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Pokémon Quagsire
- Thread starter Broken Wing
- Start date
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If your running curse why don't you invest into special defense so it can take a special hit once all the curses are up
Stockpile on Quagsire isn't really viable in OU, as the only reason you should be using it in the first place is as a check to set up sweepers (and only if you must). This is its only niche and it shouldn't be trying to do any other role. Purely defense boosting moves are really not that great on pokemon that don't have stored power anyways. Even with +3 SpD and D, Quagsire is still hits for a pittance, can easily be phazed, and is plagued by poison. Quagsire is also so weak that its going to have trouble finding the time to use 3 stockpiles in the first place.
It doesn't have to hit very hard with toxic on the move set. And it's not as "frail" as you make it out to be, it can last very long with recover
Not saying I think this should be OU or anything but it will be a great tank in UU.
Quagsire is pretty frail on the Special side and can be taken out by many special attackers even after a boost, choice specs or not.
Example of a neutral hit from a powerful OU wallbreaker (since this is in OU competitive discussion):
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 379-447 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +2 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 190-225 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Just to prevent someone from saying that these calcs are false, choice items go through unaware.
Because Quagsire with stockpile only has one attacking move, pretty much any team will have a pokemon that can resist toxic and deal with a pathetically weak move. Every pokemon that can phaze, can easily do so against Quagsire. Any pokemon with toxic can easily outspeed and poison Quagsire. This is a common problem with defensive boosting moves, and is why they're almost never used, except on pokemon with magic guard or magic bounce, and stored power.
Quagsire has no place using curse or stockpile as it doesn't really make an impact at all, and there are much better users of both moves. Its much to weak on the defensive and especially the offensive side to be a tank. There is literally only one reason to use Quagsire in OU (and UU too) and that is the defensive set, which is meant to switch in and out of set up sweepers as needed.
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I run:
CoolBoostsNerd (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Recover
- Curse
Heard a lot of people say to never run anything other than physical defense ev's on quagsire, but Quag is no Donphan. It's easy to switch in on a lot of stuff and set up a curse, putting him at 251 sp.def/309 def/310 atk, which ain't shabby with just one turn of set up. Thing is, this set worked amazingly with physically defensive Clefable in OU and I'm trying to find something to pair him with in UU. Probably going to end up going with florges.
CoolBoostsNerd (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Recover
- Curse
Heard a lot of people say to never run anything other than physical defense ev's on quagsire, but Quag is no Donphan. It's easy to switch in on a lot of stuff and set up a curse, putting him at 251 sp.def/309 def/310 atk, which ain't shabby with just one turn of set up. Thing is, this set worked amazingly with physically defensive Clefable in OU and I'm trying to find something to pair him with in UU. Probably going to end up going with florges.
And then what does Quagsire do with that Curse? Quagsire is never going to sweep against a competent player in OU, so trying to use a set is a wasted team slot. The only viable reason to run Quagsire is to run it as a check to some physical set up sweepers and then force them out with Yawn or attempt to stall them with Toxic.
I really love Quagsire he walls almost every physical attacker in the game I have won so many games by using the rest of my team to take out really strong special attackers, toxic and grass moves, and then bringing in Quagsire to mop up the rest
( he also can take out a surprising amount of pokemon you think he wouldnt be able to such as defensive Florges sets and dragon dance MegaGyarados )
( he also can take out a surprising amount of pokemon you think he wouldnt be able to such as defensive Florges sets and dragon dance MegaGyarados )
No. Megados is a hard Quag counter, it just needs a simple Sub or Taunt and you're screwed since Mold Breaker negates Unaware, it's pretty hard not to kill Quag with Megados unless you just play badly.
Quaggy has some absolutely amazing typing, but but that statline just plain sucks. He's my favourite pokemon, but I seriously doubt he'll find a serious place on an OU team.
Clefable packs some serious unpredictability with that massive moveset and 2 amazing abilities that allow it to work with a variety of playstyles, and has the ability to support its entire team through clerical duties.
Quagsire, sadly, is somewhat of a one-trick pony, with a trick that he's not even all too good at. If his defenses were high enough that he weren't almost instantly stuffed by any choice band user, he might be worth taking.
Clefable packs some serious unpredictability with that massive moveset and 2 amazing abilities that allow it to work with a variety of playstyles, and has the ability to support its entire team through clerical duties.
Quagsire, sadly, is somewhat of a one-trick pony, with a trick that he's not even all too good at. If his defenses were high enough that he weren't almost instantly stuffed by any choice band user, he might be worth taking.
I have faced Megados 5 times with Quagsire and never lost to him the thing is when he loses his flying typing he is open to earthquakes and MegaGyarados subs arent that hard to break. I have yet to come up against a taunt Gyarados but it goes with out saying that taunt would screw over any pokemon that relies on recover. The thing about Quagsire is you have to play smart and know when he can and can't take a hit. So considering he can take a hit from most of the ou meta game and is only ever KOed by grass moves he can be incredibly useful. He also completely screws baton pass teams.
Mega Garados should win against Quagsire:
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 262-309 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The only thing Quagsire can do is:
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 88-105 (26.5 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Also Quagsire is easily killed by strong special attackers, almost all specs users, many band users such as terrakion, and toxic.
theory and how things actually play out are 2 different things when using quagsire I can consistently get a burn and well as set up with infestation which is why I havent lost to a Mega Gyarados. like I said you play to Quagsires Strengths bringing him in against high attack sweepers or choice banded Pokemon stuck on a move you resist and then you can wear them down over time with out worrying about them switching out due to infestation. I have also had quagsire as the last pokemon on my team and won, while forced to use him against pokemon I never expected to beat such as porygon2, mega gengar, reuniclus, mega lucario, and slowbro
Personally, I find Unaware Quagsire one of the best set-up sweeper switch ins in the game. If it relies on boosting stats, quagsire will stop it.
if you dont expect to get a burn off it then there's no point in using scald on any pokemon
and if it were so unreliable we wouldn't see it as a part of every bulky water set and as common as it is
You don't expect a burn. You hope for one, but you certainly don't expect one, and the burn chance isn't reliable. Maybe after 3 or 4 scalds, then you start to expect a burn. Not 1. And in a Mega Gyara vs. Quag scenario, you only get one shot, maybe 2 if he doesn't 2HKO you.
considering one dragon dance waterfall hasn't been enough to 2HKO my quagsire yet I get 3 or more scalds which has been enough to get a burn or leave him open to earthquake. I can understand your numbers its just they haven't come in to play that way for me yet you talk very much like like so one who hasn't faced or used a quagsire before
He posted the calc showing that +1 Gyarados almost always 2HKOs full HP max defense Quagsire. It doesn't matter if this has never happened to you, it still happens 75% of the time. So basically you need to either burn with the first scald or manage to live the second hit and burn with the second scald. This has a very low chance of success (I estimate that you have a little more than 30% chance to beat Mega Gyarados). Basically quagsire can beat lots of stuff, but usually will lose to Mega-Gyarados.
I guess I will just count my blessings then for my 5 in a row win streak against mega Gyarados then and expect the possibility that next time I pull up quagsire against one it may not go so well but such is the nature of the game where you can have a dark pulse flinch you 3 times in row and then on the 3rd time crit you as well
Also irritatingly it happens to get round Infestation as well, which I'm convinced is a in game glitch Gamefreak overlooked since there is no text to indicate something changed. Even if you've been able to trap them with the infestation effect setting up a Substitute instantly cancels out both the passive damage and trap effect.
my quagsire just single handedly swept through a team of ubers made up of Arceus-Electric,[URL='http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/giratina.3498279'] Giratina[/URL], and Mega-Kangaskhan. My ego is so inflated right now I cant stand it
Quagsire with amnesia is a lot better then I thought bring him in on a Pokemon you know will switch out when they see him(any thing that relies on physical attacks) and on the predicted switch boost your special defense and he becomes able to tank hits from even monsters like mega gengar and he also can tank some non stab grass attacks
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