Aegislash

[Style_Dota]

Autotomize
########
name: Autotomize
move 1: Autotomize
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Sacred Sword / Iron Head / Flash Cannon
ability: Stance Change
item: Life Orb / Weakness Policy
nature: Rash
evs: 88 Atk / 252 Atk / 168 Spe

change to SpA plz

 

[alexwolf]

alexwolf A few minor suggestions:

• I think it would be wise to mention reasons why it is a great Wallbreaker (Excellent coverage, great power, Stealth Rock resistance, Toxic immunity, etc.)

• This statement is somewhat vague. I would personally change it to "Aegislash's excellent typing allows it to check many common Pokemon in the metagame, such as Mega Lucario"

• I would remove this point. Unless Aegislash uses Air Balloon, it is not getting past Excadrill and Donphan, two relatively common Rapid Spin users in the metagame.
• In the Set details of the Tank set, I would mention that Aegislash can be of great use on teams in need of a Mega Lucario check, as Aegislash is one of the few Pokemon that can reliably check it
• Hydreigon could potentially be mentioned as a teammate in nearly all of the sets, as it has perfect defensive synergy with Aegislash and appreciates the removal of Fairy-types
• It could be mentioned in the Set Details of the wallbreaker set and moves section of the Autotomaize set that HP Ice can 2HKO physically defensive Mandibuzz, although I'm unsure about this as Mandibuzz could easily use Roost to avoid taking much damae from a second HP Ice or OHKO Blade Aegislash with Foul Play
• In the OO section, I would mention that the Air Balloon could be used to check ground-types such as Garchomp and Excadrill, similar to Air Balloon Heatran

I'm not QC however and a large amount of these suggestions are minor, so this doesn't have to be implemented.

Thx, will do those in the write-up.

Also, thx MikeDecIsHere, fixed the error.

I moved the double dance set to OO, as we agreed that while it is an ok set in itself, the other sets are way better, and so the opportunity cost is very big and doesn't make it main-set worthy. I also added a SpD set and separated SD + 3 attacks from King's Shield + SD as they play very different, have different spreads, items, and moves. Unless there is something to be added, i will start writing this up asap.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I don't know if this should be mentioned due to the rather anti-metagame and niche nature of this strategy, but The CRUMBLER is simply legendary with Trick Room support. It switches in easily, hits extremely hard with both physical and special attacks, outspeeds almost everything, has flawless coverage, is resistant or immune to most forms of priority, and has its own priority for when Trick Room runs out. In other words, it's the wet dream of every single Trick Room team ever. This makes most wallbreakers, sweepers, and cleaners look like swiffer mops compared to the zamboni that is The CRUMBLER under Trick Room.

 

[Nysyr]

I'd like to recommend colbur berry as an option for Aegislash, as it gives it a way to get around Bisharp.

Edited: Apparently knockoff is still boosted when the berry is consumed which is unforunate. This may be the same with Flying gem this gen.

 

[gnr61]

I love the SpD set since it switches in on so many special dragons and RKers for days, offering a great defensive retreat button for mons like SD Garchomp and Charizard while crippling via Toxic the same walls that could be hindering them. While Pursuit is excellent for sniping Starmie/Lati@s (since you know they're switching out), would Sacred Sword still be an option to kill Greninja and Mega Lucario? Otherwise Greninja schools you with Dark Pulse, though it's easy to switch in on Ice Beam or Pumps aimed at your sweepers; and with SS it's probably as close as you get to a full counter to special Mega Lucario (at least while it's still unbanned)

Edit: SS also maims SpD Heatran on the switch -- who, while it can't do much back to shield form, takes a pittance from uninvested Shadow Ball and threatens to burn back with Will-O-Wisp or Lava Plume

 

[Jukain]

we had a talk on #xyqc, and based on it i suggest these moves for crumbler:

move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Pursuit / King's Shield / Sacred Sword

First of all, IH > SSword. You mention Excadrill, but it dies to SBall (no I am not counting AV). You mention Bisharp and Heatran, but they require prediction to hit, and with hazards Heatran isn't too hard to wear away at with LO SBall. Chansey can't do crap besides pray for no Iron Head flinches and Soft-Boiled stall. Greninja can hardly switch into SBall. The coverage is way more relevant on Tank because its SBall isn't half as strong, but The CRUMBLER doesn't need SSword. Iron Head lets you beat Fairies easily, and actually hits hard in general.

Now, last slot. Pursuit first based on my experiences and feedback of others. The most reliable way to take out the Lati twins and make life easier for Manaphy, Megazard Y, .? Yes PLEASE. It also gives Deoxys-D free hazard-setting reign. KS gives up free turns and honestly, as you've even said yourself, isn't the greatest thing nor needed on crumbler, but its utility can be nice. SSword has the uses of hitting Bisharp/Heatran on the switch as well as 2HKOing Chansey (these aren't bad, just not as consistently useful to deserve the slot over IH). It could be slashed before KS if you prefer.

mention deoxys ho and the infamous hazards core (deo + aegi + bisharp) for crumbler!!! also mention stuff like pinsir and charizard x that take advantage of crumbled teams.

can sclaw be slashed on offensive sd? vs rotom and megazor it's just so nice, and what i prefer to run personally.

can we remove sd + ks please? the set is garbage -- i've tried to make it work, but it doesn't even have a strong stab ffs. the speedy sd set and even autotomize are miles better sweepers. it's an opportunity cost that isn't worth it. i'm sure other qc members can vouch for me here.

 

[alexwolf]

I am fine with all those stuff Jukain, so unless someone disagrees i will implement all of them.

 

[Unowninator]

Say, why doesn't the analysis list a 0 IV? I thought you want Aegislash to be as slow as possible to make Blade forme go last.

 

[Selflessly]

Say, why doesn't the analysis list a 0 IV? I thought you want Aegislash to be as slow as possible to make Blade forme go last.

With the 12 speed evs it creeps -spe Ttar and ohkos it thats why its assumed with 31 spe

 

[Unowninator]

With the 12 speed evs it creeps -spe Ttar and ohkos it thats why its assumed with 31 spe

Hmm
. I guess you would want to avoid Crunch in Shield Forme.

Suppose I'm using only 3 physical attacks & King's Shield, should I use Adamant or Brave?

 

[Jukain]

Hmm
. I guess you would want to avoid Crunch in Shield Forme.

Suppose I'm using only 3 physical attacks & King's Shield, should I use Adamant or Brave?

use shadow ball because 3 physical atks aegi is worse

 

[Unowninator]

use shadow ball because 3 physical atks aegi is worse

I tried it, but I noticed a power drop in Sacred Sword & I wasn't too happy about it; missed out on a few KOs, so I switched back to 3 physical attacks.

 

[Sugarcube]

How common are Pursuit trappers currently? Without King's Shield, Aegislash is too vulnerable to them imo and has to be played more conservatively should a pursuit user be seen on the opponent's team.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

alexwolf how do you feel about making crumbler first?

 

[GrislyBear]

With genesect gone you can reallocate the 4SpD Eva on the crumble and tank sets to Atk and Go respectively.

 

[Seth Vilo]

With genesect gone you can reallocate the 4SpD Eva on the crumble and tank sets to Atk and Go respectively.

I dunno... It may be worth it to just leave that point in SpD for Download users anyway, which, yes, are Porygon2/Z. Yeah, they're rare, but you might as well be prepared for them trying to snag a boost, and it's just one point anyway.

 

[Magnemite]

I think Air Balloon deserves a mention somewhere for the sole purpose of spinblocking Mold Breaker Excadrill, which is otherwise nearly impossible for hyper offensive teams. (Unless you're real enough to use Air Balloon Gengar, that is)

Also alexwolf you never implemented the move changes Jukain suggested on the crumbler like you said you were going to, just pointing it out.

 

[alexwolf]

I think Air Balloon deserves a mention somewhere for the sole purpose of spinblocking Mold Breaker Excadrill, which is otherwise nearly impossible for hyper offensive teams. (Unless you're real enough to use Air Balloon Gengar, that is)

Also alexwolf you never implemented the move changes Jukain suggested on the crumbler like you said you were going to, just pointing it out.

Will do what you and Jukain said dw, just didn't had the time to update the OP yet.

 

[Sorawing]

Shouldn't it be 236HP EVs which gives it a lefties number? Since 240 EVs gives it 321HP and pretty sure 320HP is the lefties number.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Shouldn't it be 236HP EVs which gives it a lefties number? Since 240 EVs gives it 321HP and pretty sure 320HP is the lefties number.

No.
"Leftovers numbers" are as follows: [number divisible by 16] + 1. 320 is divisible by 16. Adding one puts you into the next "amount recovered per turn bracket" using the least overall investment in a stat. 236 EVs puts you below that 320 number, and therefore is very inefficient in relation to the amount of HP you recover.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Leftovers recovery doesn't work like that. The amount of recovery rounds down, not up. So if you have an HP stat anywhere from 320 to 335, you're still going to restore 20 points worth of HP per turn.

I honestly think those 4 SpD EVs would be better off tossed back into HP unless you want to mess with Download Porygon2/-Z or something. "Leftovers number" is such an overrated concept that doesn't actually help the majority of the time. In fact, I've seen far too many occasions where an analysis runs less than 252 HP EVs in order to hit a Leftovers number with the remainder placed into the defenses, which actually hurts the Pokemon's overall bulk while offering no real benefit. In this particular case, those 4 EVs probably aren't going to make that much of a difference, but putting them in HP will make Aegislash very slightly bulkier overall while also simplifying the EV spread, which is at least somewhat helpful.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Leftovers recovery doesn't work like that. The amount of recovery rounds down, not up. So if you have an HP stat anywhere from 320 to 335, you're still going to restore 20 points worth of HP per turn.

I honestly think those 4 SpD EVs would be better off tossed back into HP unless you want to mess with Download Porygon2/-Z or something. "Leftovers number" is such an overrated concept that doesn't actually help the majority of the time. In fact, I've seen far too many occasions where an analysis runs less than 252 HP EVs in order to hit a Leftovers number with the remainder placed into the defenses, which actually hurts the Pokemon's overall bulk while offering no real benefit. In this particular case, those 4 EVs probably aren't going to make that much of a difference, but putting them in HP will make Aegislash very slightly bulkier overall while also simplifying the EV spread, which is at least somewhat helpful.

I miss typed. Yes, it still recovers 20 HP per turn. But, 321 HP puts you above being divisible by 16, and therefore by 8. That minimizes the damage taken by Stealth Rock, Hail, and (most importantly to the sword) Spikes. As said in the article about HP numbers:

As stated before, to maximize or to not maximize depends almost entirely on your situation. For many of these Pokémon, maximizing HP also maximizes defensive capabilities, while having one point less can sometimes produce the same type of problems as mentioned when you maximize a base 70 Pokémon’s HP (For instance, a Deoxys-D with 303 HP takes 37 damage from Stealth Rock, and two rounds of leftovers recovery won’t completely heal it). However, as appealing as maximizing Leftovers recovery sounds, sandstorm and hail negate this advantage, and leaves your Pokémon suffering from increased indirect damage. If you have one of these weathers in your team, it is generally a bad idea to maximize the HP EVs of these Pokémon unless they are immune to it. However, when you do not have damaging weather on your side, it can go both ways. Do you wish to maximize the HP EVs of one of these Pokémon due to your own team, or do you maximize HP based on the possibility of sandstorm or hail? You should consider the frequency of these weathers in different metagames. For example, sandstorm is common in OU due to Hippowdon’s and Tyranitar’s presence, but it is quite rare in Ubers due to Kyogre and Groudon being everywhere, canceling out the sandstorm Tyranitar creates, or the hail Abomasnow brings. Therefore, it is safer to maximize HP of any of these Pokémon in the Uber metagame compared to the OU metagame. Also consider other factors such as Rapid Spin or Taunt that could prevent the set up on entry hazards. It would probably be a more preferable option to max HP when you have these and no damaging weather on your side (that hurts it obviously).

I personally don't like taking more damage than I should from Spikes. That's what the extra number is avoiding.

Additionally, I suppose the SpD aren't needed because how rare Download is now. I'll keep running them on my swords, but the analysis doesn't need them I suppose.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Yeah, entry hazard numbers are a lot more helpful since they'll cause you to take less damage every time you switch into Stealth Rock/Spikes (which, for some Pokemon, can happen a lot). However, moving those 4 EVs to HP in this case will bring Aegislash's HP to 322, which isn't divisible by 4, so it's not an issue.

 

[alexwolf]

The OP has been updated. I will probably make the CRUMBLER the first set, we all good with this?

 

[UltiMario]

Just sayin SpD should have Sub slashed with Pursuit. SubToxic Aegis is pre good.