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Pokémon Barbaracle
- Thread starter Electrolyte
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I agree, TC provides a reliable boost to important coverage moves like poison jab and X-scissor. Sniper was simply an option. I thought about another very effective set as well.
With rock slide/stone edge, Earthquake, X-scissor, and shell smash, you not only hit 482 pokemon super-effectively, but you hit the rest (all 292) for neutral damage with the most powerful setup move in the game. Poison jab is slightly inferior coverage, although the status chance could make a switch from your opponent a OHKO instead of a 2HKO (tangrowth being a prime example, as it takes 78.4-92.5% damage from X-scissor/poison jab with an expert belt and 47-55.6% damage from stone edge with an expert belt. Unless he switched in on earthquake with no entry hazards, he won't be able to wall you and will get OHKO'd. Should you run life orb and one entry hazard, Tangrowth would be ohko'd by X-scissor. Technician mach punch from Breloom is the only priority that will OHKO you at -1 defenses (without a swords dance boost or baton passed boost), but he is easily ohko'd if you have a substitute to protect you from his priority. Bulky togekiss can make a great partner for baton passing subs and providing a potent threat to the scrappy mushroom with air slash.
With rock slide/stone edge, Earthquake, X-scissor, and shell smash, you not only hit 482 pokemon super-effectively, but you hit the rest (all 292) for neutral damage with the most powerful setup move in the game. Poison jab is slightly inferior coverage, although the status chance could make a switch from your opponent a OHKO instead of a 2HKO (tangrowth being a prime example, as it takes 78.4-92.5% damage from X-scissor/poison jab with an expert belt and 47-55.6% damage from stone edge with an expert belt. Unless he switched in on earthquake with no entry hazards, he won't be able to wall you and will get OHKO'd. Should you run life orb and one entry hazard, Tangrowth would be ohko'd by X-scissor. Technician mach punch from Breloom is the only priority that will OHKO you at -1 defenses (without a swords dance boost or baton passed boost), but he is easily ohko'd if you have a substitute to protect you from his priority. Bulky togekiss can make a great partner for baton passing subs and providing a potent threat to the scrappy mushroom with air slash.
Tough Claws inceases damage of comtact moves by 33%.
There have been a lot of numbers thrown around. 20%, 33%, and 50% were the guesses by most people, but I believe it is 20% or, like you say, 33%. Given that, X-scissor/poison jab will likely be the most used coverage move besides perhaps Cross chop. He does, however, have major accuracy issues with his primary moves: cross chop and stone edge. The only way I see him running dual 80 accuracy moves is with a wide lens or a baton passed hone claws so he isn't missing all the time to get ohko'd. Bright powder would be the bane of such a moveset anyway. As such, I think his most successful moveset will consist of a combination of 3-4 of the following moves (in order from highest to lowest base power with TC and/or STAB):
RSh = razor shell 150BP with STAB and TC, 95acc
StE = stone edge 150BP with STAB, 80acc
CC = cross chop 133BP with TC, 80acc
PJ = poison jab ~107BP with TC, 100acc
XS = X-scissor ~107BP with TC, 100acc
DC = dragon claw ~107BP with TC, 100acc (moderate base power and broad neutral coverage)
RkS = rock slide ~102BP with STAB, 90acc
BB = brick break 100BP with TC, 100acc
EQ = earthquake 100BP, 100acc
SC = shadow claw ~93BP with TC, 100ac
NS = night slash ~93BP with TC, 100acc
AA = aerial ace 80BP with TC, infinite acc
The move combinations I've found with perfect unresisted coverage (ranked from most supereffective coverage to least) are:
RkS/StE + EQ + PJ/XS (482 SE with XS, 440 SE with PJ)
SC + BB/CC + move of choice (317-475 SE, i'd go with rock for 3rd move)
RSh + RkS/StE + AA (400SE, 372 Neutral)
RSh + XS + SC (322 SE, 452 Neutral)
My apologies if the movesets are hard to read.
RSh = razor shell 150BP with STAB and TC, 95acc
StE = stone edge 150BP with STAB, 80acc
CC = cross chop 133BP with TC, 80acc
PJ = poison jab ~107BP with TC, 100acc
XS = X-scissor ~107BP with TC, 100acc
DC = dragon claw ~107BP with TC, 100acc (moderate base power and broad neutral coverage)
RkS = rock slide ~102BP with STAB, 90acc
BB = brick break 100BP with TC, 100acc
EQ = earthquake 100BP, 100acc
SC = shadow claw ~93BP with TC, 100ac
NS = night slash ~93BP with TC, 100acc
AA = aerial ace 80BP with TC, infinite acc
The move combinations I've found with perfect unresisted coverage (ranked from most supereffective coverage to least) are:
RkS/StE + EQ + PJ/XS (482 SE with XS, 440 SE with PJ)
SC + BB/CC + move of choice (317-475 SE, i'd go with rock for 3rd move)
RSh + RkS/StE + AA (400SE, 372 Neutral)
RSh + XS + SC (322 SE, 452 Neutral)
My apologies if the movesets are hard to read.
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One thing that I tried when Gen 6 was first released (A.K.A. When I didn't know Barb had SS) was a Double Dance set. This consisted of Hone Claws, Rock Polish, Stone Edge, and Razor Shell. It has a few advantages over a regular SS set that this has.
1. Stone "Miss" turns into Stone "Hit" after one Hone Claws
2. Razor Shell gets 100% accuracy as well
3. Same speed bonus as SS with RP
4. No defense drop
However, this is very hard to set up, and just doesn't hit as hard as SS. It's fun and unexpected, so I thought you guys might like it.
1. Stone "Miss" turns into Stone "Hit" after one Hone Claws
2. Razor Shell gets 100% accuracy as well
3. Same speed bonus as SS with RP
4. No defense drop
However, this is very hard to set up, and just doesn't hit as hard as SS. It's fun and unexpected, so I thought you guys might like it.
That would work with screen and burn support, but I don't see you getting a RP and HC off otherwise without getting set up on or KO'd. Barbaracle just isn't bulky enough to take it without significant investment in bulk, which reduces your speed or power, and you may get OHKO'd by a grass switch in while setting up. Not only that, but you lose coverage against pokemon that can take both of your STABs without breaking a sweat and hit back hard (Chesnaught is the perfect example with natural resistances to rock and water, incredible defense, and STAB seed bomb/wood hammer).
I would use this set for my doubles
Barbaracle@Focus Sash
252 Attack 252 Speed 4HP
Shell Smash
Razor Shell
Rock Slide
Earthquake
My main problem with this guy is that GameFreak didn't name him Elimbinator
Barbaracle@Focus Sash
252 Attack 252 Speed 4HP
Shell Smash
Razor Shell
Rock Slide
Earthquake
My main problem with this guy is that GameFreak didn't name him Elimbinator
This is one of the better pokemon I used, simply because you can setup on talonflame, which is awesome.
All the moves that make contact and are boosted by Tough Claws:
Aerial Ace - 78
Brick Break - 97
Clamp - 67
Cut - 65
Cross Chop - 130
Dragon Claw - 104
Dig - 104
Facade - 91 (182 if burned)
False Swipe - 52
Fury Cutter - 52 to 208
Fury Swipes - 23 to 117
Giga Impact - 195
Poison Jab - 104
Power-Up-Punch - 52
Razor Shell - 145
Rock Smash - 52
Shadow Claw - 91
Skull Bash - 169
Slash - 91
X-Scissor - 104
Aerial Ace - 78
Brick Break - 97
Clamp - 67
Cut - 65
Cross Chop - 130
Dragon Claw - 104
Dig - 104
Facade - 91 (182 if burned)
False Swipe - 52
Fury Cutter - 52 to 208
Fury Swipes - 23 to 117
Giga Impact - 195
Poison Jab - 104
Power-Up-Punch - 52
Razor Shell - 145
Rock Smash - 52
Shadow Claw - 91
Skull Bash - 169
Slash - 91
X-Scissor - 104
For anyone who is going to use Barbaracle and use shell smash with razor shell, cross chop and stone edge, I really do suggest you use brick break instead of cross chop and rock slide instead of stone edge. They may have lower power but brick break still gets boosted by tough claws, rock slide is still a STAB move and they are much more reliable than cross chop and stone edge because they are just more accurate. 80% accurate moves are just too trollish to rely on.
What's the difference between dying 100% of the time because of the too low base power of Rock Slide/Brick Break and dying 20% of the time because of the poor accuracy of Cross Chop/Stone Edge? If anything, run Earthquake, since it has similar coverage to Cross Chop and does not miss, and give him some team support for Ferrothorn.
After the boost from Tough Claws, Brick Break has 2.5 less power than Cross Chop. I'd trade breaking screens and perfect accuracy for 2.5 more power, 20% chance to miss, and an increased critical chance.
Did you considered that Cross Chop also has a Tough Claws boost?
With Brick Break you can't get the KO on stuff like Ferrothorn.
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 372-438 (105.6 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 282-332 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I have lost games because of a cross chop or stone edge miss. And I have won games because Brick break and rock slide do the job just fine because after a shell smash boost, anything that gets hit for super effective damage by those moves will still not appreciate it. I don't care if Cross chop or stone edge are more powerful, If you are relying on cross chop or stone edge to hit when you really need it to, prepare to be disappointed. Some days they can hit all the time, other days they miss twenty times in a row. Also you could also run X scissor, Earthquake or poison jab on this thing depending on what you want Barbaracle to hit once you get a shell smash going.
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In all honesty, the set I have had the most success with is Edge-quake with X-scissor for coverage. A shell smash-boosted X-scissor hits extremely hard on neutral hits with a tough claws boost. The things that resist it are fighting types, steel types, poison types, flying types, and fairy types, all of which struggle to take a stone edge or quake. It isn't quite as powerful as a cross chop, but EQ gets great neutral coverage and flying types will be hesitant to switch in on barbaracle because of the almost guaranteed ohko a stone edge would bring (unless you're unlucky and it misses). I've been running this barbaracle with screen support and spikes out and he is tough to stop once his shell smash is up. The only thing he really needs to watch out for is burn or paralysis from the likes of klefki, sableye, whimsicott, murkrow, etc. I also opt for expert belt over life orb because he can sweep whole teams with such great super-effective coverage, but with all of the status users out there, you will want either safeguard or taunt support (whimsicott is my preferred lead for taunt, tailwind, and paralysis support with U-turn to scout, crack sturdy/sash leads, and continue harassing your opponent throughout the match; if only he could use both screens)
I'm not so sure these numbers are accurate. If tough claws boosts BP by 33%, it would effectively be a 1/3rd boost to BP, making 60 BP moves 80, 75 BP moves 100, and so on. Razor shell is 75x1.5x1.33 = 149.62
Honestly? I've been running this set the past couple of battles and it's sort of a double edged sword.
Barbaracle @ White Herb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
If it works, it WORKS. It's beautiful watching your opponent get swept and almost nothing they can do can stop it. Now to justify the spread, I choose Jolly mostly because the boost in power from Shell Smash makes Adamant kinda not worth in my opinion. Running more speed just feels like a better idea - just... I'd say ten minutes ago? I was able to outrun your standard Bellyjet Azumarill, stomach an Aqua Jet with plenty to spare and finish off the rest of his team (and for proof: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-80522342).
In my humble (and not worth listening to) opinion, it seems like Barbacle may be a really good high use UU or low OU Pokemon. I feel his strengths lie more in UU more than OU, and I'll be doing more testing, but then again, what do I know?
Barbaracle @ White Herb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
If it works, it WORKS. It's beautiful watching your opponent get swept and almost nothing they can do can stop it. Now to justify the spread, I choose Jolly mostly because the boost in power from Shell Smash makes Adamant kinda not worth in my opinion. Running more speed just feels like a better idea - just... I'd say ten minutes ago? I was able to outrun your standard Bellyjet Azumarill, stomach an Aqua Jet with plenty to spare and finish off the rest of his team (and for proof: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-80522342).
In my humble (and not worth listening to) opinion, it seems like Barbacle may be a really good high use UU or low OU Pokemon. I feel his strengths lie more in UU more than OU, and I'll be doing more testing, but then again, what do I know?
I've found Adamant to be a little better than jolly because the extra power you get from adamant is doubled and grants you quite a few more OHKO's. The extra speed won't be helpful against powerful scarfers like terrakion, so you may just have to predict their action with a well-placed switch (a ghost type tank would be a great switch because terrakion will not appreciate a burn and will be forced to switch, possibly allowing you to set up).
A max iv max ev adamant barbaracle will have 470 speed after a shell smash, which outspeeds up to 93 base speed (with max iv's, ev's, and a speed boosting nature) scarfers. That is pretty damn fantastic, especially when it comes with a 678 attack stat and moves ranging in power from. Now consider the same barbaracle, but with a jolly nature: 516 speed (outspeeds up to 107 base speed scarfers, which is still awesome) and an attack stat of 618. So, the difference is 60 attack and 46 speed. It's all up to preference. I just think the extra power really helps against strong physical walls that might OHKO you while enduring your attack (tangrowth and chesnaught are the only two pokemon I can think of that can achieve this, although I haven't considered strong gyro ball users). Basically, the only thing that can revenge kill this barnacle after a shell smash is up would be a strong physical wall or a fast scarfer with a grass move. That said, a grass move is easily predictable, which is why a sap-sipper makes an excellent teammate (Goodra seems like a good one with a physical moveset and can soak up special hits, spread paralysis, phaze, etc.; sawsbuck is another good choice and can baton pass its boost or use swords dance on a potential switch, putting it at +3)
This is why I frequent this site. I've ran into so many assholes who make me feel really stupid because of something I've said or done and then something like this happens that makes me feel equal again.
All of those were fair points, too. I prefer the speed just because I feel that 618 is still one of the strongest attack stats in the game, so there's not a lot of point into dumping more into a stat that will already nab a lot of OHKOs after Rocks/Spikes. Then again I suppose if Multiscale Dragonite becomes a frequent again even with all the fairies floating around, the extra attack would probably be better off in that regard. It's a hard choice, trying to decide between more damage and outspeeding a large portion of the metagame. Only things I'm looking at that could potentially threaten you by outspeeding Jolly with a Scarf are Terrakion, Keldeo, Infernape... Then again I only glanced over a small portion of Pokemon and even then there are your really bulky Pokes that resist your dual stab - Ferrothorn comes to mind. Still, either way you're going to catch someone off guard by Smashing and trashing.
Infernape is a problem, without a doubt. Iron fist STAB mach punch kills Barbaracle if his defenses are at -1. Although he CAN sweep OU teams, he can't take priority without screen support, but he sure does a "smashing" job with screens. The one thing he really hates is status, most notably paralysis and burn, which reduce either of his two most important stats. A burn renders a shell smash as useful as a rock polish and paralysis cuts your speed down to pathetic levels (you achieve your normal speed at +6, I believe). Perhaps I just got really unlucky when he went down in my last battle because I set up screens with kelfki on tentacruel, getting burned on the first scald and dying soon after, brought barbaracle in and smashed, got burned by scald (again on the first turn; I think there is a 9% chance of having 2 consecutive burns on scald), and was promptly KO'd by infernape's mach punch after tentacruel went down. To make it worse, my lum-rest-harvest trevenant with max bulk and screens up got burned by the first fire punch from infernape (which has a 10% chance of burning; I think there is statistically a 0.9% chance that I incurred 3 burns consecutively from these 3 attacks). Now, bar bad luck, this guy has major killing capability. He'd probably fare better with white herb than expert belt to patch up your defenses, but I think the expert belt is just too good to pass up if you hit over 450 pokemon supereffectively)
i use barbacle often in fact i dont run the common shell smash i run the choice band with max atk and speed and a jolly nature and it works well although i can see why people would use the shel shash being really good but with razor shell cross chop dragon claw and stone edge it works well with the tought claws ability
Talonflame is excellent set-up bait. That is why having something weak to flying on your team is a good idea. Breloom, Heracross, and Chesnaught are excellent teammates, acting as bait for talonflame while also covering Barbaracle's ground and grass weakness and, in the case of heracross, his fighting weakness. Chesnaught also makes an excellent physical wall that can damage infernape on its attempts to hit with fire punch (spikey shield) and rack up life orb damage if he holds lefties. You can add leech seed to heal up behind spikey shield as well. Last of all, I think Togekiss will be another excellent teammate because of the 4x resistance to fighting, resistance to dark, immunity to dragon and ground attacks, and excellent flying STAB with air slash that can deal with physical walls that switch in on barbaracle and try to OHKO (Tangrowth, Chesnaught, etc.)
with regard to the choice band set, it just doesn't seem fast enough without sticky web support. I don't much care for the choice items anyway. I think shell smash, while not an immediate buff, is better because you can use Barbaracle's excellent movepool and coverage to its fullest extent. For a choice set, I would have stone edge, earthquake, x-scissor, and either razor shell or dragon claw as the 4th move. Razor shell is powerful STAB that will hit anything that doesn't resist or absorb it like a truck. Dragon claw has good neutral coverage and will hit things that try to predict stone edge, cross chop, or razor shell (as is popular at the moment) such as dragalge, garchomp, flygon, and so on. Just my thoughts on the matter.
with regard to the choice band set, it just doesn't seem fast enough without sticky web support. I don't much care for the choice items anyway. I think shell smash, while not an immediate buff, is better because you can use Barbaracle's excellent movepool and coverage to its fullest extent. For a choice set, I would have stone edge, earthquake, x-scissor, and either razor shell or dragon claw as the 4th move. Razor shell is powerful STAB that will hit anything that doesn't resist or absorb it like a truck. Dragon claw has good neutral coverage and will hit things that try to predict stone edge, cross chop, or razor shell (as is popular at the moment) such as dragalge, garchomp, flygon, and so on. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Baiting is really, really predictable, and with Team Preview being a thing it's generally a poor plan. The same mentality was used with the Gyaravire combo back in Gen 4. Electivire was pretty much OU's laughing stock to begin with, and when Gen 5 rolled around he dropped all the way down to RU.
No good player is going to lock themselves into an ineffective move with Talonflame if they see Barbaracle on your team, nor are they going to just sit in and let you do your thing. They'll most likely U-Turn to an appropriate answer, leaving you at a major disadvantage.
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