Zapdos [QC: 0/3]

[forestflamerunner]

ZAPDOS SAYS RAWR

Overview
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Zapdos has some very nice toys that make it a great defensive check. The first is reliable recovery in the form of Roost which really sets it apart from Rotom-W. The second is its solid bulk coupled with its nifty defensive typing which allows Zapdos to check some of the tiers most dangerous threats such as Aegislash, Mega Pinsir, and scizor. Finally, Zapdos gets Defog. Thanks to its Ability and Movepool, Zapdos is one of the best defoggers in the game. Zapdos can easily remove hazards in the face of defensive steel types such as Jirachi and Heatran and can actually PP stall these pokemon out of stealth rock thanks to pressure. Furthermore it can eliminate overeager Bisharps looking to get a boost off of defog by using Heat Wave, which is something no other defogger can do. Unfortunately, Zapdos is held back by a nasty SR weakness which basically means if you are not running Defog you might as well run Rotom-W. furthermore Zapdos outclassed offensively by the Thundurus forms, both of boast strong abilities and nasty plot to help muscle through walls. When using Zapdos be mindful of its limitations and play to its strengths.


SET NAME
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
move 2: Roost
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Defog / Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
ability: Pressure
item:Leftovers
evs: 248 HP/244 SpD/16 Spe
nature: Calm

Moves
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Thunderbolt is Zapdos's best STAB option, packing respectable power and 100% accuracy. Volt Switch is also an option, but the SR weakness makes it tough to use on Zapdos. Discharge is also an option for the high paralysis chance, but the drop in power is noticeable. Roost helps keep Zapdos alive and mitigates its Stealth Rock Weakness while Heat Wave helps Zapdos take on steal types such as Scizor and Ferrothorn. The final slot is pure utility, and can be any one of several moves. Defog is often the best option, but Toxic can be used to cripple incoming counters such as Lati@s, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Hidden Power Ice is a more niche choice if your team struggles against Gliscor and dragons 4x weak to ice type attacks such as Salamence, Garchomp,and Dragonite. Roar is also usable if CM'ers cause you problems but Zapdos isn't the best user of the move.

Set Details
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The EV's and nature are designed to maximize special bulk while still outspeeding nuetral natured base 70 pokemon such as Bisharp. A physically defensive set is viable, but most physical attackers carry either rock or ice type coverage making it difficult for Zapdos to handle Pokemon that attack from that side of the spectrum regardless of Bulk. However, Physically Defensive Zapdos does handle Sword Dance Aegislash and Mega Pinsir better than the special variant, so if your team struggles against those threats use physically defensive Zapdos. a spread of 248 HP/ 244 Def/ 16 Spe with a Bold nature should be used. Leftovers is the only useable item on Zapdos as it gretly increases Zapdos's longevity

Usage Tips
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Zapdos plays differently depending on whether stealth rock is on the field or not. if Stealth Rock is not on the field, Zapdos can handle most offensive steel types such as Scizor and Aegislash and most special attackers including Gengar and Heatran. You should use it to counter such threats. Zapdos can switch in, scare these Pokemon out and then Roost off the damage. When SR is up on the feild, don't use Zapdos to handle things that will probably just U-turn out like Scizor or genesect. Zapdos will get worn down fast if you do. Instead, save Zapdos for your opponent's setup sweepers that you couldn't otherwise handle. Try to keep Zapdos away from burns and toxic because they kill Zapdos's longevity, and in general try to keep SR off the field as much as possible. Zapdos scares off many SR users in the metagame, and you should use the free turn you get as the opponent switches to defog.



Team Options
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If Zapdos is not running Defog, Rapid Support from the likes of Excadrill is very helpful in prolonging Zapdos's lifespan. Excadrill also shares good synergy with Zapdos thanks to Zapdos's Ground immunity and fighting resist while excadrill can handle all of the stone edges that head Zapdos's way.Physical Fighting types are also good teammates for Zapdos as they can scare away/set up on the Tyranitars and Blisseys that like to switch in on Zapdos. Terrakion is a particularly good choice since Zapdos handles two of its strongest checks, Scizor and Aegislash, exceptionally well. Cleric Support from the likes of Sylveon and Blissey is also nice to alleviate Zapdos's status woes.



Other Options
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Zapdos has several other options for sets. Sub+Roost used to be a popular set on Zapdos, but it isn't very effective this generation thanks to Megz Venasaur. Zapdos also gets Agility+ Baton Pass, but Scollipede basically does it better. Zapdos can go offensive with a set of Thunderbolt/Heat Wave/ Hidden Power Ice/Roost, but Thundurus-T packs more of a punch.


Checks & Counters
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Stealth Rock: Making Sure Stealth Rock stays on the field is the easiest way to deal with Zapdos. Good Stealth Rock Users include Terrakion, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon since all of them can force Zapdos out
Special Walls: Zapdos doesnt have the firepower to get past dedicated special walls such as Blissey and Mega Venusaur. Tyranitar and Hippowdon can handle also wall Zapdos if it lacks toxic and threaten to Ko with Stone Edge and Ice Fang respectively
Dragons: if Zapdos lacks Hidden Power Ice, They can set up on Zapdos. Kyurem deserves a special mention because it doesnt even care about Hidden Power Ice. latias can also take Hidden Power Ice comfortably and set up CMs on Zapdos
Set up Sweepers: If Zapdos doesn't have toxic, it becomes setup bait for Terakion, Volcarona, Thundurus-T, and CM'ers
Boosted STAB nuetral attacks: even fully invested, Zapdos doesn't have the bulk to take some of the metagames stronger attacks like Specs Draco Meteors from Latios or Banded Talonflame Flare Blitz

• Choice Scarfers with rock or ice type coverage: SE hits will take Zapdos down fast.

 

[forestflamerunner]

I'm not sure whether or not to do a sub-roost set. I personally don't think its too great with Venusaur everywhere, and Zapdos's biggest draw is its ability to handle lucario and scizor. I might add a bit more to the checks and counters list if need be, but I think I hit the big points. Zapdos isn't exactly hard to check, but it does stop certain pokemon dead in their tracks.

Edit: fixed the silly mistakes

 

[Golden Aether]

Zapdos's HA in X/Y was changed to Static, just a fyi.

 

[Colonel M]

So... Zapdos doesn't even learn Grass Knot. Did you mean Hidden Power Grass?

 

[Tesung]

I think physically defensive should be mentioned to deal with mega pinsir, talonflame, physical lucario, etc. I might even argue that it should be the number one set, but it shoulda at least be mentioned.

 

[forestflamerunner]

I playtested Physical Zapdos and its reasonably effective. I think Specially Defensive is still the best set, but I will write up a set analysis for it. i should have that done tomorrow or the day after. Does anybody think there's anything else i should add to the analysis?

 

[Colonel M]

The only couple things I can think of are Baton Pass and maybe an offensive set (Thunderbolt (Volt Switch) / HP Ice / Heat Wave / Roost). I kind of agree with SubRoost - it's hard because Venusaur completely neuters it. Though I will say - I think Calm variants can have the Substitute 2HKOed by Sludge Bomb, so it isn't -too- bad.

 

[mikelos]

defog and something like Florges, [URL='http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Granbull_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29']Granbull, [URL='http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Celebi_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29']Celebi, or
Aromatherapy or heal bell might be good to have in a party with this [/URL][/URL]

 

[forestflamerunner]

I decided to mention the physically defensive set in the set details section. When I tried to write up its own set i found that i was repeating myself a ton because they require similar support and use the same exact moveset. I will list the offensive Zapdos in OO. It has heat wave, which is kind of cool, but its mostly outclassed by thundurus. So yeah, this is QC ready

 

[forestflamerunner]

Anything?

 

[PK Gaming]

You don't need to slash Hidden Power Ice twice(which should be written like that, without bracket). Heat Wave should be the sole move in the 3rd slot, otherwise you're a sitting duck against prominent Pokemon, like Excadrill or Ferrothorn.

Solid bulk backed by a useful Electric-Flying Typing and roost allows Zapdos to Counter a handful of powerful threats like scizor, genesect, Aegislash,Mega- Pinsir and Lucario

Counter is a strong word, i'd use "strong check" here.

Faces competition from Thundurus and Rotom-W

Since you're not using Zapdos offensively, you can remove the Thundurus mention.

Defog can be used to clear the field of hazards, but Zapdos isn’t the best user thanks to SR weakness.

Actually, arguably the best Defog user in the tier is weak to Stealth Rock (Mandibuzz) and Zapdos isn't too shabby either since it can threaten common hazard users.

Toxic is nice for getting through bullkymons like Goodra or some Blissey.

Toxic hits more than just those 2 Pokemon, it cripples Zapdos's best checks;Tyranitar, Latias/Latios, Garchomp, Hippowdon, Kyurem-B, and Mamoswine

I guess Roar and Hidden Power (Grass) are also available to deal with CMers and Rotom-W/Hippowdon respectively, so yeah

Toxic is better at dealing with Rotom-W/Hippowdon; Hidden Power Grass is hitting for peanuts.

When Static is released, it can be used over pressure for some paralysis support unless you are running toxic or a toxic based teams

We don't talk about unreleased abilities in our analyses.

Zapdos does not like Toxic, and a poisoned Zapdos may as well be a dead Zapdos

This kind of goes without saying. You'll be hard pressed to many defensive toxic-vulnerable Pokemon that doesn't mind Toxic.
Your Checks & Counters section isn't in the right format. click HERE for the correct format.

 

[forestflamerunner]

Made the suggested changes

 

[Jukain]

ok i have a lot of experience with zapdos and i think the main set should look like this:

name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Roost
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Defog / Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
nature: Calm

I would never run Volt Switch > Thunderbolt. It just isn't powerful enough, and Zapdos needs that power in all my experience. Roost and Heat Wave are givens. Defog I really think needs to be first in the last slot. Most of the time you run Zapdos, it is the only place you can fit said support. On a more defensive team, how is Excadrill fitting in? Because those teams are where Zapdos shines. Toxic and HP Ice are fine options if you have something like Latias or Skarmory as a teammate, though.

For the EVs, I don't see the point in outrunning Modest Politoed. I've never faced one in all my XY battles, and think the extra SpD is way more useful. That's like running 28 SpA EVs on Amoonguss last gen: technically do something, but useful once in a blue moon.

 

[forestflamerunner]

Suggested changes made

 

[Jukain]

talk about how awesome pressure is -- i've pp stalled many a foe out of their most dangerous moves thanks to it. its utility really is invaluable. it's also the best ability to have when you can't break something on the opposing team, and need to pp stall it.

 

[Swamp Link]

248 HP EV's to decrease Stealth Rock damage.
You mention in the overview that it deals with Genesect, Scizor, Mega-Pinsir, Aegislash, and Lucario. 3 of these pokemon can attack from either side of the spectrum and the other 2 are always physical. Why is a specially defensive spread better? At least explain why it is if you think it is, although I do think physical is better. You mention specially based Lucario, but these are the calcs.
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Zapdos: 249-293 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 201-237 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This Zapdos fares much better against physical Mega Lucario, almost definitely coming out on top even with Stealth Rock, while still taking special Mega Lucario very well. Whereas a special spread with struggle mightily against physical Mega Lucario, all for the sake of avoiding a 2HKO from +2 Aura Sphere when you can basically OHKO with Heat Wave anyway. I don't think it's optimal for the metagame.

 

[forestflamerunner]

248 HP EV's to decrease Stealth Rock damage.
You mention in the overview that it deals with Genesect, Scizor, Mega-Pinsir, Aegislash, and Lucario. 3 of these pokemon can attack from either side of the spectrum and the other 2 are always physical. Why is a specially defensive spread better? At least explain why it is if you think it is, although I do think physical is better. You mention specially based Lucario, but these are the calcs.
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Zapdos: 249-293 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 201-237 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This Zapdos fares much better against physical Mega Lucario, almost definitely coming out on top even with Stealth Rock, while still taking special Mega Lucario very well. Whereas a special spread with struggle mightily against physical Mega Lucario, all for the sake of avoiding a 2HKO from +2 Aura Sphere when you can basically OHKO with Heat Wave anyway. I don't think it's optimal for the metagame.

Mega Lucario tends to survive with about 10% from an uninvested HW. so taking over 50% from Mega Luke is not an option if ur trying to counter NP Luke. However, since CC lowers Lucarios defenses, HW can KO without fail (well 10% miss but w/e). If Lucario has ice punch zapdos is fucked either way so w/e. thats why i find special defensive zapdos to be better against lucario in general.

Zapdos shouldnt be trying to sponge scizors U turns. It just gets worn down too fast because of the sr weakness. However, besides knock off, Zapdos resists everything Scizor can throw its way so its never really doing more than about 30% to specially defensive zapdos, which can be roosted off easily. Being physically defensive isn't really needed in this case.

Once again, against genesect, u shouldnt be trying to stomach U-Turns. Against special variants, specially defensive zapdos does a whole lot better than physically defensive zapdos (obviously). But even against banded variants, Special Zapdos avoids the 2HKO against everything its got except +1 extremespeed, but it can take ice beam from banded variants like they're nothing. Obviously Physical Zapdos takes on banded sect noticeably better than the special variant, but the special variant can still handle genesect fairly well. Since special genesect are more common than physical, i think specially defensive handles genesect better overall.

Aegislash usually carries some combination of iron head, sacred sword, swords dance, shadow sneak, shadow ball, and sacred sword. Lets ignore swords dance for a secong. Zapdos handles its entire physical movepool amazingly well;Sacred sword and iron head are resisted while shadow sneak has 40 BP. Shadow Ball is the strongest move aegislash has against Zapdos, and to take on those, Specially defensive is much appreciated. Shadow ball is found on almost every three attack set, so the way i see it specially defensive does better against those than physically defensive does. Now, swords dance variants are handled better by physical zapdos, but specially defensive zapdos can take them on alright as well. The only attack that SD Aegislash usually carries that hits zapdos nuetrally is shadow sneak, and specially defensive zapdos should be able to stomach one of those and ko back, so the way i see it, specially defensive handles aegislash pretty well.

Pinsirfucks up specially defensive zapdos. You really do need to invest in defense to check this thing.

Now, beyond these top threats, zapdos usually takes on special attackers better than physical attackers. This is mostly because most physical attackers have ice or rock coverage or can make it play guessing games with EQ ( if zapdos is trying to roost), whereas a lot of special attackers (l rotom-w, lati@s, gengar, etc.) cant hit Zapdos supereffectively ever. This makes Zapdos a good candidate for checking these threats for ur team. Also, there are no strong special rock moves and the most common users of ice beam (waters) are scared off by Zapdos's STAB. So overall i find Zapdos is better tailored to handle special threats. Of course, depending on team needs, a physically defensive Zapdos would be more useful, but I feel specially defensive is generically better

 

[Swamp Link]

Alright, that makes a lot of sense. You've convinced me. Thanks for explaining. I think it would be helpful to include some of these points in the OP to explain why a specially defensive spread is better.

 

[forestflamerunner]

I made the suggested changes and I added a note on how physical attackers often have SE coverage for Zapdos. Anything else i should add?

 

[ShootingStarmie]

In the overview you should mention that it's a very viable Defog user, despite being weak to Stealth Rocks.

Uh, the EVs are pretty weird. I think running 16 speed EVs to out speed Adamant Bisharp could be a good bench mark.

 

[Orphic]

Discharge is worth a mention! Paralyzing opponents can be very helpful for Zapdos, especially since with roost it can stall many opponents out thanks to pressure.

 

[forestflamerunner]

Adjusted the spread as suggested. I gave Discharge a brief mention. I think we can all agree it does not deserve to be slashed next to thunderbolt

 

[Swamp Link]

You still need to change the HP EV to 248 to reduce Stealth Rock damage.

 

[forestflamerunner]

fixed

 

[Yuri]

Let's face it, the one reason to use Zapdos over Rotom-W is Defog. maybe mention this somewhere.

Discharge still gets important OHKOs like Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Greninja, Gyarados and 2HKOs Mandibuzz after rocks. I think it also 2HKOs Mega Charizard Y but it might need some Special Attack investiment. Even physically defensive Zapdos can take one sun-boosted Fire Blast from Zard-Y. It can also be used to fish for paralisys on some common switches like Heatran (immune to poison and burn). Depends a bit more on whether your team appreciates the paralisys support.

That said, I agree that Thunderbolt should be the primary option.