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Pokémon Medicham
- Thread starter Ash Borer
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Medicham doesnt really pull off bulky sets, substitute + drain punch could work I suppose, but I can't see it be better than the hjk wallbreaker set.
Psycho Cut vs Zen Headbutt is about if you want power over accuracy and flinch+contact over crit chance+no-contact.
For instance Psycho Cut allows for easily beating Cofagrigus, doesn't take rocky helmet damage, avoids the attack drop from king's shield etc.
Drain Punch has never been a good move on Medicham IMO.
Medicham's Drain Punch is weaker than Conkeldurr's... so yeah, its definitely not worth it. Conkeldurr is simply a superior user
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 627-741 (163.2 - 192.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Conkeldurr has Iron Fist and an Item Slot. Its got more HP / Defense AND does more damage.
Remember you're using Life Orb, where AV is the most common set (without it, Conk actually doesn't take special hits THAT well). Even so, it barely matters:
252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 588-694 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 398-470 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Either way though, HJK is the better option IMO. Medicham itself doesn't have the best bulk, 60/85/85 isn't very impressive. Along with all the TFlame's running around, HJK is really the superior option.
I'm well aware, Cofagrigus is the only thing I've found where Psycho Cut gives you a legitimate edge over Zen Headbutt and it is rather rare.
Why don't I see a Normal Cham set? It upsets me that spme people are forgetting about old Medicham, because he is still good, imo. I think his best role outside of mega sets is pass recieving. Ive been testing it with a Hone Claws Ninjask, then passing it to a normal Medicham. One noteworthy result is sweeping an entire team
Normal medicham in ou has no niche. It cannot sweep. Scarf/band are heavily outclassed by terrakion. Ninjask is also a joke in ou, especcially when you can use scolipede. Lol, hone claws.
edit: mega medichm would be a better bp receiver anyway...
Mega medicham is my favourite mega, the only problems are 4mms and 100 speed tier. I love using this with stciky web. Im sure its been mentioned but with sticky web cham is much harder to revenge kill. Only really faster scarfers, talonflame latwins and gengar. Its a monster
It doesn't really have 4mss as HJK, Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, Fire Punch and Fake Out are the only moves to even be considered imo and out of those Fake Out doesnt do much besides letting you avoid the poor pre-Mevo speed, 100 speed isn't all that bad, 80 speed however, is.
Medicham is great when paired with pursuit users as they have little issues taking out the main counters of it (Aegislash and bulky Psychic types), especially bulky Psychics like Mew and Reuniclus are problematic as they can't be 2HKO'd and have recovery Sableye is another great Medicham counter as it's immune to both it's stabs and has priority Burn as well as Recover, what Medicham wouldn't give to have Knock Off...
Okay, favorable point, but how about in lower tiers such as UU? Then, it is a practical combo, since Mega Cham would more than likely be banned in tiers like this and below. When I said I swept a whole team with it, I was not lying. Did I mention it was OU, too? The reason I carry Hone Claws on the Ninjask is so that Hi Jump Kick does not miss(Imagine that on Mega Cham. Afraid yet?). I find it funny that anyone would find that funny.
In the end, all I am saying is that the old Medicham does deserve at least some respect. The Life Orb set in combination with Drain Punch is very viable, in my opinion. I am not dissing or hating on Mega Medicham at all. I actually frickin love it. Too stronk. The Life Orb set in combination with Drain Punch is very viable, in my opinion.
PS: I did not think about Scolipede. I think I will look into that. Thanks!
Iron Fist and Life Orb is a bad set that makes Conkeldurr vulnerable to burns and compromises its bulk. Guts is better, Assault Vest is better still.
Plus nothing Conkeldurr can reasonably do can compare to HJK.
Over the course of 3 different Mega-Medicham centric teams, each focusing around various standard and unique sets, I have found that the two forms of priority Medicham gets should not be disregarded. Bullet Punch is easily the most viable priority that Medicham gets allowing him to pick off weakened foes, or get in a hit before dying. Fake Out is more questionable due to normal typing and how it is limited to one use per outing. I have found that the following set is, as a whole the best imo:
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Psycho Cut/ Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Fire Punch
The sheer power of High Jump Kick makes up for the possible absence of Ice punch, chunking incoming targets allowing you to finish off with bullet punch.
On Switch:
-252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 213-251 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 88-104 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 3.6% chance to 3HKO
Yes, Mega-Medicham is a Wallbreaker, however, there will be times where you wont be able to ko and be outspeed and it is in those times where priority really shines. It in all honesty depends on your teams needs and if you lack priority but already have a plethora of coverage, the sacrifice of either ice punch, fire punch, or Psychic stab for Bullet Punch is more then worth it. I have seen and received far to many negative comments about Bullet Punch on Medicham and through experience have come to this conclusion.
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Psycho Cut/ Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Fire Punch
The sheer power of High Jump Kick makes up for the possible absence of Ice punch, chunking incoming targets allowing you to finish off with bullet punch.
On Switch:
-252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 213-251 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 88-104 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 3.6% chance to 3HKO
Yes, Mega-Medicham is a Wallbreaker, however, there will be times where you wont be able to ko and be outspeed and it is in those times where priority really shines. It in all honesty depends on your teams needs and if you lack priority but already have a plethora of coverage, the sacrifice of either ice punch, fire punch, or Psychic stab for Bullet Punch is more then worth it. I have seen and received far to many negative comments about Bullet Punch on Medicham and through experience have come to this conclusion.
Are the dashes supposed to be bullet points, or are you using a Timid/Modest nature accidentally? :P And to be honest, I never like priority on wall breakers. It just does not hit hard enough. I know it supposed to pick off weakened threats, but that really isn't what I feel medicham should be doing. It shouldn't be using a 40 BP just to avoid being revenge killed, when the move often isn't enough. It can't even 2HKO Alazakam for God's sake. Also, if Medicham cannot OHKO another pokemon, it really shouldn't stay it in on it; it isn't its job.
But if you like Bullet Punch, or Fake Out, for that matter, you totally should use it.
This is also the set I use. Medicham was the second Mega I tried (I used Lucario first, favourite Pokemon), and it hit's ridiculously hard. There's just about no wall actually WALLING it. It has about 200 Base Attack, a decent Priority (Not very good, but still priority :P). Great coverage, and most importantly, it has a godly HJK, which hits about as hard as a Mega Pinsir +1 Return, pretty powerful isn't it? I don't have much else to say about this set other then that it kills just about everything in 1-2 hits.
You might be a little bit insane. Sableye can WoW before Bisharp attacks, and Sableye will take about 50% from a Knock Off, now that it's item is knocked off, all it can do it Iron Head which does about 38%, where Sableye can chill going back and forth between Recover, and Foul Play. Bisharp only wins if Sableye misses WoW. Sableye does pretty much the same with Medicham, except it deals with it MUCH easier.
I'll also join in on the Drain Punch VS HJK and Psycho Cut VS Zen Headbutt discussion, Fighting-Type moves will go first, Psychic will go after.
Drain Punch
A generally good move, it gives decent damage, while granting a fine recovery. Sadly, what makes this less popular, is Medicham's bulk. 60/85/85 are pretty bad defences, while it's typing doesn't make it much easier. Thankfully, it can walk into Stealth Rocks very easily, but, due to the high amount of Aegislash, Mega Pinsirs, Azumarill, and Talonflame running around make it hard for Medicham to actually land a hit. Drain Punch is meant for recovery - this is why Conkeldurr is the best abuser of it. It can tank attacks, and because of being so slow, it hits back very hard and gains all it's health back. On the otherhand, Medicham, despite being slightly slow in this meta-game, is too fragile to live even one hit and use Drain Punch to the fullest. If you want something to take hits and abuse Drain Punch, you should just use Conkeldurr.
High Jump Kick
High Jump Kick is a incredibly strong move at 130 base power, or 195 with STAB. With this kind of power, backed by Pure Power and a 100 Base Attack stat, it can even 2HKO Pokemon who resist such a thing. If you're new to this, you're probably asking me "Why isn't this always Serperior (dat pun) then Drain Punch?". The reason being is easiest explained, by Ghost Types. When High Jump Kick misses, you lose half of your total health, this is DEADLY, as siad above, Aegislash is one of the most common Pokemon now, meaning sometimes you have to play extremely safe to not miss a HJK and kill your Medicham. This is what makes it so deadly, by overpredicting, you can cost you Medicham little damage, say, trying to do a Fire Punch on Aegislash but they predict that and stay in with Rotom-W, it's a free attack for your opponent, which is very scary, they can 2HKO you with an attack, WoW you to make you do little damage, and so on. To make matters worse, it also has 90% accuracy. This is pretty good compared to Focus Miss, or anything like that, but that 10% is fatal, and has cost me the match many times.
The Winner? (Fighting)
The Winner is, oh my god what a surprise! It's what you prefer. Drain Punch, despite wasting it's main function, is the safest option, and you can spam this very safely without worrying about Ghost types THAT much. High Jump Kick, is much stronger and OHKO's many Pokemon of the tier. But, in return for power, you also gain weakness, you may die from being very reckless, which is why I like to call High Jump Kick: "With Power, comes responsibility".
Onto the Psychic moves, this one is essentially the same.. or is it?
Psycho Cut
This is literally Drain Punch, there's not much to explain to this then it's safer, and has a decent loss is power.
Zen Headbutt
This is less like High Jump Kick, actually. Although they have the same reasons (accuracy, eeevil), what could possibly make this go wrong? It's the coinflip. After lots of testing, Zen Headbutt likes to miss when you absolutely need it. Accuracy over power seems to be something a lot of people don't worry about, such as missing a Focus Blast on a Tyranitar, the coin decides who wins, which is why the winner is...
The Winner? (Psychic)
Psycho Cut! Although it has that seemingly nasty power drop, it doesn't even MATTER. I did many calcs, and Zen Headbutt only secured OHKO's on things like Conkeldurr, even when Psycho Cut had a very high chance of doing it. It's just too reliable, and missing is crucial in this game, so imo, Psycho Cut won.
Oh yeah one more thing:
What is Medicham's biggest weakness? What do I think of Medicham?
Believe or not, it is it's ability. Medicham is Azumarill, it counts on Huge Power/Pure Power to get it's power. If a Pokemon walks up to them with Mummy or Gastro Acid, they're rendered useless. This is a point you have to take into MANY Pokemon. Lets look at Aegislash real quick, for a second. What the hell could it do without it's ability? This matters on it's moves, and what form it's in, and so on. In-fact, I have a replay to prove my point, but I won't post it here as this the Medicham thread. I really like Medicham though, but it's too slow and has priority as weak as hell to make a major change in the meta-game. Medicham is one of those Pokemon I feel that literally create a tier for itself: A tier between UU, and between OU. Who knows? One day that might happen.
I can't believe I took all that time to right all that for one single Pokemon...
Bisharp can Swords Dance to negate BRN's attack drop.
I'd be much more scared:
a. if it were a mega medicham
b. if ninjask has time to settup, which it doesnt because its very frail and cannot cause switches
Regular Medicham will have a niche in ru, maybe in uu, but this is ou, so there is no point of mentioning it. Its not even on the viability rankings, even regular mawile is on there iirc.
My worst problem with megacham is its set is set out for you, fighting stab (strongest move or recover)/ psychic stab (strong coverage)/ fire punch (aegislash)/ bullet punch (priority). Ice punch is viable in the last slot by i wouldnt use cham without priority.
I really dont like fake out. Megacham is great at forcing switches, so you want to hit incoming switches hard with a 130 bp stab fighting move rather than a 40 bp normal move
Bullet Punch is really bad, Medicham is a wallbreaker, not a sweeper, it OHKOs or 2HKOs pretty much every wall in the game except for Mew, Cresselia, Slowbro, Sableye and Reuniclus (might have missed a few but these are the most relevant ones) and also outspeeds every wall so priority isnt needed, offensive pokemon rarely have any business switching in on Medicham as they will die if they come in on the wrong move (or in the case of Aegislash take ~70% damage) Medicham shouldn't be left in against something that it doesnt outspeed and OHKO unless there's little it can do back to Medicham, HJK shouldn't be used if there's still ghosts alive on the other team.
Again, I'd like to reiterate my point that I think it honestly depends on what your team needs and if said team lacks priority but has plenty of coverage then Bullet Punch is a fine option. Bullet Punch gives Mega-Medicham the ability to pick off faster threats that are weakened which is invaluable and though it does take away a bit of his wallbreaking potential, it is not as if you lose that much in the whole scheme of things. I have personally been in many situations where I predicted a switch and chunked an incoming target yet was unable to finish said target off due to my speed being limited at base 100 which is above average yet many threats still outspeed. I think this argument really comes down to personal preference rather then one option being superior to the other as both have their own niche on any given Medicham set.
There's not that many things faster than Megacham other than scarfers, DDers and two of the most common ones that are faster take pitiful damage from Bullet Punch:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 40-47 (12.3 - 14.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 49-58 (16.3 - 19.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The only thing I can think of that naturally outspeeds Megacham and is actually dented by Bullet Punch is Terrakion, run Bullet Punch if you want but to me it's totally not worth sacrificing an importan coverage move for.
HJK is 100% neccesary on Megacham, a Psychic STAB is strongly recommended as it makes short work of Mega Venusaur (a massive obstacle for most teams), Ice Punch is needed for Landorus-T who isn't even 2HKO'd by any of Cham's other moves and for the last slot Fire Punch is in my opinion mandatory to hit Aegislash hard on a predicted switch in, without it you have nothing that does significant damage to it, the only viable alternative for Fire Punch in my opinion is Baton Pass as it allows you to scout and potentially Pursuit trap Aegislash with something like Bisharp.
Megacham is too slow to sweep, it's a wallbreaker and as such it should focus on breaking walls, not picking off weakened offensive mons that outspeed it, especially since it can't even reliably do that.
Perhaps. But all of those factors contribute to the fact that Conkeldurr is a superior Drain Punch user. Mega Medicham is facing 4MSS as it is. As soon as you place "Drain Punch" on Mega Medicham, it is simply losing the battle to Conkeldurr.
I'm not calling Conkeldurr as a replacement to Medicham, I'm simply noting that Drain Punch is a terrible option on Mega Medicham... its a niche that is strictly superior on Conkeldurr.
Medicham breaks through Slowbro with Thunderpunch.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Slowbro is forced to use SlackOff every turn as long as Mega Medicham spams T-Punch.
If you think about it, Ninjask can make time. He can protect and sub(respectively, in that pattern) until the end of time, otherwise known as when he reaches 25% HP from subs. If the opponent misses(if the Jask is holding Bright Powder for example. Yes, it's luck, but guess what? Luck can decide win or lose for the most part) then he can set up Hone Claws behind a substitute. The one problem with this method is priority, but you could just jump the gun if you are behind your subpass all that speed, and forget the attack and accuracy, onto fearsome super-gypsy Mega Medicham. If you are lucky, you can even pass the substitute so medicham gets in without taking direct damage. Jask can at least pass speed. This would be much more practical and OU worthy if Scolipede could learn Hone Claws and not invoke such risk using Ninjask.
Not really, it can use T-Wave and Slack Off before Cham Punches next turn, continue this until Cham gets fully paralyzed (or simply switch into a ground type and be healed up due to Regenerator), a Paralyzed Cham can easily be revenge killed.
Not to mention that Thunderpunch is hardly a common move on Medicham (although with the rising popularity of Gyarados it might get more common).
Also let's refrain from using BPing boosts to something in order to 'justify' it's viability, I could BP +6 Atk/Spe to Magikarp and sweep but that doesn't make it good.
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