This is what bothers me: does no one agree that you can easily use the +2 atk to sweep if you do it right? I can't tell you how often I've swaggered a garchomp who subsequently snapped out of confusion and swept my entire teaman with +2 EQ. Like seriously. It isn't even worth discussing banning. If you ban this, you might as well ban togekiss for paraflinch. This topic is so stupid.
That could be fair. Though then that opens up the can of marbles is it one Pokemon that actually uses Prankster-Swagger-Foul Play-T Wave, or one that has the ability to use it?
Of these, Xatu is unviable, Espeon is bad, and Mega Absol takes up a Mega slot, and does not have Magic Bounce on the first turn.
This is the wrong attitude. It doesn't matter that SwagPlay has counters. The fact of that matter is that just the use of Swagger turns the battle into a coinflip. It is a strategy that can allow worse players to beat better players and is entirely unskillful. If you cannot argue this core point then you're wasting your time. 45% odds w/ accuracy, whatever, it's a coinflip.
Magic Coat acts as a check, yes. But, if you switch in to a Swagger, you're still confused, and if you proceed to hurt yourself in confusion rather than Magic Coat, well...
I'm willing to call this an effective strategy. You have paralyzed an opponent's team, and now you're sweeping it. If this is swagger phazing for you to do this, it is not only completely legitimate, it is something that can be used as an EFFECTIVE strategy. There's no reason I can't do this WITHOUT prankster, so why do I have to lose my ability to phaze something and twave without going to -7 to phaze? A team such as that is not the source of the problem here, is it?
I see /vp/ has found this thread, given the amount of 1-5 post users are suddenly replying to it.
Almost any. There are countless pokemon who do learn it from 5th gen and below.
Because getting outlucked is really stopped by being good.
lol ban Kyogre there are things called Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn o3o.
Never heard of own tempo, probably because IT SUCKS.
Expect for the fact that you can bring in faster Pokemon and take it out. When you play against a SwagPlay team, bringing in a faster Pokemon doesn't help since Prankster beats you regardless of speed.
lol.
So abusing luck to your advantage so your opponent can't attack is skillful?
None of those can take a Foul Play particularly well.
Then you render a ton of setup sweepers useless. Is making a bunch of setup less effective better then just banning one Pokemon? Let me know cuz apparently I don't know since I supported the Mega Lucario ban.
Wobbuffet has 8 move in its entire movepool and can only trap and kill Pokemon that are choice locked into an attack. While Mega Gengar has the movepool that can be tailored to take out specific mons for a team. You need Skarmory gone so Dragonite can sweep, use Mega Gengar with Thunderbolt. If goes the same for whatever sweeper you can think of. I don't see how this is comparable...
Pokemon Online is doing the same thing. I don't see you bashing them...
If you leave yourself open to being abused by another player using commonly used sets, you're bad at team building.
If you would actually read the thread you'd notice how it was the community that has been wanting a discussion on this.
Good medium imo. Dunno if that would be consider 'complex' and if people would go for it though.
As someone who plays chess above master level, as well as Pokemon, Pokemon is not "RNG chess." Nor is it anywhere close. This is quite possibly the worst comparison to chess I have ever seen, and that is saying a lot.
"Valid" is a contentious term, I happen to think strategies that rely entirely on 50/50 dicerolls are unhealthy to the game so I would rather be shot of them. If people disagree with me that's fine, these things are best decided by community consensus
It's a metagame, it's Smogon's version of a game. Smogon has always banned things that are considered unhealthy to the metagame, which is why Double Team is banned
The ladder is there to a measure a player's skill. It's not perfect, but it's the best thing we have. you don't get high ladder players using unviable Own Tempo Pokémon to counter Swagplay, because the people who resort to things like that are the people who don't win a lot of games against conventional teams.
All I did was point out that expecting a player to switch 144 times to drain a Swagplay team of its PP is unreasonable. If you don't think so then actually respond to that point
It's the only real compromise I can see all of us coming to while still getting rid of most people's concerns.
Hi haunter I just wanted you to know you're doing a great job and you're a beautiful person 
Pls learn to read. I am aware that there are a lot of Magic Coat users. I simply said that you can't just stick it on anything, because it is such a niche move
Alright, let's do that. Everyone who actually enjoys playing the game as it was meant to be played, which is on a level playing field only affected by the skill of the two players, are for the ban. But since we're looking at people in this forum, let's also look at the people being deliberately bothersome and impeding the discussion by giving out completely irrelevant and worthless arguments as a way to play around this irritating strategy.
