XY UU Research Week #3

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Welcome, UUers and all those looking for an excellent comp. 'mons experience! A fresh tier means a fresh installment of Research Group!

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:
  • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
  • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
  • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
  • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.
A few things to clarify:
  • Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
  • Sign-Ups close Monday nights (about three and a half days of sign-ups), so be sure to sign up before they close!
  • The prizes for Research Week have been decided; winning a research week will grant you half-ops on our IRC channel, #xyuu. Win five, and you get a nomination for a Community Contributor badge.

This Week's Research Pokemon:

Vaporeon | Celebi | Cinccino | Heliolisk | Mega-Abomasnow

How useful are these Pokemon in XYUU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #xyuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:
  • Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
  • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
  • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
  • Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. Prizes are currently being discussed with higher powers, so hang tight while I find something worth your guys' attention. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the XYUU Hub Hall of Fame (once it exists).

Current Participants:
-zeriloa (Cinccino)
-EonX- (Vaporeon)
-galbia (Vaporeon / Heliolisk)
-Hakumen (Celebi)
-TM13IceBeam (Vaporeon / Celebi / Cinccino)
-radianthero156 (Celebi)
-Bouffalant (Vaporeon / Celebi)
-Rohail (Vaporeon / Mega-Abomasnow)
-Robert Alfons (Vaporeon / Celebi)
-Aladyyn (Vaporeon / Mega-Abomasnow)
-hilarious (Heliolisk)
-Meowiekins (Celebi)
-aidbail45 (Mega-Abomasnow)
-ScraftyIsTheBest (Cinccino)
-Xenoblade911 (Vaporeon / Mega-Abomasnow)
-Turtleye (Cinccino)
-Brawlfest (Celebi / Cinccino)
-TheKumquat (Mega-Abomasnow)
 
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atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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Oh, cool I am pretty excited to see Cincinno on here, as I always thought it was pretty underrated in BW UU, so it will be interesting to see if it is still a threat in the new meta. It has that really nice base 115 speed, allowing it to outspeed almost all of the non-boosted meta game and hit it with either Tail Slap (normal is a really spammable STAB) or with a coverage move. Access to U-turn also means Cin will always be gaining momentum for your team, and because of skill link it has some really unique coverage for a normal type physical attacker. One set (well item) I feel is really underrated is King's Rock, because thanks to it's high speed and skill link, along side the flinch chance from king's rock, Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast all have a 40.1% chance to flinch, which is always really funny and cool when it helps you dismantle a team. The set:

Kawaii soulgazer (Cinccino) (F) @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast
- U-turn
- Tail Slap

I am not sure if I will ladder or not, I will update this post if I do, but yeah this is a cool set, try it out imo :).
 

Darnell

Respected.
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So...I love the fact that Heliolisk was one of the Pokemon and want to see this thing much more. It has a nice base Speed and Special Attack of 109. Good ability to run with Rain AND Sun teams as well and gives it coverage with the move Surf. Has access to Volt Switch so it can gain switch initiative. I personally run Glare over the normal Thunderbolt because it is always nice to catch those sweepers off guard with it. Can also get a paralysis on some ground types although it doesn't matter too much because most of them are slow anyway. Hidden Power Ice is pretty obvious. Hit them Dragon types. I would say Gastrodon could be a problem because this Heliolisk has trouble hitting it as it can block the Volt Switch and pretty much absorb any hit unless you use unless you switch up the Hidden Power.
I wonder if anyone understands the nickname... Cream = Dry Skin

Cream (Heliolisk) (M) Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
-Glare
-Volt Switch
-Hidden Power Ice/Focus Blast
-Surf

(I'll update the post when I ladder more) Tried laddering and finding some example with it. Got lovely messages. One of my favourite...
Heliolisk used Volt Switch!
It's super effective! The opposing Suicune lost 50% of its health!
Heliolisk lost some of its HP!

The opposing Suicune fainted!

Fried Pickle:
fuck you, you stalling piece of shit
Fried Pickle forfeited.
Darnell won the battle!
 

EonX

Battle Soul
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alt: EX25
pokemon: Vaporeon

may also make a different team with Celebi, but Vaporeon will be easy since I have a team that has it, but I hadn't tested yet.
 
alt: shimokitazawa

pokemon: vaporeon, celebi, cinccino

random fun fact: my first ever uu team was adapted from my old ou team which had vaporeon and celebi.

probably going to figure out a set for celebi, but vaporeon's bread and butter wishpass set was pretty effective when i used it ages ago (back when shit like bisharp still existed). go full out specially defensive investment, then wish/scald and two of heal bell/toxic/ice beam/roar/protect. :/

cinccino... idk really. scarf seems like an excellent revenge killer, since this shit is actually pretty powerful. skill link boosted stab tail slap hurts like a bitch.
 
Alt: Dumbsquid
Pokemen: Vaporeon, Mega Abomasnow

I've used Vaporeon a bit before as a wishpasser and general pivot on an offensive team and it definitely has some stuff it can do.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Roar

The last slot is purely preference, you can do Heal Bell, Toxic, Ice Beam, Baton Pass, whatever floats your boat. This one moveslot gives Vaporeon a lot of suprise factor, at least I know I'm always nervous until this move is revealed and I know exactly what I'm facing.
I've been using Roar there and it has tremendous utility, making Vappy a solid answer to CroCune (unless it's the last mon) and a cool check to a lot of other set up sweepers. Its Wishes are like, humongous big too. Overall I feel Vaporeon has its place alongside the other bulky waters of UU and I'll be back after some more vicious testing.
 
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pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
alt french fries
pokemon Heliolisk but it doesn't really matter if I add or use different Pokemon I am sure

do we need to add a screen shot to prove we had no ladder games yet?


just to go with the flow in any case but I'm really bad with computers and it took me like 3 minutes to do this picture. Assuming I do this multiple times I could I rather not spend like a useless 10 15 30 minutes doing this

please tell us if we need screenshots in the future

edit thank you Mazz
 
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pokemon Heliolisk but it doesn't really matter if I add or use different Pokemon I am sure
You're allowed to build a team using Heliolisk (or any of the other research week suspects). The only condition to your team is that it must contain 1 of the 5 Pokemon presented here.

please tell us if we need screenshots in the future
It's simply common practice to post a screenshot, it's not mandatory. I do altchecks regardless.

On a side note, everyone who has signed up to this point has been added to the OP.
 
ok so i played a few games so far (aside from one reallllllly weird one with larvesta wtf)

first impressions:
- vaporeon is a pretty good defensive pivot, though i think i got unlucky with scald a bunch of times >_>
- offensive celebi is pretty beastly: lo leaf storm hits pretty hard. i'm not sure on what other moves to pair it with =/
- cinccino is an amazing nuke but it has paper defenses and some prediction is needed to bring this in correctly. i tried bringing it in once on a chandelure expecting shadow ball, but got murdered by a flamethrower to the face.
 
Alright, time for an early analysis I guess.



I think I'm doing good so far- the only loss I had was to a guy with a Tornadus-T who predicted me several times, and later whined about how stall is for people with no life. Whatever, I guess.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic / Roar / Ice Beam

This Vaporeon set is pretty standard, but it works wonders. Wish and Protect are generally the moves of choice, and let me heal other mons with no recovery on my team ( in other words, Hydreigon). Scald is a STAB move that usually gets the burn and does a good amount of damage. Toxic is for opposing Vaporeon and other walls that Scald can't damage. I slashed in Roar and Ice Beam, because with Roar you phaze out mons that want to set up on you, and is also useful because with Toxic you're a sitting duck against Toxicroak. Ice Beam hits bulky dragons and non AV Tangrowth pretty hard. All in all, Vaporeon seems to be pulling its weight, and is a fantastic support mon.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 Def / 252 HP / 36 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Psychic

CM Celebi is actually pretty good in UU. The EVs are a little weird, but opposing Celebi were insanely common, and I really hated taking U-turns to the face, so I decided to minimize that while still having a bit of firepower. Giga Drain lets me get back HP while doing a lot of damage when boosted, but I may change this to Energy Ball. Recover lets me get back health when facing mons that take little to no damage from Giga Drain. CM is generally the set up move, and lets me take a lot of special hits, which is astounding. Finally, Psychic is just a plain old STAB move, which would be replaced with Psyshock, if it were legal.

S..sorry for the wall of text ;-;

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-96343023 - Here's a match where Celebi manages to do pretty well, I don't think I would have won that match if it weren't for it. :L
 
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I'll do this again this week, unfortunately life happened so I couldn't really ladder much, but I'll certainly try again!

Alt: nehille
Pokemon: Mega-Abomasnow
 

EonX

Battle Soul
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So, already got 20 battles in last night and went 18-2. (one of those losses was some serious BS hax) Vaporeon's been quite effective thus far with its standard set (for what seem like 8 years now lol) and one match in particular has stood out where I doubt I would've had a chance to win without her:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-96072547 - came down to a battle of an offensive Pokemon and the Wish user. Vaporeon was more effective. Just been using the Wishpass set that is in my discussion thread on Vaporeon.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
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Alt: Cinccino Style
Pokemon: Cinccino

I loved using Cinccino in BW RU, now time to see if it's still the great mon it was before.
 

EonX

Battle Soul
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galbia , I may be crazy with this idea, but considering Heliolisk has Solar Power for an ability as well, wouldn't it be a better idea to test it on a team centering around Sun? I mean, the ability to benefit from Sun seems to be one of the big selling points for Heliolisk over other Electric-types, and it's not like the recoil will hurt a ton since Heliolisk can't live many hits anyway. I probably won't test this out considering weather teams aren't my forte by any means, but it is a thought. Solar Power would give it a boost to all attacks instead of just the ability to use Thunder and a boost to Surf.
 
Reporting day 1:



So far I'm enjoying using both Mega Abomasnow and Vaporeon. I'll do a quick overview of both pokes.

1) Mega Abomasnow:



Abomasnow-Mega @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake/Substitute/Leech Seed
- Ice Shard

I love this thing, I think it needs more usage, it has good HP to back up it's pretty solid bulk, pretty good attacking stats which allow it to go mixed, which is nice. I'll explain this set's EVs, we wanna run Quiet Nature, because I'm already slow as fuck, and we don't wanna lose bulk, so more firepower at the cost of some of my miserable speed isn't really a big deal. And we run 56 atk EV's to be able to 2HKO any Jirachi Variant after Stealth Rock. And tha gives us 314 and 399 attacking stats (both Attack and Special Attack, respectively) which is solid. And we slap the remaining 200 EV's into HP to give us more bulk. The moveset is Blizzard which smacks anything that doesn't resist it, Giga Drain for Dual STAB, Earthquake for nice coverage versus Steel types and Ice Shard to revenge kill stuff like Noivern who don't really see Ice Shard coming.

This thing isn't a bad mega. It needs more love, and I can see why people don't use it all that much: It's horrible typing defensively. That can be mitigated if you build around it's weaknesses and Mega Abomasnow can switch into resisted hits with a lot of ease. One might think its bad type defensively and being slow as fuck makes it bad, but you can also use this with Trick Room which is also extremely viable, and that's where it mainly shines.

2) Vaporeon

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect/Roar/Ice Beam
- Heal Bell/Toxic


Vaporeon is a pretty amazing bulky water type in UU, I personally use it as a cleric, which in my opinion is the best set for Vaporeon to use. EV's are really simple, Max HP and Def along with 0 IV's to not get affected by SwagPlay tactics (I'm looking at you, Liepard). Vaporeon has a few advantages over Florges, access to a great ability in Water Absorb, access to Scald, and the ability to pass bigger wishes than Florges, which makes me use this a bit more over Florges, and it has better HP than Florges. As for the set, Scald and Wish are necessary because burning pokes while having the ability to WishPass is really amazing. On the third slot you can run Protect, which I recommend a lot on this set, you can also run Roar if you hate set-up sweepers, or Ice Beam if you want to hit stuff like Dragons for super-effective damage. And on the 4th moveslot you can run Heal Bell if you want a cleric or Toxic if you want a staller.

This thing is fantastic at taking hits. While not as good as chansey, it is not complete set up bait like Chansey as it gets Scald to burn physical sweepers which is a fantastic trait to have. This thing can switch into a lot of things that are physical, even Super-effective physical Grass or Electric attacks are only like a 3HKO if invested.
 
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