Shame about Zapdos and Latias (and to a lesser extent Keldeo). I won't miss Chansey though. The new bunch of drops are all going to be interesting at least.
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np: XY UU Stage 0 - I Lived
- Thread starter kokoloko
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"Man, it's sure a shame that Chansey is gone" said nobody.
I'm not sure whether I'll miss Zapdos or appreciate its absence more, either way, there's a fairly long term UU veteran moving back on up.
I'll shed no tears at Keldeo or Latias moving on either, they were too good on the whole for my liking.
That said, I'm looking at these newcomers with a mix of intrigue and trepidation. Blastoise has a little more competition as a Spinner now. While I don't think Donphan, Forretress or Tentacruel will trouble its position as a bulky spinner much, Starmie's arrival definitely gives a pretty tempting alternative if your team appreciates a more offensive spinner. And while Donphan, Forretress and Tentacruel are probably worse overall than M-Blastoise, if you run one of those you free up your mega slot - that's an interesting and perhaps worthwhile tradeoff to consider.
I'm cursing under my breath slightly at seeing Klefki and Sableye in the tier. I just know that those are gonna be a pain in the ass. I expect to see even more Florges to both smack Sableye about with Moonblast and cure the burns it spreads around. Klefki is probably tittering to itself; it's arriving just as the tier's best defoggers are leaving, leaving it more or less at liberty to either set up spikes or screens. More Defog Mew is possible as a result. I just hope that Swagplay doesn't become fashionable now.
Shuckle's big chance at seeing some action above NU has probably just been cruelly ripped away now that Galvantula is here.
Cloyster and Salamence have me sweating a bit. It's a good job that I have Mega Aggron on my team, he's probably going to be working overtime to keep those two in check.
I think this is gonna shake up the tier quite a bit, but I think that it'll mostly be for the better.
I'm not sure whether I'll miss Zapdos or appreciate its absence more, either way, there's a fairly long term UU veteran moving back on up.
I'll shed no tears at Keldeo or Latias moving on either, they were too good on the whole for my liking.
That said, I'm looking at these newcomers with a mix of intrigue and trepidation. Blastoise has a little more competition as a Spinner now. While I don't think Donphan, Forretress or Tentacruel will trouble its position as a bulky spinner much, Starmie's arrival definitely gives a pretty tempting alternative if your team appreciates a more offensive spinner. And while Donphan, Forretress and Tentacruel are probably worse overall than M-Blastoise, if you run one of those you free up your mega slot - that's an interesting and perhaps worthwhile tradeoff to consider.
I'm cursing under my breath slightly at seeing Klefki and Sableye in the tier. I just know that those are gonna be a pain in the ass. I expect to see even more Florges to both smack Sableye about with Moonblast and cure the burns it spreads around. Klefki is probably tittering to itself; it's arriving just as the tier's best defoggers are leaving, leaving it more or less at liberty to either set up spikes or screens. More Defog Mew is possible as a result. I just hope that Swagplay doesn't become fashionable now.
Shuckle's big chance at seeing some action above NU has probably just been cruelly ripped away now that Galvantula is here.
Cloyster and Salamence have me sweating a bit. It's a good job that I have Mega Aggron on my team, he's probably going to be working overtime to keep those two in check.
I think this is gonna shake up the tier quite a bit, but I think that it'll mostly be for the better.
Don't forget Smeargle is also in UU now. So far the only former OU Pokemon I've seen is Donphan (though I've already added a Salamence and Galvantula to at least one team), but some of these Pokemon are going to be absolutely brutal.
I knew I was forgetting something - Smeargle is gonna have a much happier time in UU with less reliable Spore blockers. That might be Forretress' niche - it has Overcoat to block Spore and can spin Sticky Web away.
holy shit, big changes
considerations:
-is blissey close to dropping? chansey leaving the metagame will result in a VERY GREATLY MASSIVE wave of broken pokemons (hydreigon, houndoominite, magnezone... a lot).
-is swagger banned? if so, sableye and klefki will be sooooo broken too.
-salamence dropping is going to be interesting, if no more fairys drop, it's going to be overpowered i think.
-cloyster could be banned already
-forretress :D
-donphan, tentacruel are shit, starmie is going to be interesting in the chanseyless metagame.
-galvantula and trevenant suck
considerations:
-is blissey close to dropping? chansey leaving the metagame will result in a VERY GREATLY MASSIVE wave of broken pokemons (hydreigon, houndoominite, magnezone... a lot).
-is swagger banned? if so, sableye and klefki will be sooooo broken too.
-salamence dropping is going to be interesting, if no more fairys drop, it's going to be overpowered i think.
-cloyster could be banned already
-forretress :D
-donphan, tentacruel are shit, starmie is going to be interesting in the chanseyless metagame.
-galvantula and trevenant suck
yay no more Jesus teams with Chanseys OP "resurrections"
this is a huge shift for UU for sure, but I'm just really glad Chansey is gone, now special attackers can actually be threatening.
As for smeargle, if spore blockers become common it just goes to dark void, which can mess you up as you're stretching to spore block with fortress and now have a dormant spinner.
this is a huge shift for UU for sure, but I'm just really glad Chansey is gone, now special attackers can actually be threatening.
As for smeargle, if spore blockers become common it just goes to dark void, which can mess you up as you're stretching to spore block with fortress and now have a dormant spinner.
Starmie is going to be amazing in UU, what with its great speed tier and ability to threaten the many Fire-types in the tier. I can definitely see it going a more offensive route than it used to in OU, more based on damage output and less on Rapid Spin.
Tentacruel might give Florges a run for its money as best special wall in UU, now that Chansey is gone. It can defenitely deal with the likes of Nidoking and Houndoom much better, and Rapid Spin is a great bonus. This could be a fantastic AV user.
Speaking of Rapin Spin, I'm glad to see Donphan finally drop to UU where it belongs. Not that I have anything against it : I think it'll be a great Spinner and AV tank, and being able to hit Fire-types wth a super-effective STAB really helps.
Trevenant is going to have a hard time in the tier, but I think it can manage. The Sitrus/Harvest set is still really hard to take down if you don't have a super-effective STAB. Unfortunately, that's everywhere in UU.
Galvantula and Smeargle are really going to mess up with the speed tiers, especially since priority isn't anywhere near as prominent in UU as it is in OU
Foretress I can't see doing very well in UU, mainly because of how prominent Fire-types are in this tier. It also has to compete with Tentacruel as a defensive spinner, which seems far better suited for UU
I'm not sure why Sableye was OU in the first place, but now, it can be annoying in its proper tier. I actually think it might be worse in UU, since many powerful sweepers don't really care about burn.
Klefki is still going to be annoying, but those Fire and Ground weakness is going to hurt it a lot.
I've already 6-0'd OU teams with Cloyster last gen, so I can definitely see this being a massive threat. This is probably the most likely Pokemon to get banned, besides Salamence which I have nothing to really add about. If Zapdos got banned (I'm not too sure why it did), I'd be surprised to see Salamence stay very long.
Tentacruel might give Florges a run for its money as best special wall in UU, now that Chansey is gone. It can defenitely deal with the likes of Nidoking and Houndoom much better, and Rapid Spin is a great bonus. This could be a fantastic AV user.
Speaking of Rapin Spin, I'm glad to see Donphan finally drop to UU where it belongs. Not that I have anything against it : I think it'll be a great Spinner and AV tank, and being able to hit Fire-types wth a super-effective STAB really helps.
Trevenant is going to have a hard time in the tier, but I think it can manage. The Sitrus/Harvest set is still really hard to take down if you don't have a super-effective STAB. Unfortunately, that's everywhere in UU.
Galvantula and Smeargle are really going to mess up with the speed tiers, especially since priority isn't anywhere near as prominent in UU as it is in OU
Foretress I can't see doing very well in UU, mainly because of how prominent Fire-types are in this tier. It also has to compete with Tentacruel as a defensive spinner, which seems far better suited for UU
I'm not sure why Sableye was OU in the first place, but now, it can be annoying in its proper tier. I actually think it might be worse in UU, since many powerful sweepers don't really care about burn.
Klefki is still going to be annoying, but those Fire and Ground weakness is going to hurt it a lot.
I've already 6-0'd OU teams with Cloyster last gen, so I can definitely see this being a massive threat. This is probably the most likely Pokemon to get banned, besides Salamence which I have nothing to really add about. If Zapdos got banned (I'm not too sure why it did), I'd be surprised to see Salamence stay very long.
I don't think Hydreigon will be going any time soon. Florges still walls everything except Iron Tail to hell and back, barely even being 3HKOd by Flash Cannon. Hydreigon also now has huge competition with Salamence who is now the fastest Dragon in the tier. Mega Houndoom now has a new Pokemon to speed tie it in Starmie, who can OHKO with Hydro Pump and outspeeds before it Mega evolves. The tier DEFINITELY got more offensive with Chansey's and Latias' exit, but there are plenty of other ways to check new and old threats.
Naw man, Cloyster can be dealt with. Its special defense is absolutely pitiful, and there exist a number of mons in UU that can take a +2 hit and hit back, in some cases OHKO back, and in some cases tank several hits: Mew, Cresselia, Reuniclus, Suicune, Slowbro, etc. Plenty more.
Now that hawlucha's hardest counter(zapdos) is gone and it gained two new checks (sableye, klefki). Time for a lucha fiesta and possibly back in S tier?
It already is.
I haven't seen much of Hawlucha, but it's one of the only viable Pokemon with over 110 Speed, and Unburden is really good, so I can imagine it being a major threat.
I'd say Doublade was a harder counter than Zapdos
The amount of hazard abusers in UU now seems even crazier than last gen. Xatu might just be able to give itself a reason to be used again at this rate. Rapid spinning and Defog look pretty much required on non-HO teams at this point.
I expect to see more lum berries and/or special sweepers now. Kelfki and Sableye will drive people nuts otherwise, though they'll do that anyway.
I can't say I'm happy to see Salamence in the tier, but most other threats seem manageable at least initially.
I expect to see more lum berries and/or special sweepers now. Kelfki and Sableye will drive people nuts otherwise, though they'll do that anyway.
I can't say I'm happy to see Salamence in the tier, but most other threats seem manageable at least initially.
If that's the case, the metagame looks great for Absol. I didn't even realise he was allowed in UU until very recently.
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UU just got so much better without Chansey! :D Not only that, but we got not one, but four amazing Rapid Spinners which UU really needed! I wonder if Blastoise will have a decline in usage now. The best Sticky Webbers in the game also dropped down apparently and Cloyster and Salamence will make amazing sweepers. I'm personally not too happy to see the Prankstermons down here, but it's not that big of a deal. It's just that they'll probably be so common now. I'd rather have them over Chansey though. I'm pretty indifferent about the bans other than Chansey. I didn't feel that they were particularly broken here, but they deserved to be in OU. Overall I'm really happy with the changes and this should be good for the metagame. :)
Starmie in UU? Never though I'd see the day. Oh well, we have a pretty fast offensive spinner, so that should be great for teams that need a spin. I like using Galvantula and Trevenant in OU despite the rep against them, I'll try them here I guess. What I'm really excited for though is Salamence, who I have been waiting for to drop since forever, I'm going to love it. The others I don't care much for but they should be interesting regardless.
Still, regardless, this is a huge shift, and RIP Starmie's OU status.
Still, regardless, this is a huge shift, and RIP Starmie's OU status.
So long as Gengar has Levitate and the stat spread it has, I really don't see it ever dropping. Obligatory rejoicing about Chansey leaving the tier. Anyway, on to the drops. May edit with more later:
Salamence: Double Dragon just got a lot scarier. In particular, a combination of Haxorus + Salamence looks damn scary as Haxorus can force in and outright KO Florges, M-Aggron, and the like to open to door to Salamence. Mixed, Scarf, and DD are all looking viable in their own ways. I wouldn't write off bulky DD either, though I think that has a few more issues.
Sableye: stall teams got a new weapon and a new enemy at the same time. Great support movepool and Prankster makes it hell to deal with. If you can't OHKO it, it can and will stall you out. End of story.
Klefki: Same as above, but it has Spikes and a Steel-typing to make it worse for Stall teams to deal with (Toxic immunity yo) Fairy typing is also nice to gain the lost Dark resistance and to neuter the Fighting weakness. Immunity to Dragon never hurt anything either.
Starmie: High Speed, solid Special Attack, and Rapid Spin. I can see this being one of the best late-game cleaners in the tier. AV users like Metagross and Escavalier can be some major issues for it though.
Tentacruel / Donphan: Good to see some defensive Rapid Spinners in the tier. Atm, I think Donphan will have a bit more success considering M-Blastoise is still in the tier (unless I missed it going to OU with this change, in which case, ignore this) but Tentacruel does give us another viable TSpikes user in the tier. Nidoking just got to be a much more potent stallbreaker.
Now for some of the things that moved up and how I think they'll be missed / not missed:
Keldeo: While Keldeo was one of the bigger threats, it was balanced out really well in the UU meta. I think one thing to look out for is the possible rise of Choice Specs Vaporeon. Without Chansey or Keldeo in the tier, Specs Vaporeon just got a good bit more viability, though M-Blastoise and Slowbro are still around.
Latias: Another major threat that seemed to be very well balanced in UU. Latias is really going to be missed on offensive teams as she was one of the best offensive Defog users. It doesn't help matters any that we also lost another great offensive Defog user in Zapdos.
Zapdos: Same story as Latias, but Zapdos was incredibly versatile. Considering he wasn't above the UU cutoff by much, we may not have seen the last of Zapdos. Sad to see this one go as it fit onto virtually any type of team depending on the set it wants to use.
Chansey: Do I really need to say anything about this? Best special wall in the entire game. How it was UU in the first place I'll never really know. CroCune got a huge boost and be on the look out for (SubCM) Raikou now as well since Zapdos also departed.
Salamence: Double Dragon just got a lot scarier. In particular, a combination of Haxorus + Salamence looks damn scary as Haxorus can force in and outright KO Florges, M-Aggron, and the like to open to door to Salamence. Mixed, Scarf, and DD are all looking viable in their own ways. I wouldn't write off bulky DD either, though I think that has a few more issues.
Sableye: stall teams got a new weapon and a new enemy at the same time. Great support movepool and Prankster makes it hell to deal with. If you can't OHKO it, it can and will stall you out. End of story.
Klefki: Same as above, but it has Spikes and a Steel-typing to make it worse for Stall teams to deal with (Toxic immunity yo) Fairy typing is also nice to gain the lost Dark resistance and to neuter the Fighting weakness. Immunity to Dragon never hurt anything either.
Starmie: High Speed, solid Special Attack, and Rapid Spin. I can see this being one of the best late-game cleaners in the tier. AV users like Metagross and Escavalier can be some major issues for it though.
Tentacruel / Donphan: Good to see some defensive Rapid Spinners in the tier. Atm, I think Donphan will have a bit more success considering M-Blastoise is still in the tier (unless I missed it going to OU with this change, in which case, ignore this) but Tentacruel does give us another viable TSpikes user in the tier. Nidoking just got to be a much more potent stallbreaker.
Now for some of the things that moved up and how I think they'll be missed / not missed:
Keldeo: While Keldeo was one of the bigger threats, it was balanced out really well in the UU meta. I think one thing to look out for is the possible rise of Choice Specs Vaporeon. Without Chansey or Keldeo in the tier, Specs Vaporeon just got a good bit more viability, though M-Blastoise and Slowbro are still around.
Latias: Another major threat that seemed to be very well balanced in UU. Latias is really going to be missed on offensive teams as she was one of the best offensive Defog users. It doesn't help matters any that we also lost another great offensive Defog user in Zapdos.
Zapdos: Same story as Latias, but Zapdos was incredibly versatile. Considering he wasn't above the UU cutoff by much, we may not have seen the last of Zapdos. Sad to see this one go as it fit onto virtually any type of team depending on the set it wants to use.
Chansey: Do I really need to say anything about this? Best special wall in the entire game. How it was UU in the first place I'll never really know. CroCune got a huge boost and be on the look out for (SubCM) Raikou now as well since Zapdos also departed.
Man, I'm gonna miss Keldeo so much as it is pretty much the only good offensive check to Crawdaunt. I don't even know what to replace it with, Hydreigon takes a crapton of damage and loses a lot of offensive presence without LO :( and don't tell me about Virizion kay
Now that freaking Salamence is in the tier I'm seeing a lot of potential for Dragon spam. Tbh something like SD Lum Haxorus + DD Salamence sounds really really good on its own but paired with like Magnezone and Wynaut it seems almost unfair lol (edit ninja'd)
Klefki could potentially suck in a tier without pink blobs or Rotom-W or Clefable but I mean if Jirachi is tolerable then I guess I can deal with it... brb gonna make a team with Reuniclus.
Now that freaking Salamence is in the tier I'm seeing a lot of potential for Dragon spam. Tbh something like SD Lum Haxorus + DD Salamence sounds really really good on its own but paired with like Magnezone and Wynaut it seems almost unfair lol (edit ninja'd)
Klefki could potentially suck in a tier without pink blobs or Rotom-W or Clefable but I mean if Jirachi is tolerable then I guess I can deal with it... brb gonna make a team with Reuniclus.
Ground-types and Electric-types could do some damage to Klefki. Klefki can't really do anything to Mega Ampharos in particular besides slap it with weak-ass Foul Play and set up screens while you 2HKO with Thunderbolt and Focus Blast/3HKO with Screens.
Looking at a lot of the drops, there are a couple of things that really have looked to benefit.
Nidoking: No Chansey makes it the premier wallbreaker in UU. Virtually no Stall core is going to beat it when it runs Sludge Wave, Earth Power, Focus Blast, and Thunderbolt / Fire Blast. It drops Florges, Umbreon, Forretress, Tentacruel, Empoleon, and many others. About the only 2 defensive Pokemon that really have a chance off the top of my head are AV Escavalier and AV Slowbro... and that depends on the 4th move Nidoking runs. Serious threat to every stall team now imo.
Mega Ampharos: It is now the best offensive-inclined answer to Tornadus-T, Crawdaunt, and most other Electric-types. It has the bulk to check Starmie and OHKO it, and is one of the few slower Pokemon that denies Salamence and Haxorus a switch-in with the threat of Dragon Pulse. It does have some issues with Salamence once it does switch-in, but considering M-Ampharos is already great with Florges and AV Slowbro, this shouldn't be a major concern.
Empoleon: With Latias and Zapdos gone, Empoleon is about the only defensive Defog user remaining. It has good special bulk and solid Special Attack to make many opposing threats think twice before switching in. Assault Vest lost even more value now that Zapdos is gone, but it also doesn't have to worry about Keldeo anymore. Mixed bag, but overall, I think Empoleon won.
Vaporeon: While not appearing to win at first, Keldeo was the biggest roadblock to Vaporeon running a Specs set. With no more Keldeo, it's highly possible that Vaporeon's old DPP Choice Specs set could make a comeback in XY UU. Chansey leaving the tier only opens this door even more. Tentacruel is a hard counter to her now though while defensive sets can do very little to Trevenant. (all the more reason to run Specs) However, defensive sets can also run Ice Beam to check Salamence now, so that's a plus.
Raikou: Look out for this beast. Remember the beast that was SubCM Raikou last generation? Chansey leaving just made it viable again. It outpaces Salamence, rocks Tentacruel's world, and can simply blast through Klefki and Sableye with more offensive sets. Zapdos leaving makes Choice Specs Raikou incredibly dangerous since it won't have to compete with the harder hitting Zapdos (Magnezone is super slow), so look out. AV sets got a bit more viable as well with Starmie entering the tier as the AV boost will make Speed ties much less risky.
Nidoking: No Chansey makes it the premier wallbreaker in UU. Virtually no Stall core is going to beat it when it runs Sludge Wave, Earth Power, Focus Blast, and Thunderbolt / Fire Blast. It drops Florges, Umbreon, Forretress, Tentacruel, Empoleon, and many others. About the only 2 defensive Pokemon that really have a chance off the top of my head are AV Escavalier and AV Slowbro... and that depends on the 4th move Nidoking runs. Serious threat to every stall team now imo.
Mega Ampharos: It is now the best offensive-inclined answer to Tornadus-T, Crawdaunt, and most other Electric-types. It has the bulk to check Starmie and OHKO it, and is one of the few slower Pokemon that denies Salamence and Haxorus a switch-in with the threat of Dragon Pulse. It does have some issues with Salamence once it does switch-in, but considering M-Ampharos is already great with Florges and AV Slowbro, this shouldn't be a major concern.
Empoleon: With Latias and Zapdos gone, Empoleon is about the only defensive Defog user remaining. It has good special bulk and solid Special Attack to make many opposing threats think twice before switching in. Assault Vest lost even more value now that Zapdos is gone, but it also doesn't have to worry about Keldeo anymore. Mixed bag, but overall, I think Empoleon won.
Vaporeon: While not appearing to win at first, Keldeo was the biggest roadblock to Vaporeon running a Specs set. With no more Keldeo, it's highly possible that Vaporeon's old DPP Choice Specs set could make a comeback in XY UU. Chansey leaving the tier only opens this door even more. Tentacruel is a hard counter to her now though while defensive sets can do very little to Trevenant. (all the more reason to run Specs) However, defensive sets can also run Ice Beam to check Salamence now, so that's a plus.
Raikou: Look out for this beast. Remember the beast that was SubCM Raikou last generation? Chansey leaving just made it viable again. It outpaces Salamence, rocks Tentacruel's world, and can simply blast through Klefki and Sableye with more offensive sets. Zapdos leaving makes Choice Specs Raikou incredibly dangerous since it won't have to compete with the harder hitting Zapdos (Magnezone is super slow), so look out. AV sets got a bit more viable as well with Starmie entering the tier as the AV boost will make Speed ties much less risky.
With a boatload of new viable spinners that don't simply 2 shot every ghost in the tier, two of the three best defoggers getting booted to OU, and the inclusion of a new potent spike stacker in klefk does anyone else think that Spike stacking plus spin blocker teams are going to be big in UU again? Sableye in particular gets bonus points as a spin blocker for also countering what is now by far the best defogger in the tier (support mew).
Oh, and Gengar is now officially the only pokemon left in the "OU in every generation" club :(.
Oh, and Gengar is now officially the only pokemon left in the "OU in every generation" club :(.
Boorego , well, there's still Empoleon as a Defog user. And it's not like Sableye can easily switch-in on it due to the threat of it walking into a Specs Hydro Pump. (I don't need calcs on that since I know the result won't be pretty) Spike stacking is a good bit more viable now without Latias and Zapdos since both could not only use Defog, but were also immune to Spikes altogether. Roserade got a serious boost considering she was vulnerable to the aforementioned Latias and Zapdos. In fact, she can pair pretty well with Sableye considering she can easily switch-in on Florges to use it as Spikes fodder and Offensive Spikes Roserade trashes M-Blastoise while fairing much better against Empoleon on average. (Ice Beam kinda hurts though...)
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