Victim of the Week: Ubers Edition

[Ash Borer]

this is like orch's deo-D, but more of a duck

Duck @ leftovers
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 hp / 252 sdef / 4 def
- Duck wave
- Duckshock
- Ducklight
- Duck Screen

tank +2 moonblast with ease, paralyze it with duck wave, set up a duck screen, then go to a teammate, it ruins Xerneas's day at least. Duckshock so you dont get quacked by mega gengar so easily

+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 250-295 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[ogasian]

I propose a different definition. A check, to me, could be defined as:

• A Pokemon that, given a free switch in, can KO an opposing threat before being KOed itself in most, if not all circumstances - eg Mega Scizor against any Geomancy Xerneas lacking HP Fire - OR
• A Pokemon that can mitigate the threat of an opposing Pokemon sufficiently so that it is easily checked (as per the above definition) by teammates - eg Thundurus paralysing Mewtwo - OR
• A Pokemon that can weaken a threat sufficiently to be revenge killed by a teammate - eg Bronzong dealing enough damage for Geomancy Xerneas to be picked off by Extremekiller Arceus

While not a perfect or exhaustive definition, it allows for the concept of two Pokemon checking a threat collaboratively. Of course such checks are not as effective as ones that fit the original definition, but to accept these as checks (or soft checks) allows for much more creative and flexible teambuilding, and a looser definition of checking is often the only option more offensive teams have for checking threats. It also provides a much more relevant definition, as many threats are considered checked through phazing or inflicting crippling status, even if they are not outright beaten by the check.

I've decided to change to this defenition after much deliberation. Blue Jay thanks for a better definition :o

 

[Haruno]

With blue J's definition then prankster + swagger + twave checks every mon in game bar prankster taunt.

 

[ogasian]

With blue J's definition then prankster + swagger + twave checks every mon in game bar prankster taunt.

get out my thread u bitch >:(
we're assuming everybody is honorable and will refrain from using such cowardly tactics
also if u replace check with counter u will be nearer to the truth

 

[doublenikesocks]

Can we disqualify stuff based on how much they are ho-oh fodder? Cause a good 50% of mons in this thread gets destroyed by the flappy bird.

 

[realiti]

Can we disqualify stuff based on how much they are ho-oh fodder? Cause a good 50% of mons in this thread gets destroyed by the flappy bird.

you're basically saying that everything that is ho oh bait is useless. if it was ho oh bait they lose geo's boost' risk bing hit with a suprise attack, and being countered by a counter.
MaybeYOU shuld try these counters. ho oh is only on about 20% on people's teams

 

[Haruno]

Can we disqualify stuff based on how much they are ho-oh fodder? Cause a good 50% of mons in this thread gets destroyed by the flappy bird.

Shame the mons that check a physical attacker like Ho oh are completely different than something that checks a special attacker like xern lol.

 

[ogasian]

Victim of the Week #2The Victim of the Week for week #2 is a popular old Pokemon used with one of its most deadly sets: Choice Banded Ho-Oh.

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk/ 72 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk / Punishment

 

[ChaosNemesis]

Heatran @ air balloon
Adamant
80Hp 252Atk 176Spe
- stone edge
- whatever
- who cares
- don't need

Perfect counter, can come in on any move, outspeed and OHKO.

 

[AxeWound]

Heatran @ air balloon
Adamant
80Hp 252Atk 176Spe
- stone edge
- whatever
- who cares
- don't need

Perfect counter, can come in on any move, outspeed and OHKO.

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk/ 72 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk / Punishment

 

[Haruno]

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk/ 72 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk / Punishment

Your only goal is countering cb ho oh. So technically heatran can come in on any move since brave bird fails to 2hko it I believe while stone edge can potentially ohko ho oh.

 

[Jimmyftw]

Your only goal is countering cb ho oh. So technically heatran can come in on any move since brave bird fails to 2hko it I believe while stone edge can potentially ohko ho oh.

Choice Band Ho-oh is the only common Ho-oh set that runs Earthquakes, so saying that Heatran's only goal is countering Choice Band Ho-oh is ironic. Heatran has an easier time with non Choice Banded Ho-oh which normally do not carry Earthquake and have a sufficiently weaker Brave Bird.

 

[Haruno]

Choice Band Ho-oh is the only common Ho-oh set that runs Earthquakes, so saying that Heatran's only goal is countering Choice Band Ho-oh is ironic. Heatran has an easier time with non Choice Banded Ho-oh which normally do not carry Earthquake and have a sufficiently weaker Brave Bird.

No idea what you're talking about. The heatran set that was posted has approx 96% of winning in all realistic scenarios. If the ho oh eqs/sacred fire then heatran wins 100% of the time, while if ho oh decides to use brave bird (as it should) then heatran has a 96% of ko'ing ho oh. While if sr is up then it instead only has an 80% of winning. Those are acceptable odds for a gamble, no?

 

[ChaosNemesis]

AIR BALLOON!
Band = cannot switch move = Quake on a balloon

 

[realiti]

AIR BALLOON!
Band = cannot switch move = Quake on a balloon

Brave Bird=Switch Out=Broken Balloon=vulnerable to EQs

 

[AxeWound]

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 153-181 (44.6 - 52.7%) not factoring in Stealth Rock. I perfectly agree with ChaosNemisis's Heatran as a wonderful check but i disagree with him saying that it is a perfect counter

EDIT: Keeping in mind that the set Ogaysian gave has only 72 speed ev's Haruno is probably right. I personally run max speed on my CB Ho-oh(i think others do too) so i was thinking from that perspective.

btw Haruno speaking of realistic scenarios you won't ever see a max attack adamant Heatran with 184 speed in a realistic scenario unless someone really hates ho-oh that much :P

 

[ChaosNemesis]

btw Haruno speaking of realistic scenarios you won't ever see a max attack adamant Heatran with 184 speed in a realistic scenario unless someone really hates ho-oh that much :P

Yep, that's true.
And if you really follow that idea you can also switch 80Ev from HP to Def.

Btw I really want to see if there's better check counter to band Ho-oh

 

[AxeWound]

This mon has grown on me so much this gen i had to post it

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn/Toxic
- Stone Edge

Pretty simple deal here. Intimidate allows it to be one of the few mons to not get 2HKO'ed by Ho-oh's stab whereas Stone Edge OHKO's back. Additionally SR provides another way to semi butcher ho-oh before it comes in to take Lando-T on. Toxic provides addition pressure on ho-oh if you predict especially if rocks are up or you can U-turn out to rack up more intimidates on Turkey.

 

[Li Xiao Long]

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP/ 156 Atk /100 Def
Impish Nature
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock
-Idgaf
-^

All right. Rhydon resists Ho-Oh's two main stabs, and can OHKO back. 'Nuff said.
Watch the calcs.

Sacred Fire in Sun
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Eviolite Rhydon in Sun: 97-114 (23.4 - 27.5%) -- 77.1% chance to 4HKO

Brave Bird
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 77-91 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO

Earthquake?
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 172-204 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

GG droughtfest.

 

[polop]

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost

Ok so while Ho-Oh will 2HKO Gliscor, the recovery Gliscor gets from Poison Heal + roost actually lets it completely negate the damage output ho-oh can do to it. As a result this Gliscor has no problem switching in after its intoxicated itself since Roost + Poison heal "out heals" the damage Gliscor can receive from Brave Bird. Sun boosted Sacred Fire will overwhelm it, but Gliscor should be fine for the most part (especially since Sun will be up for not too many turns). If you throw Stone Edge on this thing Ho-Oh is even less of a problem but Gliscor with this set retains some utility as it can also check other mons for the team (SD Arceus not named Water / Blaziken / Zekrom (to an extent DM still hurts) / Groudon).

Gliscor can also run Stealth Rock but the move it gives up inhibits its ability to check stuff. As a minor plus, Gliscor can also break some of the slower stall teams by annoying walls. Unlike Landorus this thing will also be happy to switch into status for you so long as the status inducer is not something that can OHKO it :P.

Melee Mewtwo why have you not brought up the cutest of all carbon :(.

Patience, for the Goddess of the Carbinks shall soon arrive. ~MM2

 

[orch]

rest and toxic/earthquake/roar should be the next 2 slots for rhydon

polop
carbink loses to cb ho-oh :(

 

[MrKijani]

Well, a pokemon who could status and win out on Ho-Oh would be Defensive Rotom-Wash who is immune to EQ, and resists both STABs.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W in Sun: 139-164 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
That's Rocks and Sun support for Ho-Oh, and Brave bird does 43% max damage. So you can switch Rotom-W in on (preferably) Brave bird, Thunder Wave, the Volt Switch out. An interesting choice, definitely not the best nor would I ever use it, but still a choice.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Trait: levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave

So it'd fit under option two, it reduces the threat so that it may be dealt with by a superior ally.

Another option is just Scarf Terrakion :p
So long as Stone Edge doesn't miss x.x

 

[ogasian]

Victim of the Week #3The Victim of the Week for week #3 is the titan of the sea himself: Kyogre. The most dominating force in the Ubers metagame since it's fateful release in Generation 4, Kyogre makes a return this Generation as a deadly Choice Scarf user. Aqua perditoris ostensor adhuc victoria.

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest / Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

 

[Furai]

dont do water arc

 

[ogasian]

Hey, let's attempt to put some substance into posts. A FULL set and a brief description. Format it like a PS! importable. Thanks you!