Other Stall

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CyclicCompound

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So, what do we do about Manaphy? I'm completely at a loss on how to handle this thing now that they let it out of Ubers.
Mega Venusaur all the way.

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 130-154 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 192-228 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
 
So, what do we do about Manaphy? I'm completely at a loss on how to handle this thing now that they let it out of Ubers.
Mega Venusaur hard counters it.

As for other ways to deal with it, CB Talonflame can revenge kill, as can Scarfers such as Genesect and Rotom-W. Faster Pokemon such as Noivern and Latios can also revenge kill somewhat easily. Chansey avoids being 2HKOed by a +6 Surf (most of the time) as long as Manaphy is not LO, and both Chansey and Blissey can wall a +3 Manaphy and Toxic it.
 
If they do that they end up getting walled by a lot more than just Mega Venusaur.
248 HP / 0 SDef Rotom-W takes a minimum of 57.7% maxHP from 252 SAtk Manaphy's +3 Psychic. 252 HP / 0 SDef Jellicent takes 48.5% minimum from +3 Psychic. It's not too hard to play around the loss of coverage.
 
248 HP / 0 SDef Rotom-W takes a minimum of 57.7% maxHP from 252 SAtk Manaphy's +3 Psychic. 252 HP / 0 SDef Jellicent takes 48.5% minimum from +3 Psychic. It's not too hard to play around the loss of coverage.
In exchange, Rotom-W can OHKO you and Jellicent can Toxic you and Recover off damage.

Gastrodon, bulky Starmie, Empoleon (people use it for Defog), Milotic (Dragon Tail), AV Azumarill, and some other Water-types I don't recall defeat Manaphy as well without Energy Ball. Even Crawdaunt if you want to stoop that low.
 

CyclicCompound

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248 HP / 0 SDef Rotom-W takes a minimum of 57.7% maxHP from 252 SAtk Manaphy's +3 Psychic. 252 HP / 0 SDef Jellicent takes 48.5% minimum from +3 Psychic. It's not too hard to play around the loss of coverage.
Most Jellicent you'll find on a stall team are Specially Defensive, in which case:

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 78.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In short, Jellicent can simply Toxic and Recover-stall Manaphy to death. Bonus points if the Jellicent's running Cursed Body and disables Psychic (lol).
Gastrodon, the other major stall target of Energy Ball, will find itself in the exact same situation as Jellicent. Rotom-W isn't that relevant in Stall for the most part.

EDIT: Greninja'd.
 
In exchange, Rotom-W can OHKO you and Jellicent can Toxic you and Recover off damage.
You're obviously supposed to wait until Rotom-W has >70% maxHP with SR up until you set up Manaphy on some other Pokemon. Getting Rotom-W that low isn't difficult at all.

I assumed physically defensive Jellicent since it's what I use, but yes, specially defensive Jellicent is a stop. Anyone running Psychic on Manaphy will be firing off unboosted attacks (perhaps with other Pokemon) to discern the EV spread before attempting a sweep.

Gastrodon, bulky Starmie, Empoleon (people use it for Defog), Milotic (Dragon Tail), AV Azumarill, and some other Water-types I don't recall defeat Manaphy as well without Energy Ball. Even Crawdaunt if you want to stoop that low.
252 HP / 0 SDef Gastrodon takes a minimum of 56.5% from a +3 Tail Glow. Again, not too hard to get it at low enough health for a sweep if you've burned it with your Rotom-W or done something similar.

Save for specially defensive Gastrodon/Jellicent and bulky Starmie, the other Pokemon you mention aren't remotely threatening as stall Pokemon (or general Pokemon) in this metagame. A well-constructed team should have sufficient firepower to take care of those Pokemon in place of Manaphy.

Psychic isn't necessarily better than Energy Ball in all cases--the better option obviously depends on who Manaphy's teammates are. What I am arguing is that because Psychic may well be the better option for many Manaphy teams, stall players may not find Mega Venusaur to be as reliable an answer to Manaphy as they would like.
 

CyclicCompound

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You're obviously supposed to wait until Rotom-W has >70% maxHP with SR up until you set up Manaphy on some other Pokemon. Getting Rotom-W that low isn't difficult at all.

I assumed physically defensive Jellicent since it's what I use, but yes, specially defensive Jellicent is a stop. Anyone running Psychic on Manaphy will be firing off unboosted attacks (perhaps with other Pokemon) to discern the EV spread before attempting a sweep.



252 HP / 0 SDef Gastrodon takes a minimum of 56.5% from a +3 Tail Glow. Again, not too hard to get it at low enough health for a sweep if you've burned it with your Rotom-W or done something similar.

Save for specially defensive Gastrodon/Jellicent and bulky Starmie, the other Pokemon you mention aren't remotely threatening as stall Pokemon (or general Pokemon) in this metagame. A well-constructed team should have sufficient firepower to take care of those Pokemon in place of Manaphy.

Psychic isn't necessarily better than Energy Ball in all cases--the better option obviously depends on who Manaphy's teammates are. What I am arguing is that because Psychic may well be the better option for many Manaphy teams, stall players may not find Mega Venusaur to be as reliable an answer to Manaphy as they would like.
According to IRC's TIBot, 2.620% of Manaphy carry Psychic in OU.

Is it worth relying on Mega Venusaur to counter 39 out of every 40 Manaphy? Yes.

As a side comparison, just because Volcarona's capable of running Hidden Power Ground doesn't mean Heatran isn't a good answer to it.
 
Would it be worth it to run MegaVenasaur as a dedicated special wall? I'm hesitant at its spotty recovery and array of weaknesses over, say, Blissy; in addition to the glaring lack of bulk on the first turn it switches into play.

Another idea I was thinking for stopping Manaphy, and setup sweepers in general that lack priority, was Mega-Banette. If you are slower than the opposing sweeper you can abuse priority Destiny Bond to allow you to get in an attack for free against whatever they have in play on the turns that you attack normally. Either they are forced to switch out, or their sweeper kills itself killing Mega-Banette.
 
Here's a stall team with MegaAlakazam and bulky Hydreigon that I just finished laddering with for the night, I went 28-12-0 and got up to 1867 for what its worth.

The team is overprepared for Talonflames and voltturn teams and instead I ran into tons of conkeldurs and lucarios. It was fun as hell playing with it because Zam's trace is hella trolly, there are two ancient power users which have caused a few rage quits, two SR users and 1 spikes user, a spinner, heatran has double STAB magma storm and lava plume, and if Rotom-W is anti-meta then Cradily is anti-anti-meta.

It might seem like some kind of bulky offense team but seriously 4 members have reliable recovery. Plus hazard control and a taunter. Stall fo sho. After 40 games I realize what the weaknesses are (mainly fighting STABs, Landorus-I, and Greninja) so improvements are sure to come someday.

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover

Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Energy Ball
- Ancient Power

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 52 SAtk / 4 SDef / 208 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Magma Storm

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 SDef
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 80 SAtk / 192 Spd
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Roost
  • Zam outspeeds Noivern after megaevolving and has 446 SpAtk that just chunks everything for great damage. He survives many hits because of magic guard -> trace, the HP EVs, and base 95 SpD.
  • Cradily counters Talonflame, walls Rotom-W, sets up rocks, and limits hydro pump / surf spam
  • Scarf Excadrill with SR/spin/EQ/IronHead for all kinds of clutch plays
  • Heatran outspeeds base 71s (MegaTar, Tyrantrum, and base 70s like Breloom, Politoed, Cloyster, Metagross) and can finish them off when needed. MagmaStorm can 2hko things and is delicious if you trapped their spinner or defogger. He also outspeeds about half of Landorus-Ts if you know your damage calcs.
  • Skarm is Skarm. I'm not exactly sure what the nature and EVs are doing. Never use defog on skarm it needs all of its other moves more imo.
  • Bulky hydreigon. Dark pulse chunks plenty of things, flamethrower because you need that move when you barely outspeed un-mega'd-Lucario, and he also has clutch roost to save games. Crucial ghost resist and can also switch in to any Rotom-W
  • Every attacking move is 100% accurate except for (BAN ME PLEASE)'s magma storm
Here's three replays if you want to check out Alakazam bein' a boss. The first replay is against another stall team with an extremely troublesome bulky defog zapdos, but a sneaky taunt eventually paved the way to victory. The second replay has a pesky megalucario but bulky hydreigon has a surprise in store. The third replay shows just how devastating hazards become and I learned that +2 Zam Dazzling Gleam is enough for Tyranitar but not enough for MegaTar or AssaultVest Tar.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-72980771
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-72982371
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-72967024
 
Most Jellicent you'll find on a stall team are Specially Defensive, in which case:

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 78.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In short, Jellicent can simply Toxic and Recover-stall Manaphy to death. Bonus points if the Jellicent's running Cursed Body and disables Psychic (lol).
Gastrodon, the other major stall target of Energy Ball, will find itself in the exact same situation as Jellicent. Rotom-W isn't that relevant in Stall for the most part.

EDIT: Greninja'd.
Why do you think they'd spam Psychic rather than just getting to +6 and 2HKOing you?!?
 
Why do you think they'd spam Psychic rather than just getting to +6 and 2HKOing you?!?
Toxic is a wonderful move, especially for stall.

Manaphy can't break stall as well if Toxiced. You can just switch to your Chansey and keep recovering off +6 Surfs. Or switch around to minimize damage.
 

Bedschibaer

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The thing with running psychic instead of Ice Beam is that you hit msaur harder, while missing out on hitting things like Celebi and other grasses super effectively. And getting past the blobs will be a problem anyways, no matter what coverage you run
 

CyclicCompound

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Tactical said:
Would it be worth it to run MegaVenasaur as a dedicated special wall?
Yes.

I'm hesitant at its spotty recovery and array of weaknesses over, say, Blissy
With the massive popularity drop in weather, Synthesis and Giga Drain is fine to get you through a match. Wish support is nice in tough situations, but you won't usually need it. And as for your "array of weaknesses", it only consists of Flying and Psychic. Acceptable trade-off for resisting Electric, Grass, Water, Fighting, and Fairy-type moves? Most definitely.

in addition to the glaring lack of bulk on the first turn it switches into play.
There are enough Rotom-Ws, Greninja, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Azumarill, Trevenant, and Gyarados (all taken from the top 20 most used OU pokemon) out there for Mega Venusaur to evolve. Besides, your "glaring lack of bulk" refers to 80/83/100 defenses, which, keep in mind, are fully invested. Not glaringly lacking at all.

Another idea I was thinking for stopping Manaphy, and setup sweepers in general that lack priority, was Mega-Banette. If you are slower than the opposing sweeper you can abuse priority Destiny Bond to allow you to get in an attack for free against whatever they have in play on the turns that you attack normally. Either they are forced to switch out, or their sweeper kills itself killing Mega-Banette.
I'm of the personal opinion that Destiny Bond is waaaay too easy to play around if the opponent knows what they're doing. Even if you have Destiny Bond AND Taunt, you need to:
a) Destiny Bond on the first turn, to make sure your opponent doesn't kill you right off the bat.
b) If the opponent knows what you're doing, they'll simply go for another Tail Glow when M-Banette uses Destiny Bond, so you have to use Taunt on the next turn.
c) But if they know you'll use Taunt, they'll just attack the turn you use Taunt. But if you use Destiny Bond when they attempt to boost up, you'll run out of PP.

So the two outcomes are a) you lose your Pokemon, and probably the rest of the battle, or b) both Pokemon die.
Conclusion: M-Banette is not a good counter for Manaphy or other setup sweepers, and especially not for Stall gameplay.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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Oh I would never ever run Psychic over Ice Beam. I would use it over Energy Ball. Realistically, Energy Ball is just for Rotom-W and Quagsire (unrealistically it's for Gastrodon as well, but really, who runs that?). Rotom-W is 2HKOed by +3 Psychic anyway, and Surf can 2HKO Quagsire with just one layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock (DEFINITELY not hard to get with the deo formes back in OU). But without Ice Beam you miss out on hitting all the Dragons and such, as well as Celebi and other bulky grass types. No, I would definitely rather forego Energy Ball than Ice Beam.
 
Keep in mind that stall teams often run a Scarfer or fast mon, because they will need it to clean up or revenge kill. It's not that hard to revenge kill Manaphy, especially if your team has already weakened it a bit.

Also Rotom-W demolishes Manaphy with Electric-type moves, people do run Gastrodon (for Rotom-W), specially defensive Jellicent exist, etc. If you're running Manaphy chances are you have a way around Mega Venusaur anyways.
 
Toxic is a wonderful move, especially for stall.

Manaphy can't break stall as well if Toxiced. You can just switch to your Chansey and keep recovering off +6 Surfs. Or switch around to minimize damage.
Well that's a very different claim to the one you made: "In short, Jellicent can simply Toxic and Recover-stall Manaphy to death. Bonus points if the Jellicent's running Cursed Body and disables Psychic (lol). Gastrodon, the other major stall target of Energy Ball, will find itself in the exact same situation as Jellicent. Rotom-W isn't that relevant in Stall for the most part."

You claimed Gastrodon and Jellicent wall it which they obviously don't, no mention of Chansey. Of course Chansey walls Manaphy but it can't switch in on +6 Surf, it's a guaranteed 2HKO after stealth rock.
 
Well that's a very different claim to the one you made: "In short, Jellicent can simply Toxic and Recover-stall Manaphy to death. Bonus points if the Jellicent's running Cursed Body and disables Psychic (lol). Gastrodon, the other major stall target of Energy Ball, will find itself in the exact same situation as Jellicent. Rotom-W isn't that relevant in Stall for the most part."

You claimed Gastrodon and Jellicent wall it which they obviously don't, no mention of Chansey. Of course Chansey walls Manaphy but it can't switch in on +6 Surf, it's a guaranteed 2HKO after stealth rock.
You are missing the fact that it takes two Tail Glows to get to +6, so Jellicent has a turn to switch in and then Toxic, while Manaphy is setting up. It can then spam Recover for a couple turns, and if it dies it goes to the priority user or Scarfer or pink blob on that particular team.

Gastrodon can do pretty much the same thing. Rotom-W can be used on stall sometimes too, it's a good momentum grabber and has good defenses.

I mentioned Chansey a long while ago. If you let Manaphy get to +6 for free you did something REALLY wrong lol.
 
IMO, the best way to beat TG Manaphy without Chansey is by far Unaware Clefable. I won't bother to expound upon this
 
Yes.
I'm of the personal opinion that Destiny Bond is waaaay too easy to play around if the opponent knows what they're doing. Even if you have Destiny Bond AND Taunt, you need to:
a) Destiny Bond on the first turn, to make sure your opponent doesn't kill you right off the bat.
b) If the opponent knows what you're doing, they'll simply go for another Tail Glow when M-Banette uses Destiny Bond, so you have to use Taunt on the next turn.
c) But if they know you'll use Taunt, they'll just attack the turn you use Taunt. But if you use Destiny Bond when they attempt to boost up, you'll run out of PP.

So the two outcomes are a) you lose your Pokemon, and probably the rest of the battle, or b) both Pokemon die.
Conclusion: M-Banette is not a good counter for Manaphy or other setup sweepers, and especially not for Stall gameplay.
The good thing is, Meganette doesn't actually have to play around prediction and Taunt versus boosting turns at all. Thanks to the unique combination of low base speed and Prankster Destiny Bond, it allows for Meganette to essentially benefit from DB for two turns. As it will be acting first on the first turn, and second on the second turn, repeating after that, making it very easy to get in brutal 165 stat attacks without there actually being a gap for your opponent to attack you, barring them being faster and having priority as well.

This allows for sweeps of things like +6 Manaphy in the Rain, which even Blissy can't Soft-boiled off every turn to be ended without your opponent being able to do anything more than kill the Banette at the cost of the sweeper that would, otherwise, have broken your team. Priority Taunt only sweetens the deal as it allows for Banette to be largely immune to pokemon that would Toxic it to avoid its catch 22.

I've been running it to great success, I jut wish it had a nice fighting attack to abuse. Focus Punch would break it.
 
I've been spending a lot of time working on/playing various stall teams that I've found, and after a lot of work I've begun to develop a list of Pokemon viable for stall in OU, please let me know if I've missed anything. I plan on periodically revisiting this post to offer some general analysis on all the pokemon listed here, along with the sort of things stall teams enjoy.

This list is rather long at the moment, and I'll probably end up shortening the 'Wall' section while expanding the Utility and Pivot sections. Eventually I'll also break down the 'summaries' list.

Crucial Things Stall Enjoys:
-Status
-Aromatherapy support
-Defog support
-Reliable recovery
-Phazing
-Scouting
-Resists/Immunities
-Strong Defensive Cores, generally with complimenting types like F/W/G or Steel/Fairy or Steel/Dragon

-Skarmory
-Mega-Scizor
-Ferrothorn
-Slowbro
-Hippowdon
-Chestnaught
-Quagsire
-Clefable
-Tangrowth
-Cofagagrius
-Hippowdon
-Gourgeist
-(Mega-Aron)

-Chansey/Blissey
-Sylveon/Florges
-Goodra (w/ rain support)
-Dragalge
-Slowking
-Latias
-Milotic
-(Tentacruel)

-Mega-Venusaur
-Mandibuzz
-Heatran
-Rotom-W/H
-Amoongus
-Jellicent
-Deoxys-D
-Cressalia
-Suicune
-Gyarados
-(Dusclops)

-Tornadus-T
-Thundurus-I
-Sableye
-Crobat
-(Klefki)

-Ditto: Can turn a team's momentum against itself w/ Imposter
-Quagsire: Unaware + Stockpile/Yawn let it counter set up sweepers.
-Cofagrigus: Mummy shuts down a lot of physical attackers like Pokemon with sheer force or Huge Power.

-Aegislash
-Amoongus
-Heatran
-Jellicent


-Chesnaught
-Gourgeist
-Mega-Venusaur
-Tangrowth
-Amoongus
-Ferrothorn

-Rotom-W
-Slowbro
-Slowking
-Milotic
-Tentacruel
-Jellicent
-Suicune
-Quagsire

-Heatran
-Rotom-H (please help with this one :/)

-Jellicent
-Gourgeist
-Aegislash
-Cofagrigus
-Sableye

-Skarmory
-Ferrothorn
-Mega-Scizor
-Heatran
-Aegislash

-Goodra
-Dragalge
-Latias

-Dragalge
-Amoongus
-Mega-Venusaur
-Crobat

Quagsire-Togekiss
Chesnaught-Rotom-H
Heatran-Mega-Venusaur
Skarmory-Goodra
Jellicent-Heatran

Skarmory:
Movepool:
-Defog, Spikes, Taunt, Whirlwind, Brave Bird, Roost)
Pros:
-Reliable recovery
-Defog
-Can Phaze
-Fantastic defensive typing
-Immune to Toxic
-Very high defense
-Has some offensive presence
-Sturdy
Cons:
-Can't take special hits.

Weaknesses: Fire, Electric
Immunities: Poison, Ground
Resists: Fairy, Bug, Steel, Grass, Psychic,

Notable Counters: Most physical attackers, Mega-Pinsir, Garchomp, Toxic-Stallers, Specially defensive Fairies.
Pairs well with: Goodra, Blissey/Chansey, Sylveon/Florges, Quagsire, Dragalge

Mandibuzz:
Movepool:
-Knock Off, Foul Play, Taunt, Toxic, Whirlwind, Defog, Roost
Pros:
-Movepool offers a lot of utility
-Reliable recovery
-Defog
-Can Phaze
-Very bulky
-Can punish pokemon that set up w/ STAB foul play
-Crucial Dark/Ghost resistances
-Overcoat
Cons:
-Bad against Fairys
-SR weakness
-Weak to common attacking types

Weaknesses: Rock, Electric, Fairy, Ice
Immunities: Ground, Psychic
Resistances: Ghost, Dark, Grass

Notable Counters: Physical set-up sweeps who can't OHKO him, many physical attackers, anything which can't take Foul Play, Aegislash
Pairs well with: Quagsire, Hippowdon, Slowking (suggestions for this would help greatly), Jellicent, Aegislash

Jellicent:
Movepool:
-Toxic, WoW, Recover, Pain Split, Taunt, Scald, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam
Pros:
-Movepool offers immense coverage options and status support.
-Reliable Recovery
-Fantastic ability and good defensive typing make it an effective pivot.
-Great special bulk.
-Can counter Mega-Lucario not running dark-type moves.
-WoW
-A great spinblocker
Cons:
-Steel nerf means Ghost typing is a little riskier this gen
-Unimpressive physical bulk

Weaknesses: Ghost, Dark, Grass, Electric
Immunities: Water, Fighting, Normal
Resistances: Steel, Bug, Ice, Poison, Fire

Notable Counters: Physical attackers which fear burn, most water-types, Special attackers without STAB SE attacks
Pair with: Heatran, Chesnaught, Dragalge, Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn, Blissey/Chansey, Fairies

[No Sprite :(] Chesnaught:
Movepool:
-Spiky Shield, Spikes, Leech Seed, Pain Split, Synthesis, Bulk Up, Earthquake, Substitute, Toxic, Roar
Pros:
-Immense movepool with fantastic utility and coverage options
-Reliable Recovery
-Typing gives it some crucial resists
-Bulletproof
-Great Scout
-One of the best Spike layers
-Often underestimated
-Immune to spore moves
Cons:
-Poor attack (uninvested Chesnaught's Hammer arm can't OHKO mega Tyranitar)
-Awful special bulk
-4MSS
-Many weaknesses
-More vulnerable to status than other stall mons

Weaknesses: Flying(4x), Poison, Fairy, Ice, Fire, Psychic
Resists: Dark, Earth, Rock, Water, Grass, Electric

Counters: Grass types, Physical T-tar, Gengar (don't get cocky), Physical attackers, non-toxic Gliscor
Pair with: Heatran, Slowbro, Jellicent, Aegislash, Chansey/Blissey, Rotom-H

Quagsire:
Movepool:
-Yawn, Toxic, Encore, Stockpile, Recover, Scald, Earthquake, Haze
Pros:
-Reliable Recovery
-Can Force switches
-Decent physical bulk
-One weakness, decent resistances
-Unaware
-Sponges T-waves all day
Cons:
-Special bulk is terrible, physical bulk isn't the best
-Almost complete lack of offensive presence beyond fear of scald burns
-Does not enjoy being switched into attacks

Weaknesses: Grass (4x)
Immunities: Electric
Resists: Rock, Steel, Fire, Poison

Counters: Heatran, Set-up sweepers, physical attackers, physical Genesect
Pair with: Fairies, Skarmory, Chansey/Blissey, Rotom-H, Gyarados

[No Sprite :(] Dragalge:
Movepool:
-Rest, Sleep Talk, Toxic Spikes, Dragon Tail, Haze
Pros:
-Absorbs toxic spikes
-Absorbs status
-Tanks special hits
-Poison Touch + Dragon Tail
-Possibly the best setter of Toxic Spikes
-Good defensive typing
Cons:
-Can only run one set well
-Can do nothing to steel and poison types, ineffectual against Flying/Levitate.

Weaknesses: Ice, Earth, Dragon, Psychic
Resistances: Electric, Grass, Bug, Poison, Fire, Fighting

Counters: Volcarona, Status Inducers, Special attackers
Pair With: Rotom-W, Jellicent, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Slowbro

Slowbro:
Movepool:
-Yawn, Slack Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Scald, Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Trick, Calm mind
Pros:
-Reliable recovery
-Regenerator
-Fantastic physical bulk
-Typing grants it crucial Ice and Fighting resists
-Really I can't stress its bulk enough
-Assault Vest is viable
Cons:
-Psychic is a poor defensive typing

Weaknesses: Electric, Grass, Bug, Dark, Ghost
Resists: Water, Fire, Ice, Steel, Psychic, Fighting

Counters: Nearly all physical threats, Talonflame, Mixed threats (if wearing assault vest)
Pair With: Chesnaught, Heatran, Amoongus, Mega-Venusaur, Goodra, Hippowdon, Blissey/Chansey

Slowking:
Movepool:
-Yawn, Slack Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Scald, Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Trick, Calm mind
Pros:
-Reliable recovery
-Regenerator
-Fantastic Physical bulk
-Typing grants it crucial Ice and Fighting resists
-Runs assault vest very well
Cons:
-Overshadowed by Jellicent unless running assault vest
-Slowbro has the same typing and is generally more useful

Weaknesses: Electric, Grass, Bug, Dark, Ghost
Resists: Water, Fire, Ice, Steel, Psychic, Fighting

Counters: Special threats
Pairs with: Chesnaught, Heatran, Amoongus, Mega-Venusaur, Goodra, Hippowdon

[Seriously guys link me to some sprites] Sylveon/Florges:
Movepool:
-Wish, Protect, Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, Hyper Voice/Moonblast, Psyshock/Energyball, Toxic, Yawn (Sylveon only)
Pros:
-Reliable recovery/wish passing
-Fantastic special bulk
-Some offensive presence (especially Florges)
-Clerics
-Good defensive typing
Cons:
-Blissey/Chansey mostly do their job better
-Pitiful physical defense
-Their fanboys are really annoying considering they're basically the same pokemon
-Bad abilities

Weaknesses: Poison, Steel
Immunities: Dragon
Resists: Bug, Fighting, Dark

Counters: Special threats
Pairs with: Steel types, Quagsire, Jellicent

/
Blissey/Chansey:
Movepool:
-Softboiled, Wish, Aromatherapy, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, Stealth Rock, Flamethrower
Pros:
-Reliable Recovery/Wish Passing
-Best special walls in the game
-Clerics
-Natural Cure
-Sponge Status
-Stealth Rock
Cons:
-Little/Predictable offensive presence

Weaknesses: Fighting
Immunites: Ghosts

Counters: ALL special threats, weak physical threats, stall pokemon which can't take status
Pairs with: Physical tanks, Skarmory, Gourgeist, Jellicent, Aegislash

Hippowdon:
Movepool:
-Slack Off, Whirlwind, Earthquake, Ice Fang, Stone Edge, Toxic, Stealth Rock
Pros:
-Reliable recovery
-Good Phazer
-Has offensive presence
-One of the best Physical walls out there
-Typing provides unique synergy with some mons
-Don't let the number of cons psyche you out, he's very good.
Cons:
-Abilities are generally useless unless running sand stall
-Very poor special bulk
-Typing provides some crucial weaknesses

Weaknesses: Ice, Water, Grass
Immunities: Electric
Resists: Rock, Poison

Counters: Physical threats it isn't weak to
Pairs with: Gyarados, Tentacruel, Blissey

Gyarados:
Movepool:
-Roar, Dragon Tail, Waterfall, Rest, Sleep Talk, Taunt, Substitute
Pros:
-Intimidate
-Good special bulk
-One of the best answers to Lucario.
-Offensive presence
-Good defensive typing
-Great phazer
Cons:
-Rotom bait
-Sleep Talk is the only truly viable set in stall
-SR weak

Weaknesses: Electric(4x), Rock
Immunities: Ground
Resistances: Fighting, Bug, Steel, Water, Fire

Counters: Lucario, Set-up sweepers, special attackers not carrying Electric moves
Pairs with: Chesnaught, Tangrowth, Gourgeist, Heatran, Umbreon (sponges volt-switch all day, and synchronize punishes WoW), Hippowdon

Mega Venusaur:
Movepool:
-Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Sludge Bomb, Earthquake, Roar, Synthesis, Knock Off, Sleep Powder
Pros:
-Thick Fat
-Multiple sources of recovery
-Phazer
-A Defensive Monster
-Immune to spores and toxic
-Large movepool
-Partners with nearly anything
-Great Rotom counter
Cons:
-Can't do much against Grass types unless it makes room for Sludge Bomb
-Needs a safe switch-in to mega-evolve

Weaknesses: Psychic, Flying
Resists: Electric, Water, Fighting, Grass, Fairy

Counters: Nearly everything not carrying Psychic or Flying attacks
Pairs with: Nearly everything that's not a grass type, Heatran, Umbreon, Slowbro, etc.

Amoongus:
 
Last edited:
rrr
Crucial Things Stall Enjoys:
-Status
-Aromatherapy support
-Defog support
-Reliable recovery
-Phazing
-Scouting
-Strong Defensive Cores, generally with complimenting types like F/W/G or Steel/Fairy or Steel/Dragon
Love this and that you took the time to do this. I do find a problem with Defog when I run it though - If I'm running my own hazards, Defog becomes helpful for the other team as well, and likely more helpful to them than it is to me, so I actually think Rapid Spin is still a better option for stall teams that run a lot of hazards.

And could you explain Amoongus as a pivot to me? I really want to try it but I can't figure out a good set to run on him, and he's countered me so many times...
 
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