You couldn't careless what the drawbacks are? This just goes to show selfish and irresponsible you are. And if you spent 5 minutes with Google typing in "How can we feed the world without industrial farming" then you would be able to find an answer. Click here if you really don't want to Google it yourself. Addressing what you have to say about my "hippie organic, free range, vaccine free, hydroponic bull crap" I'd like to say good luck finding another resourceful, non-wasteful, and simple way that benefit small farms, and our health. Speaking of health THIS is the thread I have talking about how meat and milk isn't necessary for our bodies and is only eaten because of palate pleasure.
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Serious Industrial Farming
- Thread starter Dandatpenguin
- Start date
Maybe it wouldn't be incumbent upon us to "feed the world" if we weren't so hellbent on exploiting other countries for their resources by dispatching economic hitmen to destabilize their civilizations, plunging people into massive debts that they can't ever hope to repay, and replacing their leaders with our own US-interest-friendly puppets. Just a thought. Too bad the damage has already been done, though. We made the mess, now we have to clean it up, but industrial farming is fundamentally unsustainable. Using 70% of the world's agricultural resources to make 30% of the world's food is hardly a preferable tradeoff. We already make more than enough food to feed the world, but no one has the money to buy it. By that logic, we could end homelessness by making a ton more houses. The US government and many other governments subsidize entire fields of crops just to let them rot. We could feed millions with that, but then the banks and commodity speculators would not profit, and the big industrial farmers would not get subsidy money. Who pays for all that waste? We do.
IMO, make veggies taste more like meat. Then we'll talk.
Seriously, that's why I only like a few kinds of vegetables like onion, corn, peppers, and almost all of the other crap (broccoli, zucchini, etc) tastes like shit to me, and others like mushrooms gross me out too (sorry I don't eat fungus that grows off of dead material), so I am mostly a meat eater. So rather than changing perspectives on what's healthy, why not find a way to mask or change flavors of vegetables to be more broadly appealing? Taste and visualization are far more important factors for getting people to eat stuff I'd think over knowing it's good for them. Splice them genes people!
Seriously, that's why I only like a few kinds of vegetables like onion, corn, peppers, and almost all of the other crap (broccoli, zucchini, etc) tastes like shit to me, and others like mushrooms gross me out too (sorry I don't eat fungus that grows off of dead material), so I am mostly a meat eater. So rather than changing perspectives on what's healthy, why not find a way to mask or change flavors of vegetables to be more broadly appealing? Taste and visualization are far more important factors for getting people to eat stuff I'd think over knowing it's good for them. Splice them genes people!
May I direct you to this website? http://gardein.com/
As long as it's tasty when it reaches my plate, I don't care man. To me organic food just means: "Oh this is gonna cost out the ass compared to this equal product."
I wouldn't exactly call animals who've been injected with hormones and antibiotics "equal" to animals that have been raised on a farm naturally and aren't subjected to these horrific actions. I suggest you read the comment below.
Equal to my intestines. Make your free ranged hippie garbage cost equal or less than other things and maybe you'll have a fighting chance.
Who cares about cows, chickens and pigs? They aren't pets. They're food.
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
I couldn't give a crap whether or not it's necessary for my body. I want it and billions of other people want it. Who the heck are you to tell me I can't have it. And the only way for all of us to have it is through industrial farming. If you don't like it, don't take part. Have fun munching your beans and wheatgrass.
Honestly, I don't know what the answer is-- but I have my doubts about the sustainability of almost all modern food productions methods.
The biggest issues off the top of my head for each food group (though honestly, all the industries have major problems beyond these)--
Fishing-- over fishing... ._.
Meat production-- over-use of antibiotics, which also cut away at our stock of effective antibiotics for HUMAN medicine
Mass farmlands (veggies)-- over-use of pesticides (which has all sorts of environmental consequences...) and the resulting over-dependance on the Honey Bee (the whole industry is dependent on trucked bees), which are now experiencing a global die off because of guess what-- human abuse (pesticides, over-stress, etc. etc.).
There are going to be major challenges for all food producing practices going into the future. There are ethical issues yes, but to me they are secondary to the dire questions of sustainable practices that can support human populations, and the environments they live in.
The biggest issues off the top of my head for each food group (though honestly, all the industries have major problems beyond these)--
Fishing-- over fishing... ._.
Meat production-- over-use of antibiotics, which also cut away at our stock of effective antibiotics for HUMAN medicine
Mass farmlands (veggies)-- over-use of pesticides (which has all sorts of environmental consequences...) and the resulting over-dependance on the Honey Bee (the whole industry is dependent on trucked bees), which are now experiencing a global die off because of guess what-- human abuse (pesticides, over-stress, etc. etc.).
There are going to be major challenges for all food producing practices going into the future. There are ethical issues yes, but to me they are secondary to the dire questions of sustainable practices that can support human populations, and the environments they live in.
So tell us why millions of people starve to death every year?
Farming in the magnitude we do is just going to screw over future generations. It's money now over health later.
What you're saying is hypocritical... expanding ANY modern food industry (yes fruits/veggies too) to the scale where everyone is fed would have tremendous future health and environmental consequences.
It amazes me how much stupidity can arise from such a small and simple comment. First of all I don't care you put in your body and I don't care if billions of other people eat meat. But who am I? I am a concerned individual who cares for the well-being of other human beings and non-human beings, you must understand that everything you do/say has an affect on someone else and that you do not live in a bubble.
I've tried some of it (father's a mostly vegetarian cause of medical stuff, so I occasionally put up with weird stuff). It's...edible, but eh, I didn't care for it.
Please explain to me how organic farming can cause future health and environmental consequences.
Ahh yes another hippie comment suggesting I make food cost less. You do realize that the same corporations that put antibiotics, and hormones into animals are the same ones that are causing these prices to go up. Oh the irony. While cows, chickens, and pigs may not be pets in your culture they are in others. In China cats and dogs are eaten there does the same logic apply to them too? And what's the actual difference between a pig and a dog? They both have ears, mouths, tails, eyes, and have the will to live.
I was referring to inorganic farming that relies on fertilizers, pesticides, and DNA engineering. If you want to avoid confusion, write a better opening post.
By the way, Organic Farming is a potential and promising answer, but data concerning its economic viability (and yield) are questionable on a large scale-- no matter how you slice it, Organic processes require greater labor costs, and reliance on crop diversity also means more lower benefits of scale.
Also, while naturally derived, organic pest control methods rely on the same chemicals (simply found from natural sources instead of synthesized ones)-- which, while likely will have less environmental impact, is far from assured to not cause any.
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And I'll gladly eat the cat or the dog too. Except probably not the cat since you probably couldn't make a breed with enough meat or fat to make it worthwhile.
Also not opposed to eating whale or dolphin either, as long as it's done sustainably, with market prices that reflect sustainable fishing (the Japanese and the economist in me...). Though personally don't think Whale tastes that good... if I want a sorta, fishy meat, I'd say Horse is better-- very popular in my Wife's hometown. Horse Sukiyaki... mmm... good...
Greater labor costs that affect who? Big businesses or the consumers. If this were to happen and be accepted then more jobs would be available to pay for these foods, all of the farms that we have now that are being used to feed farm animals can easily be integrated to be organic once concentration camps for animals could be turned into farms. And my post title would've explained enough to a degree where confusion wouldn't come up but a moderator/admin decided to change it.
mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
Because of global inequality. Not because the megafarm on the other side of my town is sucking the life out of Gia Mother Earth.
Care all you want. We are going to eat what we want to eat and we are going to farm how we want to farm. You can go chew on free range bark in your own little corner with your friends. Whine all you want about how we're supposedly hurting your earth and how we ought to change the way we live to fit your values. We don't care.
Consumers of course-- hard to feed the world, when no one can afford to buy the food.
Also, title or no, your opening post really sucks as a discussion starter. Try outlining the issues, and linking to relevant articles and data sources...
I suggest you watch this video
it doesnt make sense to eat less meat or to care about any consequences mass farming has for the animals and ourself. eating huge amount of meat is easy, cheap and tasty. giving that would be a disadvantage as we can't gain anything immediate from it. it takes effort via giving up time, money and comfort.
to think that a situation of an all organic and sustainable farming system is achieveable, is idealism, because the majority of humans do not care enough to give up their comfort of the present system. it is not in the nature of humans or any living thing to give up an advantage.
that being said, i like to believe in my idealism. that's why im a vegetarian and i try to get as many sustainably and organicly produced food as i can. being a poor student does limit that to a certain degree, but i am constantly improving. getting milk and cheese that has been produced without mass farming is kinda hard. i also dont think that eating meat is bad. i just dont like the current dimension of meat consume. i can buy meat for 1 euro at the supermarket. the only way that can be achieved is via mass farmig under horrible conditions for the animals and the massive use of chemicals (antibiotics, pain killers and steroids). in my opinion it's not hard to see that that is wrong and unnatural. also saying that we can't feed all the people with out mass farming, is wrong. the current agriculture is capable of feeding all* people plus billions of cows, pigs, chicken etc... (the food given to farm animals would suffice for like 4 humanities)
(*almost all, but that would be another discussion)
btw i realised, that i like the the idea of giving up meat, while i was thinking about how stupid vegetarism is and how i could never imagine to not eat meat. so maybe this thread can change the mind of some people here, who are argueing against the evil "salad tosser", "hippies" and "tupperware fanatics" ;D
to think that a situation of an all organic and sustainable farming system is achieveable, is idealism, because the majority of humans do not care enough to give up their comfort of the present system. it is not in the nature of humans or any living thing to give up an advantage.
that being said, i like to believe in my idealism. that's why im a vegetarian and i try to get as many sustainably and organicly produced food as i can. being a poor student does limit that to a certain degree, but i am constantly improving. getting milk and cheese that has been produced without mass farming is kinda hard. i also dont think that eating meat is bad. i just dont like the current dimension of meat consume. i can buy meat for 1 euro at the supermarket. the only way that can be achieved is via mass farmig under horrible conditions for the animals and the massive use of chemicals (antibiotics, pain killers and steroids). in my opinion it's not hard to see that that is wrong and unnatural. also saying that we can't feed all the people with out mass farming, is wrong. the current agriculture is capable of feeding all* people plus billions of cows, pigs, chicken etc... (the food given to farm animals would suffice for like 4 humanities)
(*almost all, but that would be another discussion)
btw i realised, that i like the the idea of giving up meat, while i was thinking about how stupid vegetarism is and how i could never imagine to not eat meat. so maybe this thread can change the mind of some people here, who are argueing against the evil "salad tosser", "hippies" and "tupperware fanatics" ;D
Real talk people should just get over with it and start eating bugs because:
1: They're apparently really good
2: There's tons and tons of them
3: They require much less food and resources than mammals
4: They can live off of our food remains etc.
However, until my super market provides good edible bugs I'll continue eating meat like there's no tomorrow. It's way too good to pass up imo
1: They're apparently really good
2: There's tons and tons of them
3: They require much less food and resources than mammals
4: They can live off of our food remains etc.
However, until my super market provides good edible bugs I'll continue eating meat like there's no tomorrow. It's way too good to pass up imo
Gotta agree that industrial/large scale agriculture is the only way to get food for the 7 billions or so people inhabiting this planet. Personally I do believe Earth is grossly overpopulated but I digress, this is not the point of the thread.
Of course anyone would like a handcrafted Pagani car or Armani dress. However those come in small numbers and at a high price, so we drive around in Honda Civics and wear H&M clothes. Same with organic farming. Organic farming simply can't supply enough food for everyone.
It is a simple math fact that eating vegetables directly instead of feeding them to cattle and then eat meat is more efficient. There's no denying that. However mankind has been eating meat since forever and you can't change habits worldwide overnight. As an intelligent specie capable of abstract thinking, humans do a lot more than merely surviving (think of it, art is utterly useless from a strictly survival point of view, but we craft and enjoy it worldwide). This includes food, we eat what we like, not what we need, at least those of us who can afford it.
I'm not saying I like the food industry as it is, but right now I see little alternatives.
Of course anyone would like a handcrafted Pagani car or Armani dress. However those come in small numbers and at a high price, so we drive around in Honda Civics and wear H&M clothes. Same with organic farming. Organic farming simply can't supply enough food for everyone.
It is a simple math fact that eating vegetables directly instead of feeding them to cattle and then eat meat is more efficient. There's no denying that. However mankind has been eating meat since forever and you can't change habits worldwide overnight. As an intelligent specie capable of abstract thinking, humans do a lot more than merely surviving (think of it, art is utterly useless from a strictly survival point of view, but we craft and enjoy it worldwide). This includes food, we eat what we like, not what we need, at least those of us who can afford it.
I'm not saying I like the food industry as it is, but right now I see little alternatives.