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Pokémon Pokébank changes discussion thread
- Thread starter Adonzo
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Uh, what tier do you expect furfrou in?
On another note, that toxic spikes line sounds really interesting. Ive been waiting for the koffing line to get more utility.
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 102-121 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 49-58 (13.8 - 16.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 51-61 (16.7 - 20%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Furfrou is tanky enough to soak SE hits from some of the heaviest offensive titans of 5th generation and takes physical hits better than Deoxys-D before a Cotton Guard. It doesn't have the supporting moveset to see much use in OU, but it can spread paralysis and poison, phaze with Roar, and basically come in on and at least force out virtually any physical attacker you'd care to name unless they've got Mold Breaker to bust through Fur Coat.
It probably won't be OU, but it stands to be a titanic physical wall in any tier below that.
The same could be said about things like regirock too, but both suffer from what I call lower tier wall syndrome. No reliable recovery and limited niches. My post was meant to basically state that furfrou and lopunny won't be that far apart in tier as a burn is infinitely more useful than tanking a couple of hits and shuffling (although fufrou is a much better bulky Pokemon and can actually switch in).
Edit: if you want to continue this discussion, we should do a conversation in order to not derail the thread.
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alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
To clarify, you can't take shiny HA Sinnoh starters online unless they're from Kalos.
Really excited for Toxic Spikes Cofagrigus. Even with the advent of Defog not being terrible, Cofagrigus is the only Toxic Spiker which is also a Spinblocker (Froslass can only use normal Spikes). Plus, it's a Spinblocker Excadrill can't wreck in a few turns and Cofagrigus can WillOWisp to shut Excadrill down too. I assume this will cause major 4MSS for Coffy but it will undoubtably rise in usage with Toxic Spikes.
Toxic Spikes Weezing might be cool in NU though.
Toxic Spikes Weezing might be cool in NU though.
Weezing will be RU at minimum with this addition. He already was a passable wall with a great ability, having access to pain split. He also has a good deal of special variety including electric, fire, and poison attacks, making him a fantastic candidate for AV, having fantastic defense and passable SpDef for RU. So he'll have a great utility and great tank set this gen for the lower tiers.
Edit: 1 weakness, 5 resists and 1 immunity. That's pretty solid.
Edit: 1 weakness, 5 resists and 1 immunity. That's pretty solid.
The thing with Weezing is that running Assault Vest would be a rather silly thing to do. It doesn't have the pure power to attack only, and it has pretty invaluable team options such as WillOWisp and Toxic Spikes now. Already Weezing struggles with only Pain Split and Leftovers/Black Sludge to regain health. Taking both of those away from him means he demands Wish support which can be inconvenient. Although Toxic Spikes is a nice addition though, it won't be enough to draw it out of NU-- take it from someone who's used Weezing for quite a while. It's a decent physical wall but it's still disappointing in many aspects.
Mismagius can make good use of SB+DG now though.
I was going to just let this slide last time, because to respond to it may be to stray off-topic, but if you're going to persist...
Entei getting Sacred Fire and the other dogs (and the other legendaries, for that matter) getting nothing new was not an act of favoritism, any more than Flareon getting Flare Blitz and the other eevelutions getting nothing special was favoritism. In fact, it's the exact same situation. Do me a favor and take a look at the Gen V non-event movepools of Suicune and Raikou; you'll notice that both are special attackers, and both have powerful STAB moves to work with, such as Surf, Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, and Thunder. Now do the same for Entei, keeping in mind that Entei is a physical attacker, and we find... Fire Fang. And fuck-all else. Now do the same for every other legendary Pokemon, and you'll find that they all have reasonably powerful STAB moves to work off their better attacking stat. Entei's incompetence with something so basic as STAB moves was unique among legendaries, that's why it got a new move and the others didn't.
"But Entei gets Flare Blitz!"
Yes, from a Gen IV event. Game Freak doesn't balance things with event moves in mind because they balance things for cartridge players, and the vast majority of cartridge players do not have access to event Pokemon. For that majority, Entei's movepool has been a quarter-assed sack of crap since its conception - Entei getting physical STAB in its level-up movepool is just Game Freak rectifying that. As for it getting Sacred Fire instead of Flare Blitz... idfk, I think there's some lore justification, but I don't think this is the thread for discussing it.
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And now, on to more on-topic things: Does this thread also encompass the changes that were known about pre-Bank due to the Pokedex guidebook, such as Drill Run Escavalier? If so, then those should be added to the OP as well.
The Techno Blast boost is nice, its no longer strictly worse than Genesect's other moves, but I still can't see the move being worth essentially not having an item. Maybe Water Techno Blast could be usable, since it so thoroughly skunks HP Water now, but I'm just not seeing any application that isn't better served by another move that lets him keep his item.
Sucker Punch will be a great new tool for Emboar; with a speed stat that low, any non-Quick Attack priority is welcome, especially one as strong as Sucker Punch. And it's immune to Will-o-Wisp, so that's one less non-attacking move for it to worry about when compared to a lot of the move's other users. Hammer Arm might be more viable over Superpower on Emboar as well, now that he has a way to bypass the Speed drops. It still probably won't be OU, but it may move up a tier at least.
Cresselia getting Moonblast is cool, I suppose, but it won't really help her deal with pursuit users in OU, and no STAB really doesn't help with her underwhelming attacking stats. Maybe on a Calm Mind monoattacking set over Ice Beam for a slightly more powerful attack? Hey, it's a nicer addition than TechnoBlastboost, anyways.
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Could even do a Nasty Plot/Hex/Dazzling Gleam/Will O Wisp set for added utility and/or sweeping.
If you have any discoveries, please be sure to post them in the relevant research thread!
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/research.251/
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/research.251/
Now that the best I could come up with is a 31/x/31/31/30/31 Female Snivy (damn gender ratios) I'll be looking for random Egg moves.
Here's hoping.
I might test Extremespeed to see if it gets it, lol.
Edit: It does not get Extremespeed, Aura Sphere, Quick Attack, Baby-Doll Eyes, or Petal Blizzard.
Laaaaame.
Here's hoping.
I might test Extremespeed to see if it gets it, lol.
Edit: It does not get Extremespeed, Aura Sphere, Quick Attack, Baby-Doll Eyes, or Petal Blizzard.
Laaaaame.
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AV Jellicent anyone? Yes, I can run Scald/Ice Beam/Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball; Is relevant I guess, walls the shit of pokemons w/ AV. I mean it can still be viable w/ AV unlike Blissey, which might make it better, Scald can burn so no need for WoW, it might be losing Recover/Pain Split, but it's still pretty surprising ...
And Sucker Punch Emboar? Hell yeah, now I can use Hammer Arm instead of Superpower ...
And Sucker Punch Emboar? Hell yeah, now I can use Hammer Arm instead of Superpower ...
Boomburst from Exploud?
It had Hammer Arm to begin with?
And what 4MSS? Just do Hammer Arm/Flare Blitz/Sucker Punch/Wild Charge.
Head Smash is to powerful not to at least consider, especially if Emboar gets Reckless, which outdamages Hammer Arm.
As does Leavanny.
Empoleon does not get roost again....
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