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* Lastly, I really think you should include Damp Rock Uxie as a backup rain setter. Its bulk is phenomenal, it has great speed, Dual Screens, and U-Turn, which allows it to easily pivot to a rain sweeper after rain dance is used.
i love uxie as a rain setter for the same reasons. it can also set up stealth rock.
i also really like jirachi for the similar reasons of using u-turn / stealth rock / screens, and it can even wish pass. in addition to supporting the team, he can use thunder (with 60% para chance), water pulse (with 40% confusion chance), and put out some of his own offensive pressure. and just like bronzong, rain negates one of his weaknesses.
Moltres is awesome but is just too slow considering its nasty type defensively, which also calls for a 4x sneaky pebbles weakness. Basically it just calls for too much support when you can use something faster like Volcarona if you want something like Moltres who, while still has a 4x SR weakness, has better coverage(at least better than Moltres due to bug buzz and firey dance), more durability Special Defense-wise, and can set up if need be while still being able to pose as an immediate threat. I guess Moltres hits like a nuclear bomb but requiring Rain support, spin support, AND sticky web/t-wave support just seems like a bit too much.
What? 4x Resist to Bug and Grass. Resists Fighting, Fairy, Steel, Fire. Immunity to Ground and the ability to soak up Burns/Will-O-Wisps isn't all that bad defensively and it can spread them as well.
Moltres is immune to Sticky Web.
Rain is not required for Moltres as it just means it can use STAB Fire Blast/Flamethrowers and hurt things when Rain isn't up.
Spin Support is neglible at this point with Defog and Rapid Spin being widely accessible.
Can even Pressure Stall PP on certain things with SubRoost sets.
In most cases Uxie seems to be a worse Deoxys - they have the same typing, only Uxie has Heal Bell and U-turn whereas Deoxys has Recover. I much prefer the idea of Deoxys-D as a rain setter/Stealth Rock user because with Magic Coat the speed doesn't matter to me as much as the bulk.
Uxie does have a niche if your team relies to any extent on Hydration-Rest, though, because you don't want to be caught needing to Rest on the last turn of rain; Heal Bell eases some of the pressure.
In most cases Uxie seems to be a worse Deoxys - they have the same typing, only Uxie has Heal Bell and U-turn whereas Deoxys has Recover. I much prefer the idea of Deoxys-D as a rain setter/Stealth Rock user because with Magic Coat the speed doesn't matter to me as much as the bulk.
Uxie does have a niche if your team relies to any extent on Hydration-Rest, though, because you don't want to be caught needing to Rest on the last turn of rain; Heal Bell eases some of the pressure.
Uxie allows your Sweepers to safely switch in thanks to U-Turn (when it is slower) or Explosion.
That means:
1. Your opponent stays in and you get a sweeper out
2. Your opponent expects you to bring in a sweeper, brings in a counter/check but now you bring in a counter to counter the counter/check.
Far from just being a Tail Glow sweeper, Manaphy is also a great rain setter. Here it can preform stall, absorb status (to an extent, you're not going to want to bring it out against a grass Spore user or an electric Thunder Wave user) and it has a slowish U-Turn - allowing you to bring out a sweeper or whatever safely. U-Turn is really the huge advantage it has over the likes of Goodra and Vaporeon for that Hydration niche. Scald is preferred, as even unboosted in the rain it hits for nice damage.
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Icy Wind
Forgoing Specs power for the sheer ability to wall break and remove other weather inducers, especially Charizard-Y which Keldeo out speeds it acts as a great lure for (thinking it cannot be OHKO'd and can in turn OHKO with Solar Beam) - have a look:
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hidden Power Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 302-359 (101.3 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 504-598 (124.7 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 499-588 (118.8 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 478-564 (67.8 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A Gen V classic, removing this thing's checks makes it unstoppable - and though rain isn't remotely necessary on this set it really helps you to get that first Moxie boost. Taunt prevents phazing, stops protect usage if they are trying to PP stall Bounce (protecting every other turn) and the Lum Berry protects you from attempts to shut you down with status (or provides a set up opportunity in the right circumstances). I don't really think EQ is necessary here, as Water/Flying has practically perfect neutral coverage (resisted by Lanturn, Dry Skin Heliolisk and Empoleon - none of which I've ever seen used yet). Gyarados has naturally good bulk, so getting the first DD in isn't too tricky (and it covers a bit against Bounce's shaky accuracy) - it also resists 3/7 priority move types (Fighting, Steel and Water) and is hit for neutral damage on the rest. I run Jolly so I can outspeed Timid Specs Jolteon and Mega Manectric at the +1, which I think is more useful than the negligible boost of running Adamant.
Same old Quagsire set as always, if anything made worse by the rain. You may ask why bother running this when you could run Gastrodon then? Well for one thing having an easy check for almost any boosting non-grass physical sweeper is great (far surpassing Gastrodon in terms of utility IMO) but as an added bonus it checks Specs and Air Balloon Jolteon - pretty useful to a rain team (Shadow Ball here is it's most damaging move):
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Jolteon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 110-130 (27.9 - 32.9%) -- 86.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
EDIT: I did attack some pretty sprites, but I guess it isn't playing ball so sorry for the drab post.
Omastar should be mentioned as a Swift Swimmer, as it destroys Flyspam while possessing the power to break down special walls that utterly wall Kingdra, such as Sylveon (Kingdra is really weak compared to Omastar). I prefer Choice Specs to Shell Smash Life Orb though, as Omastar is hard-pressed to find free turns in this metagame to set up and is better off attacking right off the bat. Even Gorebyss got a mention lol, and Omastar outclasses that due to its higher Special Attack and Speed.
How about Rest Hydration Goodra? It has really great typing for rain teams and it can Rain Dance. With Rest and Hydration, you can bulk hits for days and Rest up with no need for lefties or AV which actually makes space for Damp Rock in Goodra's item slot. Dragon Pulse and Muddy Water are the attack choices in my opinion, for STAB, and with the rain boost Muddy Water can be a horrifying attack with accuracy being its only downfall.
Klefki is a good for offence rain because of priority rain dance and spikes which gives it a niche over other prankster setters like thundurus and tornadus. Also it's main problems like ground types and heatran will have a tough time with the water types on your team too.
rain teams are currently the most devastating team archetypes in ou. i am currently usin 1 and have lost only one match so far with it due to a hydro pump miss on keldeo. i am using deoxys-s, thundurus, lum berry sword's dance kabutops, ludicolo, specs keldeo and ofc the most important member politoed. ia m currently in 1500s.
Omastar is a really strong Specs user atm, and Keldeo very much appreciates Omastar's free switch into Talonflame. Importantly, Omastar can also tank as many as two Mach/Bullet punches from Conkeldurr/Scizor. For a Swift Swimmer to be able to shrug off SE priority in a pinch is amazing, especially since it has no problem OHKOing those users with a tiny bit of prior damage. Hydro Pump is a great nuke, and Surf is usually enough to clean up late game, so strong is the Specs set in rain.
LO Keldeo and Specs Omastar almost feel like the Talonflame and Staraptor of rain teams lol; water is still crazy spammable, and even many true resists are 2HKO'd by specs+rain+stab boosted Hydro Pumps. Unlike bird spam, however, Keldeo and Omastar have actual defensive presence.
Rain also appreciates Latias. She can be used to Defog, useful since no rain sweeper particularly loves hazards -- and even on more strictly offensive teams (I run Deo-D) she's still a fine offensive switch-in to troublesome Rotom-W, can take out EXTREMELY troublesome Mega Venusaur, and provides an invaluable Healing Wish for status'd/weakened sweepers, whom you can therefore afford to play more aggressively early/midgame.
Politoed imo is rain's biggest liability. The physically defensive set doesn't even switch into Talonflame well, and the fact that there's so much pressure on him to switch in at inopportune times means free turns or nukes for the opponent. Encore is probably his best asset, but he still sucks lol. Best remedy I've found so far is using at least two and preferably three members (preferably forming some kind of semi-independent core) (stuff like Bisharp/Mawile/Thundurus that still get some use from rain work well) that can play the early game or can otherwise carry weight without rain while opening up free turns for the toed. This also preserves your sweepers while the rainless core weakens their checks.
I'm starting to think Drizzle+Swift Swim is still broken.
Politoed might be dead weight, but 8 turns of rain are more than enough to wreck devastation with Kingdra and Kabutops.
Add Manaphy and Thundurus-I (who is a great back-up Rain Dance user by the way) to the mix and it's almost as stupidly OP as it was back in gen 5.
If some of this stuff ends up being suspected again I won't be surprised.
I'm starting to think Drizzle+Swift Swim is still broken.
Politoed might be dead weight, but 8 turns of rain are more than enough to wreck devastation with Kingdra and Kabutops.
Add Manaphy and Thundurus-I (who is a great back-up Rain Dance user by the way) to the mix and it's almost as stupidly OP as it was back in gen 5.
If some of this stuff ends up being suspected again I won't be surprised.
That is very true. Nobody really said that rain sucked now, after all. It was just nerfed. It can still be good if you know what you are doing, as you say.
I'm starting to think Drizzle+Swift Swim is still broken.
Politoed might be dead weight, but 8 turns of rain are more than enough to wreck devastation with Kingdra and Kabutops.
Add Manaphy and Thundurus-I (who is a great back-up Rain Dance user by the way) to the mix and it's almost as stupidly OP as it was back in gen 5.
If some of this stuff ends up being suspected again I won't be surprised.
Swift Swimmers can tear teams up with Rain Dance alone, but it would certainly be less viable without Drizzle. As sucky as Politoed is, it's at the very least not set-up bait due to encore, and Drizzle is auto-rain while Rain Dance wastes a turn. Broken, maybe, but I don't think rain teams are common enough for people to really care. Swagger is only getting suspected because it's "uncompetitive," luck-based and completely obnoxious, rain teams are strong but other forms of HO are too.
I've been using a rain team a lot and it's been pretty fun. I either tear teams apart, or fall flat on my face because they have Ferrothorn, who can be difficult to take out. I've considered running Magenzone just for that SOAB. Quagsire is also a massive pain, as is Mega Vensaur and Chansey who can shrug off Specs Hydro Pumps in rain like they were nothing. Defensive teams in general can give a lot of trouble, but Kabutops and Kingdra completely shred offensive teams.
I started testing out Politoed on his own merits rather than making a rain team.
He actually really works well with Charizard-Y. Sometimes you want to cancel your own weather if your opponent starts to benefit from it.
Rain is very interesting this gen, as most (if not all) of the things that got banned last Gen due to Drizzle (e.g. Drizzle+SS, Tornadus-T, etc.) are released in OU. In fact, many things are improved now like Moltres with the rise of Defog letting SR be much less problematic. Also, Kingdra and Omastar seem to be the premier Swift Swimmers (Kingdra can go mixed or Specs, it can also set rain up and Omastar is very scary with Specs or +2). As Sweep had mentioned, Omastar can effectively wall Talonflame+Mega Pinsir. Dragonite can also do a Rain set though it is not as effective as it used to be.
Alas, rain is not without it's downsides. Mega Charizard Y is very common, although rain can be set after it comes in. Solar Beam utterly destroys Politoed and Manaphy. Mega Tyranitar can also just come in as a normal sand setter and Mega-Evolve after you RD, effectively wasting your turn.
The powerhouses of Rain are very powerful. These include:
Kingdra
Omastar
Keldeo (beware Hydro Pump)
Specs Politoed
Dragonite
Manaphy
Rotom-W
Ferrothorn and Scizor are also quite hard to defeat. VoltTurn+Rain sounds quite interesting with Rotom-W and Scizor.
Bulky pokemon in Rain include:
Ferrothorn
Scizor
Bulky Politoed
Jellicent
Let's see how Rain will impact the metagame this time.
I would definitely add Thundurus as another rain starter. I use a Nasty Plot set with Rain Dance and it has worked out for me so many times on clutch situations. Just when my opponent thinks my rain starters are all gone he gets surprised with a priority rain dance only to get finished off by a rain sweeper.
Mega Scizor is fantastic with some rain support. It provides a nice grass resistance along with solid stats and typing. It can pursuit trap threats to team and wall break meaning the next time rain goes up, your SS sweeper has an even easier time winning the game. Overall an amazing Pokemon in and out of rain.
Ferrothorn is very VERY annoying outside of rain, but with rain up it's a complete nightmare for too many teams not to get a mention. Electric and Grass resistance, amazing defensive stats, solid support move pool in Stealth Rock, Spikes, Thunder Wave, and Leech Seed. The amount of switches Ferrothorn forces is quite a few meaning hazard damage racks up very fast. On top of that his ability Iron Barbs paired with a Rocky Helmet makes offensive teams cry and the amount of HP he gets back from Leftovers + Leech Seed is unreal and ensures that he is sticking around for awhile.
I would stray away from using Ferrothorn on your rain team. Last generation, it was used to make sure you wouldn't be counter swept by opposing Swift Swimmers and it could form a decent defensive side to your team with Politoed. With rain turns now limited to 8 turns, you need to make most of the time that rain is on the field. Ferrothorn is a poke that is going to absolutely kill your momentum, since it doesn't have any move to pivot out into your frail SS users while the opponent brings in a counter. Other Pokemon you shouldn't use imo:
Manaphy: Another Pokemon that absolutely kills your momentum. It is a shitty stall breaker since its recovery can be limited by sand because you lack leftovers + rely on rain for Rest use. Waste turns trying to set up rain dance, which gives the opponent breathing room to bring in a counter or an offensive check. You are also stacking weaknesses with your swift swim users.
Uxie: Deoxys-S is just so much better because it can come in any time in the middle and end game to completely turn the tables on a match, which is really really helpful vs offensive teams. Here is a match I had in the unscrupulous tiering director tour finals (which I won) that came down to Deoxys-S' fast rain dance. It was a threat that my opponent always had to keep in the back of his head because it could come in on any one of his pokemon. Uxie can't do that.
In general I believe three other requirements that every rain team should have is a Pokemon that can immediately take down Mega-Venusaur, a Thundurus-I check, and a Pokemon faster than base 115 / boosted Aqua Jet's that can take on ScarfTTar and Mega-Zard Y. Mega-Venusaur's recovery is limited by rain, but its Giga Drain hits so hard that it can recover enough health off for the next hit, if not outright OHKO'ing you at the same time. Thundurus-I can really shit on Swift Swim teams with its power electric STAB and priority Thunder Wave / Taunt. Taunt + Nasty Plot sets ensure that you can never get up Rain Dance and then just destroy you with boosted Thunderbolt's while outspeeding everything. Priority Thunder Wave is a great check to Swift Swimmers, it effectively neuters any chance you have to sweep. It even had a 25% chance of winning in the end if you are unlucky enough to get parahax'ed (and this will happen to you). Finally, Mega-Charizard Y and Scarf Tyranitar can revenge kill any Swift Swim sweeper because they change the weather to outspeed you, and then one shot you.
The two Pokemon unique to my team that I used were Kyurem-B and Tornadus-I. I really recommend both for rain teams, especially Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B can one shot Mega-Venusaur with Teravolt Ice Beam. In addition, Kyurem-B can setup on bulky water-types with Substite and hit them hard with Fusion Bolt. If you happen to be in a mirror Swift Swim matchup, Kyurem-B can almost all of them (Kabutops and Kingdra get by). Kyurem-B is also a great check to Thundurus-I without Focus Blast, which are the Taunt + Nasty Plot or Thunder Wave + Nasty Plot sets I was talking about. Tornadus can effectively remove Mega-Venusaur / other Grass-types from the game and set up priority Rain Dance at the same level as Thundurus-I's Taunt (essentially you have a 50-50 shot).
Oh yeah SD + Aqua Jet Kabutops is super handy since it is a swift swim user that beats all three of Thundurus-I, Charizard-Y, and Scarf TTar with boosted Aqua Jet. It outprioritizes Thudnurus-I's Thunder Wave in rain with Aqua Jet. It can also hit Mega-Venusaur extremely hard with a boosted Stone Edge, but it can't setup on venusaur directly.
I tried it and tbh it was crap. It's bulkier than Kabutops but Rock STAB is better than Fighting, and Politwrath doesn't have a good Fighting STAB anyway. If it had Close Combat it would be better, but all it has is Brick Break which doesn't even 2HKO Ferrothorn without a boost which is downright embarrassing. Kabutops also has better initial power, with a higher attack stat and Life Orb (if you're using Belly Drum you're probably wanting to use Sitrus Berry.)
Kabutops is certifiably insane and I don't see enough reason to replace it as a set-up rain sweeper. Belly Drum+Swift Swim for +6 Attack and +2 speed in rain is cool and all but when you're spamming STAB Waterfall in Rain there's really no need for that much of a boost; if you don't resist Kabutop's STABs, especially Water, you need even more bulk than Skarmory to have a good hope of surviving +2 Waterfall (or Stone Edge.) Kabutops also has Aqua Jet and it resists Brave Bird, and when a lot of teams depend on Talonflame to revenge kill ultra-fast threats or Thundurus to paralyze them, that's another reason to use Kabutops. Poliwrath is also slower, and while you're still super fast, base 100 scarfers can outpace you when you run Adamant, whereas the only (good) scarfers capable of RKing Kabutops are Keldeo and Lati@s (and they don't even run scarf that often.)
I tried it and tbh it was crap. It's bulkier than Kabutops but Rock STAB is better than Fighting, and Politwrath doesn't have a good Fighting STAB anyway. If it had Close Combat it would be better, but all it has is Brick Break which doesn't even 2HKO Ferrothorn without a boost which is downright embarrassing. Kabutops also has better initial power, with a higher attack stat and Life Orb (if you're using Belly Drum you're probably wanting to use Sitrus Berry.)
Kabutops is certifiably insane and I don't see enough reason to replace it as a set-up rain sweeper. Belly Drum+Swift Swim for +6 Attack and +2 speed in rain is cool and all but when you're spamming STAB Waterfall in Rain there's really no need for that much of a boost; if you don't resist Kabutop's STABs, especially Water, you need even more bulk than Skarmory to have a good hope of surviving +2 Waterfall (or Stone Edge.) Kabutops also has Aqua Jet and it resists Brave Bird, and when a lot of teams depend on Talonflame to revenge kill ultra-fast threats or Thundurus to paralyze them, that's another reason to use Kabutops. Poliwrath is also slower, and while you're still super fast, base 100 scarfers can outpace you when you run Adamant, whereas the only (good) scarfers capable of RKing Kabutops are Keldeo and Lati@s (and they don't even run scarf that often.)
Thanks for the heads up. After getting destroyed by every bisharp I came across, I was trying to fit poliwrath on my team, but I guess I will go back to keldeo and kabutops.
So with Charizard Y being common does anyone suggest running Rain Dance on defensive Politoed over one of his old moves, Perish Song maybe? it can work just like Ninetales running Sunny Day to counter weather last gen, predicting Charizard-Y switching in and using it can potentially turn the match in your favor and allow you to safely get one of your rain sweepers in, I still haven't used Rain teams except in a doubles battle this generation but I can tell that having 8 turns of rain is still good enough, enough time for Bulk Up/SD Toxicroak to set up and sweep, or just switching in a rain dance sweeper and put pressure on the opposing team.
Mega Sceptile might be a good check against opposing Rain Teams or a Rotom-W which are cockblocking some of your team members. Extra boost to its special offense when it switched into Thunder is fun as well.
