According to Serebii:
Latios: 6'07", 132.3 lbs
Mega Latios: 7'07", 154.3 lbs
Latias: 4'07", 88.2 lbs
Mega Latias: 5'11", 114.6 lbs
They're not the same size.
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Pokémon Latios
- Thread starter Vert
- Start date
- Status
Latios: 6'07", 132.3 lbs
Mega Latios: 7'07", 154.3 lbs
Latias: 4'07", 88.2 lbs
Mega Latias: 5'11", 114.6 lbs
They're not the same size.
252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 316-372 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA M-Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 368-436 (106.9 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 228-270 (87 - 103%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA M-Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 266-314 (101.5 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Latios Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA M-Latios Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 204-244 (50.4 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Just saying, it confirms 2HKOes and OHKOes with proper. M-Latios is ok, but not the greatest.
It's not that good. It's no bulkier than something like Mew. Using the CB Talonflame calc as a benchmark:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latias: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 169-201 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mew is more physically bulky when you factor in Leftovers recovery. Latias has higher other stats but when you consider the fact it takes up a mega slot, needs a turn to mega evolve before it can switch in easily, and has extra weaknesses to Dragon, Ice and Fairy, it's really nothing gamebreaking.
I'm actually kind of pleased they seem a bit underwhelming. The metagame doesn't need any more overpowered Megas.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Shame, huh? I was positive dragon-fairy would've changed the metagame greatly. It can counter itself, with both its typings.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
When will people realize fairy does not resist fairy
Let's completely forget about that 100 Atk,140 SpA, 150 Spdef and 110 speed
Latias seems better than her brother in her Mega Form and can take hits a lot more easily and strike back with Psyshock and Dragon Pulse, with the former slightly getting the better of Latios's attack boost in Mega form.
Also, something that doesn't really matter but.. anyone else noticed how their mega transformation cutscene is different? The camera zooms out, unlike on other megas.
Also, something that doesn't really matter but.. anyone else noticed how their mega transformation cutscene is different? The camera zooms out, unlike on other megas.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Invalid point, pal. Fairy counters dragon, dragon counters dragon. So thus being said, he can counter himself with both typings. Get your shit together before you start acting all smart. ;)
I think he meant to say that Fairy + Dragon doesn't resist fairy or dragon (or Psychic), so it wouldn't resist all of Lati@s' STAB moves. However, you are right, it could counter Dragons easily with both STABs.
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However, I think we should bring the conversation away from hypotheticals. I'll try to bring it back on course; who, in your opinion, is a better Defogger, Latios or Latias?
Latias has a hell of a lot more utility than Latios. Healing Wish is awesome on offensive teams, which Latios can't match. The bulk vs. firepower choice is personal opinion, but Healing Wish is just too good to pass up.
Mega-Latios changes nothing, it still can't get pass Tyranitar, and it still has the same counters and checks depending on the movepool. Of course this is speculation, but I'd sooner use Specs with Trick to screw over the main things coming into it.
Mega-Latias is far more interesting. That bulk, speed, and power means she can run defensive, offensive, or even mixed sets thanks to her movepool providing her with just enough options, and each set has different counters.
Right now though I prefer Latias over Latios, since Healing Wish with Levitate and her speed is a major niche, and her bulk lets her check more things than her brother.
Mega-Latias is far more interesting. That bulk, speed, and power means she can run defensive, offensive, or even mixed sets thanks to her movepool providing her with just enough options, and each set has different counters.
Right now though I prefer Latias over Latios, since Healing Wish with Levitate and her speed is a major niche, and her bulk lets her check more things than her brother.
Earthquake on life orb Latios is becoming increasingly popular on the upper levels of the ladder right now since it allows Latios to hit most of his common counters hard on the switch.
As for Mega Latios, I can't really speak for the viability of purely physical sets, (I'm guessing they'd only really be for surprise factor) Meg Latios is a pretty decent side grade to the standard Life Orb set that everyone has been using these days. One of the biggest problems with the set IMO was that it got worn down easily because of orb and rocks, which was especially bad with all the priority running around. Completely removing life orb recoil plus the not irrelevant 20/10 increases in defense means that defog sets will have a lot more staying power. It has roughly a 10% decrease in special damage, but the increased bulk plus the slight increase in physical damage makes me think it's mostly better then LO Latios ignoring the fact that it uses up your mega slot. That's admittedly a big weakness with so many strong megas at the moment, but Latios' is perfectly usable if you can get past that.
thats actually pretty deadly and could be a nice lure, assault vest ttar has to be a bit more careful about those free switch ins + pursuits now. latios is essentially dead weight if you get assault vest ttar in on it atm
The calcs get even better when you factor in DD:
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 232-274 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 250-296 (82.2 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(yes, I changed it to 130 base Atk)
Mega Latios' biggest selling point is being the fastest DD user in the game and having STAB Draco Meteor off 160 SpA for wallbreaking potential. These calcs are for a number of Latios' usual checks that would otherwise chuckle at its LO/Specs sets....if you can grab a boost, you can wreck some of its usual checks. You obviously wouldn't stay in on it, Mawile calcs are purely to show that it would have great difficulty switching in.
Compare with LO calcs, with ~1% difference:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 307-361 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 235-277 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 234-276 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 252-299 (82.8 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If you want to use lure Latios, there is a strong case for a Mega. Personally I don't think it's a great idea to run LO on a set-up that's quite fragile with no recovery assuming a set of DD/Outrage/EQ/Draco Meteor. The difference between Latios and other DD users is that priority shits all over it versus the more bulky users. It also does have to compete with other Megas, though....like Latias, Charizard X, Pinsir, and Heracross. But Latios' checks are quite predictable and going mixed gives you an opportunity to exploit that.
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 232-274 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 250-296 (82.2 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(yes, I changed it to 130 base Atk)
Mega Latios' biggest selling point is being the fastest DD user in the game and having STAB Draco Meteor off 160 SpA for wallbreaking potential. These calcs are for a number of Latios' usual checks that would otherwise chuckle at its LO/Specs sets....if you can grab a boost, you can wreck some of its usual checks. You obviously wouldn't stay in on it, Mawile calcs are purely to show that it would have great difficulty switching in.
Compare with LO calcs, with ~1% difference:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 307-361 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 235-277 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 234-276 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 252-299 (82.8 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If you want to use lure Latios, there is a strong case for a Mega. Personally I don't think it's a great idea to run LO on a set-up that's quite fragile with no recovery assuming a set of DD/Outrage/EQ/Draco Meteor. The difference between Latios and other DD users is that priority shits all over it versus the more bulky users. It also does have to compete with other Megas, though....like Latias, Charizard X, Pinsir, and Heracross. But Latios' checks are quite predictable and going mixed gives you an opportunity to exploit that.
I'm just reading the thread and WHAT? "Why not use Life Orb instead of the Mega Stone?"
I'm telling you why. The Calcs are almost the same on damage output, but with the Mega Stone the Twins have a lot of more bulk and doesn't take recoil damage. It's plus. I like the two Twins, not all 'mons must be as far banned as possible. I imagine a line and the pokemons where all standing near or off the line, these pokemons who crossed the line are uber. Reading this thread the wish of the community is that all pokemon are 1 inch before the line. That's stupid. MLatias has really good bulk in 80 / 120 / 150 - therfore it have Wish, Roost, Dual Screens for more bulk and hit hard with 100 / 140. I read texts like "why don't use Assault Vest?" maybe while it have Roost and Wish? C' mon, people.
MLatios is also good mixed. 130 / 160 is extremly good. There are only 2 Dragon Types with more SpA one off them is Kyurem-W and the other is MAmpharos (xD). MLatios will outspeed Kyurem-W and OHKO it with Draco Meteor. No comment to MAmpharos.
I'm suprised how they will be in Overused or maybe in Uber.
I'm telling you why. The Calcs are almost the same on damage output, but with the Mega Stone the Twins have a lot of more bulk and doesn't take recoil damage. It's plus. I like the two Twins, not all 'mons must be as far banned as possible. I imagine a line and the pokemons where all standing near or off the line, these pokemons who crossed the line are uber. Reading this thread the wish of the community is that all pokemon are 1 inch before the line. That's stupid. MLatias has really good bulk in 80 / 120 / 150 - therfore it have Wish, Roost, Dual Screens for more bulk and hit hard with 100 / 140. I read texts like "why don't use Assault Vest?" maybe while it have Roost and Wish? C' mon, people.
MLatios is also good mixed. 130 / 160 is extremly good. There are only 2 Dragon Types with more SpA one off them is Kyurem-W and the other is MAmpharos (xD). MLatios will outspeed Kyurem-W and OHKO it with Draco Meteor. No comment to MAmpharos.
I'm suprised how they will be in Overused or maybe in Uber.
Think you mean Latios there.
People used a similar argument on Mega Venusaur and it's now seen as the premier wall in OU. Make no mistake, M-Latias is going to be a top tier ou threat
So the only reason to run Mega-Latios is a mixed or Physical Set? I don't believe that special variant can outdamage Life-Orb/Specs Latios.
I dont think that Mega-Venusaur is a good indicator for Mega-Latias bulk. Sure it does get reliable recovery but unlike Mega-Venusaur it doesn't have the tankyness against 2 (former) SE Typs and is weak to 2 now common and spammable typs in Dark and Ghost. The lack of passive recovery will still be an issue.
I dont think that Mega-Venusaur is a good indicator for Mega-Latias bulk. Sure it does get reliable recovery but unlike Mega-Venusaur it doesn't have the tankyness against 2 (former) SE Typs and is weak to 2 now common and spammable typs in Dark and Ghost. The lack of passive recovery will still be an issue.
It musn't outdamage the other sets. It's tankier then the other Sets and offencier then the Assault Vest set. The mix is the point. People see only things like "it do less dmg then set XY" "this set is not as bulky as Assault Vest"....
It's the combination of both sets that make MLati@s good. Goodra has 90 / 70 / 150 and 100 / 110 offensive Stats + no reliable recovery. MLatias has 80 / 120 / 150, much more bulkier then Goodra and the offensive Stats are also better 100 / 140 + wish recovery in form of Wish or Roost. So Goodra is now outclassed by MLatias.
True, but everytime when someone was thinking about using a defensive Latios, one would simply use Latias instead and vise versa. Assult Vest sounds nice on Latios but why not use Latias in the first place who has superior mixed bulk.
To MLatias outclassing Goodra. I am not sure if MLatias can pull off a special tank like Goodra does, even with reliable recovery. Goodra has way better coverage and mono-dragon typing gives it less weaknesses. Sure, Latias resist Fighting and Ground in addition to what Goodra resist, but it is now weak to common priority moves and Dark Typ moves that are flying around everywhere.
That's a point, but on the otherside Knock Off have "only" 65 BP. Goodra's physically bulk is not good at all. Let's just waiting how they will fit in the Overused, when they're released.
R.I.P English.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Just bringing back the conversation on sets, when I used normal latias competitively I used:
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog
Think it'll still work with M-Latias?
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog
Think it'll still work with M-Latias?
- Status