XY UU Beta Research Week #1

[Mazz]

Approved by kokoloko.

Welcome, UUers and all those looking for an excellent comp. 'mons experience! A fresh tier means a fresh installment of Research Group!

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:

• Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• Sign-Ups close Monday nights (about three and a half days of sign-ups), so be sure to sign up before they close!

This Week's Research Pokemon:

Gardevoir | Exploud | Milotic | Magnezone | Mega-Banette
​

How useful are these Pokemon in XYUU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the XYUU Hub Hall of Fame (once it exists).

Current Participants:
-Rohail (Gardevoir / Milotic)
-Grimey (Magnezone)
-TPO3 (Gardevoir)
-alexwolf (Gardevoir)
-Patrick1088 (Exploud)
-1withthebutterfly (Milotic / Mega-Banette)
-Soulmuse (Gardevoir)
-dbzmariogeno (Gardevoir / Exploud / Magnezone)
-Hakumen (Gardevoir)
-Seargent Spooky (Gardevoir / Mega-Banette)
-WeatherOfChoice (Mega-Banette)
-CoolStoryBrobat (Exploud / Milotic)
-BlackyXD (Milotic)
-Ash Borer (Mega-Banette)
-DopestDope (Exploud)
-eaglehawk (Milotic)
-Robert Alfons (Magnezone)
-Garchomp for president (Magnezone)
-Magolor (Exploud / Magnezone)

Sign-Ups are now closed; I look forward to seeing any other members interested in this project on Thursday for the next installment of Research Week!

 

[watashi]

mega banette is regarded as one of the shitter megas but it's the only pokemon with prankster destiny bond which could give it a niche.

Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak / Taunt

just knock off and burn things and take something out after you're done. idk if max attack is the best idea but i can't think of a better spread atm. as for laddering i'm too lazy to do that so i'll just post this so other people have an idea of what they could use with banette since it's not really the easiet mon to come up with a set for

 

[Arkian]

Alt: Fairycrab
Pokemon being used: Gardevoir and Milotic

proof of clean alt

Will post later with ladder record and findings :)

Edit: okay, I'll use Milotic instead

 

[Mazz]

Alt: Fairycrab
Pokemon being used: Gardevoir and Crawdaunt

proof of clean alt

Will post later with ladder record and findings :)

Crawdaunt was dropped after some internal discussion on IRC. Sorry for any inconveniences.

 

[Grimey]

Alt: Crooked Smile
Pokemon: Magnezone

 

[TPO3]

Alt: Marilize Legajuana
Pokemon: Gardevoir

I dunno how good Gardevoir is actually going to be, but with the new Fairy typing, I'm excited to give it a try. n_n

 

[alexwolf]

Alt: ela pou eis
Pokemon being used: Gardevoir

 

[ryan]

I probably won't ladder extensively for this, but Magnezone is a really cool Pokemon in UU. Though not completely worthless, I don't care much for Magnet Pull Magnezone, I guess mainly because most of the scary stuff that wanted Steel-types dead (Mega Gardevoir, Staraptor, Diggersby to an extent because it didn't like Bronzong, etc.) is currently banned. But Analytic Magnezone is really fucking strong. Not only can it get the Analytic boost on forced switches, but it's also a naturally slow Pokemon, which means that it's not very difficult to get the boost consistently throughout the match. Although I haven't used Magnezone too much, I've faced it quite a few times, and I've found both Choice Specs and Assault Vest to be fairly popular choices. I don't see Assault Vest being quite as valuable without Mega Gardevoir in the tier, but because Magnezone's movepool is ass outside of its STABs, Volt Switch, and a choice of Hidden Power, I'm sure it's still viable.

Milotic still seems pretty bad to me, kind of like last generation, but unlike Magnezone, it's not something I have any experience using or much experience facing, meaning this is mostly theorymon. I suppose it'd be a cool check to Keldeo, but with Celebi, Latias, Suicune, Slowbro, Amoonguss, Roserade, Assault Vest Tangrowth, etc. all being pretty good in the metagame, that's not exactly a hard role to fill with something else. Its new ability, Competitive, might give it some niche as an anti-Defog Pokemon, especially considering that +2 Ice Beam has a huge chance to KO Latias while it fails to 2HKO with anything barring the rare Thunderbolt/Energy Ball. But Zapdos destroys it, so I'm not even sure how solid it would be at that.

 

[Patrick1088]

Ill definitely try this..
Alt: mr.1088_007 (will create tonight)
Pokemon: exploud

A choice specs boosted boomburst that isnt blocked by ghosts thanks to scrappy makes exploud a great choice. I plan on pairing this up with sticky web and pursuit support for latias to just tear holes in teams..

 

[1withthebutterfly]

Seems like fun, and I've got some time to ladder a little.

Alt: 2withthebutterfly
Pokemon: Mega-Banette and Milotic

Mega-Banette has some merit as a stall/defensive Mega, preying on offensive teams with its Priority Will-o-Wisp and Destiny Bond. No idea if that will work or not, looking forward to finding out. Milotic has always been bulky, so I wonder how well it will stand up to the offensive threats of Gen VI UU.

 

[SoulMuse]

Alt: SoulMuse
Pokemon being used: Gardevoir

Might use some other pokemon as well, we shall see.

 

[1withthebutterfly]

Yeah, I know its only been a few hours, but after fifteen games I've decided that its time for me to turn in for the night. Might as well post my thoughts before I go.

The pair of Milotic and Mega-Banette drew me towards a stall team, for different reasons. Milotic is an exceptionally bulky Pokemon with access to reliable recovery and Mega-Banette's priority Taunt and Will-o-Wisp allow it to function as an excellent Spin-Blocker once it mega evolves, and as everyone knows Priority Destiny Bond can be used to prevent a last ditch effort from the opponent. The exact sets I used were

Hide

Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Scald
- Dragon Tail

I partnered these two with Roserade, Chansey, Hippowdon and Rotom-H (which I quickly replaced with Assault Vest Metagross). Roserade and Hippowdon set Hazards, Chansey played Cleric and Metagross gave me a bulky offensive Pokemon to apply pressure to a worn down team, and revenge with Bullet Punch. Obviously not the best team around, and likely not the optimal environment for these two, but I threw it together quickly so that I could get some laddering in before bed.

Milotic performed admirably, Competitive allowing it to capitalise on the abundance of Sticky Web, Defog and Intimidate in the tier. After a Defog, Milotic can fire off powerful Ice Beams and Scalds with no investment, and considering that all Defog users bar Mew in the tier are weak to either Ice Beam or Scald can scare off or KO the opponent's means of removing Hazards. 4 HP/0 SpDef Latias is taking 68.2 - 80.7% from a +2 Ice Beam, and can offer a 5HKO in return. Due to how naturally bulky the Team was, after Milotic removed the opponent's Defogger, I was usually able to set up Hazards again.

When not taking advantage of Competitive to become an impromptu attacker, Milotic pulled her weight easily with her natural bulk and durability. Dragon Tail kept her from becoming set-up bait, and quickly racked up damage when combined with Spikes and SR.

Overall, I was very impressed with Milotic. I was able to switch her into powerful neutral hits over and over again without too much worry, and between Scald and Ice Beam she could retaliate against most attackers. There's no getting around it though, Suicune is going to give her a lot of competition for team slots. Competitive is a useful tool, and in my opinion her biggest asset over the Crown Beast, but Milotic's inferior bulk and inability to boost her stats on your own terms lets her down a lot.

Mega-Banette was really awesome... if it managed to Mega Evolve safely. Banette's frailty and glacial speed gave it few opportunities to safely transform into its more threatening Mega form, especially against more aggressive teams. The ubiquity of Knock Off limited his ability to switch into Pokemon that he would otherwise have an easy time against, especially fighting types like Mienshao. Until he Mega-Evolves, Banette feels like a lead weight around the team's ankles. Finding a safe time to switch him in is critical, because otherwise you might as well be playing 5-6.

But once Mega-Banette gets going, I had nothing but positive experiences. Prankster is just an amazing tool in Banette's arsenal, crippling attackers with Will-o-Wisp, shutting down support pokemon with Taunt and assassinating threats with Destiny Bond were all extremely powerful effects.

The problem was reconciling that utility with the difficulty of accessing it. I've only played fifteen games with this team, but M-Banette has contributed least in those games by a wide margin. Two or three times I've managed to get him out and he's done a massive amount of work, securing one or two KOs and supporting the team, but in six or seven games he wasn't used at all, death fodder if anything. Maybe that's my bad, and of course I'm still learning the best situations to utilise him in, but so far I'm very much on the fence.

That said, every time I've needed M-Banette to spin block, he's done an amazing job. Even Mega-Blastoise, the premier Spinner in the tier, can't successfully Spin past M-Banette. Dark Pulse is a 2HKO, giving Banette the opportunity to switch in on the predicted Aura Sphere/Rapid Spin, Mega Evolve and scare off Blastoise with Destiny Bond. If they want to trade Mega for Mega, that's something I'm usually fine with, because it usually means I'm taking their only means of removing my hazards too.

 

[RotomPoison]

Alt: Geno UU
Pokemon: Gardevoir, Magnezone, Exploud

Sorry i'm late. I tried making a team with all 3 because why not, will post soon.

 

[Hakumen]

Alt: Kraid
Pokemon: Gardevoir

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Alt: Ronald W. Reagan
Pokemon: Gardevoir, Mega Banette

 

[WeatherOfChoice]

Looks like fun

Alt: GhostPipes
Pokemon: M-Banette

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

I think I'll give this a shot...

Alt: The Ugly Binacle
Pokemon: Exploud & Milotic

I figure I'll give Milotic and Exploud a go at it since I've used Magnezone extensively, a pretty deadly Specs User in UU with Analytic. I dunno much about Exploud other than the fact Scrappy Boomburst is bound to give people headaches. Milotic's a 'mon I haven't seen used much due to being mostly outclassed by several other bulky waters both this and last gen. But I got some plans for it, hehe...I don't think I'm gonna use them on the same team though, but I will give a shot for these guys

 

[BlackyXD]

I have been wanting to try out milotic, so

Alt:Rhyane
Pokemon: Milotic

 

[Ash Borer]

Mega Banette interests me ill ladder with it for a bit

UU doesnt have a deep pool of ridiculous priority users (sup talonflame) so sometimes crap like agility or smash pass can beat hyper offensive teams cleanly. PRiority Destiny bond patches this up pretty nicely.

Nick: Banette Ash
it's clean

Here are some ladder matches against some boosters, some with.. interesting movesets, that threaten to sweep my offensive team, and banette says no.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-90604627
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-90625124

very useful actually.

 

[DopestDope]

Alt: DopestAlt
Pokemon: Exploud

 

[1withthebutterfly]

40 Games logged so far with Milotic and Mega-Banette, with a rating of 1447 as of this post.

Basically just confirming my original thoughts on the matter; Mega-Banette is amazing once it gets going, providing a ridiculously versatile tool in (I'd assume) any team's Arsenal. Taunt / Will-o-Wisp / Destiny Bond / Knock Off is the best moveset that I've used so far; other, more gimmicky sets that I experimented with were a Toxic Staller with Protect / Substitute / Destiny Bond / Taunt that used Substitute to lower its own HP so that it would ensure that the next attacker would KO it, and drag it down with Destiny Bond, and a RestTalk set with Will-o-Wisp and Knock Off.

M-Banette has the potential to be amazing at any stage of the game, and fully invested in HP and SpDef has a surprising amount of bulk. Some replays that M-Banette was instrumental in;

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uubeta-90690926 (ignore the chat)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uubeta-90709710
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uubeta-90714739

Milotic has far exceeded my expectations; Competitive is very, very good, and its bulk makes it more than able to utilise it. Milotic's inherent Special Defenses allow it to survive even powerful super-effective hits, meaning that Milotic can come in on even Zapdos's Defog, survive the Thunderbolt and fire off a devastating Ice Beam. She's able to switch into Darmanitan or Victini for days, and even without leftovers her recovery is no joke.

She does have immense difficulty bypassing Chansey and Empoleon, however, and Dragon Tail seems like her best option against both if there are still Pokemon that she can clean up with her +2 Ice Beams and Scalds, so pairing her with Pokemon that can deal with those Special walls seems essential.

Some replays wherein Milotic did some good work.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uubeta-90652375
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uubeta-90657428

Ignore my occasionally terrible play, I'm pretty bad at this game :P

 

[Banner]

Not so much participating, but more or so giving a little bit of insight on two of the mons I've seen that're under Research:

Exploud: Scrappy Specs Boomburst is annoying to deal with, and not many can get over it unless they're running an Umbreon, Milotic, or Chansey (Given I haven't looked at all the bulky special mons). Defensively, Exploud can't really carry on, so it's relying on it's new favorite move to really survive, and since most mons will be taking a massive hit from this thing, Exploud's Boomburst will be a somewhat tough situation to get out of.

Milotic: The other mon that I've encountered the most, and I've seen some weird sets today. Predominately paying in OU, I'm more used to seeing Marvel Scale on nearly any and all Milotic, so seeing Competitive Milotic was something I wasn't accustomed to. Combined with Assault Vest, it was able to take a lot of hits, and since a good portion of moves like Crunch or Shadow Ball, and getting the respective drop to trigger Competitive, the Scalds and Ice Beams really didn't seem to be doing too much more than it already did. Sure the Lefties set allowed for Toxic and Recover, but that's just more standard over anything really popping out at me to be of interest to look into for a UU team.

 

[Patrick1088]

So, yeah Exploud is pretty beastly. I thought that 90-something base sp. atk was pretty medicore, but that Boomburst hits hard. He is slow, really slow. I paired him up with Sticky Web and ran the below set:

Exploud@ Choice Specs
Scrappy
Modest Nature
248 HP/ 252 Sp Attack/ 8 Speed
-Boomburst
-Focus Blast
-Fire Blast
-Ice Beam

To be 100% honest, clicking Boom Burst is all he has ever done. Obviously Rock and Steel Types are a pain. But, if you match it with Crawdaunt, then you have Gruesome Twosome. EVs look wonky, but they have a purpose. 8 speed EVs allows Exploud to be faster than non-scarf 252 EV +Speed Nature 108s after Sticky Web (Keldeo, Cobalion, Mienshao, Manectric before it evolves, etc..) and almost OHKO all of them with Boomburst, or FB for Cobalion. Scarfed pokes are a HUGE threat to Exploud, specifically Scarf Moxie Hera, Keldeo, since they are not "affected" by Sticky Web and can easily OHKO. Overall, my experience with Exploud is very positive. Outside of a Sticky Web team, I'm sure that he can find use a QuiverPass Receiver (similar to Nido), it could be used on Trick Room (but base 68 speed is a tad fast). I think if you're looking for a poke that hits hard that can differentiate itself from the Nidos, then Exploud may be your choice. The top thing that really separates it from the Nidos is that Boomburst hits ghosts and through subs.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Alt: Cptn. Dolphin
Pokemon: Milotic

 

[termi]

Alt: Ege Bamyasi
Pokemon: Magnezone

View attachment 9644

Quick thoughts pre-laddering: magnezone stronk :o