Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Wizarus]

Nominating Wobbuffet for B+

Even with the ghost buff prevent Shadow Tag, there are more pokemon now than previous generations who appreciate free switch ins and free turns to set-up, remove hazards, or recover. Using Wobbuffet is probably the safest way to mega-evolve in the game. Special moves nerf and weather nerf makes revenge killing easier then last generation. Custap Berry not being out is unfortunate, but it still has Safeguard, which is extremely useful with Burn being so common right now.

 

[Laurel]

Mega Gardevoir needs to be A rank. It's the best fairy besides Azumarill. Psychic Fairy stab is way too good. The only reason its not A+ is for Bisharp.

 

[Josh Morales]

No we're not. M-Venusaur is extremely overhyped and requires a massive amount of support to be useful. It auto-loses against anything with Taunt, its offensive options are resisted by everything and their mother, it's extremely vulnerable to passive damage from hazards and burn, it's Talonflame/M-Pinsir/Kyurem-B bait and it's outright horrendous against Substitute users in general.
The Megasaur defense force needs to stop looking at it with rose-tinted lens because it's a seriously flawed pokemon and it's not even close to the other S-rank pokemon.
A rank is where it belongs, not any higher. Let's end this pointless circlejerk.

Reading this burnt my eyes so badly I almost went blind, Christ.

To this day it still shocks me how ignorant and stubborn people can be when arguing in forums. And that's after over 1000 posts in the forums of another game, it still shocks me.

 

[Laurel]

Oh and Goodra is bad it has a good movepool but it doesnt fit in the OU metagame... It is too physical.

Mega Heracross can ohko everything on stall teams bar SKarmory but does suffer 5mss.

Mega Garchomp should be A+ it is missing from the list. Sand Force is strong.

Mega Hera -> B+
Goodra -> B
Mega Garchomp -> A+

 

[Monte Cristo]

Oh and Goodra is bad it has a good movepool but it doesnt fit in the OU metagame... It is too physical.

Mega Heracross can ohko everything on stall teams bar SKarmory but does suffer 5mss.

Mega Hera -> B+
Goodra -> B

I wish there was a dislike button on smogon, just so I don't have to right paragraph about how people are so ignorant sometimes.

 

[6feetunder]

Mega Gardevoir needs to be A rank. It's the best fairy besides Azumarill. Psychic Fairy stab is way too good. The only reason its not A+ is for Bisharp.

A rank is too high. It has more issues than just Bisharp. It's physically frail, weak to common priority, and really wishes it were faster than base 100 speed.

Oh and Goodra is bad it has a good movepool but it doesnt fit in the OU metagame... It is too physical.

Mega Heracross can ohko everything on stall teams bar SKarmory but does suffer 5mss.

Mega Hera -> B+
Goodra -> B

What?

 

[Sylphnir]

Poor MHeracross. Even with five moveslots it wouldn't be able to compete.

 

[Vert]

Oh and Goodra is bad it has a good movepool but it doesnt fit in the OU metagame... It is too physical.

Mega Heracross can ohko everything on stall teams bar SKarmory but does suffer 5mss.

Mega Garchomp should be A+ it is missing from the list. Sand Force is strong.

Mega Hera -> B+
Goodra -> B
Mega Garchomp -> A+

Mega Herracross has been discussed on its rank. Mega Garchomp is good wall-breaker, but still not A+ do to Speed issues which is downfall, but it's an amazing wall-breaker in the Sand. You can find other good wall-breakers without occupying your mega slot like Aegislash. Also, your Goodra statement makes no sense. How is it to physical? SpMovepool consist of Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Draco Meteor, Thunder, Fire Blast, Surf, Dragon Pulse, etc. AV Goodra fits the metagame perfectly espcially since it can tank wicked attacks like Choice Specs Hydro Pump's and Mega Charizard Y. Also, it's 4MSS not 5MSS. If it was 5MSS, that term wouldn't exist.

 

[114]

I still don't get mega-venu. Choosing 4 moves from giga drain, sludge bomb, hp fire, knock off, synthesis, leech seed, sleep powder, earthquake..... wtf.

This thing requires heavy team support. Without leftovers it doesn't recover a lot, and it seems like it can't decide between tank and wall. It's a compromise of both if it relies on leech seed, or if it picks synthesis. Its moves will always allow for holes, especially if you opt for a status move which I think you should. As a tank with 3 attacks its not makings serious dents, wearing down opponents without recovery. I think posed against a good wallbreaking team mega venu doesn't do well, and posed against a good stall team, mega venu isn't helping you either. It seems more like an anti-meta pokemon that is currently blessed due to newfound threats like lucario (soon to be banned plz), genesect, azumarill, thundurus. Seems more like a "came at the right time" pokemon, not a "the best wall in OU" pokemon.

Moreover, I think venusaur is more effective in the 1000-1800 range, where some less experienced players will be simply unable to kill venu (in the same way skarm chan is enough to wall noobs), but anything in the upper range venusaur is a great pokemon, but not a godsend pokemon.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

Given the OP's definitions I don't think it's S. I think it's more an A+ mon. It's not like Chansey in UU last gen, where every single special sweeper became 100% useless. Mega venu is bulky (not the bulkiest) with some nice resistances, but you can get past it. It lacks lefties and has severe drawbacks in the moves used. And I'm convinced the swords dance set reeks of asshole.

I know for me personally mega-venu hasn't been a problem cause I usually use staraptor, darmanitan, talonflame, mega pinsir lol, but still I'd like to hear some responses.

 

[Laurel]

Mega Herracross has been discussed on its rank. Mega Garchomp is good wall-breaker, but still not A+ do to Speed issues which is downfall, but it's an amazing wall-breaker in the Sand. You can find other good wall-breakers without occupying your mega slot like Aegislash. Also, your Goodra statement makes no sense. How is it to physical? SpMovepool consist of Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Draco Meteor, Thunder, Fire Blast, Surf, Dragon Pulse, etc. AV Goodra fits the metagame perfectly espcially since it can tank wicked attacks like Choice Specs Hydro Pump's and Mega Charizard Y. Also, it's 4MSS not 5MSS. If it was 5MSS, that term wouldn't exist.

The metagame is too physical not Goodra. Goodra is a great special sponge, but outside of Special Mega Lucario, Mega Zard Y, and mixed Aegislash (struggles vs Iron Head) it's almost all physical attackers.

Pinsir, Azumarill, Mega Zard X, Conkeldurr, Mega Medicham, Mega Heracross, Garchomp, Talonflame, Excadrill, Tyranitar, Scizor, Mega Tyranitar etc

 

[TrippingRocks]

I still don't get mega-venu. Choosing 4 moves from giga drain, sludge bomb, hp fire, knock off, synthesis, leech seed, sleep powder, earthquake..... wtf.

This thing requires heavy team support. Without leftovers it doesn't recover a lot, and it seems like it can't decide between tank and wall. It's a compromise of both if it relies on leech seed, or if it picks synthesis. Its moves will always allow for holes, especially if you opt for a status move which I think you should. As a tank with 3 attacks its not makings serious dents, wearing down opponents without recovery. I think posed against a good wallbreaking team mega venu doesn't do well, and posed against a good stall team, mega venu isn't helping you either. It seems more like an anti-meta pokemon that is currently blessed due to newfound threats like lucario (soon to be banned plz), genesect, azumarill, thundurus. Seems more like a "came at the right time" pokemon, not a "the best wall in OU" pokemon.

Moreover, I think venusaur is more effective in the 1000-1800 range, where some less experienced players will be simply unable to kill venu (in the same way skarm chan is enough to wall noobs), but anything in the upper range venusaur is a great pokemon, but not a godsend pokemon.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

Given the OP's definitions I don't think it's S. I think it's more an A+ mon. It's not like Chansey in UU last gen, where every single special sweeper became 100% useless. Mega venu is bulky (not the bulkiest) with some nice resistances, but you can get past it. It lacks lefties and has severe drawbacks in the moves used. And I'm convinced the swords dance set reeks of asshole.

I know for me personally mega-venu hasn't been a problem cause I usually use staraptor, darmanitan, talonflame, mega pinsir lol, but still I'd like to hear some responses.

What exactly about M-Venasaur screams "heavy team support required"? He takes neutral damage to stealth rocks and spikes, removes toxic spikes, and doesn't get too bent out of shape from sticky web since he rarely sees investment in speed anyway. His only weaknesses are to Psychic and Flying. Obviously, he can't handle something like Talonflame or Latios all by himself, but for most other pokemon, M-Vensaur can do alright against them. He's got pretty darn solid bulk along with a good amount of sp.atk, reliable recovery, and a great ability that removes 2 of his would-be weaknesses. Sure, he doesn't have leftovers, but he can recover via synthesis, leech seed, and giga drain. The fourth option of leftovers would be nice, but he doesn't really need it.

 

[farranpoison]

I still don't get mega-venu. Choosing 4 moves from giga drain, sludge bomb, hp fire, knock off, synthesis, leech seed, sleep powder, earthquake..... wtf.

This thing requires heavy team support. Without leftovers it doesn't recover a lot, and it seems like it can't decide between tank and wall. It's a compromise of both if it relies on leech seed, or if it picks synthesis. Its moves will always allow for holes, especially if you opt for a status move which I think you should. As a tank with 3 attacks its not makings serious dents, wearing down opponents without recovery. I think posed against a good wallbreaking team mega venu doesn't do well, and posed against a good stall team, mega venu isn't helping you either. It seems more like an anti-meta pokemon that is currently blessed due to newfound threats like lucario (soon to be banned plz), genesect, azumarill, thundurus. Seems more like a "came at the right time" pokemon, not a "the best wall in OU" pokemon.

Moreover, I think venusaur is more effective in the 1000-1800 range, where some less experienced players will be simply unable to kill venu (in the same way skarm chan is enough to wall noobs), but anything in the upper range venusaur is a great pokemon, but not a godsend pokemon.

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

Given the OP's definitions I don't think it's S. I think it's more an A+ mon. It's not like Chansey in UU last gen, where every single special sweeper became 100% useless. Mega venu is bulky (not the bulkiest) with some nice resistances, but you can get past it. It lacks lefties and has severe drawbacks in the moves used. And I'm convinced the swords dance set reeks of asshole.

I know for me personally mega-venu hasn't been a problem cause I usually use staraptor, darmanitan, talonflame, mega pinsir lol, but still I'd like to hear some responses.

The thing about Megasaur is that its moveset can be tailored specifically to what threatens the rest of your team. Sure, it can't run Leech Seed, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Earthquake, Synthesis, Knock Off, and Sleep Powder all on the same set, but the beauty of Megasaur is that you don't have to and it'll still be good. With superb offensive stats for a tanky mon, and access to reliable recovery in three possible moves, and utility up the wazoo, it's hard to see Megasaur being a dead weight in any situation. It really only requires you to have a partner that can wall Talonflame or Psychics, which isn't very hard to do. Megasaur/Heatran core is one of the best there is. You can also opt for a cleric or a wish passer, but those are bonuses, not necessary things. Again, it can be overcome, but so can the rest of the S-tier mons. Megasaur just needs so little support and can fit into numerous teams extremely well, so it's S-tier.

 

[alphatron]

A pokemon not being a problem for you doesn't necessarily mean that the pokemon is any less effective than it should be. Before the combo ban, I never lost to a drizzle swim team. But this was because my team was naturally prepared for teams that changed the weather and I was always sure to change the weather back in my favor.

Even then, I don't see how running any of those pokemon makes mega venusaur any worse. They can't even switch into directly because sludge bomb does way too much damage. And then he'll just switch out, potentially recovering any passive damage he may have taken with giga drain or synthesis. I don't see how taunt users shut it down either. So sableye taunts me? Great. I hope it enjoys being poisoned by 30% chance sludge bomb or giving me my hp back with giga drain. I got burned? That's cool. Now I can't receive a status I actually care about. And 4MSS? Once again, having a lot of good options is not a bad thing. It just makes the pokemon better. Deoxys has 4MSS because its movepool is extremely vast and many of the sets it can run are all viable. Manectric doesn't have 4MSS...because you're always picking the same 4 moves. There isn't any prediction required with this guy beyond what element hidden power he's running. And you can't exactly adapt his moveset to fit a variety of team types either.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

I think Sableye should be added to B rank

Sableye checks so many things right now like Mega-Lucario, Excadrill, SD Aegislash and also has prankster Taunt which is incredibly useful and shuts down Skarmory and Ferrothorn easily. Right now Will-O-Wisp has become one of the most popular moves in the metagame, and Sableye is one of the best users of it

 

[Laurel]

I think Sableye should be added to B rank

Sableye checks so many things right now like Mega-Lucario, Excadrill, SD Aegislash and also has prankster Taunt which is incredibly useful and shuts down Skarmory and Ferrothorn easily. Right now Will-O-Wisp has become one of the most popular moves in the metagame, and Sableye is one of the best users of it

Mega Lucario OHKOs it with a +2 Flash Cannon and Aegislash Shadowball with a spooky plate after rocks is almost an OHKO.

It's better than it was last gen with all the physical attackers and an 85% accuracy WoW, but its not B rank, C at best.

 

[6feetunder]

Mega Lucario OHKOs it with a +2 Flash Cannon and Aegislash Shadowball with a spooky plate after rocks is almost an OHKO.

It's better than it was last gen with all the physical attackers and an 85% accuracy WoW, but its not B rank, C at best.

He meant SD Mega Lucario, not NP.

 

[Laurel]

He meant SD Mega Lucario, not NP.

NP is the better set though, and it is what I see 90% of the time. It does beat the physical set though, no arguments there.

 

[rachet67]

I wish there was a dislike button on smogon, just so I don't have to right paragraph about how people are so ignorant sometimes.

Why can't this be a real thing, it would save so much time on people arguing with obviously dumb claims for pages *cough* Emboar

 

[King]

I wish there was a dislike button on smogon, just so I don't have to right paragraph about how people are so ignorant sometimes.

Man if you had only said "write" instead of "right" then this post would have been FUCKING PERFECT

 

[6feetunder]

NP is the better set though, and it is what I see 90% of the time. It does beat the physical set though, no arguments there.

This is true, but you still have yet to make an argument for putting Sableye in C rank as opposed to B, you just said "It's C rank" and left it at that.

 

[Vert]

The metagame is too physical not Goodra. Goodra is a great special sponge, but outside of Special Mega Lucario, Mega Zard Y, and mixed Aegislash (struggles vs Iron Head) it's almost all physical attackers.

Pinsir, Azumarill, Mega Zard X, Conkeldurr, Mega Medicham, Mega Heracross, Garchomp, Talonflame, Excadrill, Tyranitar, Scizor, Mega Tyranitar etc

You're being too ignorant with your list. You're ignoring that Mixed Aegislash, Mega Lucario, and Mega Charizard Y are very popular (usage) and you are ignoring its ability Gooey which punishes most of the physical attackers on that list like Garchomp, Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, Scizor, and Excadrill (on Iron Head). They are very popular not to mention how Gooey can save you by switching on a contact move like Waterfall and Fire Punch. Dragon-type has a good defensive presence as it resists Electric [Thunder Punch], Fire [Flare Blitz, Fire Punch], Water [Waterfall], Grass [Wood Hammer]. It can also sponge a Draco Meteor from Latios with 252 HP and OHKO back which is something that is highly appreciated. In addition, it has excellent Special Bulk. Oh wait, I said that. You were to ignorant with your list. Special Attackers:

Greninja, Aegislash, Deoxys-S, Mega Venusaur, Mega Lucario, Mega Charizard Y, Gengar, Keldeo, Landorus-I (Sheer Force set is more common), Thundurus-I, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-I, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, Genesect, Alakazam, Mega Alakazam, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Manetric, Rotom-W, Heatran.

When you said "it's almost all physical attackers", I laughed (in my mind lol). Yup, there is a lot of special attackers and it can punish contacters too.

Your most possible statement would be "why is it B+ Rank then, not A". Slow without Gooey thing, and needs to rely on Draco MEteor or super-effective damage to actually do some good damage. Other than that, its a sitting duck against something its coverage doesn't work on. also suffers 4MSS since Draco Meteor + Fire Blast are a must and physical bulk isa disappointing (don't get me wrong though, Gooey is good). For these reasons, Goodra is B+ rank, so IMO, it will stay. B is to good for it.


EDIT:

Mega Lucario OHKOs it with a +2 Flash Cannon and Aegislash Shadowball with a spooky plate after rocks is almost an OHKO.

Laurel
How does 2 PKMN ruining it change Sableye's rank to "C at best". You are also not guaranteed Lucario got the Nasty Plot boost.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Just listening to the MegaSaur argument, I have to say that I find most of y'all hilarious. Despite several people claiming it needs a ton of support, nobody's explained what kind of support it needs. Yes, if you see a talonflame or Pinsir or Espeon or something, you know you won't be able to wall them, but every wall has pokes it can't cover. It doesn't NEED spin support, its immune to toxic and can deal with WoW, even with 4MSS, its still able to do a ton with 4 moves, it can heal itself, and a lot of other things help it be the boss it is. I don't think its S rank (too many Talonflames and such), but its clearly one of the best walls in the game and people need to stop bitching about it.

 

[Laurel]

This is true, but you still have yet to make an argument for putting Sableye in C rank as opposed to B, you just said "It's C rank" and left it at that.

I don't need to make an argument I'm stating my opinion.

Do you want me to? Sableye isn't good. Mega Zard, Heatran or Talonflame (one of) are on almost every team and it gives both a free switch in. Talonflame can BB, Uturn, SD etc, Tran can rocks, Lava Plume, Zard X gets a DD.

Hard special hits knock it over like a toothpick IIRC, Specs Keldeo Hydropump after Rocks can OHKO.

 

[Laurel]

Vertex

Half the mons you listed are mixed or aren't used, after SR Goodra is easily killed (2hkod on switch in) by Alakazam Psyshock, Specs Keldeo Secret Sword?? The only special move people use on Aegislash is Shadow Ball (sometimes Flash Cannon) and Goodra is destroyed by +2 Iron Head.

Rotom-W, and Mega Manectric just Volt Switch, Genesect is again mixed and Goodra takes I think
35% from a Scarf UTurn.

Tornadus-T and Thundy-T are at less than 4% usage. It doesnt appreciate Thunder Wave from Thundurus-I, Manaphy Tail Glow + Ice Beam easily 2HKOs Thunderbolt does I think 40% back at most.

It's biggest niche is countering Zard Y, and if you switch Goodra into Zard X you die to a +1 Dragon Claw. I have a lot of experience with Goodra it is not B+.

 

[Vert]

I don't need to make an argument I'm stating my opinion.

Do you want me to? Sableye isn't good. Mega Zard, Heatran or Talonflame (one of) are on almost every team and it gives both a free switch in. Talonflame can BB, Uturn, SD etc, Tran can rocks, Lava Plume, Zard X gets a DD.

Hard special hits knock it over like a toothpick IIRC, Specs Keldeo Hydropump after Rocks can OHKO.

Your ignorance with no explanation deserves an argument.

• Competition
  • Kelfki
    • Advantage #1: Will-O-Wisp
    • Advantage #2: Taunt
    • Advantage #3: Foul Play
  • Banette
    • Advantage: Mega Slot not required

Okay, so Foul Play basically removes Charizard X off your list of "Free Switch-Ins" since it can Foul Play it as it Dragon Dances. Next, Heatran has to deal with Taunt, so it can't Stealth Rock. Of course Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump OHKOes. That is something everyone knows. Sableye is a good stall-breaker and can punish sweepers by burning them and is annoying to face overall. This itself gives it not a C Ranking. I'll add on to this later, but for now, this is good.