XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)

[SHUCKLE MAN]

^ You'll be happy to know they already voted on two of those last round, but they both got 5 out of 12 votes to ban. They could get voted on again though.

I wish people would read the posts linked in the OP.

Anyway, a few more things just got sent to BL now that the vote has concluded.

Here's the list of the items we voted on and the total of "ban" votes out of 12.

Chandelure - 2
Chansey - 2
Diggersby - 3
Gardevoirite - 5
Haxorus - 1
Hydreigon - 3
Jirachi - 3
Keldeo - 1
Medichamite - 5
Staraptor - 10
Terrakion - 11
Wobbuffet - 12

So Wobbuffet was banned unanimously, Terrakion and Staraptor nearly so, and Medichamite and Gardevoirite were barely spared.

Expect the next round of bans in about a week or a week and a half.

That is all.

 

[Ununhexium]

ok so here's a couple of things I could see getting banned:

Kyurem: Huge bulk, huge offenses, completely demolishes stall teams thanks to Pressure + SubRoost, the only reason why this thing is still around imo is because it's getting low usage (the noobs strike again). It's honestly not much more manageable than cube and deserves a ban.

Mega Gardevoir: I'll cut to the chase by giving you a list of UU viable mons that aren't 2HKO'd by either Hyper Voice or Psyshock:
- Chansey
- Metagross
- Magnezone
- Porygon2 (non-specially defensive variants are 2HKO'd after any layer of hazards though)
- Victini
- Cresselia
- Bronzong (if that's still a thing in UU, at least)
- Assault Vest users that aren't weak to either move, I suppose

Well, that's not a whole lot. Now consider the fact that of these Pokemon, Chansey, Porygon, Cresselia and most Assault Vest users can't actually KO back, that most of these are screwed over by Shadow Ball and that Mega Gardevoir tends to run Calm Mind to raise her SpA to even more absurd levels and you can see that you simply can't switch into her safely. Meanwhile, a good typing and high SpD means that she does have plenty of switchin opportunity, and her speed isn't too shabby either, making it simply too much of a force.

Mega Medicham: If you don't have Doublade, something dies. End of story.

There's just a couple of mons that I quickly found to be broken or at least worthy of a suspect. Have a nice day.

kyurem: stealth rocks weakness and has a disappointing speed. has a weakness to priority moves and ice is a bad defensive typing.

mega gardevoir: i dont really know what to say but it is manageable. ive killed many a gardevoir in my day

mega medicham: im on the fenece about him

also, kyurem would probably be BL because its too strong but doesnt achieve high enough OU usage

 

[termi]

kyurem: stealth rocks weakness and has a disappointing speed. has a weakness to priority moves and ice is a bad defensive typing.

mega gardevoir: i dont really know what to say but it is manageable. ive killed many a gardevoir in my day

mega medicham: im on the fenece about him

also, kyurem would probably be BL because its too strong but doesnt achieve high enough OU usage

Well, mons that are banned automatically end up in Bl as long as their usage isn't high enough for OU.

So anyways, of the times that you killed a Mega Gardevoir, how many times did you do so without losing at least one mon yourself?

 

[Mudkip727]

this metagame seems interesting. is there already a good core i can base my team on?

One of the more defensive cores are as rowdog said, florges and mega aggron/doublade both compliments each others type very well, though a ground/fire resistance like zygarde, rotom-h, hydriegon is needed... The classic F/W/G core works well too. UU is filled with very good fire and water types such as darmantian, victini, rotom-H, arcanine, swampert, slowbro. There's like only three-four good grass type pokemon in UU in the shape pf shaymin(which I think is getting forgotten), two spikers (ches naught, roserade)

Cofagrigus also works well with florges/snorlax as well
as assualt vest slowbro. Cofagrigus even got a new toy! (Toxic spikes). Stuff like mew and zapdos are pokemon that can fit into pretty much every defensive cores. But one thing u should be careful with defensive cores: beware of hyper-offence oriented pokemon like diggersby or spammable dangerous moves like Knock off as they can, if played right destroy your defensive cores.

As for offensive cores, mega blastoise & darmanitan & life orb roserade is a good example. Abusing megas in offensive corrs is always a good idea(usually).

 

[Mudkip727]

Well, mons that are banned automatically end up in Bl as long as their usage isn't high enough for OU.

So anyways, of the times that you killed a Mega Gardevoir, how many times did you do so without losing at least one mon yourself?

Actually if I'm not mistaken and the uu cutoff is 3.4%, according to the janurary usage stats, kyurem is going to be RU. Though I think it will be banned right after it gets its attention back. Lots of past UU threats are actually being forgotten while still being powerfull. Snorlax, suicune, shaymin, sharpedo, reuniclus, zoroark, rhyperior, honchkrow, flygon, porygon-z, azelf, krookodile, mismagius, zygarde, milotic, houndoom, scrafty, gastrodon, raikou are all under the UU cutoff!! Funny thing is that entei is actually higher than suicune and raikou... Finally swampert overtakes gastrodon!!

 

[termi]

Actually if I'm not mistaken and the uu cutoff is 3.4%, according to the janurary usage stats, kyurem is going to be RU. Though I think it will be banned right after it gets its attention back. Lots of past UU threats are actually being forgotten while still being powerfull. Snorlax, suicune, shaymin, sharpedo, reuniclus, zoroark, rhyperior, honchkrow, flygon, porygon-z, azelf, krookodile, mismagius, zygarde, milotic, houndoom, scrafty, gastrodon, raikou are all under the UU cutoff!! Funny thing is that entei is actually higher than suicune and raikou... Finally swampert overtakes gastrodon!!

I can see Kyurem being banned in mere minutes once RU goes up. Zygarde, Suicune and Raikou are also good candidates for a quickban in RU, the rest of these mons can honestly settle in RU without becoming too powerful imo.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

With all this talk of ru, when will the beta version of it be playable on ps?

I don't know. It'll be started when Molk thinks RU is ready apparently. I don't see the harm in starting one now, but maybe they're waiting until we have 3 months of UU usage stats?

If you're interested, there's a thread in the BW RU forum where they're playing and discussing the RU metagame based on last month's UU stats: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-look-into-the-possible-future.3492167/page-5

 

[Golemman]

I don't know. It'll be started when Molk thinks RU is ready apparently. I don't see the harm in starting one now, but maybe they're waiting until we have 3 months of UU usage stats?

If you're interested, there's a thread in the BW RU forum where they're playing and discussing the RU metagame based on last month's UU stats: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-look-into-the-possible-future.3492167/page-5

Thanks I'll look into it.
Also guys good points about salamence, maybe he will be a more balanced threat in uu than I thought

 

[radianthero156]

doublade's typing and defense sound cool too. i think it could be a good partner for megardevoir; what set should i use for the former, though?

and for the latter? calm mind seems to be very powerful

 

[Loudo]

Mega Gardevoir: I'll cut to the chase by giving you a list of UU viable mons that aren't 2HKO'd by either Hyper Voice or Psyshock:
- Chansey
- Metagross
- Magnezone
- Porygon2 (non-specially defensive variants are 2HKO'd after any layer of hazards though)
- Victini
- Cresselia
- Bronzong (if that's still a thing in UU, at least)
- Assault Vest users that aren't weak to either move, I suppose

I use a defensive Arcanine in my team and although I didn't add it for this specific reason I discovered that most of the time it works as a Mega Gardevoir check (provided she doesn't have Psychic instead of Psyshock). It resists Hyper Voice, Psyshock is only a 3HKO because defensive wall (duh!), and non-super effective Shadow Ball is weak.

But if Mega Gardevoir gets banned I definitely won't complain. XD

 

[noknuckles]

But, they can take donphan on 1 vs 1 using their STABs and not to mention roserade can now as of gen 6, use sleep powder and chesnaught can use spikey shielto break sturdy and KO with wood hammer or taunt it from using SR. I think they will rise instead of the other way around. As they are the hazard setter that can reliably set up hazardd WHILE destroying the opposing spinner IF as kingpoleon said blastoise goes to OU

I wasn't saying that the likes of Donphan will rise in response to Roserade/Chesnaught, that's completely insane. I was talking in completely general terms. That people would consider spinners (in general) if they thought spikers threatened them too much. I don't think players think to themselves "hmm Donphan may join the tier, let's use spikers." They'll just use spikers as part of their strategy (regardless of Donphan) and if it just so happens that the spinners suck, they're more likely to use spiking strategies. The presence of Donphan isn't going to encourage Roserade/Chesnaught. It'll be completely neutral. People will use Roserade with or without Donphan, Donphan's usage isn't gonna affect Roserade.

Imagine the tier as is, without Donphan. What is Roserade's usage? Now imagine the exact same tier with Donphan inserted into it. How does this affect Roserade's usage? (I don't think it affects Roserade at all, let alone increase its usage)

I read Golemman's post again and I probably misread it. It seemed to me like he was saying Donphan joining the tier would increase Roserade's usage, but I think he was just saying that Blastoise can hit Roserade harder than Donphan can so his post was more about Blastoise's absence in the tier than Donphan's presence. Having the best spinner removed from the tier seems like it ought to have an effect on spiker usage but I don't think Blastoise affects Roserade/Chesnaught usage. I just don't see Blastoise's removal from the tier as an added reason to use Roserade/Chesnaught

 

[Golemman]

I wasn't saying that the likes of Donphan will rise in response to Roserade/Chesnaught, that's completely insane. I was talking in completely general terms. That people would consider spinners (in general) if they thought spikers threatened them too much. I don't think players think to themselves "hmm Donphan may join the tier, let's use spikers." They'll just use spikers as part of their strategy (regardless of Donphan) and if it just so happens that the spinners suck, they're more likely to use spiking strategies. The presence of Donphan isn't going to encourage Roserade/Chesnaught. It'll be completely neutral. People will use Roserade with or without Donphan, Donphan's usage isn't gonna affect Roserade.

Imagine the tier as is, without Donphan. What is Roserade's usage? Now imagine the exact same tier with Donphan inserted into it. How does this affect Roserade's usage? (I don't think it affects Roserade at all, let alone increase its usage)

I read Golemman's post again and I probably misread it. It seemed to me like he was saying Donphan joining the tier would increase Roserade's usage, but I think he was just saying that Blastoise can hit Roserade harder than Donphan can so his post was more about Blastoise's absence in the tier than Donphan's presence. Having the best spinner removed from the tier seems like it ought to have an effect on spiker usage but I don't think Blastoise affects Roserade/Chesnaught usage. I just don't see Blastoise's removal from the tier as an added reason to use Roserade/Chesnaught

I was just thinking that if the quality of spinners in uu decreases, then the quantity of hazard setters would increase. They won't have a huge threatening mon waiting to spin them away. Donphan cannot touch Chesnaught or things like cofagrigus and weezing (idk) so it is much easier for them to set up hazards. Blastoise can defend himself from common hazard setters and blockers very well with dark pulse and ice beam.
I definitely could be wrong, but if we lose blastoise then Donphan or not hazard setters will have a much easier time accomplishing their job.
Then of course, there are defoggers, but they have a few downsides of their own

 

[Grimey]

Mega Medicham is absolutely absurd. Out of curiosity, can someone name a single Pokemon (barring Doublade) that isn't effectively 2HKO by Medicham's coverage? I've come up completely blank trying to find a good Poke that can effectively handle Medicham. Using stuff like Spiritomb is gross and I'm actually surprised that I see people on the uu ladder NOT playing Medicham as their Mega.

 

[Haru Piro]

Mega Medicham is absolutely absurd. Out of curiosity, can someone name a single Pokemon (barring Doublade) that isn't effectively 2HKO by Medicham's coverage? I've come up completely blank trying to find a good Poke that can effectively handle Medicham. Using stuff like Spiritomb is gross and I'm actually surprised that I see people on the uu ladder NOT playing Medicham as their Mega.

Yeah, Cofa:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Super Gour is nice too:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Slowbro can check Mcham:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mew
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Jelli can beat non-Thunder Punch Mcham.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Arkian]

Mega Medicham is absolutely absurd. Out of curiosity, can someone name a single Pokemon (barring Doublade) that isn't effectively 2HKO by Medicham's coverage? I've come up completely blank trying to find a good Poke that can effectively handle Medicham. Using stuff like Spiritomb is gross and I'm actually surprised that I see people on the uu ladder NOT playing Medicham as their Mega.

Reuniclus.

Seriously, people need to start using this thing more. Not only does it check Mega Medicham, but is also a great Pokemon to get rid of walls such as Florges, Latias, Slowbro, etc. It can even sweep late-game as long as Dark-types are gone. Stall and defensive teams, while rare, are completely demolished by Reuniclus. It also runs fairly effective Trick Room sets, turning fast, frail Pokemon like Weavile into easy pickings. Overall, Reuniclus is one of the better bulky sweepers in UU.

 

[sparktrain]

doublade's typing and defense sound cool too. i think it could be a good partner for megardevoir; what set should i use for the former, though?

and for the latter? calm mind seems to be very powerful

I've been using this set for Doublade with reasonable success

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SDef / 116 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance

The EVs/nature let Doublade OHKO Megacham with Shadow Sneak at +2. With Bisharp gone it's a lot easier for Doublade to come in on something it walls and set up a Swords Dance. Haven't really used Mega Gardevoir myself yet, but the offensive Calm Mind variants imo have been the most threatening when I've faced them. Another interesting teammate for Doublade is Hydreigon. Together, these two resist literally every type in the game, making them a potent core.

 

[Jellied Eels]

Hydreigon + pretty much any Steel-type is really good to be honest. I've been trying out LO U-turn Hydreigon and Jirachi together and it's just really solid. Here's the full offensive core :

Hide

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Hasty | 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Dark Pulse / Draco Meteor / U-turn / Roost

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Careful | 252 HP / 160 SpDef / 96 Spe
Iron Head / Ice Punch / Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock

Medicham @ Medichamite
Jolly | 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
High Jump Kick / Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt / Bullet Punch

With additional paralysis support from like Body Slam Snorlax these guys can really do work. They have great offensive synergy, with Hydreigon being a great switch-in to Slowbro and the other Ghost- or Psychic-types that check M-Medicham and Jirachi dealing with both Florges and Mega-Gardevoir. All three of them have trouble with bulky Ground-types so stuff like Hippo is very easily worn down over the course of the match. Not to mention you can tweak them a lot depending on your other teammates eg. Thunder Punch on Medicham, Fire Blast over Roost, Substitute over SR...

 

[jamashawalker]

Yeah, Cofa:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Super Gour is nice too:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Slowbro can check Mcham:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mew
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Jelli can beat non-Thunder Punch Mcham.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Change all of those to Adamant and they will turn into a higher chance to 2HKO. Which Adamant has been popular lately.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Does anyone think Lucario might drop down, now that Lucarionite has been banned? And if it does, do you think it'd go to BL. It was B+ in OU last gen, so there is a possibility.

Additionally, with the banning of Lucarionite, I think Medicham, Gardevoir, and Blastoise may leave, due to the free mega slot on a lot of teams now. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Haru Piro]

Change all of those to Adamant and they will turn into a higher chance to 2HKO. Which Adamant has been popular lately.

All of them can burn Mcham anyway. Doublade, Slowbro, Mew and Cofa still being good checks.
Mcham is a good mon, a true S-tier, but not broken.

Does anyone think Lucario might drop down, now that Lucarionite has been banned? And if it does, do you think it'd go to BL. It was B+ in OU last gen, so there is a possibility.

Additionally, with the banning of Lucarionite, I think Medicham, Gardevoir, and Blastoise may leave, due to the free mega slot on a lot of teams now. Thoughts anyone?

UU can handle MCham and Keldeo, Base-Lucario is not a problem.

And yeah, Cham and Blas can leave UU. Gardevoir still being too weak for OU.

 

[SwampertGuru]

Yeah, Cofa:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Super Gour is nice too:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Slowbro can check Mcham:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mew
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Jelli can beat non-Thunder Punch Mcham.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 52.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 170-202 (45.4 - 54%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Those look like very shaky counters after SR to me.

 

[noknuckles]

I was just thinking that if the quality of spinners in uu decreases, then the quantity of hazard setters would increase. They won't have a huge threatening mon waiting to spin them away. Donphan cannot touch Chesnaught or things like cofagrigus and weezing (idk) so it is much easier for them to set up hazards. Blastoise can defend himself from common hazard setters and blockers very well with dark pulse and ice beam.
I definitely could be wrong, but if we lose blastoise then Donphan or not hazard setters will have a much easier time accomplishing their job.
Then of course, there are defoggers, but they have a few downsides of their own

It makes sense that if spinners, on a whole, are worse than spikers, then there'd be more good reason for spiker usage to go up (last gen UU). I think the comment that confused me was that Donphan coming down would affect spike usage, when you were (I believe) in fact making a point about Blastoise, not Donphan

The defoggers are a bigger deterrent to spikers than Blastoise. Crobat and Latias are two things Rose/Chesnaught have to seriously take into consideration when team building, whereas I think Ice Beam Blastoise is just one of those things they keep in the back of their minds. They don't necessarily need to think about it when building the team, but they certainly need to be aware of it in-battle.

I think those two defoggers are so much more threatening to them that Blastoise's potential departure from the tier is gonna be very minor for Roserade/Chesnaught.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Does anyone think Lucario might drop down, now that Lucarionite has been banned? And if it does, do you think it'd go to BL. It was B+ in OU last gen, so there is a possibility.

It probably will. It's not that fast and is pretty frail, and without adaptability it priority moves won't hit so hard. I actually think it'd be balanced in UU.

Additionally, with the banning of Lucarionite, I think Medicham, Gardevoir, and Blastoise may leave, due to the free mega slot on a lot of teams now. Thoughts anyone?

Blastoise (#51) is going up, which is annoying because it's literally UU's only good spinner. What else is there? Hitmontop? Fuck that.

Gardevoir and Medicham could rise too.

 

[Golemman]

It makes sense that if spinners, on a whole, are worse than spikers, then there'd be more good reason for spiker usage to go up (last gen UU). I think the comment that confused me was that Donphan coming down would affect spike usage, when you were (I believe) in fact making a point about Blastoise, not Donphan

The defoggers are a bigger deterrent to spikers than Blastoise. Crobat and Latias are two things Rose/Chesnaught have to seriously take into consideration when team building, whereas I think Ice Beam Blastoise is just one of those things they keep in the back of their minds. They don't necessarily need to think about it when building the team, but they certainly need to be aware of it in-battle.

I think those two defoggers are so much more threatening to them that Blastoise's potential departure from the tier is gonna be very minor for Roserade/Chesnaught.

Yes that's what I meant. And crobat and latias do keep them in check which is good.
Ooh and also, I just did a battle on ps and all the mons are huge 3D sprites. I don't really like it because they are half the screen size, kinda annoying. Does anyone know if that's permanent or am I the only one who is bothered by it?

 

[Alan]

Blastoise (#51) is going up, which is annoying because it's literally UU's only good spinner. What else is there? Hitmontop? Fuck that.

Watch your mouth, son. Assault Vest Hitmontop is a legend at taking hits man. Also who the fuck gives a shit about spinners when you have this awesome move called defog that, *gasp* isn't type-blocked.