Pokémon Charizard

[mertyville]

Double Dance Charizard X might be nice

Charizard@X-Mega-Stone
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
- Dragon Dance
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance Claw :P
- Fire Punch

That is a similar set I used on Haxorus and it was amazing, but Charizard has better coverage in Fire+Dragon than the Axe-Head.

 

[Salemance]

Double Dance Charizard X might be nice

Charizard@X-Mega-Stone
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
- Dragon Dance
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch

That is a similar set I used on Haxorus and it was amazing, but Charizard has better coverage in Fire+Dragon than the Axe-Head.

Just a friendly reminder, ya got Dragon Dance listed twice

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

My favorite set is still bellyzard. +4 outrages beat pretty much everything but fairies, and flame charge covers the speed problem. I use him as a lead because then he won't have to worry about hazards, can set up on the free turns or on rotom or genesect, and a lot of people think it's Y so the treat it wrong. Not perfect, but it's easy momentum right off the bat

 

[mertyville]

Just a friendly reminder, ya got Dragon Dance listed twice

Thanks, after all those dance I just didn't realised what I have written xD

 

[aVocado]

+2 jolly Charizard OHKOs Dragonite through multiscale with outrage, not sure if +1 does that? You'd be more vulnerable to something like Garchomp but I suppose flame charge could help. An SD set's viability would be based on damage calculations vs stuff that Charizard out-speeds, maybe it could grab some KOs the dd set can't.

I have some experience in this, DD Charizard only misses out on KOs like Slowbro and Specially Defensive Hippowdon, compared to SD Zard which can KO them after SR.

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 441-520 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 355-418 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs.

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 258-304 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 265-313 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And as for Charizard not KOing Dragonite through multiscale:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 399-469 (123.1 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

---

Anyway, I just realized that DD Mega Zard X can in fact afford to run adamant.. this is huge. I'm appreciating this beast more and more everyday, easily the best DDer in the game hands down.

 

[LuvdiscSushi]

I have some experience in this, DD Charizard only misses out on KOs like Slowbro and Specially Defensive Hippowdon, compared to SD Zard which can KO them after SR.

+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 441-520 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 355-418 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs.

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 258-304 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 265-313 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And as for Charizard not KOing Dragonite through multiscale:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 399-469 (123.1 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

---

Anyway, I just realized that DD Mega Zard X can in fact afford to run adamant.. this is huge. I'm appreciating this beast more and more everyday, easily the best DDer in the game right now hands down.

Thanks, very helpful calcs, I'll be running dd for sure.

 

[aVocado]

I forgot to add Rotom-w:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

And this is Adamant:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

 

[Salemance]

Anyway, I just realized that DD Mega Zard X can in fact afford to run adamant.. this is huge. I'm appreciating this beast more and more everyday, easily the best DDer in the game hands down.

Wait.......it can?! I thought that 100 speed tier was too precious to give up!

 

[LuvdiscSushi]

Wait.......it can?! I thought that 100 speed tier was too precious to give up!

Adamant Charizard out-speeds positive natured pokes up to Rotom-W. This means that Lucario, Gliscor, Hydreigon and Haxorus are the only real differences. In the 100 speed tier, Salamence and Volcarona are the only real ones of note. On that note who knew Miltank had 100 speed!
As far as I'm aware the 100 speed tier is famously important in ubers.

 

[Salemance]

Adamant Charizard out-speeds positive natured pokes up to Rotom-W. This means that Lucario, Gliscor, Hydreigon and Haxorus are the only real differences. In the 100 speed tier, Salamence and Volcarona are the only real ones of note. On that note who knew Miltank had 100 speed!
As far as I'm aware the 100 speed tier is famously important in ubers.

That's what I knew, but again, I was just surprised as he was stating that he said Char could afford to run Adamant and I failed to factor in against some opponents, not all.

 

[aVocado]

Wait.......it can?! I thought that 100 speed tier was too precious to give up!

Pokemon that have an odd speed tier and lower than 100, other than Genesect, usually always run a neutral speed nature. Prime examples are Haxorus, Hydreigon, Landorus-t etc.

The only Pokemon ZardX doesn't get at +1 with Adamant are Scarf Flygon, Jirachi and Landorus-T, all of which are pretty uncommon and irrelevant. The one that can make the difference though is Genesect, which does 53.3 - 63% with Ice Beam at +1, but it can still be used as set-up fodder, assuming ZardX will already be at +1 by the time Genesect is out, and assuming of course that the Zard is healthy.

I also realized that Roost isn't really taking away any valuable coverage from ZardX. I mean sure, you risk not hitting Heatran for x4 and mind-games with aegislash, but ZardX is forced to Outrage vs. Balloon tran anyway, and aegislash doesn't die from +1 EQ.

 

[NoStatusPlz]

I had a game yesterday that perfectly demonstrates the awesomeness that is Bulky Will-o-Wisp Mega X:

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-81030994

His EVs and moveset are posted in this thread already, but I'll post them here again for convenience:

136 HP/ 120 Atk / 252 Spe, Jolly Nature

Will-o-Wisp
Roost
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw

In this battle, after burning an Excadrill, he only took 21% damage from Rock Slide, something that would have OHKO'd Mega Y or normal Zard. That's incredible, if you ask me.

Again, he can't do jack to Heatran, so I have a Jolly Mamoswine on my team for that situation.

not sure how mamoswine rectifies the situation, I would just recommend pairing it with something like dugtrio since that's all that really stops it

 

[Uore]

CharX Is going OU, I dont see charY as a big threat. mainly because it heavily relies on sun and sp.attack to kill, meaning any pokemon with weather can shut it down.

 

[aVocado]

CharY imo is much easier to handle than X. Easy to revenge-kill, meaning common and uncommon scarfers can kill it off. Latias walls it, since its dragon pulse is too weak and can't 2HKO slightly defensive Latias. x4 weakness to rock doesn't help, either. The blobs also wall it, Tyranitar can switch into anything not called Focus Blast etc. But this thing can bring down walls.. I mean, never underestimate a fire Blast coming from base 159 SpA in the fucking sun.

While CharX, on the other hand.. nothing stands in its way except for some very reliable walls aka Hippowdon and Slowbro, and both of them take huge amounts of damage from +1 Outrage. Everything else is OHKOd, from Chansey/Blissey to Dugtrio, that simple. It's also quite bulky so it's not that easily revenge-killed by priority, and DD boosting its speed means scarfers can't always revenge it.

Both are going to be OU, that's for sure.

 

[LuvdiscSushi]

CharX Is going OU, I dont see charY as a big threat. mainly because it heavily relies on sun and sp.attack to kill, meaning any pokemon with weather can shut it down.

True however, this generation, weather inducers have been greatly nerfed, so struggle to justify a team slot, unless they also carry offensive potential. Therefore, while something like Tyranitar and Charizard Y can change the weather and pose an immediate threat, the likes of Politoed have had their usefulness reduced. In any case, the calcs on drought Fire Blast are hilariously good, giving Zard-Y the edge over fellow Fire types like Chandelure.

 

[Uore]

CharY imo is much easier to handle than X. Easy to revenge-kill, meaning common and uncommon scarfers can kill it off. Latias walls it, since its dragon pulse is too weak and can't 2HKO slightly defensive Latias. x4 weakness to rock doesn't help, either. The blobs also wall it, Tyranitar can switch into anything not called Focus Blast etc. But this thing can bring down walls.. I mean, never underestimate a fire Blast coming from base 159 SpA in the fucking sun.

While CharX, on the other hand.. nothing stands in its way except for some very reliable walls aka Hippowdon and Slowbro, and both of them take huge amounts of damage from +1 Outrage. Everything else is OHKOd, from Chansey/Blissey to Dugtrio, that simple. It's also quite bulky so it's not that easily revenge-killed by priority, and DD boosting its speed means scarfers can't always revenge it.

Both are going to be OU, that's for sure.

CharY gets walled after 8 turns or any water type.

ever.

(except greninja)

 

[aVocado]

CharY gets walled after 8 turns or any water type.

ever.

(except greninja)

8 turns is a lot, lol. And it's actually 5 turns. And 5 turns is still a lot, CharY can do lots of work in 5 turns.

 

[Uore]

8 turns is a lot, lol. And it's actually 5 turns. And 5 turns is still a lot, CharY can do lots of work in 5 turns.

Gyrados, Tentacruel, Starmie, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Swampert, Gastrodon, T-Tar, Azumarill, and BLissey say hi.

 

[aVocado]

Gyrados, Tentacruel, Starmie, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Swampert, Gastrodon, T-Tar, Azumarill, and BLissey say hi.

None of them can safely switch into SolarBeam except maybe Tentacruel, and of course Blissey and Tyranitar. the latter loses to Focus Blast, while the former 2 can't do anything in return, in the sun. Except for Blissey's case, it might t-wave. But yeah, Blissey/Chansey wall ZardY to hell and back, that's an unavoidable fact.

 

[Uore]

None of them can safely switch into SolarBeam except maybe Tentacruel, and of course Blissey and Tyranitar. the latter loses to Focus Blast, while the former 2 can't do anything in return, in the sun. Except for Blissey's case, it might t-wave. But yeah, Blissey/Chansey wall ZardY to hell and back, that's an unavoidable fact.

Who has ever relied on Focus Blast?

Solar Beam is a threat, and gyrados can switch in.

 

[aVocado]

Who has ever relied on Focus Blast?

Solar Beam is a threat, and gyrados can switch in.

Focus Blast is still an option and it's still used, and it still 2HKOs Tyranitar, if not even OHKO.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 153-180 (46 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados in Sun: 156-185 (46.9 - 55.7%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 348-412 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Yeah, no.

 

[Salemance]

Who has ever relied on Focus Blast?

Solar Beam is a threat, and gyrados can switch in.

I rely on Focus Blast on my Char Y as I use other Pokémon to check Heatran for him as Ttar is almost too crucial to give up sometimes. Gyarados is:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 153-180 (46 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados in Sun: 156-185 (46.9 - 55.7%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO

When it can be 2HKO by an attack it would normally resist, id say its not entirely safe.

EDIT: Oh, got beat to it. XD

 

[Rechi]

Gyrados, Tentacruel, Starmie, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Swampert, Gastrodon, T-Tar, Azumarill, and BLissey say hi.

lmao at you bringing up Swampert and Gastrodon as if Solarbeam doesn't exist.

Also, what's with all this talk about how Charizard is going to be OU, as if it hasn't already happened yet? As of right now, Charizard is the #7 pokemon in OU..

 

[nyczxjay]

Anyway, I just realized that DD Mega Zard X can in fact afford to run adamant.. this is huge.

Was outsped once by a Jolly Excadrill; stuck with Jolly ever since. I find being able to speed tie with other Charizards (both X&Y) and guaranteeing to outspeed <100 speed pokemon more valuable. To each their own though (maybe I'll give Adamant another shot).

 

[Uore]

lmao at you bringing up Swampert and Gastrodon as if Solarbeam doesn't exist.

Also, what's with all this talk about how Charizard is going to be OU, as if it hasn't already happened yet? As of right now, Charizard is the #7 pokemon in OU..

Charizard is played in all tiers because of how over glorified it is. Your point is really invalid.

Focus Blast is still an option and it's still used, and it still 2HKOs Tyranitar, if not even OHKO.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 153-180 (46 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados in Sun: 156-185 (46.9 - 55.7%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 348-412 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Yeah, no.

Assault vest says hi.