardless of what coverage moves the other side packs. Looks like a candidate for B/C limbo if theorycrafting, though some people might argue that 58/103/97 offences are not good enough (sounds good enough for B seeing how Vivillion is there, though).

 

[Merm]

Thanks for the input on the Pumpkaboo tiering guys! Gonna try out the write-up

Name: Gourgeist - D-Tier
Availability:Pumpkaboo comes late in the game, with only two badges remaining once you catch it. It is fairly common if you have X, and rarer if you have Y. The average sized Pumkaboo's are also more common.
Stats: 55-85/85-100/122/58/75/54-99, depending on size. All Gourgeists have great defense, and the most common sized Gourgeist has a useable base 90 attack and average base 84 speed. Evolution by trade also means you get access to these base stats immediately.
Typing: Ghost gives some nice immunities to Normal and Fighting, and is also useful STAB for the next gym you come across, but Grass cripples it a lot ingame being a STAB that does not hit much for SE damage and gives it a lot of glaring weaknesses, notably to a majority of Team Flare.
Movepool: A Special Movepool from heaven, with unfortunately absolutely no Special Attack to utilise it. Its Physical Movepool is much more sparse, with Razor Leaf, eventually Seed Bomb as its Grass STAB, Shadow Sneak and later Phantom Force as its Ghost STAB. Rock Slide is quite a nice coverage move, and the last two physical options it gets are Return and Flame Charge. It gets some utility moves in Leech Seed and Pain Split (which is more useful if you're Pumpkaboo without evolution), but that's not really efficient.
Major Battles: It holds its own against Olympia, though a 40bp Shadow Sneak is risky, and they can hit back with Shadow Ball. Slowking goes down quite easily to Razor Leaf/Seed Bomb if you have it though. You'll probably want to stay away against Wulfric, though you could take down Abomasnow with Flame Charge. It's a pity you only get Rock Slide after him; would've been really useful.
Team Flare is not kind to Gourgeist at all, where Dark and Fire moves abound. You can at least tank Elektrike/Manectric and hit back, but IIRC they had Bite so you still need to be careful. Lysandre is also pretty bad to Gourgeist, where you need to stay away from Honchkrow and Pyroar. Mienshao, while less dangerous hurts with Acrobatics (you can switch in on predicted HJK if that is your thing). You can tank Gyarados and hit back with Grass, at least.
You'll want to stay from Malva in most situations, unless you can outspeed Chandelure. Also, Gourgeist can tank a Brave Bird from Talonflame and OHKO with Rock Slide, which is neat. You also can't hurt Drasna, and Dragalge's Sludge Bombs and Noivern's Flamethrower/Air Slash hurts. Wilkstrom can't do much to you, but your Flame Charge doesn't hurt much except maybe 2HKO Scizor. You can steamroller over Siebold's Clawitzer and Barbaracle, but you'll need to watch for Gyarados' Ice Fang and Starmie's high Sp. Attack.
For Diantha, you can kill Aurorus, who will always try to set up Screens, try to take on Tyrantrum (watch out for Crunch) and try to go against her own Gourgeist. (She'll use Phantom Force though, which can be annoying). You can also do some damage to Mega-Gardevoir, but if you don't OHKO, she will definitely OHKO you with Shadow Ball.
Additional Comments: I'm trying to unskew my view of Gourgeist, since I evolved mine very late, but even then I think its late availability and lack of great matchups bar Siebold make it D-Tier material.

 

[Korlashh]

Alright, so regarding Espeon:

• Caught it in route 10 in the Yellow flowers (according to Serebii, it's more common than regular grass and lvl 19-20 instead of 20-21. Catching it in 19 is mandatory if you want an Espeon with Psybeam). I paralyzed it, brought it to red bar, and caught it with a luxury ball first try.
• Gave it a massage in the house next to the Pokemon center in Cyllage city, and also gave it an HP Up that I found on route 8 cliffside.
• Made sure I had the bicycle and started biking @ 6:42, and it evolved when I tested it and gave it a rare candy @ 7:01. So roughly 18 minutes when factoring out the scrap time spent saving and testing every 5 minutes and also running into obstacles as a bad cyclist.

It's not efficient per se, but I now have a lvl 20 espeon with 65/130/110 offenses, Psybeam/Swift/Quick Attack/Bite, and holding a mind plate. So, its early game past this should be pretty confortable, especially when people think Braixen soars through these parts.

As a bonus: Whatever Kangakhan or Zangoose wanted a stronger return now has one lol

Edit: There's also a protein in front of the Cyllage Gym to speed up evolution, but it ups the attack stat which isn't desirable.

 

[Lucchini]

Braixen's claim to prowess in this game is basically the same thing that makes Totodile or Cyndaquil good in GSC - being there from the start and not having a shortage of experience and level-ups. We've had some underwhelming starters beginning with gen 5 though (probably even earlier if you want to count Chikorita and Treecko), and I think there has also been a shift in tiering philosophy - I'm no longer sure if Feraligatr would be called Top of Top if the same participants in this thread agreed to discuss gen 2 instead.

 

[Korlashh]

No worries, it wasn't as much a belittling of Braixen as it was support for Espeon.

I will keep Espeon's availability in mind when nominating it for a tier.

 

[Merm]

Also keep in mind that the 18 minutes is similar to Sylveon's 20 minutes, which was enough of a consideration to put it in limbo IIRC.
But yeah, Espeon has pretty comfortable matchups afterwards, especially with Korrina and and Team Flare, and it continues to hit hard although Shadow Ball comes saddeningly late. I imagine it could be comfortably B tier, considering its similarities to Sylveon but with a much better Speed stat.

 

[Lucchini]

You know which Psychic-type is just begging to appear in B tier? Mr. Mime. Dual fairy (though without a fairy STAB until Valerie), good offensive stats, earlier Psychic than Kadabra, Sigilyph and Delphox, support and self-sufficient defence with dual screens (Reflect is the one you'll want to keep), can set up with Calm Mind and even tank SE special hits with Filter, great coverage options - the list goes on and on. It's even a common wild Pokemon just a little before the fighting-type gym; what more could you want?

The only bad thing about Mr. Mime is that it has to wait 2 levels to learn Psybeam (it's stuck with Psywave before that, and Infestation I guess). But those are just two levels, and he can even make himself useful during those by using Reflect and switching into another appropriate counter against those ubiquitous fighting-types (which, honestly, deserve more attention than all Team Flare grunts put together considering their levels and expertise).

 

[Colonel M]

Yeah definitely in agreement with Mr. Mime. It's fast, has screens to patch its pitiful Def (and okay SpD), Filter helps it out, and it has a great movepool overall (Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Dazzling Gleam, Grass Knot.

Also I think I did a mini-analysis with Skorupi and Pawniard, but I think Pawniad could be C just based on:

- the 3 gyms it faces it has a huge advantage
- Eviolite fixes the minor problem with durability and it can afford Eviolite with its Medium Fast EXP growth.
- 60 Speed is sluggish but it isn't bad.
- Good enough movepool for that point. STAB Assurance and STAB Metal Claw is kind of weak, though.
- I guess it might struggle with Gym 6 only because it takes x1 damage from Fairy-type attacks and Mr Mime / Sylveon are special attackers. It isn't really doing much to Mawile.

I might buy Y today so I'll give it a shot. The late evolution sucks but it can sort of work around it.

 

[Lucchini]

Bisharp (tradee) was reviewed just two pages ago. D is hard to argue against, and it's difficult to say whether Bisharp's unevolved presence for one extra gym (whose main attack type it's immune to, but its special bulk is bad even with Eviolite and good resistances - still, should beat Slowking with ease unless there's a fresh Reflect up and Yawn keeps lulling it to sleep) and one Team Flare section really pushes him one tier above the traded Bisharp (which can be better levelled compared to some teams). It's kinda absent for too long and doesn't really bring a whole lot during the time when it is present, because fighting/ground weakness is pretty bad endgame.

I wouldn't recommend trying to argue for C, but if you attempt that then Swords Dance access and related opportunities to shine seem like the thing you may want to emphasise. But seems like a lost cause, considering level 52 is not too far from when you tackle the Elite Four - might as well get the traded evolved Bisharp.

Some other mons worthy of at least B that I'd like to bring up... All are available before the second gym, which is really optimal. I think they all beat or at least rival Vivillion too.

Zangoose: C -> B

Fast user of Swords Dance.

Sandile

Handy immunities, can utilise Power-up Punch + Moxie to grab KOs while giving itself +2 attack.

Absol

This one's either B or C, I think; pretty similar to Zangoose except blocks most psychics and ghosts completely. Possibly belongs in C together with Pinsir due to not being quite fast enough to sweep with SD.

Axew

Good resistances, better unevolved attacks than pseudo-legendaries, Dragon Dance/Swords Dance, even a Poison Jab to fuck Valerie.

Meditite

Rough beginning with Return as its only physical move, but when it gets Rock Smash it becomes pretty good and it only gets scarier from there.

Cubone (20% chance to steal a Bone Club w/ Thief and Compoundeyes)

Physical tank that delivers large amounts of damage. IMHO worthier to be in B than other fatasses like Snorlax and Hariyama (Hariyama could probably be okay in B too - it's definitely better than Snorlax IMHO). L21 Bonemerang is essentially an early Earthquake.

Sigilyph

Great start, diverse coverage, handles fighters really well.

Houndour (X)

Early evolution, great offences, Nasty Plot on relearner. I wish I bought X instead :(

 

[Korlashh]

Houndour (X)

Early evolution, great offences, Nasty Plot on relearner. I wish I bought X instead :(

I have to tell you, I very much wanted to use Houndour on my run until I did some research. Houndoom has no fire move until fire fang at lv 30. It has to use that, a 60 bp dark move that's also physical, and filler moves that aren't all that promising (No Dig or Poison Jab). All for quite a while (things spice up after the 6th gym).

Nasty Plot at lvl 1 was what was having me sold, but there's not much it can abuse until Anistar City where you can get flame thrower / fire blast tms. Snarl is available on the route before that I think, but that seems more like a move to spam on its own. And if I remember correctly, Dark Pulse isn't available until after being allowed to use waterfall. The TM availability is pretty inconvenient for a lot of pokemon.

Houndoom may not be as bad as I'm making it out to be though, I just think it will start to lag after the grass gym.

Just got my 4th badge. I'm currently using Stunky, Sawk, Gogoat, and Espeon. Stunky is completely wussy until it evolves, Skiddo/Gogoat just aren't great for gyms (Azure Bay and Route 13 are great for training though), and Espeon rips through many things (waiting for Psychic at 37)
.
I considered on picking up Mareep, since Ampharos is one of, if not, the only mega-evolutions that aren't tiered yet. Appearing in a horde is kind of a turn-off though, but I'll still think about it.

Edit: I did forget about sludge bomb for Houndoom, although that's pretty late game too if I remember correctly.

 

[MicfiJasan]

Just finished a dog run of X (Furfrou, Houndour, Snubbull, Mightyena), here are my thoughts:

Furfrou is already tiered, but I wouldn't be opposed to B, although the intimidate support I gave it might have been a little much. He just became super bulky with it that I'm probably biased.

Houndour (X): C-Tier
Availability: Route 10 in X only. Potentially before the second gym, although I wouldn't recommend him there.
Stats: 75/90/50/110/80/95, High Special Attack and Speed with usable attack and special bulk, although very frail physically. Evolves early, so stats are nice for that point in the game.
Movepool: Pretty dang shallow for a while. Relies entirely on physical moves by level up, the best special moves are all gotten pretty late via TM. He starts with Bite, which is pretty good for him, and gets Beat Up, which can be surprisingly effective with the right team, and Fire Fang pretty quickly. He only really gets Dark STABs after (Foul Play is nice if situational). He gets Fire Blast and Dark Pulse via TM for STAB, Sludge Bomb is also nice for Fairies. Nasty Plot is available either very late or by move relearner, and he can add in Thunder Fang through Heart Scale as well.
Major Battles:
Grant: No.
Korrina: No.
Ramos: Should have Fire Fang, destroys him.
Clemont: Not great, can potentially beat Magneton.
Valerie: Doesn't have Sludge Bomb yet, but can Fire Fang the Mawile and abuse Mr. Mime's weak defense.
Olympia: Great here, but must watch out for Slowking.
Wulfric: Great again, can sweep easily if you kept Fire Fang for Cryo (maybe even if you didn't)
Team Flare: Doesn't like Scraggy family and some Croagunk, and does pretty badly vs Lysandre, Pyroar being the closest thing to a good matchup.
Rivals: Get's Chesnaught if he's used and Meowstic. Can outspeed Absol if needed. Flash Fire also helps against Flareon.
Elite 4: Does alright vs Malva thanks to Flash Fire, and destroys Wikstrom minus Probopass.
Diantha: A decent enough answer for Mega Gardevoir, and destroys Gourgeist.
Additional Comments: Mine was -SpAtk nature, which sucked, but the was still only 2HKOing things that would nearly OHKO him back, and didn't have a great level up opportunity until Ramos's gym. The biggest problem I found was that I remember a lot of Black Belts and Battle Girls in the later caves which really stifles his level up opportunities outside of gyms. Maybe my time in caves was disproportionately long, but there's a lot of difficulties with patches of almost tutorial level stuff. His bulk also isn't quite enough to handle the mid-game with neutral physical moves, although Foul Play and Beat Up were surprisingly effective.

Snubbull: C/B Rank
Availability: Exact same spot as Houndour, evolves one level earlier and can actually be used in Grant's gym.
Stats: 90/120/75/60/60/45, high attack with decent physical bulk thanks to intimidate.
Movepool: Surprisingly wide. Gets bulldoze immediately and starts with Headbutt and Bite. Level up later gives it Play Rough at 43 and Crunch 59, even Outrage at 67 if you get that high. Can learn the elemental fangs with a Heart Scale and also gets Brick Break, Stone Edge, Dig, and Earthquake via TM. Fairy/Ground is great coverage in and of itself, and the extra coverage is generally a nice bonus.
Major Battles: Grant: Can Bulldoze if desperate, and can potentially be Granbull here.
Korrina: Can't hit super hard, but takes attacks pretty well.
Ramos: I let him take the back seat, but he's not at a huge disadvantage against anything but Weepinbell.
Clemont: Not great but can use Dig if absolutely necessary, has some speed and bulk problems though.
Valerie: Mirror match, and not much coverage help.
Olympia: Can Bite/Crunch here.
Wulfric: Can abuse Brick Break here to beat Cryo and Aboma, might be able to Fire Blast Avalugg as well (I avoided his low SpAtk though)
Flare: Great for everything not Poison-type, and can potentially even get away with some as the Poison STAB wasn't too prevelant from what I remember. Lysandre is alright, can beat Mienshao and Honchkrow easily, Pyroar can be killed if he doesn't kill first, Gyarados has Iron Head (argh) but the Mega can be beaten with some adjustments.
Rival: Can literally kill everything but Delphox with STABs, watch out for faster Special Attackers like Greninja.
Elite 4: Can potentially power through everything here. Play Rough destroys Drasna, Earthquake beats Wikstrom, EQ for Malva with Rock Slide for Talonflame. Siebold is hard, but he can Intimidate Gyarados to negate Dragon Dance, Crunch Starmie, and Earthquake Barbaracle. I don't remember exactly where I used him, but I used him a lot.
Champion: Can beat Hawlucha, Aurorus, Tyrantrum, Gourgeist, and Goodra with something, problems with Gardevoir though.
Additional Comments: Has a lot of good qualities (Fairy-type, early evo, massive attack, Intimidate) but his slowness really hurts it in the long run. He was supposed to be an easy answer to Fighting-types, but they all started running Poison Jab/Iron Head/Steel Wing(Hawlucha), which really sucked. His tiering is really a matter of how much that low speed hurts him, since everything else is pretty good.

Mightyena: E-Rank
Availability: Route 15, which is after Valerie because of Team Flare.
Stats: 70/90/70/60/60/70, pretty mediocre everywhere, has passable attack and bulk thanks to intimidate.
Movepool: Really freaking shallow, Assurance is the best for a while (not really abuseable though), and only gets Dig and Return for coverage. Sucker Punch is nice because of priority, but it's not exactly hitting like a truck. He does get Crunch by Heart Scale I guess (I always forget about those).
Major Battles: Olympia: Quite nice here, although you will need to find a way to level up somewhere.
Wulfric: No real advantages.
Team Flare: Nothing really stands out here, can dig against Electrike, Houndour, Swalot, and Croagunk, although the last one is kinda shaky. Lysandre is mostly bad, since Pyroar outspeeds and uses special attacks and he can't hit anything super effectively other than him.
Elite 4: Can beat Aegislash if you're lucky, and does alright against Chandelure I think. Pretty bad overall though.
Champion: Goureist is it I think.
Additional Comments: Not a lot to say here, he was mostly dead weight for most of the run, and comes pretty dang late. Intimidate was nice, but again, I got shit on by a -Atk nature so he couldn't take advantage of the hits he survived. Not complete F-Tier, but pretty darn close.


Also, I haven't seen any responses to my Binacle for B-Rank or Psyduck for D-Rank yet, so read my post (top of page 23, don't have time to link atm) for info.

 

[sickweare]

Just finished a dog run of X (Furfrou, Houndour, Snubbull, Mightyena), here are my thoughts:

Houndour (X): C-Tier
Availability: Route 10 in X only. Potentially before the second gym, although I wouldn't recommend him there.
Stats: 75/90/50/110/80/95, High Special Attack and Speed with usable attack and special bulk, although very frail physically. Evolves early, so stats are nice for that point in the game.
Movepool: Pretty dang shallow for a while. Relies entirely on physical moves by level up, the best special moves are all gotten pretty late via TM. He starts with Bite, which is pretty good for him, and gets Beat Up, which can be surprisingly effective with the right team, and Fire Fang pretty quickly. He only really gets Dark STABs after (Foul Play is nice if situational). He gets Fire Blast and Dark Pulse via TM for STAB, Sludge Bomb is also nice for Fairies. Nasty Plot is available either very late or by move relearner, and he can add in Thunder Fang through Heart Scale as well.
Major Battles:
Grant: No.
Korrina: No.
Ramos: Should have Fire Fang, destroys him.
Clemont: Not great, can potentially beat Magneton.
Valerie: Doesn't have Sludge Bomb yet, but can Fire Fang the Mawile and abuse Mr. Mime's weak defense.
Olympia: Great here, but must watch out for Slowking.
Wulfric: Great again, can sweep easily if you kept Fire Fang for Cryo (maybe even if you didn't)
Team Flare: Doesn't like Scraggy family and some Croagunk, and does pretty badly vs Lysandre, Pyroar being the closest thing to a good matchup.
Rivals: Get's Chesnaught if he's used and Meowstic. Can outspeed Absol if needed. Flash Fire also helps against Flareon.
Elite 4: Does alright vs Malva thanks to Flash Fire, and destroys Wikstrom minus Probopass.
Diantha: A decent enough answer for Mega Gardevoir, and destroys Gourgeist.
Additional Comments: Mine was -SpAtk nature, which sucked, but the was still only 2HKOing things that would nearly OHKO him back, and didn't have a great level up opportunity until Ramos's gym. The biggest problem I found was that I remember a lot of Black Belts and Battle Girls in the later caves which really stifles his level up opportunities outside of gyms. Maybe my time in caves was disproportionately long, but there's a lot of difficulties with patches of almost tutorial level stuff. His bulk also isn't quite enough to handle the mid-game with neutral physical moves, although Foul Play and Beat Up were surprisingly effective.

Tbh you make Houndour seem more of a B-tier mon. I didn't use it, but from what I know, Houndour has excellent matchups after Korinna. Every Gym leader will stumble somewhat against it, despite its reliance on physical moves for a while (its attack stat is more usable than you'd imagine). Clemont's Magneton and Heliolisk die to it (Heliolisk has dry skin), Valerie is alright as you take on Mawile well, and can kill Mr. Mime reliably. Olympia and Wulfric are, as stated, good matches for Houndoom, and it only has some problems with Team Flare, and Siebold. Other than that it looks like a particularly solid mon to use (way more solid than Electrike in Y -_-)

 

[DHR-107]

Just wanted to pop in and say I am just before the second gym on my latest game with a team of Quilladin, Tyrunt, Doduo, Butterfree, Wartortle and Inkay. Team is pretty solid atm, nothings really given me much trouble (Everything is about Lv 22ish on average). Doduo right now is a frikken nuke... Nothing is getting past being 2HKO'd by Return at this point, and its fast enough to outrun and smack the majority of things around.

Quilladin is pretty bulky which is nice, Leech Seed is surprisingly useful, and his movepool even early on is surprisingly diverse (Bite/Rollout). Wartortle is my go to mon for Hordes atm because it has Bubble which is now a direct upgrade of Water Gun. Butterfree isn't as good as Vivi atm, but still relatively solid, we'll see how its later game goes but as of now its certainly not lacking firepower. Inkay is really weak to start off when you catch it too... I'm not sold on its usage yet, but we will see later... Its very useful getting random def boosts from all the leer/tail whips though.

 

[Colonel M]

By the way I bought Y so please tell me what we should test out and I will use them in my team.

 

[Codraroll]

^Noone seems to have done a proper writeup on Weedle -> Beedrill yet. I've used it with moderate success, but only in a casual run through with six Pokémon, and it was boxed after the sixth gym or so. To me, it seems to hover between C and D somewhere, but it would be nice to get it evaluated properly.

 

[Colonel M]

I'm afraid I'm going to pass on Weedle. It isnt high in my priority list and it feels D material anyway (shit earlygame / Beedrill is mediocre).

 

[Lucchini]

Colonel M, try Meditite, Cubone (catch smth w/ Compoundeyes first so that you have a Thick Club) and maybe Clamperl. We could also use extra opinions on Furfrou (I should try him on my next run too), since he's being rated as high as B by some people.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Going to propose the following for instant tiering in the next update... Which I should definitely do within the next 48 hours... x_x

Ariados: N/A -> E-Tier
Banette: N/A -> E-Tier
Delibird: N/A -> E-Tier
Ekans: N/A -> E-Tier
Gligar: N/A -> E-Tier
Gothorita: N/A -> E-Tier
Illumise: N/A -> E-Tier
Liepard: N/A -> E-Tier
Mightyena: N/A -> E-Tier
Noctowl: N/A -> E-Tier
Phantump (w/o Trade): N/A -> F-Tier
Pumpkaboo (w/o Trade): N/A -> F-Tier
Spritzee (w/o Trade) [Y]: N/A -> E-Tier
Sudowoodo: N/A -> E-Tier
Swirlix (w/o Trade) [X]: N/A -> E-Tier
Vanillite: N/A -> E-Tier
Volbeat: N/A -> E-Tier

Basically I want to get some of the obvious ones who are terribly inefficient in-game out of the way & place them all into E (Barring trade-less Phantump & Pumpkaboo). All of these either have terrible stats, come late & have mediocre but workable stats, or can only be caught in hordes during the mountain phase of the game. One can argue for trade-less Spritzee & Swirlix for F-Tiering, & I will certainly leave that open, but mainly that comes down to how well they do gym three. I was considering placing up Sneasel for E because of its inability to evolve pre-e4 (Gligar cannot evolve either), but it does not look like it sucks that badly, so I have left it off for now.

If no one objects, these proposed Pokémon will go into the stated tiers next update, as well as some of the others already discussed.

 

[Lucchini]

Looks good. I'd even argue that most if not all of them could go to F tier, so that E is the middle ground between flawed Pokemon with deficiencies in availability, base stats, movepool and/or typing matchups (D, such as Skrelp) and Pokemon that are the least advisable for use (your recent list). Pokemon like Pidgey could occupy the said E tier with their all-around mediocrity.

 

[MicfiJasan]

Tbh you make Houndour seem more of a B-tier mon. I didn't use it, but from what I know, Houndour has excellent matchups after Korinna. Clemont's Magneton and Heliolisk die to it (Heliolisk has dry skin), and it only has some problems with Team Flare, and Siebold.

Yeah, I meant to slash B Tier in with Houndour, and I totally forgot Heliolisk had dry skin, so thanks.

However, Clemonte was still the hardest gym leader for me as a whole, since I could never 1 shot Magneton (I mean I had dig, but he still gets a turn to do something), and it would always set up Electric Terrain, meaning Heliolisk destroyed everything on my team but Furfrou, since he outsped Houndoom at that level. Granted, my memory is a little fuzzy of that fight, and I played on set instead of shift, which makes that fight ten times harder for Houndoom. Also, someone mentioned all the fighting trainers in the game. The sheer number of them combined with all the Team Flare fights made me feel like Houndoom was always a level or two behind (I'm a bit obsessive about even levels when I can). This combined with Houndooms usable but not abuse-able attack, and a general "meh" feeling I had when using him made me lean a bit towards C. I'd love more discussion on him though, since he is one of the cooler pokes ever imo.

That said, what is the objective definition of B tier/ C tier? I tended to be harsher on my reviews because I didn't want this to turn into one of those "oh this thing is cool: B-Tier" kind of lists. It certainly affects my view on anything with a slash in my reviews like Houndour. Currently I feel like my C-Tier is everyone else's B-Tier, so clarification could be nice.

Sorry f this is confusing, I'm on my phone right now.

 

[CopyKirby]

Its A Random (love that user name btw XD) Could you read my post about swalot/gulpin?