Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

Status
Not open for further replies.
"proving anything bar your ignorance"
Shots have been fired.

My whole point about the Physical Flying STAB is to make a point that using Physical Torn-T is a super-bad idea.

In defense of my "ignorance", I stated that Tornadus-T's greatest STAB (the one that could 2HKO most of the metagame, not some pussy Air Slash) and his other coverage move Focus Miss sit at 70% accuracy. If anything, this all goes back to Rain because it's the only weather that allows it to get a Base 110 (now 110) Vertex edit 100% accuracy STAB.

Furthermore, the introduction of Assault Vest severely hampers his ability to deal shit tons of damage. Common users such as Goodra and Tyranitar can fully take a Focus Blast and KO back.
Saying that Tornadus-T has numerous flaws and not mentioning any of them and saying B Rank is ignorant.

That pussy Air Slash 2HKOes lots of the metagame after Stealth Rock, so don't call it pussy. Tornadus-T rarely uses Focus Blast because Superpower is superior: hits Blissey, Chansey, OHKOes Tyranitar, etc. and what are the only good AV users? Escavalier who is rare, Tyranitar OHKOed by Superpower, Goodra, and Slowbro. Goodra and Slowbro are severely crippled by Knock Off where Tornadus-T can U-turn out after or hit the latter with Air Slash. Tornadus-T also forces a ridiculous amount of switches letting it set up Rain Dance and Hurricane SPAM.

Acrobatics Tornadus-T is a bad idea. I agree.
 
Ninetales for D rank is a joke. If you want to use sun offense without manual sunny day, you have to use Ninetales, and sun offense is still a viable playstyle, as you can still get ~14-20 turns of sun as long as you don't play too stupid with Ninetales and the opponent doesn't have ihis own weather. Lead with Tales, bring her in again after something dies in ~7-8 turns, and then bring her one last time to sac her and bring the sun up one last time. With the offensive monsters that sun has at its disposal you should have no problem ending the game fast anyway, except against full stall with lots of Protect users. Ninetales should be somewhere in B rank, though i am not sure where.
Ninetales also has decent utility in roar, power swap (works well with overheat shenanigans, and can buy you some time against set up sweepers) so it isn't dead weight.

But I still wouldn't say it ranks above B
 
We have to much to do with the Viability Ranking lists. I have a lot of ideas for ranking the remaining pokemon. Given what I know of them, his past, his Gen VI changes, I propose this categories.


Cloyster C+
Smeargle C no
Donphan B- Donphan is E or D at most
Jolteon D jolteon is not good anymore
Hydreigon B- ok
Jirachi B+ b-
Gastrodon C
Metagross C+
Umbreon C
Porygon2 B-
Magnezone B
Reuniclus C+
Darmanitan C
Haxorus C
Aggron B- (Mega)
Crobat C+
Kingdra C+
Weavile B-
Ninetales B same as Donphan
Nidoking C
Milotic C
Ampharos B- (Mega) normal B
Snorlax C+
Machamp C
Mew B
Cofragrigus C
Victini B
Mienshao C
Banette C+ (Mega) c-
Avalugg C c-
Shuckle C
Zoroark C
Suicune C+
Rhyperior C eviolite rhydon can generally take all non SE hits better and it deals about the same
Houndoom (Mega) C+
Cresselia C+
Xatu C
Tangrowth B-
Ammoonguss C+
Froslass C
Wobbuffet B
Azelf C
Slowking C+
Bronzong C
Sharpedo C
Yanmega C
Meowstic C
Meloetta C
Mr. Mime C
Gothitelle C+
Rotom-Mow C
Shaymin C
Virizion C
Tornadus C
Cobalion C
Some suggestions to discuss
You cannot just list. You have to freaking give reasons for all of them.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
For people who still question Liepard's ranking, it was I who first brought it up. I listed it because of the useful Prankster Encore + U-turn combination (which Whimsicott also has), and also has Prankster T-Wave and most notably STAB Foul Play, giving it more offensive presence than pretty much every other disruptive Pranskter user (Thundurus is sweeper first). I did not list it there for SwagPlay shenanigans, that was just one of the things it could do: no one nominates Sableye for SwagPlay even though it could definitely pull it off, because we look at its more consistent sets to judge its ranking.
 
It's better that I exaplained why I made those decisions.

Cloyster C+ If you make Coyster set up you have to deal with it. Which is not that difficult given that he could set up on physical attackers or use a Focus Sash. Shell Smash at +2 outspeed all the metagame and after that, his Icicle Spear, Rock Blast hit hard. For the last slot, you can chose priority or Water STAB.
Smeargle C It's effective is doing what he runs because of his unprectability and because the ability of run Spore/Dark Void. Focus Sash guarantees that Smeargle take a hit and do partially it's job. It has terrible stats as we know.
Donphan B- Donphan is one of the better spinners. It's has good defense and can patch his Special Defense with Assault Vest (Rapid Spin is compatible). Excadrill is not always a superior spinner because his relative fraility and because it's still rather slow and super-effective attacks are everywhere.
Jolteon D I think that Jolteon have a niche over Mega Manectric in the fact it doesn't require a Mega Stone and Baton Pass.
Hydreigon B- Fairies demolished it hard (and if you use Flash Cannon, good luck 3HKOing Sylveon) but he can potentiually 2HKO the majority of the metagame easily and his movepool is unpredictable. Also, becauseit's a 600 BST Dragon it's useful. Also, A Dark type that is so useful this gen.
Jirachi B+ Jirachi is nerfed with being weak to Ghost and Dark but I think that Jirachi has a lot of threads it still resists, it's unpredictable as fuck (Jirachi has around 20 viable moves), more than decent defenses, and an excellent annoyer.
Gastrodon C She has a niche in being a Water/Ground pokemon that is inmune to water attacks and has reliable recovery. Grass are rare because many of the top threads resists it (and some doubke resist it). He has decent defenses (specially his HP) to take some attacks and physical sweeper risk Scald hax.
Metagross C Nerfed so bad with Ghost and Dark weakness but I think that she has a niche. Metagross is bulky on the physical side, has a great load of resistances it can switch in, has Meteor Mash to attack opponent, can use Assault Vest sets, it's a good Stealth Rock setter.
Umbreon C One of the better mixed walls of the metagame. True that it has no offensive presence but he can run Foul Play specially now that hits neutrally Steel types. And now his Moonlight can be considered "reliable recovery2 with the nerf of weather.
Porygon2 B- Evolite Trace Porygon2 is great in this metagame. Exist Knock Off but the common Knock Off users are detectable. It's a good mixed wall with the ability of coping abilities and has some offensive presences. Don't ignore that this type is one of the two only types to resist Ghost.
Magnezone B Steels are in this metagame rampant, and some of the pokemon it used to wall are still in OU to be trapped. It has some myriad resistances that makes it good vs some non-Steel threats, etc.
Reuniclus C+ Clefable has better typing but this is no crap. Clefable doesn't have 125 Special Attack and Reuniclus has better defenses to take hits. His main point is the Trick Room Life Orb set, capabel of taking many threats with moves of his good movepool.
Darmanitan C 140 STAB + Sheer Force really hurts and makes one of the few Choice Band/Scarf best moves in the metagame that is capable of 2HKOing resists of it. IUt has a good movepool to support his Flare Blitz which Super Power, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Thunderpunch, etc. Also moves affected by Sheer Force don't receive Life Orb recoil, remember.
Haxorus C+ Dragon/Ground w/ Mold Breaker with Poison Jab to hit fairies (in the physical side) is Great. 147 Attack with the threat of Dragon Dance or even Swords Dance is nothing to scoff off. His fraility can prevent to reliable DD, it's outclassed by Garchomp or Dragonite partially and Fairies really nerf it. I count on C+ because I expect two oif the Steel types of the top to go to Ubers.
Aggron B- (Mega) A Mega with 230 Base Defense, a maximum of 1,5x weakness and still 140 Attack and average HP is still good. This can be 2HKO by a very few physical threats in the metagame (and one that can it's expect to be Ubers soon). And Steel is way better offensively than Rock/Steel.
Crobat C+ Crobat has a decent support movepool and can make good function as a lead. Flying STAB are good for offensive presence, it's one of the faster Taunt users, has good typing with a lot of reistances (many being duble ones), and has unpredictability of being a lead set or a more offensive set.
Kingdra B- CritDra hurts. Guaranteed 2.25x Draco meteor are not funny to anything that is not Chansey, Blissey, a Steel wiuth Special Defense or a Fairy. But Fairies risk a 2.25x Hydro Pump in their face, same with Steels. Also, there's the threat of rain Kingdra with it's devastating as always, specially if you miss Azumarill.
Weavile B- Dark Buff, Knock Off buff, Icicle Crash, faster priority and the rare 125 Speed tier. Weavile is viable now as a revenge killer. He is frail (although 70/85 in the special side is not that bad) but his goal is being a cleaner of slower threats, not taking hits.
Ninetales B Sun is still good and Ninetales has one gimmick over Charizard-Y: Heat Rock. If you are using a Sun team, you have to use Ninetales if you don't want to be reliant of manual sun. Also Ninetales is good at taking special hits and his Sub Fire Blast and Solar Beam hurts.
Nidoking C Sheer Force and his movepool is scary, even more now that his attack is buffed to bypasses the 100 mark. It's very unpredictable in his movepool that you should be noted if yNidoking is ohysiuca, special, mixed, has Stealth Rocks, etc. There are better sweepers and wall brekaers but Nidoking is not trash.
Milotic C May be even C+. It's viable now specially with status being rampant right now . Water type is the excellent type of always, and it's still one of the best mono type in the metagame only behind Steel or maybe Fairy. Physical attackers fear Scald and Marvel Scale, while Speciall Attacks have to deal with 95/125 defenses (which are great). And it has reliable recovery in the form of Recover.
Ampharos B- (Mega) Electric/Dragon is not a bad typing. Even less in this metagame. 165 Special Attack and Mold Breaker HURTS. Ampharos has almost perfect synergy using Electric and Dragon attacks, has more than good defenses 90/105/110, 6 resistances. It's slow as fuck but his great defenses patch that, and if you deal with Trick Room, be prepared that the speed is inverted and then it will take care with your lower speed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's better that I exaplained why I made those decisions.

Cloyster C+ If you make Coyster set up you have to deal with it. Which is not that difficult given that he could set up on physical attackers or use a Focus Sash. Shell Smash at +2 outspeed all the metagame and after that, his Icicle Spear, Rock Blast hit hard. For the last slot, you can chose priority or Water STAB.
Smeargle C It's effective is doing what he runs because of his unprectability and because the ability of run Spore/Dark Void. Focus Sash guarantees that Smeargle take a hit and do partially it's job. It has terrible stats as we know.
Donphan B- Donphan is one of the better spinners. It's has good defense and can patch his Special Defense with Assault Vest (Rapid Spin is compatible). Excadrill is not always a superior spinner because his relative fraility and because it's still rather slow and super-effective attacks are everywhere.
Jolteon D I think that Jolteon have a niche over Mega Manectric in the fact it doesn't require a Mega Stone and Baton Pass.
Hydreigon B- Fairies demolished it hard (and if you use Flash Cannon, good luck 3HKOing Sylveon) but he can potentiually 2HKO the majority of the metagame easily and his movepool is unpredictable. Also, becauseit's a 600 BST Dragon it's useful. Also, A Dark type that is so useful this gen.
Jirachi B+ Jirachi is nerfed with being weak to Ghost and Dark but I think that Jirachi has a lot of threads it still resists, it's unpredictable as fuck (Jirachi has around 20 viable moves), more than decent defenses, and an excellent annoyer.
Gastrodon C She has a niche in being a Water/Ground pokemon that is inmune to water attacks and has reliable recovery. Grass are rare because many of the top threads resists it (and some doubke resist it). He has decent defenses (specially his HP) to take some attacks and physical sweeper risk Scald hax.
Metagross C Nerfed so bad with Ghost and Dark weakness but I think that she has a niche. Metagross is bulky on the physical side, has a great load of resistances it can switch in, has Meteor Mash to attack opponent, can use Assault Vest sets, it's a good Stealth Rock setter.
Umbreon C One of the better mixed walls of the metagame. True that it has no offensive presence but he can run Foul Play specially now that hits neutrally Steel types. And now his Moonlight can be considered "reliable recovery2 with the nerf of weather.
Porygon2 B- Evolite Trace Porygon2 is great in this metagame. Exist Knock Off but the common Knock Off users are detectable. It's a good mixed wall with the ability of coping abilities and has some offensive presences. Don't ignore that this type is one of the two only types to resist Ghost.
Magnezone B Steels are in this metagame rampant, and some of the pokemon it used to wall are still in OU to be trapped. It has some myriad resistances that makes it good vs some non-Steel threats, etc.
Reuniclus C+ Clefable has better typing but this is no crap. Clefable doesn't have 125 Special Attack and Reuniclus has better defenses to take hits. His main point is the Trick Room Life Orb set, capabel of taking many threats with moves of his good movepool.
Darmanitan C 140 STAB + Sheer Force really hurts and makes one of the few Choice Band/Scarf best moves in the metagame that is capable of 2HKOing resists of it. IUt has a good movepool to support his Flare Blitz which Super Power, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Thunderpunch, etc. Also moves affected by Sheer Force don't receive Life Orb recoil, remember.
Haxorus C+ Dragon/Ground w/ Mold Breaker with Poison Jab to hit fairies (in the physical side) is Great. 147 Attack with the threat of Dragon Dance or even Swords Dance is nothing to scoff off. His fraility can prevent to reliable DD, it's outclassed by Garchomp or Dragonite partially and Fairies really nerf it. I count on C+ because I expect two oif the Steel types of the top to go to Ubers.
Aggron B- (Mega) A Mega with 230 Base Defense, a maximum of 1,5x weakness and still 140 Attack and average HP is still good. This can be 2HKO by a very few physical threats in the metagame (and one that can it's expect to be Ubers soon). And Steel is way better offensively than Rock/Steel.
Crobat C+ Crobat has a decent support movepool and can make good function as a lead. Flying STAB are good for offensive presence, it's one of the faster Taunt users, has good typing with a lot of reistances (many being duble ones), and has unpredictability of being a lead set or a more offensive set.
Kingdra B- CritDra hurts. Guaranteed 2.25x Draco meteor are not funny to anything that is not Chansey, Blissey, a Steel wiuth Special Defense or a Fairy. But Fairies risk a 2.25x Hydro Pump in their face, same with Steels. Also, there's the threat of rain Kingdra with it's devastating as always, specially if you miss Azumarill.
Weavile B- Dark Buff, Knock Off buff, Icicle Crash, faster priority and the rare 125 Speed tier. Weavile is viable now as a revenge killer. He is frail (although 70/85 in the special side is not that bad) but his goal is being a cleaner of slower threats, not taking hits.
Ninetales B Sun is still good and Ninetales has one gimmick over Charizard-Y: Heat Rock. If you are using a Sun team, you have to use Ninetales if you don't want to be reliant of manual sun. Also Ninetales is good at taking special hits and his Sub Fire Blast and Solar Beam hurts.
Nidoking C Sheer Force and his movepool is scary, even more now that his attack is buffed to bypasses the 100 mark. It's very unpredictable in his movepool that you should be noted if yNidoking is ohysiuca, special, mixed, has Stealth Rocks, etc. There are better sweepers and wall brekaers but Nidoking is not trash.
Milotic C May be even C+. It's viable now specially with status being rampant right now . Water type is the excellent type of always, and it's still one of the best mono type in the metagame only behind Steel or maybe Fairy. Physical attackers fear Scald and Marvel Scale, while Speciall Attacks have to deal with 95/125 defenses (which are great). And it has reliable recovery in the form of Recover.
Ampharos B- (Mega) Electric/Dragon is not a bad typing. Even less in this metagame. 165 Special Attack and Mold Breaker HURTS. Ampharos has almost perfect synergy using Electric and Dragon attacks, has more than good defenses 90/105/110, 6 resistances. It's slow as fuck but his great defenses patch that, and if you deal with Trick Room, be prepared that the speed is inverted and then it will take care with your lower speed.

Oh lord that's a wall of bold........ Would you mind putting spaces between each nomination?

The one I will be commenting on is Nidoking, who you nominated for C. While Nido is easily one of if not the best Sheer Force users (due to his IMMENSE coverage), what truly holds him back is his speed. Base 85 Speed is sadly, just not good enough in todays metagame. True, he is the Fairy killer with him being able to destroy all Fairy types with one STAB or the other, but he is not able to reliably defeat other threats. Nido is then sadled with a Ground type weakness (Ground like Rock typing can not resist itself....never understood that) which many threats in the OU tier carry in the form of the ever reliable Earthquake.

I can safely say that King is fully capable of being C rank as he is truly a destructive force in even the wrong hands, which the added option of going Mixed once more. C rank suits him fine just can't go higher.

And no one uses Nidoking for Stealth Rocks. Sacrificing some of his beautiful coverage for rocks is silly, as if you wish to use a Nido with Stealth Rocks, use Nidoqueen as her bulk allows her to easily abuse it.
 
It's better that I exaplained why I made those decisions.

Donphan B- Donphan is one of the better spinners. It's has good defense and can patch his Special Defense with Assault Vest (Rapid Spin is compatible). Excadrill is not always a superior spinner because his relative fraility and because it's still rather slow and super-effective attacks are everywhere.
.
First of all Donphan sucks arse in the current meta as a spinner, he beats only two spinblockers that are beaten by every other spinner anyway (Sableye and Aegislash). Second, It's too crazy slow and assuming it is going to spin its sturdy will be negated so it can easily be outsped and KO'd by most things. And Ice Shard does almost no damage to anything, it does 51% to gliscor on a critical hit and it fails to KO Salemence ffs. Third, every other spinner is actually bulky on both sides/fast enough to actually spin well and can actually beat spinblockers. Fourth "One of the better spinners" and "B-" contridict each other.
 
So, why does Quagsire have a tier listing and a blacklisting?
It was initially ranked due to being viable in the current meta, but was blacklisted as an idiot kept discussing only one of Quagsire's sets and acted like it was the be all end all of sets forcing Ginganinja to blacklist the poke after the guy not seeing reason.
 
It's better that I exaplained why I made those decisions.,

Smeargle C It's effective is doing what he runs because of his unprectability and because the ability of run Spore/Dark Void. Focus Sash guarantees that Smeargle take a hit and do partially it's job. It has terrible stats as we know.
Hydreigon B- Fairies demolished it hard (and if you use Flash Cannon, good luck 3HKOing Sylveon) but he can potentiually 2HKO the majority of the metagame easily and his movepool is unpredictable. Also, becauseit's a 600 BST Dragon it's useful. Also, A Dark type that is so useful this gen.
Umbreon C One of the better mixed walls of the metagame. True that it has no offensive presence but he can run Foul Play specially now that hits neutrally Steel types. And now his Moonlight can be considered "reliable recovery2 with the nerf of weather.
Haxorus C+ Dragon/Ground w/ Mold Breaker with Poison Jab to hit fairies (in the physical side) is Great. 147 Attack with the threat of Dragon Dance or even Swords Dance is nothing to scoff off. His fraility can prevent to reliable DD, it's outclassed by Garchomp or Dragonite partially and Fairies really nerf it. I count on C+ because I expect two oif the Steel types of the top to go to Ubers.
Crobat C+ Crobat has a decent support movepool and can make good function as a lead. Flying STAB are good for offensive presence, it's one of the faster Taunt users, has good typing with a lot of reistances (many being duble ones), and has unpredictability of being a lead set or a more offensive set.
Kingdra B- CritDra hurts. Guaranteed 2.25x Draco meteor are not funny to anything that is not Chansey, Blissey, a Steel wiuth Special Defense or a Fairy. But Fairies risk a 2.25x Hydro Pump in their face, same with Steels. Also, there's the threat of rain Kingdra with it's devastating as always, specially if you miss Azumarill.
Weavile B- Dark Buff, Knock Off buff, Icicle Crash, faster priority and the rare 125 Speed tier. Weavile is viable now as a revenge killer. He is frail (although 70/85 in the special side is not that bad) but his goal is being a cleaner of slower threats, not taking hits.
Nidoking C Sheer Force and his movepool is scary, even more now that his attack is buffed to bypasses the 100 mark. It's very unpredictable in his movepool that you should be noted if yNidoking is ohysiuca, special, mixed, has Stealth Rocks, etc. There are better sweepers and wall brekaers but Nidoking is not trash.
Smeargle: Deoxys-S easily deflects its moves, and it still has problems with Taunt Thundurus and Whimsicott. The fact that Spore got nerfed doesn't help at all. Should remain where it is.
Hydreigon: "Fairies demolished it hard" Yes, because Substitute and roseli berry don't exist. Hydreigon can also 2hko many fairies switching in with Specs Flash Cannon. Should be B.
Umbreon: It has NO offenses and way too many Pokemon set up on it. Should remain unranked in my opinion.
Haxorus: It can still Double Dance (unlike Chomp and Dragonite) and has no problem getting rid of Fairy-types. B-
Crobat: I love this Pokemon to death and I think cb crobat is the best set, but it still has no means of doing anything to steel-types... C rank at most
Kingdra: I can see this being B rank because it can destroy a large portion of the metagame if it gets a Dragon Dance boost.
Weavile: What? This should be B+ or even A-. Weavile is frail, indeed, but now it's no longer outclassed by Mamoswine as a dragon slayer because it got access to Icicle Crash, whose flinch rate is 30% and works well with its 125 base speed. Weavile is also the fastest user of Knock Off with STAB on it.
Nidoking: too slow... keep it unranked

Milotic: Unfortunatley, it still suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome and doesn't hit that hard. Also, it is complete setup bait for Mega Venusaur. Should remain unranked.

sorry for double post
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Smeargle: Deoxys-S easily deflects its moves, and it still has problems with Taunt Thundurus and Whimsicott. The fact that Spore got nerfed doesn't help at all. Should remain where it is.
Hydreigon: "Fairies demolished it hard" Yes, because Substitute and roseli berry don't exist. Hydreigon can also 2hko many fairies switching in with Specs Flash Cannon. Should be B.
Umbreon: It has NO offenses and way too many Pokemon set up on it. Should remain unranked in my opinion.
Haxorus: It can still Double Dance (unlike Chomp and Dragonite) and has no problem getting rid of Fairy-types. B-
Crobat: I love this Pokemon to death and I think cb crobat is the best set, but it still has no means of doing anything to steel-types... C rank at most
Kingdra: I can see this being B rank because it can destroy a large portion of the metagame if it gets a Dragon Dance boost.
Weavile: What? This should be B+ or even A-. Weavile is frail, indeed, but now it's no longer outclassed by Mamoswine as a dragon slayer because it got access to Icicle Crash, whose flinch rate is 30% and works well with its 125 base speed. Weavile is also the fastest user of Knock Off with STAB on it.
Nidoking: too slow... keep it unranked

Haxorus is utterly outclassed as a dragon dancer by Salamence as discussed several pages back, thus putting it at D rank below the C rank Salamence.

Haxorous is always that dragon I remember hating to fight but forget why. He has many great qualities but some flaws set him back.

His speed tier is sadly not good enough for a dragon dancing dragon (that was fun). Char X has base 100 and is able to out speed even without, thus making it an easy defeat. Same goes for Salamence. Then you have Dragonite who is slower yes, but a free turn of set up makes him so much better than almost everyone which can be seen by his No. 1 Dragon in usage last Gen if I recall correctly.

Now he does get Mold Breaker which is truly a god send to him as firing off earthquakes on levitators and breaking sturdy is alot of fun. But sadly, he is lacking in one thing that almost every other offensive dragon has bar Salamence (who makes up for it in coverage slightly): dual stab.

Char X has the silly good Fire/Dragon combo and can not be burned, something Haxo is envious of dearly. Garchomp, while not a Ddancer, has Dragon/Ground, which is still silly good even if its walled by Togekiss and can not be paralyzed (although he sometimes wishes he could just not get burned). Dragonite is a little unique in its secondary stab of choice is special, which is the fear inducing Hurricane, and the WP sets make it even stronger.

He has the attack, the abilities, and great coverage moves to be useful, but is sadly outclassed by Salamence (the lowest ranking dragon in OU) due to lack of secondary Stab and not good enough speed (97 too slow? That really is just so silly but dragons are so dang competitive).

Thus if I had to rank him, it would be below Salamence, and that is not B sadly.
Original argument against Haxorus I made just for the sake of not missing what was once said.
 
Last edited:
What Haxorus has going for it is:
- Being Mono-Typ means it is only has 2x Weaknesses (not as easy to revange kill with Ice Shards)
- Mold Breaker allows it to hit many Levitate user like Gengar with EQ
- Taunt
- Fighting+Ghost Coverage (Shadow Claw and Brick Break) and Dragon+Ground Coverage (STAB+Earthquake)
- Insane Attack Stat
- Enough Speed to outspeed most of its checks and counters, mainly fairies

Sadly it lost its main advantage in Double Dance, which is completely walled by Togekiss but it hits hard enough to take care of most pokemon in the metagame and still effective.

I think Haxorus is a solid C and a nice niche in this metagame. I don't really think a Fairy Hunting Set is relevant or usable on Haxorus, because you are wasting coverage for stuff like Poison Jab or Iron Tail, but still something worth mentioning.
 
First of all Donphan sucks arse in the current meta as a spinner, he beats only two spinblockers that are beaten by every other spinner anyway (Sableye and Aegislash). Second, It's too crazy slow and assuming it is going to spin its sturdy will be negated so it can easily be outsped and KO'd by most things. And Ice Shard does almost no damage to anything, it does 51% to gliscor on a critical hit and it fails to KO Salemence ffs. Third, every other spinner is actually bulky on both sides/fast enough to actually spin well and can actually beat spinblockers. Fourth "One of the better spinners" and "B-" contridict each other.
Lol have you even tested Donphan?I run a semi-stall team with it and it has been working wonders for me due to it's synergy with my Talonflame,MegaVenu,and Heatran.Currently laddered to 1390.Anyway,let me prove you wrong point by point.

First point:Care to explain exactly WHY it is bad in this meta game?In my eyes,with a Physically Defensive Assault Vest set,it can counter Talonflame (BB does like 25~30% to it),both Mixed and SD Aegislash (+6 Shadow Sneak does 60%),check Lucario,Beat both Garchomps on a one-on-one situation (unboosted EQ from normal does 30~35%),beat Excadrill always,take attacks from Band Scizor really well,beat Tyranitar always(unless it's Specs lol),check Heatran,and so on.Notice that I am not even naming obscure threats,but rather some of the most used Pokemon in the Metagame.What did you say about beating spinblockers?Aegislash is dead no matter what(it outspeeds you),and Gengar is 2HKOed by SE which all assault vest sets run.Sableye's and Jellicent's usage negligible.And these days with defog no one uses spinblockers anyway.

Second point:So what if it's slow?Are you using this thing on offensive teams?(If you are you are really dumb cuz Exca is way better.)It killing momentum is not a problem since stall or balanced teams doesn't require momentum to function.And on something as bulky as Donphan,why would you need sturdy?This is not a Deoxys-D,it should be treated like a Hippowdon with Rapid spin and should be kept alive for most of the match.90 Hp fully invested,120 defense fully invested,and 60 sp def patched up by assault vest is more than enough to keep you alive throughout the match without that need for speed.Ice shard is a weak move on Donphan but no one said it had to OHKO 4X weaks,right?Its like HP ice on Landorus-T,no one said it had to OHKO,as long as it does it's job of 2HKOing dragons.

Third point:No,it doesn't face competition from other spinners because it's job is unique and the is no other
spinner can copy it.If it did not have rapid spin,it would face competition from Landorus-T and Hippowdon,but it doesn't.Lets go over other common spinners in OU:Excadrill,Forretress,Tenta,and Starmie.Excadrill and Starmie are out because they are offensive Pokemon and are expected to beat spinblockers(BTW Starmie can't beat Aegislash and Exca can't beat Gengar even if it predicts the switchin and goes for RS or IH cuz Focus Blast OHKOs with LO,although it would be a tough day for Gengar).Tenta is a bulky water and should not be compared to Donphan because they play entirely different roles and how is Forretress fast or bulky on both sides?Forretress also plays an entirely different role and should not be compared.All of the above mentioned Pokemon cannot switch into top threats as well as Donphan can though whether it is the best spinner of he whole lot is debatable.The only one thing I am arguing for is Donphan not moving to D rank.

Fourth point:Okey Dokey.DONPHAN FOR B+!
 
Last edited:
ErMaGerd... This is what, the fourth time that Donphan has been brought up? It's C rank at best, totally outclassed in everything notable it can do by other Pokémon. If Donphan is the best fit on your team for a bulky hazard remover, you might want to tweak your team some.
 
"proving anything bar your ignorance"
Shots have been fired.

My whole point about the Physical Flying STAB is to make a point that using Physical Torn-T is a super-bad idea.

In defense of my "ignorance", I stated that Tornadus-T's greatest STAB (the one that could 2HKO most of the metagame, not some pussy Air Slash) and his other coverage move Focus Miss sit at 70% accuracy. If anything, this all goes back to Rain because it's the only weather that allows it to get a Base 120 100% accuracy STAB.

Furthermore, the introduction of Assault Vest severely hampers his ability to deal shit tons of damage. Common users such as Goodra and Tyranitar can fully take a Focus Blast and KO back.
Hurricane only has 110 base power this gen :]
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Donphan can :D
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 424-499 (110.4 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 313-370 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 78-94 (28.6 - 34.5%) -- 5.6% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 58-70 (21.3 - 25.7%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO
 
ErMaGerd... This is what, the fourth time that Donphan has been brought up? It's C rank at best, totally outclassed in everything notable it can do by other Pokémon. If Donphan is the best fit on your team for a bulky hazard remover, you might want to tweak your team some.
On the other side, it outclasses everything because it does the job of two pokemon with one team slot.

Btw, there are essentially only like two bulky offensive hazard remover in the entire meta, Donphan and Latias, others all take a more offensive approach, or are simply supports, and physical tank Latias outright sucks.

Anyway, it should be note that your team need to be tweak only when what you need for your 6th member is virtually impossible to be done with one team slot, not when a weak pokemon somehow manages to wrap up everything and fit in perfectly.

Donphan is never the best pokemon in the game, and is likely never hitting the glorifying A tier with its sub par base stat, unappreciated(though not necessarily bad) typing, and mediocre ability. But it is still the only pokemon which does its job even after we include the ubers(though it probably won't tank throught that tier), so before GF decides to give us something new, we will stick with our elephant for quite a while.

Oh, we do have a replacement in the form of Gliscor, but I have yet to see anyone running defog SR glisor if I have remembered it correctly, and btw, the 4* ice weakness really hammers its consistency.

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 424-499 (110.4 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 313-370 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 78-94 (28.6 - 34.5%) -- 5.6% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 58-70 (21.3 - 25.7%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO
Perhaps he is joking with stone edge, though I am rather sure no one takes it.
 
Last edited:

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
On the other side, it outclasses everything because it does the job of two pokemon with one team slot.

Btw, there are essentially only like two bulky offensive hazard remover in the entire meta, Donphan and Latias, others all take a more offensive approach, or are simply supports, and physical tank Latias outright sucks.
Avalugg?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 4)

Top